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bigmike7104
Stranger

Registered: 07/12/10
Posts: 1,395
Loc: USA
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: obladi oblada]
#14366481 - 04/28/11 11:40 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
obladi oblada said: I hate when I come down and try to remember what I had learned,but the insight is just a memory. Its like i know everything and cant wait to start applying this new state of mind to the rest of my life. Its clarity at last! But then the rest of my day is ruined when i come down beacuse i just feel like shit for losing all of that insight
Do you feel this way, and are there any ways to help pull the knowledge gained in the realm of psilocybin with you, back to ordinary reality?
maybe try writing during the trip. though if it was something you were going to forget when you came down already, then i feel like you'll just look at the writings later on and think wtf? it will probably make it more likely though.
-------------------- Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines
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t23

Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 349
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip *DELETED* [Re: bigmike7104]
#14366824 - 04/28/11 12:59 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Post deleted by t23Reason for deletion: .
Edited by t23 (04/28/11 01:03 PM)
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nothing exists
master of fire

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 289
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: bigmike7104]
#14366865 - 04/28/11 01:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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knowledge cannot be lost... only ignored... all knowledge is already a part of you, the part that perceives... science tells us that nothing exists, that reality is a beam of energy coming from the ultimate future where everything and nothing happens infinitely...(holographic universe)... the higher power that causes us calls this the fall because we literally fell into a time hole outside of reality where we live in self imposed virtual ignorance of our infinite state that lies just outside material comprehension... religion causes reconnection, re ligare, to reconnect with the source... psychedelics are the best religion on this planet, but like other religions, can be abused and made to look meaningless, foolish or downright dangerous... in reality, no religion causes anything to happen, man does... or doesnt, as the case may be...
-------------------- i like you...
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Horsewithnoname
I can't remember my name



Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1,084
Loc: In the desert
Last seen: 5 months, 3 days
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What about insights regarding music or creativity? Those stay or at least have stayed for me. My view of the musical experience was greatly enhanced by psychedelics in a way that boundaries were brought down. I stopped thinking about time intervals and divisions as exact rigid schemes but more as some gummy fabric that can be played with in order to create some response in our psychology.
The dude who created the model for DNA was inspired during a LSD trip, so there actually are insights occurring during these experiences that can last and be useful, it's just that the meaning of life or existence (if there is such thing as that) won't come flying because you ask questions when out of your mind, but ask the right questions and you might go to places you haven't ever been to before.
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Yes they do. A lot of my trip time has gone to music, practicing that way is so much more beneficial than in ordinary states, and muscle memory never forgets... Besides, psychedelic music is what you normally play when you're psychedelicized, so dig. 
In general your ability to extract patterns is enhanced. I see patterns in shower tiles, paint, all kinds of things reliably while tripping that are hard to detect otherwise. Music is a pattern in time and frequency and it's no wonder it opens up so vividly while tripping.
PS
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obladi oblada



Registered: 07/25/10
Posts: 463
Loc: United States
Last seen: 2 months, 3 days
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: PrimalSoup]
#14367245 - 04/28/11 02:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I have concluded that logic is illogical, as two proven points can contradict each other.
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joemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
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Quote:
Horsewithnoname said: What about insights regarding music or creativity? Those stay or at least have stayed for me. My view of the musical experience was greatly enhanced by psychedelics in a way that boundaries were brought down. I stopped thinking about time intervals and divisions as exact rigid schemes but more as some gummy fabric that can be played with in order to create some response in our psychology.
The dude who created the model for DNA was inspired during a LSD trip, so there actually are insights occurring during these experiences that can last and be useful, it's just that the meaning of life or existence (if there is such thing as that) won't come flying because you ask questions when out of your mind, but ask the right questions and you might go to places you haven't ever been to before.

