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Invisibledwpineal
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: HerbalJunkie]
    #14372088 - 04/29/11 11:01 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Man, I feel late getting to this thread 4 pages in (on my browser/settings...)

But anyway wanted to respond and throw in a few more ideas into the mix.

Joe, hope you're well my brother, love the way you make me examine my own experiences and pin things down better - much appreciated.

I saw where you mentioned that the realizations on the DNA structure was more of an anomaly than a rule. Part of that has to do with the repression of psychedelics in our society. Many respectable people may have come to many important and world changing ideas/inventions/solutions via psychedelics, but do not have the courage (or recklessness) to admit how the ideas came about and developed. It's hard for people in academia and at the upper levels of science to expose themselves for fear of career suicide.

A great example of LSD as a problem-solving psychedelic is Kary Mullis' vision of PCR replication techniques. Those have completely revolutionized the way we can study diseases and so much more. He came out publicly and said in his book, Dancing in the Mind Fields (AWESOME BOOK!!! Highly recommended);

Quote:

Use of LSD

Mullis details his experiences synthesizing and testing various psychedelic amphetamines and a difficult trip on DET in his autobiography. In a Q&A interview published in the September, 1994, issue of California Monthly, Mullis said, "Back in the 1960s and early '70s I took plenty of LSD. A lot of people were doing that in Berkeley back then. And I found it to be a mind-opening experience. It was certainly much more important than any courses I ever took."[26] During a symposium held for centenarian Albert Hofmann, "Hofmann revealed that he was told by Nobel-prize-winning chemist Kary Mullis that LSD had helped him develop the polymerase chain reaction that helps amplify specific DNA sequences."[27] Replying to his own postulate during an interview for BBC's Psychedelic Science documentary, "What if I had not taken LSD ever; would I have still invented PCR?" He replied, "I don't know. I doubt it. I seriously doubt it."[28]

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/kary-mullis#ixzz1KvmVNYjZ





However, because of his stance, they would not give him the Nobel Prize for many years. He was told to keep quiet about LSD, and his nomination would come. But he refused and eventually his discovery's importance loomed so large, that it could no longer be ignored, but there was a lot of controversy.

So this illustrates the attitude of the mainstream - if your ideas come from unorthodox means, keep them to yourself. This may lead to people thinking that the benefits of psychedelics are intangible.

However prior to the illegalization of psychedelics (pre-1966) there was a different view and research actually was underway to learn how to get the most benefits from these substances. See how far we've fallen backwards in 50 years? A lot of this knowledge is lost, or occluded.

There is actually an entire book called LSD The Problem Solving Psychedelic, that goes into specific experiments with follow up, and has some really great details. You can read the full book online; http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/lsd/stafford.htm

Here is data on another set of experiments done in 1966 and interrupted by the criminalization of psychedelics in October of that year.
For the full info go here;
http://www.skeptically.org/recres/id2.html

Some quotes
Quote:

Results: Psychometric Data

    Test-retest scores on some of the measures used showed dramatic changes from normal to psychedelic-session conditions. Most apparent were enhanced abilities to recognize patterns, to minimize and isolate visual distractions, and to maintain visual memory in spite of confusing changes of form and color. Specific tests used included the Purdue Creativity, the Miller Object Visualization, and the Witkin Embedded Figures. This last test has been reported to be stable under a variety of experimental interventions including stress, training, sensory isolation, hypnosis, and the influence of a variety of drugs (Witkin et al., 1962). With these twenty-seven subjects, enhancement was consistent (p<.01), and in some cases improvements were as great as 200 per cent. (For a fuller description of the psychometric evaluation, see Harman et al., 1966.) 




Quote:

Long-term Results

    The practical value of obtained solutions is a check against subjective reports of accomplishment that might be attributable to temporary euphoria. The nature of these solutions varied; they included: (1) a new approach to the design of a vibratory microtome, (2) a commercial building design, accepted by the client, (3) space probe experiments devised to measure solar properties, (4) design of a linear electron accelerator beam-steering device, (5) engineering improvement to a magnetic tape recorder, (6) a chair design, modeled and accepted by the manufacturer, (7) a letterhead design, approved by the customer, (8) a mathematical theorem regarding NOR-gate circuits, (9) completion of a furniture-line design, (10) a new conceptual model of a photon, which was found useful, and (11) design of a private dwelling, approved by the client.
    Table 3 outlines the initial results of attempting to apply the solutions generated in the experimental sessions back into the industrial and academic settings of the subjects. (These data were obtained by questionnaire and follow-up interview six to eight weeks after the session.) A quote for a follow-up report written several months after the session is typical of the relative usefulness and validity of the session-day solutions: "In the area of ionospheric source location and layer tilt analysis, I was able in the weeks following the session to build on the ideas generated to the extent of working out the mathematics of the schemes proposed, and of making them more definite. The steps made in the session were the correct ones to start with . . . the ideas considered and developed in the session appear as important steps, and the period of the session as the single most productive period of work on this problem I have had in the several months either preceding or following the session."





Quote:

TABLE 3

OUTCOME OF PROBLEMS ATTEMPTED IN EXPERIMENTAL SESSION
ONE MONTH AFTER SESSION DATE

new avenues for investigation opened....................20

working model completed..................................2

developmental model to test solution authorized..........1

solution accepted for construction or production.........6

partial solution obtained being developed further or being applied............10

no further activity since session.......................1

no solution obtained....................................4

total number of problems attempted*.....................44

* Many subjects attempted more than one problem during the session.




And apparently they gave instructions to the people taking the psychedelics, here is an excerpt, maybe someone here will find it useful...

Quote:

Subjects were told that they would experience little or no difficulties with distractions such as visions, involvement with personal emotional states, and so on. The instructions emphasized that the experience could be directed as desired. Direct suggestions were made to encourage mental flexibility during the session. An excerpt from those instructions is quoted below:


    Some suggestions on approaches:


    Try identifying with the central person, object, or process in the problem. See how the problem looks from this vantage point.


    Try asking to "see" the solution, to visualize how various parts might work together, to see how a certain situation will work out in future, etc.


    You will find it is possible to scan a large number of possible solutions, ideas, data from the memory etc., much more rapidly than usual. The "right" solution will often appear along with a sort of intuitive "knowing" that it is the answer sought. You will also find that you can hold in conscious awareness a number of ideas or pieces of data processes simultaneously, to an uncommon extent.


    You will find it is possible to "step" back from the problem and see it in new perspective, in more basic terms; to abandon previously tried approaches and start afresh (since there is much less of yourself invested in these earlier trials).


    Above all, don't be timid in the ambitiousness with which you ask questions. If you want to see the completed solution in a three-dimensional image, or to project yourself forward in time, or view some microscopic physical process, or view something not visible to your physical eyes, or re-experience some event out of the past, by all means ask. Don't let your questions be limited by your notion of what can and what cannot happen.







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Offlinei like cow poo
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: HerbalJunkie]
    #14372150 - 04/29/11 11:15 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

HerbalJunkie said:
Well.. I did spend the last 5 years of my life in the psychedelic dimension, I did take a lot of psychedelics, and if one truly has his head on his shoulders and really did care for going into detail into psychedelics... One easily can realise that it's not all flower power.

I mean seriously... I experienced blissful moments on psychedelics, nothing I could ever experience on another non-psychedelic drug or sober state of mind.. but truthfully, i cannot lie to myself..

What did Psychedelics show me when I went down the rabbit hole? It showed me I'm living in a big fat lie, it showed me how reality is fucked, and how much life is a dark comedy. How much the system is fucking us in our ass every second of our lives, and how blinded we are to think microbes like us have understood a single shit of what's really going on..

Yes, that's what I got when travelling in the psychedelic dimension.. When seeking for answer and all that shit..

I'd rather use psychedelics for a good ride, experience, and show rather than trying to find a clue of what the fuck is going on.. Cos really, you won't and even if you find what you think is the clue, it's not solid, you can't swear your head on it.

I've met 'God', seen ufos, had visions of the all seeing eye and all sorts of crazy visions that blew my crainium off, yet who tells me it's not all fruit of my imagination, which it is, except for this half-assed 'real' reality.

Don't get me wrong, I love psychedelics and they're my drug of choice. I have a kick ass ride on them. and that's all i'm seeking nowadays..

I did long term usage of really good Lysergic Acid. In the long run, it only made me depressed, because indeed it showed me what's around me.. illusions.. a big fat lie where everyone thinks that they know what's going on. hah! that kind of makes me the delusional idiot.

