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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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The Chirality of Life 2
#14363606 - 04/27/11 09:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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So think about this.
If you take something like a spring, say a slinky or the spring in a click-pen, and you hold it up and follow the spiral, it will have a "handedness". It will either turn clockwise or counter-clockwise (right handed or left handed).
The way it coils is called its chirality from the Greek Chiros meaning hand. You can't change the spring's chirality. It's an intrinsic property... part of it's basic construction. It's the same if you turn it up-side-down or look at it from another angle. It's why you can't shake your right hand with someone's left hand. But if you put the spring in front of a mirror and follow the coil in the mirror image, you'll find it's chirality reversed.
Now molecules are just a bunch of atoms stuck together. Like our spring, the molecules of some substances are stuck together in the form of a spiral, and like the spring, those molecules have chirality.
If you take a sample of something like concrete, glass, steel, rocks, and look closely, you'll find it to be composed of many different types of molecules and their chirality will be evenly distributed... 50% will be right-handed molecules and 50% will be left-handed. And in the case of concrete or glass, it doesn't matter. Right handed concrete molecules are just as good as left handed ones.
However, this is not so for biologically active substances. Many drug molecules consist of of both chiralities, and in some, only the right or left chiral is biologically active. Strangely, the other 50% of the pill goes right through you. In other cases, the right-hand molecule cures a disease but the left-hand molecule is a deadly poison. Now this is where things get weird. If you look at a living thing, ALL the amino acids and proteins of which it's made have left-handed chirality. Even a huge protein like insulin composed of over 700 atoms in three chains has left-handed chirality. If it were right-handed, it would be completely inert. Right chiral insulin doesn't exist in nature.
DNA is chiral too. A single wrong-handed monomer out of billions of base pairs in human DNA would render it useless.
This is true of the smallest bacteria to the largest whale. It's true of wood, corn, and spaghetti. Even my cat is made of left-handed proteins.
By the way, there's no particular reason why life has to be left-chiral. On some other planet, life could just as likely have evolved with right-chirality, but if we ate the animals there, we'd be unable to use their proteins for nourishment.
Weird eh? What do you make of that?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Cannashroom
Smoke two Joints



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Re: The Chirality of Life [Re: Diploid]
#14363703 - 04/27/11 09:25 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well DNA bases actually don't have a R/L handedness like amino acids (they have multiple chiral centres). The helix as a whole is right handed, but under certain modifications to DNA can become left handed. And a single wrong base is quickly excised and replaced by repair machinery, each cell takes about 10 000 hits to its genome each day it has to repair.
The handedness of amino acids could have resulted from life forming on the surface of minerals/clays. Minerals also hold chirality, and may have also been important to the start of life by adsorbing monomer units (selecting for chirality, since it is also chiral) and catalyzing their polymerization.
Alternatively, the mineral surfaces could have been catalyzing the formation of monomers, creating a excess of a certain chirality.
And once the system was set up, it would start to exclude the other handedness because it wouldn't work. And since life was then going to be creating most of the amino acids de novo they all become L and it just dominates the earth.
-------------------- "A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security." Albert Einstein
Edited by Cannashroom (04/27/11 09:26 PM)
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



Registered: 08/09/07
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Re: The Chirality of Life [Re: Diploid]
#14364294 - 04/27/11 10:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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thats crazy
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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Re: The Chirality of Life [Re: g00ru]
#14365282 - 04/28/11 05:39 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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over simplified. right chiral protein and dna could still be partly digested by acid and the amino acids and nucleotides that emerge may be absorbed and re-used, but if these also were inverted we could not use them: enzymes have evolved matching specific shapes. limiting but efficient
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
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Who wants to join me in a multi-billion dollar venture? Undigestible right chiral pizza, beer, potato chips and cola for super weight loss.
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Cannashroom
Smoke two Joints