I agree that music is enhanced by drugs, you can hear it with a new set of ears. It's quite an experience and thoroughly enjoyable. Perhaps people's artistic expression is improved by these drugs, but let me be the pompous critic and then we'll see.
As far as Watson or Crick giving credit to LSD for their insight into the structure of DNA, I am less impressed. They had the x-ray picture and made the three dimensional leap. For all of the scientific advances made without psychedelics, and one purported win for the drug team, I'd say it was a rare and isolated coincidence. I don't think there is any instructive lesson there to regard these drugs as impressive based on that example. Consider all of the delusions, illusions, and dangerous ideas that these drugs have been responsible for. Weigh DNA on one side of the scale and delusional nonsense on the other. I can see it tipping with tremendous force.
-------------------- Don't PM me with bullshit. I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.
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joemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: t23]
#14367284 - 04/28/11 02:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
If people like joemolloy want to come to conclusion that all his thoughts are just deformed hybrids of random brain splooge and really there's no truth in anything, then let him manifest that into his own mind, (and it kinda sounds like it already has) but don't let him tell you so. When it comes down to it who's he to know. But even if this life is all illusion, I think you'd learn a lot to steer clear from his type of conclusion. You are what you are, you wake up everyday, wait until you die to decide if it was all just bullshit.
Yeah, its a bitch having these thoughts but I can't throw everything I know and feel to the wind and accept what I regard as nonsense for truth. Where do you draw the line in what to accept and what to shitcan? When peering into the rabbit hole, how do you separate the shit from shinola? It all smells curiously similar when tripping.
-------------------- Don't PM me with bullshit. I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.
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StarrGazer
Stranger

Registered: 01/25/11
Posts: 12
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: obladi oblada]
#14367373 - 04/28/11 02:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I dont wanna act like I know everything here because I really don't but I think it's the same as anything, the good stuff will always stick with you but the rest will go. It's a bit like writing music, if you write a really cool melody one day and it's still going around in your head the next, you know it's worth holding on to and you've probably got a good thing going.
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joemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: StarrGazer]
#14367418 - 04/28/11 02:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
StarrGazer said: I dont wanna act like I know everything here because I really don't but I think it's the same as anything, the good stuff will always stick with you but the rest will go. It's a bit like writing music, if you write a really cool melody one day and it's still going around in your head the next, you know it's worth holding on to and you've probably got a good thing going.
Well this one visionary and enlightened experience was kicking around my head for a while after an interesting ayahuasca session: My ex-girlfriend from high school (almost 20 years ago) had sex with a rock star and I am their child. They made great music. When that situation was presented to me, I felt like Moses on the mountain being handed those fuckin' tablets. I knew, motherfucker. I called my mom to let her know that gem. "Whatchu talkin' bout Willis?!"
Was that psychedelic moment a keeper or shall I keep looking?
-------------------- Don't PM me with bullshit. I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: joemolloy]
#14367431 - 04/28/11 02:55 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hey Joe, is that Nancy Reagan in your avatar?
PS
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Supermario420
1 up


Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 131
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I respectfully disagree with your view on this one, joemolloy. To start off, nobody can rightfully claim that other's (in this case, trip-induced) experiences or knowledge retention is invalid, or more-so, impossible. It's completely assumptive and subjective, with nothing to back it up. To relate in part to nothing exists's comment, all knowledge, in itself, is already there. It is up to our experiences to further open the doors to it. Think multiple universes and inevitability. In my opinion, once we sense something (with any of our senses), we know it forever, regardless of how difficult if may be to dig up and put into practical use. Have you ever heard a song, tasted something, or even seen someone that gave you a flashback, perhaps from a time when you were an infant? But, for some reason, nothing else can seem to bring back such a distant memory? Someone who was attacked by a dog as a baby may not remember the experience consciously, or think about it on a regular basis, but they will most likely be weary of dogs as adults. My point is, although we may not realize it, our experiences- even our life before birth- are engrained in us permanently, whether we believe we're putting them to every day use or not (we are our experiences, so they are a part of our every day lives). Without exception, all of our experiences shape who we are. Of course significance, duration, emotional appeal, and other factors likely influence the degree to which said experiences affect us. I feel as though (respectfully) devaluing mental retention of one's personal experiences and knowledge (i.e: trips), while validating textbook knowledge is a rather wavering point of view. A textbook is but an organized compilation of experts' (humans) opinions and experiences (studies), and factual knowledge (as humans believe it to be). By reading a book, one is absorbing external material, so who's to say external knowledge is any more valid than self acquired knowledge? No disrespect, but as t23 suggested, it sounds as though you may have tried to find yourself, to have a life changing experience, one you can hold onto, but became somewhat apprehensive of your new-found beliefs, began to perceive them as deceptive, falsehoods, fabrications, and turned to publishes works, other's thoughts and beliefs, as a safe zone. I've been in that boat but jumped it soon after I realized that I was brainwashing myself with other's ideas in order to avoid creating, and deciphering my own. And my last word, for one to say there is a lack of examples or hard proof present to validate one's experiences (sometimes life changing), is also suggesting that any one person should be able to absorb 100% of their internal and external influences at any (and every) given moment in time, and describe exactly how they are affected by them, and how they will use them in every day life. It would be highly unlikely that many people- if anybody at all- could do so. In any case, everybody is different, and what works for one doesn't always work for the other. We also all see the world differently, through our own eyes, and aside from having different experiences, will perceive the very same thing in completely different ways.
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nothing exists
master of fire