Heck, if anything could come close to psychedelics improvind your life.. is basically the sudden change of perspective and frequency through the experience.. change tends to be beneficial when stuck in a loop. But

I believe that's all there is to it, maybe a tad bit more which my human brain cannot comprehend.




The fact that we're living in an illusion is neither a "good" or "bad" thing. Your brain just chose to view it in a negative way. The world's too complicated for us to comprehend, oh well I might as well be happy living in this "mindfuck" know as life:rofl:
Psychedlics can bring out depressive tendencies in people:frown:
It's best to only trip when you are in a positive part of your life IMO:sunny:


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Invisiblet23

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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip *DELETED* [Re: i like cow poo]
    #14372499 - 04/29/11 12:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Post deleted by t23

Reason for deletion: .



Edited by t23 (04/29/11 12:58 PM)


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Invisiblebigmike7104
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: i like cow poo]
    #14372591 - 04/29/11 01:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

A great example of LSD as a problem-solving psychedelic is Kary Mullis' vision of PCR replication techniques. Those have completely revolutionized the way we can study diseases and so much more. He came out publicly and said in his book, Dancing in the Mind Fields (AWESOME BOOK!!! Highly recommended)




that makes sense to me. psychedelics make you look at things differently in ways you might have not otherwise. but i don't think it was 100 percent the acid in that many scientists in his position and on acid would probably still have not figured it out.

to say there's no healing power from psychedelics goes against science since the 60's from neuroscientists, psychologists, and biochemists who don't exclusively study psychedelics.

also i think it's more likely to help when combined with therapy like with many studies, of course even then it doesn't help everyone


--------------------
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind
Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must
Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines


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Offlinek00laid
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: t23]
    #14372603 - 04/29/11 01:16 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

t23 said:


It's whatever way your brain chooses to see it.

The trick is controlling your brain to see it either way.




ive only been able to make it spin the other way once for me :[

a few years ago.

idk why i cant get it to go anymore.


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AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!


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Invisiblebigmike7104
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: k00laid]
    #14372662 - 04/29/11 01:35 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

if you watch it long enough you will usually see it switch


--------------------
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind
Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must
Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines


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Invisiblet23

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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip *DELETED* [Re: bigmike7104]
    #14372713 - 04/29/11 01:54 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Post deleted by t23

Reason for deletion: .



Edited by t23 (04/30/11 03:48 AM)


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Offlinei like cow poo
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: t23]
    #14374524 - 04/29/11 08:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Doesn't work for me maybe my mind :rofl:
Oh well.
Also keeping a notebook while tripping is great! I write poems and realizations down all the time!:evil:


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Offlinek00laid
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: i like cow poo]
    #14375293 - 04/29/11 11:05 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

ya i cant do anything of the opticals in this thread.


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OfflineAldebaran
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: obladi oblada]
    #14376370 - 04/30/11 07:45 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

obladi oblada said:
I hate when I come down and try to remember what I had learned,but the insight is just a memory. Its like i know everything and cant wait to start applying this new state of mind to the rest of my life. Its clarity at last! But then the rest of my day is ruined when i come down beacuse i just feel like shit for losing all of that insight

Do you feel this way, and are there any ways to help pull the knowledge gained in the realm of psilocybin with you, back to ordinary reality?




I'm not the first person to suggest this, but writing in a notebook during your trips is a good idea (assuming you want a fairly introspective solo trip). With practice, I find it's possible to keep writing even on fairly hefty doses (although there is often a mysterious gap in the entries during the peak of the trip).

It's curious how what I *think* I wrote in the notebook doesn't always match up with what I actually wrote. As for losing insight and trying to retain "knowledge" I think there are some problems -

Some of the insight from shrooms is heavily state-dependent - i.e some of the things that make sense on shrooms make no sense when you are sober. It's like those deep-sea fish that scientists research - when you bring them to the surface you end up with mush because of the pressure difference. In a vaguely similar way, the essence of a trip is partly that your normal methods of logical thinking are bypassed. This is great for conceptual leaps, creative thinking, and mystical experiences, but it means that if you analyse things written during a trip, there are bizarre contradictions and huge logical gaps you could drive a bus through.

