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Invisibletryptonite
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ID needed on Panaeolus
    #14366041 - 04/28/11 09:57 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

found on cow dung, spore print was black







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InvisibleIeponumos
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: tryptonite]
    #14366052 - 04/28/11 10:00 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Looks like cinctulus to me. Who knows though. It may be rarer; Pans are really hard to macroscopically identify.

Also, was it growing DIRECTLY off dung, or in grass/soil?

EDIT: Also, was there a red/caramel nipple in the center of the cap of the more flat/open Pan?


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Edited by Ieponumos (04/28/11 10:01 AM)


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OfflineBlue-FunGuy
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: tryptonite]
    #14366058 - 04/28/11 10:01 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I'm guessing Pan.papillionaceus but they look a bit different from what I'm used to seeing.Could be something else.


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InvisibleIeponumos
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: Blue-FunGuy]
    #14366060 - 04/28/11 10:02 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Blue-FunGuy said:
I'm guessing Pan.papillionaceus but they look a bit different from what I'm used to seeing.




Margin looks too smooth and the mottling of the gills looks too light imo/ime.

Pan pap gills ime.


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OfflineBlue-FunGuy
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: Ieponumos]
    #14366068 - 04/28/11 10:05 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I hear ya.My first thought was Pan.foeniisecii but they don't grow from dung.


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InvisibleIeponumos
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: Blue-FunGuy]
    #14366071 - 04/28/11 10:07 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Blue-FunGuy said:
My first thought was Pan.foeniisecii but they don't grow from dung.




This. The red/purple bruising isn't present on this one like it is on other Pans. OP still hasn't answered whether or not it was growing directly from dung or not. It doesn't look like it in the pic, but the grass could be obscuring well pulverized dung.


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Invisibletryptonite
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: Ieponumos]
    #14366122 - 04/28/11 10:25 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

it was directly from dung, but well pulverised as you said. no nipple. i'm very sure its not papilionaceus.


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Offlineelprawn
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: tryptonite]
    #14366165 - 04/28/11 10:36 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I think they're Pan. foes.


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InvisibleIeponumos
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: tryptonite]
    #14366208 - 04/28/11 10:43 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

tryptonite said:
it was directly from dung, but well pulverised as you said. no nipple. i'm very sure its not papilionaceus.




Check back that spot every couple days or so and see if you can get some more pics of them growing.


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InvisibleIeponumos
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: elprawn]
    #14366211 - 04/28/11 10:43 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

elprawn said:
I think they're Pan. foes.




That would be depressing. Foes on turds?


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Offlineelprawn
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: Ieponumos]
    #14366215 - 04/28/11 10:44 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I think the turds are incidental. I think they're growing from the grass.


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Invisiblecreationdivine
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: elprawn]
    #14366216 - 04/28/11 10:45 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I'm gonna agree with elprawn here. The stipe doesn't look the right color/texture to me to be cinctulus. :shrug:


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InvisibleThe Thinker

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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: Ieponumos]
    #14366243 - 04/28/11 10:52 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

cinctulus and foenisecii don't grow on cow poop.

these look like P. foenisecii


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InvisibleByrain


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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: tryptonite]
    #14366310 - 04/28/11 11:06 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

tryptonite said:
spore print was black




Can you post a picture of it?

I'd agree with the others that they are P. foenisecii.


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InvisibleIeponumos
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: The Thinker]
    #14366428 - 04/28/11 11:31 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Thinker said:
cinctulus doesn't grow on cow poop.




I beg to differ. I think both weiliiii and dickenz have found P. cinctulus growing on cow poop.


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OfflineBlue-FunGuy
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: Ieponumos]
    #14366469 - 04/28/11 11:39 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

They will ocasionally fruit from cow dung but its not common.


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InvisibleIeponumos
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: Blue-FunGuy]
    #14366482 - 04/28/11 11:41 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Hey Tryptonite, answer me this:

How do they smell? Farinaceous or funky?


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InvisibleThe Thinker

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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: Ieponumos]
    #14366689 - 04/28/11 12:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

ah, they can grow on cow manure according to "mjshroomer" who says about 1 in 1000 fields may have a single or few specimens. can anyone link me to pictures?


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InvisibleIeponumos
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: The Thinker]
    #14366712 - 04/28/11 12:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Thinker said:
ah, they can grow on cow manure according to "mjshroomer" who says about 1 in 1000 fields may have a single or few specimens. can anyone link me to pictures?