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 289
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: Supermario420]
#14367745 - 04/28/11 03:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
joemolloy said: To be honest, my most intense and productive growth came from ordering dozens of $4 textbooks off of Ebay. I'd buy the thickest and cheapest biology, anthropology, psychology, sociology, philosophy, etc. books and just skim them all the time. That's fucking growth. My college education can't compare to the years I've spent reading textbooks for fun. Nothing has had such a tremendous impact on my understanding of the world and my place in it. Psychedelics can't hold a candle to it. And you're right, I sound gay as hell, like a fucking 1980s Reading is Fundamental public advertisement, but nothing has affected as deeply as reading textbooks. I'll always be a skeptic though, I question a lot of the claims in textbooks and call bullshit on them with the same fervor (but less frequency) as I do on the psychedelic experience.
around the age of about 33, the spirit energy readies itself for a metamorphosis, if the mind has been properly conditioned, the spirit reaches a new level of understanding, leading to even further growth... if the mind is improperly prepared, an unsettling feeling develops in the body, like something is missing or is deteriorating, which causes the sufferer to feel bitter about their life experiences, and since misery loves company...
personally, i think hes a squartagon, just posing as a burnout to fight enlightenment from behind the lines, why else would he be such a good tool for establishment thought?
-------------------- i like you...
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nothing exists
master of fire

Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 289
Last seen: 6 years, 7 months
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BTW... i get high as fuck and write $4 textbooks...
-------------------- i like you...
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StarrGazer
Stranger

Registered: 01/25/11
Posts: 12
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: joemolloy]
#14367901 - 04/28/11 04:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
joemolloy said:
Quote:
StarrGazer said: I dont wanna act like I know everything here because I really don't but I think it's the same as anything, the good stuff will always stick with you but the rest will go. It's a bit like writing music, if you write a really cool melody one day and it's still going around in your head the next, you know it's worth holding on to and you've probably got a good thing going.
Well this one visionary and enlightened experience was kicking around my head for a while after an interesting ayahuasca session: My ex-girlfriend from high school (almost 20 years ago) had sex with a rock star and I am their child. They made great music. When that situation was presented to me, I felt like Moses on the mountain being handed those fuckin' tablets. I knew, motherfucker. I called my mom to let her know that gem. "Whatchu talkin' bout Willis?!"
Was that psychedelic moment a keeper or shall I keep looking?
haha well I don't necessarily mean it's gonna be a good thing you hold on to, just something that affects you in some way. A bit like when you watch a scary movie and a certain aspect of it plays on your mind. Or more positively if you read a good book and some part of it really sticks in your mind and inspires you. It's kind of up to the tripper to decide whether or not it's garbage.
some of the ideas and stuff I've come up with on weed have been good, but I think that's down to the weed slowing my thought process down and considering each thought more deeply. I don't think psychedelics can bring in a 'foreign' thought though. Any inspiration from an acid trip or whatever was probably in you from the beginning, the acid/shrooms/weed/whatever just 'unlocked' it.
or at least that's my opinion, I don't think it's too unreasonable.
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Horsewithnoname
I can't remember my name



Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1,084
Loc: In the desert
Last seen: 5 months, 3 days
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: joemolloy]
#14368009 - 04/28/11 04:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
joemolloy said:
Quote:
Horsewithnoname said: What about insights regarding music or creativity? Those stay or at least have stayed for me. My view of the musical experience was greatly enhanced by psychedelics in a way that boundaries were brought down. I stopped thinking about time intervals and divisions as exact rigid schemes but more as some gummy fabric that can be played with in order to create some response in our psychology.
The dude who created the model for DNA was inspired during a LSD trip, so there actually are insights occurring during these experiences that can last and be useful, it's just that the meaning of life or existence (if there is such thing as that) won't come flying because you ask questions when out of your mind, but ask the right questions and you might go to places you haven't ever been to before.