Sometimes during a trip I have the feeling that I have developed some amazing theory of everything. What surprises me when I read my notes, is not that this theory turns out to be delusional nonsense, but that it is completely absent from my writing. It's like the trip creates a box in my mind labelled "answers to everything" but the box is completely empty. Another oddity is that my trip notes often explicitly acknowledge that my thoughts are becoming delusional, but this seems to have little impact on the development of the trip. I can be aware of my delusions, yet still remain in a delusional state.

I think that trying to "know everything" and gain concrete knowledge of the universe through psychedelic revelations is a doomed project. I don't even really understand why people would expect to gain this kind of knowledge, so you can't really criticize the drugs for failing to provide it. On the other hand, I do think that the dissociation during the onset of a shroom trip is a good state of mind in which to acknowledge some "home truths" and gain sensible insights into personal issues from a new perspective.

:scaryshroom:

If this sounds like a sad and depressing state of affairs for those seeking psychedelic knowledge, I think it's part of what makes shrooming so intriguing. I get a good insight into my own capacity for confusion, delusions and ignorance. That in itself is a good insight from psychedelics - that you know a lot less than you think you know, tripping or sober.

The other type of "knowledge" from a trip is where you get a fairly deep spiritual experience, a feeling of an encounter with God or the ultimate reality. The "message" from this kind of trip is expressed quite well in this trip report:

Quote:

Suddenly a million memories started flooding back to me. But they weren't memories from my life. They were memories of the ultimate truth. The answer to every question. This is definitely the hardest part of the trip to explain. It was like an incredible never ending deja vu. The feeling kept getting stronger and stronger as I was soaring through this new spiritual dimension, I didn't have a body to hold me down. Nor did I have a self to hold me together.  When you are on the earth existence, its like you have blinders on, making you forget about the truth. But once you leave the earth world, the spiritual understanding comes back to you.

Thinking back to earth life, and remembering how I was always trying to understand what life really was. But I couldn't understand it because I had those blinders on. But now I was back to the place where my soul had initially came from. My soul was continuously moving faster and faster through this new world, uniting with it. Realizing that it had never been separate from this world. The seperateness was just an illusion. This was my true home. As I thought back to that earth existence, I realized that eventually I would have to go back there. Once again, I'd have to live another life confused about existence with my blinders on. But it didn't matter, because no matter how long it seemed that I would be in that world, it was really only a tiny amount of time compared to how long I'd stay in the ultimate truth once I died again. And then I would come back to my soul's true "home" and reunite with the ultimate.




I think that's a common theme of deep mushroom trips. If you take this idea seriously, you wouldn't necessarily expect to retain that state of psychedelic "clarity" beyond the trip itself; you come to terms with the fact that you will have to live out your life in consensus reality, it's all part of the plan, everything is fine, you do you best and get on with life. You don't gain concrete knowledge of the workings of reality that you can apply to real life, but you get some comfort from "seeing" the truth that resides beyond your current reality.

That's the other core "message" I get from psychedelics. If I have some kind of "God trip" I often get the impression that I am being told that I don't need to worry, everything is fine, don't stress about unravelling the mysteries of the universe, everything will work out and make sense in the end.

Delusional or not, I think these ideas are fairly harmless, since to follow the "instructions" of my tripping mindset would require me to behave no different in real life than I am doing already.

:sunstone:

So what do I really think? I think my psychedelic revelations are mostly delusional, and where they come into conflict with reality, they morph into more sophisticated and unfalsifiable ideas. For example, the first time I took a heavy dose of shrooms, during the trip I was completely convinced that I was God, that I would take over the world, that the population of the planet would be in thrall to my superior knowledge. :crazy2:

In the cold light of day, it's hard work to give this kind of delusion any credence. During later trips, I had the feeling of coming face-to-face with a more traditional God of hellfire and damnation, of being forgiven. This is harder to dismiss as nonsense, as it fits in with the prevailing culture, but still I dismiss it as a delusion.

More recently, I feel that the Godlike entity that turns up in the middle of my trips is more of a sophisticated metaphysical construction. It has more in common with buddhist ideas about the fundamental nature of reality than traditional western religion.

It's as though each trip is an iteration and a modification of a core delusion of "God." Each trip gives me a delusion that fits in better with reality, so that it becomes harder to completely dismiss the possibility that there is some truth to it all.