I'm still looking for weiliiii's (you might be able to ask him on MO, he changed his user name, but he's still easy to contact), but here's dickenz's account:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14334018#14334018


Quote:

dickenz07 said:

I am assuming youre talking about cinctulus...
I find em in a pasture thats pretty much a hillside...that slopes down to flatland that the cows tend to hang out and there is about 6 inches of doo doo in most places..and thick grass/weeds..stays wet and partly shaded by the trees nearby...usually growing from the deeper thicker weeds and grass








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InvisibleIeponumos
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: The Thinker]
    #14366903 - 04/28/11 01:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Thinker said:
ah, they can grow on cow manure according to "mjshroomer" who says about 1 in 1000 fields may have a single or few specimens. can anyone link me to pictures?




The one from weilii may have been my imagination. I can't find anything from him. I can say I want to go hunting with Dickenz one of these days. Dude has some interesting finds.


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InvisibleThe Thinker

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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: Ieponumos]
    #14368145 - 04/28/11 04:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

word looks like theres a lot of hay in there which is probably why they're there. horse manure piles usually have more shavings in them because of the bedding - maybe why they're more common on horse poo/shavings is because it is more common. also i think cows digest food better than horses do meaning less hay/straw in their shit


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Offlineknarkkorven
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: The Thinker]
    #14368236 - 04/28/11 05:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The first time I found p. cinctulus it was on a big pile of cow dung. Look at my evidence :smile: So yes, it grows on cow dung. But more often on horse dung.

But I think tryptonite's mushrooms are foes. Compare the spore print with something that is really black, like a marker pen or coal and you will probably see that your print is very dark brown, not black.



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InvisibleIeponumos
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: The Thinker]
    #14368408 - 04/28/11 05:54 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Thinker said:
word looks like theres a lot of hay in there which is probably why they're there. horse manure piles usually have more shavings in them because of the bedding - maybe why they're more common on horse poo/shavings is because it is more common. also i think cows digest food better than horses do meaning less hay/straw in their shit




Cows do indeed digest their cellulose better. This is easy to confirm as soon as one steps into a nice and fresh trail of cow shit. It always confused me why the walk while they shit. You can see the trails as they were walk-shitting.


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OfflineKaiser
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: Ieponumos]
    #14368827 - 04/28/11 07:04 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The watery stem and brown gills make it look like Panaeolina foenisecii.
If it was growing on dung and the spore print was black I would say cinctulus, or maybe even olivaceus.


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InvisibleIeponumos
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: Kaiser]
    #14368844 - 04/28/11 07:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Kaiser said:
The watery stem and brown gills make it look like Panaeolina foenisecii.
If it was growing on dung and the spore print was black I would say cinctulus, or maybe even olivaceus.




When I saw the pileus on them I got the same impression you did. But the lack of a pruinose stem and the watery light brown bruising makes me think foe.

One more deciding factor would be scent.

Subbs and olivaceus (or whatever those pans are) smell farinaceous but foes smell far different, dare I even say strange.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: Ieponumos]
    #14369648 - 04/28/11 09:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Ieponumos said:
I'm still looking for weiliiii's (you might be able to ask him on MO, he changed his user name, but he's still easy to contact), but here's dickenz's account:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14334018#14334018





That is horse manure, not cow manure.


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InvisibleIeponumos
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #14369675 - 04/28/11 09:26 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

Ieponumos said:
I'm still looking for weiliiii's (you might be able to ask him on MO, he changed his user name, but he's still easy to contact), but here's dickenz's account:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14334018#14334018





That is horse manure, not cow manure.




It does look like there is a lot of straw in the poo, but I dunno. Dickenz said cows like to lay there. The poo in that second pic does remind me of some well dried cow poo I've seen though. The consistency is real fine. I think I could go out and get some pics of cow patties that have that look to them.


That 4th pic looks like grass which has died back and then been stepped on, making that sort of moisture tapping mat of rotting material saprobes like Pans love so much.


Just :2cents:


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Edited by Ieponumos (04/28/11 09:33 PM)


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Offlineelprawn
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: Ieponumos]
    #14371295 - 04/29/11 05:51 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

What about dog manure?


