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JT


Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 7,027
Loc: athens
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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You're arguing that taking more than a third of what someone makes is not enough dude. Come on.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Getting better? I don't fucking think so [Re: JT]
#14393239 - 05/03/11 07:37 AM (13 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
JT said: You're arguing that taking more than a third of what someone makes is not enough dude. Come on.
Actually they already take more than half of the last dollar for top earners in NY. 35% or 38% is just federal income tax. Then there is FICA, which varies if you go over a certain amount but is an additional 15% up to that amount and in NY the top tax rate is almost 8%. Then there's sales taxes, property taxes, gas taxes, utility taxes. It never fucking ends.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Please show me some evidence, just like I've shown graphical evidence of the opposite.
http://www.american.com/archive/2007/november-december-magazine-contents/guess-who-really-pays-the-taxes
FAIL. Refuted here.
Quote:
zappaisgod said: So wait, are you going to tell me that you don't believe people alter their investment and work activity in response to different tax structures?
People will ALWAYS modify their behavior to avoid taxes, not just when their tax rate goes above 35%.
Yes, they do. When the rates go up they have less incentive to work. Why try when your last dollar is taxed into oblivion?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: Getting better? I don't fucking think so [Re: zappaisgod]
#14396333 - 05/03/11 07:39 PM (13 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: When the rates go up they have less incentive to work. Why try when your last dollar is taxed into oblivion?
Extra money taxed at 40% beats no extra money.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: When the rates go up they have less incentive to work. Why try when your last dollar is taxed into oblivion?
Extra money taxed at 40% beats no extra money.
But it isn't. Right now my last dollar is taxed at around 60%. RIGHT NOW! 38 plus 15 plus 8
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Re: Getting better? I don't fucking think so [Re: zappaisgod]
#14399433 - 05/04/11 11:14 AM (13 years, 18 days ago) |
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> Right now my last dollar is taxed at around 60%. RIGHT NOW! 38 plus 15 plus 8
Can you imagine the bitching and moaning that would come from the liberals if they lost $1800 out of their $3000 monthly paycheck, giving them a take home of only $1200?
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: Getting better? I don't fucking think so [Re: zappaisgod]
#14401796 - 05/04/11 08:06 PM (13 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: When the rates go up they have less incentive to work. Why try when your last dollar is taxed into oblivion?
Extra money taxed at 40% beats no extra money.
But it isn't. Right now my last dollar is taxed at around 60%. RIGHT NOW! 38 plus 15 plus 8
Don't you hate dem IRS terrorists?
Using violence and threats of violence to make you pay for their political ends?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: Getting better? I don't fucking think so [Re: Seuss]
#14401908 - 05/04/11 08:29 PM (13 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: Can you imagine the bitching and moaning that would come from the liberals if they lost $1800 out of their $3000 monthly paycheck, giving them a take home of only $1200?
Not sure what you mean. The only people bitching and moaning about high taxes are conservatives. Liberals understand that you need to pay taxes to fund education, defense, healthcare, freeways...
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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JT


Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 7,027
Loc: athens
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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And we could get it all done for less if the government managed our money better. There's a time when you need to say enough is enough. Can't just write them a blank check and say take whatever you need.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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> Liberals understand that you need to pay taxes to fund education, defense, healthcare, freeways...
The conservatives aren't bitching about high taxes for defense or freeways... handouts for entitlements such as education and healthcare are another matter. I probably should have used the word 'poor' rather than 'liberal' as it better reflects the point I was making; it doesn't matter what political philosophy you follow, if they take 60% of your income, you are probably going to bitch about it.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Seuss said: Can you imagine the bitching and moaning that would come from the liberals if they lost $1800 out of their $3000 monthly paycheck, giving them a take home of only $1200?
Not sure what you mean. The only people bitching and moaning about high taxes are conservatives. Liberals understand that you need to pay taxes to fund education, defense, healthcare, freeways...
The people bitching and moaning about high taxes are the people who are sick of paying them while bums skate free.
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dshow
Nomad



Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 5,255
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: Getting better? I don't fucking think so [Re: zappaisgod]
#14405021 - 05/05/11 12:18 PM (13 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
Not sure what you mean. The only people bitching and moaning about high taxes are conservatives. Liberals understand that you need to pay taxes to fund education, defense, healthcare, freeways...
You need taxes to pay for other people's healthcare??? I don't quite follow you here.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Re: Getting better? I don't fucking think so [Re: dshow]
#14405690 - 05/05/11 02:50 PM (13 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
dshow said:
Quote:
Not sure what you mean. The only people bitching and moaning about high taxes are conservatives. Liberals understand that you need to pay taxes to fund education, defense, healthcare, freeways...
You need taxes to pay for other people's healthcare??? I don't quite follow you here.
Falcon91Wolvrn03 made that claim, not zappaisgod.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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dshow
Nomad



Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 5,255
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: Getting better? I don't fucking think so [Re: Seuss]
#14406695 - 05/05/11 06:34 PM (13 years, 17 days ago) |
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Yea i know. Oh did i make it look the other way? my bad.
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collie man
Jai guru deva om



Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 3,665
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Re: Getting better? I don't fucking think so [Re: dshow]
#14408429 - 05/06/11 01:50 AM (13 years, 16 days ago) |
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i think it all stems from how lazy America has gotten. Every one wants everything, but no one wants to work for it.
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dshow
Nomad



Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 5,255
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: Getting better? I don't fucking think so [Re: collie man]
#14408490 - 05/06/11 02:15 AM (13 years, 16 days ago) |
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Well yea obvious. I agree.
I just consider it pathetic that some people still believe there should be large safety nets. It doesn't work. It is a failed idea. just like government jobs. You cant support so many with the public diminishing .
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Re: Getting better? I don't fucking think so [Re: collie man]
#14408635 - 05/06/11 05:08 AM (13 years, 16 days ago) |
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> i think it all stems from how lazy America has gotten. Every one wants everything, but no one wants to work for it.
You are half right... the younger generations have been taught by their baby boomer parents that they are oh so special, and that they deserve everything that they want, and that they should get it all without having to work for any of it.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Therian
Stranger

Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 684
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Re: Getting better? I don't fucking think so [Re: Seuss]
#14409064 - 05/06/11 08:36 AM (13 years, 16 days ago) |
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Strange, I agree with Zappa as well as RR on this one. There is no doubt in any ones mind that the actual unemployment numbers are far higher than what is currently stated. You think it is bad where you reside, try our state where many counties have a stated, not actual unemployment rate of 30-40%. RR was correct in when he mentioned all the engineers that work at walmart. I can count at least 8 or 9 people off the top of my head that have an bachelors degree at the very least, and are working for minimum wage at grocery stores. I also know of many with grad degrees that consider themselves lucky that they are making 35-40 grand max a year. People from around the nation just can't seem to wrap their minds around what it is like for many when there are just fucking zero opportunities.
I can also name many that were prior business owners each hiring many employees, and they too had to sell all their business assets at a loss and take a job at walmart.
Another statistic which is never quoted, yet I believe the terminology currently used is something along the lines of employee reallocation, meaning when one made a livable wage, lost their job then took another at a place of employment making perhaps half of what their prior salary was. Yes they are employed but they are on the verge of bankruptcy, have no benefits, no healthcare, etc. All these people WANT to work, they don't want handouts, they spent years in college spending tens of thousands of dollars to get their education, and I can guarantee you the last thing they want to do now is sit on their asses collecting welfare. They didn't sacrifice for years, proactively gaining employable skills at great personal cost so they could sit around prostrate.
Another greatly skewed statistic thrown about by the gov. is the consumer price index, it's a complete joke. It's ridiculous that two of the main expenditures of the avg. american, food and energy costs are not calculated in the CPI. to gauge inflation rates. I just paid $4.31 a gallon for regular unleaded. For some reason where the unemployment rates are the highest, so are the costs for energy. It may not seem like much but just the cost of gas has a major impact on the personal finances of many here. Not only are they down, but they're getting kicked in the teeth while they are down. The gov. doesn't seem to think that energy costs seem to matter when calculating the CPI. I would love to be able to use their "fuzzy logic" when calculating statistics. Of course both politicians, and the stock market love the artificially low inflation rates, the people actually paying the real prices, not so much.
Hey everyone unemployed numbers are actually extremely low, just don't calculate the people that are not currently working. The consensus states that people absolutely love extended stays in the hospital, that is once you discount both the pain and suffering, as well as the financial burden.
The latest stats concluded that in the past few years the average Americans net worth has decreased by 25%, that alone should prove to people that things are not getting better, at least not for the average american. Of course corporate profits are up.
As for how are the politicians solving the issue? Well, our prior governor was completely worthless, as a matter of fact when leaving she stated that we had just experienced a "decade from hell", and this from a woman claiming she would increase jobs and prosperity in our state. So now we have a new worthless jackass in office, this time a repub. He ran on the typical repub. platform that the problem is not that Americans are being taxed too little, but spending is too great. He also did the obligatory I will bring prosperity to this state, the great turnaround bs., etc.
So what is this economic geniuses plan? First he cut business taxes by 1.8 billion dollars. But how will he recoup this lost revenue you may ask? Easy you just INCREASE TAXES on retirees by 1.8 billion. The retirees get to pay for the tax breaks given to large corporations. Sounds fair to me, if you are a huge corporation that could never possibly afford to pay taxes, not so much if you are a retiree living on a fixed income. Now the gov. has recently stated that he would like to welcome more immigrants to our state. Pure fucking genius! In a state with the highest unemployment rates, tens of thousands unable to find work, just bring in more immigrants. I'm sure that will solve the problem.
In essence what our governor has stated is that if you can't afford to send your business to mexico, fear not, we will bring it to you. We will have the elderly pay for your taxes, and bring in low cost immigrant labor, see people of Michigan, I'm helping you out. More workers, competing for what extremely few jobs we have. On top of that we get to pay for the associated costs with an increase in the immigrant population, namely higher rates of crime, as well as a new huge burden on the educational system when the immigrants bring in their non English speaking offspring to be schooled. Don't worry he also made cuts to the educational budget, more pure genius.
As much as I hated the last dem. governor the repubs seem to have a penchant for shooting people in the kneecaps, then bitching later on that everyone is limping. I will agree with Zappa though that it's time to leave this shithole of a state on a consistent downward spiral. The only problem being that many that would like to do so have a financial liability on their houses that exceeds it's worth. They are financial prisoners to their own property, and it is not possible to leave.
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plustax
Stranger
Registered: 02/21/10
Posts: 396
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
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Re: Getting better? I don't fucking think so [Re: Therian]
#14415697 - 05/07/11 03:08 PM (13 years, 15 days ago) |
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destroy the state that way we dont have to worry about it anymore
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 8 months, 8 days
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Re: Getting better? I don't fucking think so [Re: Therian]
#14433075 - 05/11/11 01:39 AM (13 years, 11 days ago) |
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Good post, Therian.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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