I think this is a very interesting dynamic going on. I deliberately try and steer my trips into more interesting directions by reading stuff like HP Lovecraft and Iain M Banks novels. Sometimes it works, and my trips become more like the plot of a science fiction film, with delusions of aliens and spacecraft and artificial realities.

I love the mindfuck nature of shroom trips; the confusion, the dysphoria, the fear, the delusions, the nonsense. I'm open-minded enough to accept that there may be some nuggets of truth hidden within the delusions and mind-games. I think this open-mindedness has been helped by the simple fact of having to accept, time and time again, that the contents of my trips are mainly illusory. There are lessons to be learned from psychedelics, but some of them are harsh lessons about the futility of expecting concrete answers to metaphysical questions.

:tigerbunny:


--------------------
I wrote that, but I meant something else


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Offlinepunkrocker292004
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: Aldebaran]
    #14376532 - 04/30/11 08:55 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

:2cents:people on mushrooms are tarded


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OfflineCDClock
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: punkrocker292004] * 3
    #14376933 - 04/30/11 10:46 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

The value in psychedelics is not learning what you didn't know beforehand, it's in realizing what you already know.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: obladi oblada]
    #14377172 - 04/30/11 11:41 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

consciousness operates differently when you have more layers, certainly 'logical' sequences are radically affected.

The thing is most logic is merely a stylistic of thinking in a logical fashion.
Really all thought is associative, not logical, and this inherent truth, impacts what you experience.

The more you buy into 'logic', the wilder your stoned imaginings are likely to be.

Your logically sequenced layer of thought will be overlaid and concurrent with random tripping recall and enriched sensation layers, as well as your personal surfing or tripping panache (i.e. learning to let go and affect the multilayered effects and the results of combinatorial sensation/thought/feelings). The time line of these things will be confused, some things will go backwards, some will stand still, and impossible combinations will naturally co-exist in the multi-layered stream of consciousness.

Logical checks and balances can be completely imagined or side effects of data persisting outside of it's natural time.

your stoned eureka (accompanied with supra mundane dimensional clarity and joy - all with extra resonant layers) will seem to be logical, and it will seem to impart extra meaning (resonance) to the larger than life experiences.

alas, meaning is really just association -> this happened with that, or stood beside that, or was like that... then the two ideas/memory fragments get linked --> All of meaning is this linkage, more linkages, more meaning...

The extra layers and extra depth, however, stay with the stoned consciousness, when you come down, or when consciousness flattens again, you cannot access the loft and density of that kind of layered thought where times can be folded over (past and future concurrent - to some extent), at least not until you are stoned again, meditating deeply, dreaming, or intensely emotional.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: joemolloy]
    #14377969 - 04/30/11 02:23 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

@joemolloy:
Quote:

That's an interesting analogy and one that I've used from time to time.  I don't try to interpret my dreams and feel its an exercise in futility to try to turn the experience into symbols or meaning in order to get a deeper understanding of my psyche.  I don't think dreams have that type of structure or utility just like these drugs.




Yeah well, if you don't seek insight you won't have insight.:wizardfail:

Curious thing is, once you actively seek insight you find you can't obtain it - in the sense of owning it, that is.  What you can do though is lose the BS with which you wrap your world.

Not you, specifically, Joe, although you seem to make a religion out of having no religion. :lol:

It's all good though, even the decay and dissolution part.  Before you were here, where were you?  That's what waits ahead - near infinity behind, near infinity ahead, and this tiny tiny slice of finite awareness that we all share in the exact moment of the now. Or so it seems sometimes. :laugh2:

One other thing, IME the relation between tripping and dreams is pretty strong - the more able you are to get deeply into tripping, the more accessible your dreams become as well.  The difference seems to be that you don't normally remember your most weird and implausible dreams, and if you do you already know they weren't real.  Fail occurs when you trip and think the delusion aspects are real - why should that even be remotely true? 

@t23:
Quote:

I've actually found we have the ability to free ourselves from this method of thought, it happened to when meditating while tripping. I was thinking very clearly, at a much faster speed than usual, I really didn't even know I was capable of something like that. It was kind of like mass information just flowing effortlessly through my head




I've gotten that a lot too, totally straight as well, and that wave can be ridden if you have the skill.  Seems kinda silly that people think that have to think in language, it really limits potential IME.