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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Who wants to join me in a multi-billion dollar venture? Undigestible right chiral pizza, beer, potato chips and cola for super weight loss. 
Well, they actually are getting closer to this than you may think. Many potato chips now contain fake fats. Like synthetic sugars taste very sweet but cannot be digested, these lipids taste very fatty/savory and cannot be digested.
-------------------- "A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security." Albert Einstein
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



Registered: 08/09/07
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that's fucked up, we don't need more empty calories not being digested, that just encourages rampant desire but gives you no nutrients in return. Instead people need to return to cooking their own shit so you get a sense of what is wholesome and good for you.
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
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Re: The Chirality of Life [Re: g00ru]
#14366641 - 04/28/11 12:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Instead people need to return to cooking their own shit...
And drinking their own urine? Very ayurvedic!
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
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hmmm yeah i don't drink my own urine that's probably not good for you unless you really know what you're doing. that's some hardcore alchemy, like swallowing ur own jizz
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Cannashroom
Smoke two Joints



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Re: The Chirality of Life [Re: g00ru]
#14368012 - 04/28/11 04:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yea I think it is all fucking stupid. I agree people need to learn how to cook real food and not eat processed crap.
What I find hilarious is people who pay more for individually packaged 100 calorie snacks and shit. You're paying more for less food! Just learn to control yourself and buy in bulk!
-------------------- "A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security." Albert Einstein
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
Instead people need to return to cooking their own shit...
And drinking their own urine? Very ayurvedic!
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: The Chirality of Life [Re: Diploid]
#14368148 - 04/28/11 04:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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In the beginning was the symmetry.
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jivJaN
yes


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Re: The Chirality of Life [Re: Diploid]
#14368461 - 04/28/11 06:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm left handed.
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--------------------- All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional. They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively. I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal. If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..
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4896744
Small Town Girl


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Re: The Chirality of Life [Re: g00ru]
#14368560 - 04/28/11 06:18 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
guruu said: that's fucked up, we don't need more empty calories not being digested, that just encourages rampant desire but gives you no nutrients in return. Instead people need to return to cooking their own shit so you get a sense of what is wholesome and good for you.
Why shouldn't I eat food that is made to give little nutrients? I enjoy eating good food, and the only problem is that I don't like the weight gain associated with it. If I can remove the negative side-effect, why no indulge?
-------------------- Live your Life!
Edited by iThink (04/28/11 06:19 PM)
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Re: The Chirality of Life [Re: 4896744]
#14368602 - 04/28/11 06:25 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Because hedonism is a sin.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



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Re: The Chirality of Life [Re: Poid]
#14368653 - 04/28/11 06:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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because desire leads to suffering and clouds the mind. I have desires also but i try not to indulge the lame ones, because i have dreams and indulging the lame desires is like putting out the fire that's gonna propel you towards greatness. See: Mahatma Gandhi.
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




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Re: The Chirality of Life [Re: g00ru]
#14368675 - 04/28/11 06:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
guruu said: because desire leads to suffering and clouds the mind.
It can also lead to pleasure. 
Quote:
guruu said: I have desires also but i try not to indulge the lame ones, because i have dreams and indulging the lame desires is like putting out the fire that's gonna propel you towards greatness. See: Mahatma Gandhi.
Why not indulge in all of your desires?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



Registered: 08/09/07
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Re: The Chirality of Life [Re: Poid]
#14368689 - 04/28/11 06:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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because then you'd just be a fat homer simpson type person. desires can indeed lead to pleasure but you can't just be a pleasure whore, otherwise you'll never get what you truly want deep down inside.
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
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Re: The Chirality of Life [Re: g00ru]
#14368698 - 04/28/11 06:42 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
guruu said: because then you'd just be a fat homer simpson type person.
Not necessarily.
Quote:
guruu said: desires can indeed lead to pleasure but you can't just be a pleasure whore, otherwise you'll never get what you truly want deep down inside.
Why do you think everybody wants something "deep down inside"?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Chirality of Life [Re: g00ru]
#14368716 - 04/28/11 06:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
I have desires also but i try not to indulge the lame ones
Please list the lame and unlame desires.
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