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InvisibleIeponumos
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: elprawn]
    #14371405 - 04/29/11 06:57 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

elprawn said:
What about dog manure?




:lolsy:

I never thought of that! Could be ...


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Invisibletryptonite
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: elprawn]
    #14374545 - 04/29/11 08:21 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Ieponumos said:
Hey Tryptonite, answer me this:

How do they smell? Farinaceous or funky?




well not funky, so i would say farinaceous.

Quote:

elprawn said:
I think the turds are incidental. I think they're growing from the grass.




no the grass is growing through the dung, the mushies were on the actual patty

any chance this might be P. fimicola? its known to grow in my area


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Offlinemycot
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: tryptonite]
    #14398016 - 05/04/11 01:47 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Just for the record I have found heaps of Pan Subbs on cow dung. More so than on any other substrate and this consistantly over a five year period. And yes I do have pics if proof is needed.


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InvisibleIeponumos
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: mycot]
    #14398518 - 05/04/11 06:26 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

tryptonite said:
Quote:

Ieponumos said:
Hey Tryptonite, answer me this:

How do they smell? Farinaceous or funky?




well not funky, so i would say farinaceous.

Quote:

elprawn said:
I think the turds are incidental. I think they're growing from the grass.




no the grass is growing through the dung, the mushies were on the actual patty

any chance this might be P. fimicola? its known to grow in my area




If you've got a sceop, looking at the arrangement/position of basidia and cystidia on the gill face would give you a better idea of the difference between subbs and fimicola.

Quote:

mycot said:
Just for the record I have found heaps of Pan Subbs on cow dung. More so than on any other substrate and this consistantly over a five year period. And yes I do have pics if proof is needed.




Hell yeah, man. The more evidence, the better!!! Pics pl0x


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Offlinemycot
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: Ieponumos]
    #14403074 - 05/05/11 12:07 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

mycot said:
Just for the record I have found heaps of Pan Subbs on cow dung. More so than on any other substrate and this consistantly over a five year period. And yes I do have pics if proof is needed.




Hell yeah, man. The more evidence, the better!!! Pics pl0x



OK here are some pics, all growing on 100% bovine cowpoo.
I've also found lawn subbs and subbs growing from rotting grass clippings but the ones growing from cowpoo have been much meatier getting as big as any I've seen on this board.



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Invisibletryptonite
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: mycot]
    #14433347 - 05/11/11 04:09 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

best Australian subb photos I've ever seen. absolutely beatiful!

what state/area do you live? and what months do you find them? pan subb hunting in australia is a new frontier I'm still trying to work out how to find them in my area.

do you find all your subbalts in cow pastures? have you ever checked horse pastures, stable shavings or compost piles?

so far I've checked a horse pasture a forest trail where cows get moved through. only checked in fall though, nothing so far


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Invisibletryptonite
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: tryptonite]
    #14433361 - 05/11/11 04:18 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

had to nominate this for pic of the month



so frigging sweet!  :bow:

this photo should be in a field guide... if subbalteatus was even listed in any Australian field guide - which it's not


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OfflineBlue-FunGuy
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: tryptonite]
    #14434018 - 05/11/11 09:23 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

In my neck of the woods they start in spring and will fruit through summer.


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Offlinemycot
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Re: ID needed on Panaeolus [Re: tryptonite]
    #14438815 - 05/12/11 06:22 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

tryptonite said:
best Australian subb photos I've ever seen. absolutely beatiful!

what state/area do you live? and what months do you find them? pan subb hunting in australia is a new frontier I'm still trying to work out how to find them in my area.

do you find all your subbalts in cow pastures? have you ever checked horse pastures, stable shavings or compost piles?

so far I've checked a horse pasture a forest trail where cows get moved through. only checked in fall though, nothing so far



Thanks Tryptonite. I also beleive that I have the best aussie subb pics.
I'm in Northeast NSW and have found that they fruit most prolifically from late spring through summer although theres the odd find at other times of the year.
I've found the vast majority of my subbs in cow pastures, often under trees or close to tree-lines where they are to some extent sheltered from drying winds.
I haven't checked horse pastures much but that substrate is not very plentiful where I am, whereas the cowpoo is prolific. I do know of very good finds of subbs on horse-poo in Queensland.
And subbs love rain fruiting most prolifically after good rains, the type of weather in which blue-meanies also occur.
Hope this helps with future subb hunts.:smile:


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