Quote:

Obviously I forgot everything I was thinking about during that time cause I was blown away at the experience as a whole. But this is where joe makes his point, how can we even know what something like that means to us? How can we turn that into anything of any use if its so abstract and fleeting to our conditioned way of thinking?




But it doesn't have to MEAN anything - this is always the point at which everybody throws up their hands and bitch slaps each other.  "NO IT MEANS THIS!"  "NO IT MEANS THAT!"  It doesn't have to mean anything, it just is.  Ask yourself why you cling to meaning - it's just another attachment to get free of.  My point here is that Joe's point (no offense) is a non-point, it's nonsense in a short skirt. :shrug:

Trip till it hurts, beat it till it bleeds, wring what you can out of the experience.  Psychs will take you to the door but you still gotta walk through it under your own power, that's all.

@dwpineal:
Quote:

So this illustrates the attitude of the mainstream - if your ideas come from unorthodox means, keep them to yourself. This may lead to people thinking that the benefits of psychedelics are intangible.




Great point.  I use mushrooms multiple days a week specifically for creative work. But I'm not likely to say much more about it here or anywhere.  Yeah, you get the crazies like McKenna who can't manage to get out of their own way, and you get skeptics like Joe who brings a nice balance to the lala-land voyagers, but on the whole the motion forward can't be denied or diverted.

IME these drugs are incredibly useful and I believe the wheel is turning back around.  But in the meantime - you don't need no stinkin' grant or government program or pharm lab access to explore these realms.  If fear and paranoia is what holds you back, just try to get over it.  You might lose your "mind" but you can build a new one that works a lot better, so get on with it!  Go to the cult forum and just get started.

And study Buddhist insight methods.  So much of what people talk about here with no real sense of how it works is much better understood with the aid of insight meditation practice.  It's like trying to swim without ever having practiced the strokes.

All I got time for today, have a good life.

:peace:PS


--------------------

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Invisiblet23

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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip *DELETED* [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #14379243 - 04/30/11 07:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Post deleted by t23

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Edited by t23 (04/30/11 07:56 PM)


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Offlineobladi oblada
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: t23]
    #14391414 - 05/02/11 09:24 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

You guys are all talking of the visions, the dreamlike flashes that mushrooms present to you. Delusion or not, what about new perspective? THAT is what I benefit most from. I agree that the 'visions' may be nonsense, but the completely altered thought process that these drugs provide is nothing to be ignored. New thoughts can be linked,created, applied....

So much is to be seen when the veil is lifted!


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:shroompick: :regularshroom: :amanita2: :supershroom: :mushroomgrow: :mushroom2: :pinkshroom: :1up: :greenshroom:


Edited by obladi oblada (05/02/11 09:26 PM)


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InvisibleLuman
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: obladi oblada]
    #14391923 - 05/02/11 10:46 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

obladi oblada said:
You guys are all talking of the visions, the dreamlike flashes that mushrooms present to you. Delusion or not, what about new perspective? THAT is what I benefit most from. I agree that the 'visions' may be nonsense, but the completely altered thought process that these drugs provide is nothing to be ignored. New thoughts can be linked,created, applied....

So much is to be seen when the veil is lifted!




Agreed, though I would say that the visions aren't necessarily complete nonsense, these drugs can just bring deep-rooted ideas to the forefront of awareness, or anything prevalent and dominating within the psyche, with more than a touch of the characteristics/personality the mushrooms embody. If the idea brought forward is nonsense, then of course the vision related to it would be.  But, otherwise, it can be just as significant as a strange, yet relevant and meaningful dream.

Talking more of the vivid, closed eye visuals than watching shit melt, breathe, etc.


--------------------
"The soul?  Here we have no use for such frivolities."


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OfflineNetwork23
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: obladi oblada]
    #14393996 - 05/03/11 11:32 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Very interresting read here. I cant even keep all what was sayed in my mind, but that doesnt matter. For what I want to say is this:


From LSD experiences I had, I realized one thing. Dont trust nobody what he tells you. Everyone knows same shit as I do. So if someone here states, that there is nothing to gain from psychedelics, I dont trust him, because my experience tells me otherwise.


Haha guys, there isnt any truth that you can tell to someone considering psychedelics. Maybe its truth for you, but that doesnt mean its truth for someone else. We are all different cases. ALL.


We have different starting settings.Someones is birth like a Budha, someone has a long path before him. Those people will have completely different experiences. Also your birthsign is important factor (or maybe birthsign=your personality).


Psychedelics are IMO good for people who are born in air signs. The futurist and openminded ones. And it will show completely different experience to this person comparing to someone fully materialistic like ground signs.


I can for myself say, that I had the luck. I ate a lot, with long pauses where I was sober and thinking about what happened for years. Than I felt I want more. Than I thaught again.


Im sure psychedelics show me that there is more to this world, than it is obvious. And since than I started my path. I feel - I know im repeating myself - that I walked some amount of path somewhre. So basically I feel a steady progress. Is that only my ilusion? No :smile: I trust myself, nobody knows better than me on this case. Because telepathy isnt common knowledge, so we cant share our minds to be able to say something more valuable than guesses.



And even if that feeling was ilusion, based on that progress I make a real life adjustments. Which are real.

I hated people, because they seemed to me, they are all so stupid. That they dont see anything, and just dont use their brains. Than I realized its bad behaviour. And learned to take it the other way. That we are here to learn, and I cant be angry for someone being learning. I can help em maybe, say a word here and there, to put an idea in their brains,to let em think.

I saw doing this, how my attitude towards my surrounding is comming back to me. I see it everyday. Another realization based on psychedelics. And another questions, as its always on my psycho-path.

I can go on and on...


So yea I can be completely wrong but I doubt it. There is psychedelic knowledge which can be transcripted in real world. To some extend. some realizations are not from this world and dont work here - the complete understanding and such. Thats because this world is separated from other one. It has a reason. And the problem of getting info from one side to the other side is a reflection of this.


Imo best results (considering you choose the drug way) can be obtained when you combine both sides for a long enough time. You think about reality while on acid (dont have to do it on purpose) and you think about acid when sober. For a long enough time which varies person by person



Last thing is: I one time had a super intense LSD trip, I will write about it in future. I had about 150 trips and this was top 2 experience. After this trip in the morning, when the rush felt off, I had a strange feeling. I cant make myself feel it anymore, but I remember it. I felt, like some parts of knowlege I considered normal on that trip, were - one after another - switching off. Like some parts of brain stopped to work or something. Like the gates are closing so some regions. And it wasnt one region. It was multiple parts of different knowledge being cut out from me on the run. I just felt: ah this one dissapeared, bad:/ and now another one! What was it?? What was the previous one? I got the knowledge and didnt knew about it before it was removed, because it felt natural...

I couldnt remember what was cut out because I didnt have access to it anymore, and it didnt matter it happened 2 seconds before now- doors closed.

That was that part of psychedelic experience you CANT take to reality.



PEACE


--------------------
“Nobody stopped thinking about those psychedelic experiences. Once you’ve been to some of those places, you think, ‘How can I get back there again but make it a little easier on myself?’” Jerry Garcia 1989


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: Luman]
    #14394321 - 05/03/11 12:48 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Agreed, though I would say that the visions aren't necessarily complete nonsense, these drugs can just bring deep-rooted ideas to the forefront of awareness, or anything prevalent and dominating within the psyche, with more than a touch of the characteristics/personality the mushrooms embody. If the idea brought forward is nonsense, then of course the vision related to it would be.  But, otherwise, it can be just as significant as a strange, yet relevant and meaningful dream.




I love the visuals, they can be so different from trip to trip it's hard to categorize.

Quote:

There is psychedelic knowledge which can be transcripted in real world.




Yup.  Side comment on that, after about 10 years away from tripping, it took me quite a while to reconnect with ALL of the previous experiences when I started again.  But suddenly, one day, it all came back. :awesomenod:

:peace:PS


--------------------

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Offlineobladi oblada
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: Network23]
    #14394495 - 05/03/11 01:36 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I agree with Luman and Network23.

I could list things i have learned as well. Marijuana also offers the altered state for me, but along with that is paranoia, which is why i quit smoking.

And Network23, the closing of doors that you described reminds me of waking up from sleep, and occasionally a thought will just disappear, and there is usually no getting it back so you just have to accept that what you were just focused on is gone and you must move on. Rarely though, I will retrieve the thought.


--------------------
:shroompick: :regularshroom: :amanita2: :supershroom: :mushroomgrow: :mushroom2: :pinkshroom: :1up: :greenshroom:


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