I agree that music is enhanced by drugs, you can hear it with a new set of ears. It's quite an experience and thoroughly enjoyable. Perhaps people's artistic expression is improved by these drugs, but let me be the pompous critic and then we'll see.
As far as Watson or Crick giving credit to LSD for their insight into the structure of DNA, I am less impressed. They had the x-ray picture and made the three dimensional leap. For all of the scientific advances made without psychedelics, and one purported win for the drug team, I'd say it was a rare and isolated coincidence. I don't think there is any instructive lesson there to regard these drugs as impressive based on that example. Consider all of the delusions, illusions, and dangerous ideas that these drugs have been responsible for. Weigh DNA on one side of the scale and delusional nonsense on the other. I can see it tipping with tremendous force.
My intent wasn't to support psychedelics as a reliable process of knowledge acquisition, but to try and make you see that not all psychedelic experiences should be regarded as delusional crap, when something valuable may occur only during that kind of state of mind. It's a way of getting some perspective to the usual day to day reasoning.
Personally I believe psychedelics help to have a better understanding of how fragile and dynamic our consciousness and brain processes are, and doing that most certainly is fun. On the other hand, usually after tripping I'm a much more motivated person, it kind of gives me a burst of energy fueled by this "crazy insights". It may not make sense as it did during the trip, but somehow it works for me, so in the end empirical evidence provides me reasons to take part in the psychedelic experience from time to time.
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bholzer
quasi-scientist


Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 2,409
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: StarrGazer]
#14368106 - 04/28/11 04:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
StarrGazer said:
Quote:
joemolloy said:
Quote:
StarrGazer said: I dont wanna act like I know everything here because I really don't but I think it's the same as anything, the good stuff will always stick with you but the rest will go. It's a bit like writing music, if you write a really cool melody one day and it's still going around in your head the next, you know it's worth holding on to and you've probably got a good thing going.
Well this one visionary and enlightened experience was kicking around my head for a while after an interesting ayahuasca session: My ex-girlfriend from high school (almost 20 years ago) had sex with a rock star and I am their child. They made great music. When that situation was presented to me, I felt like Moses on the mountain being handed those fuckin' tablets. I knew, motherfucker. I called my mom to let her know that gem. "Whatchu talkin' bout Willis?!"
Was that psychedelic moment a keeper or shall I keep looking?
haha well I don't necessarily mean it's gonna be a good thing you hold on to, just something that affects you in some way. A bit like when you watch a scary movie and a certain aspect of it plays on your mind. Or more positively if you read a good book and some part of it really sticks in your mind and inspires you. It's kind of up to the tripper to decide whether or not it's garbage.
some of the ideas and stuff I've come up with on weed have been good, but I think that's down to the weed slowing my thought process down and considering each thought more deeply. I don't think psychedelics can bring in a 'foreign' thought though. Any inspiration from an acid trip or whatever was probably in you from the beginning, the acid/shrooms/weed/whatever just 'unlocked' it.
or at least that's my opinion, I don't think it's too unreasonable.
Well said. There are threads like this all the time trying to decipher meanings found in psychedelics. Where there are these threads, you can bet your ass Joe will be there.
He always brings some mighty good arguments to the table, and this one seems to be a very good response. Simple, yet spot-on.
There has to be a balance between Joe's "psychedelic thoughts aren't worth anything" and many other's "psychedelic thoughts are the most important one's ever."
And I think this post puts that balance into words.
--------------------
Use these substances wisely, they have the ability to cause life altering realizations.
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joemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
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Quote:
Hey Joe, is that Nancy Reagan in your avatar?
I'm channeling her spirit. Can't you tell?
Quote:
around the age of about 33, the spirit energy readies itself for a metamorphosis, if the mind has been properly conditioned, the spirit reaches a new level of understanding, leading to even further growth... if the mind is improperly prepared, an unsettling feeling develops in the body, like something is missing or is deteriorating, which causes the sufferer to feel bitter about their life experiences, and since misery loves company...
personally, i think hes a squartagon, just posing as a burnout to fight enlightenment from behind the lines, why else would he be such a good tool for establishment thought?
Where do you get the idea that your or I have a spirit? That's some wishful thinking. And what's a squartagon?
Something is missing? You're right, its a meaning to this existence but psychedelic drugs, the Bible, and textbooks can't begin fill that void for me. I'm glad you have some insight though, you must be more perceptive.
Quote:
No disrespect, but as t23 suggested, it sounds as though you may have tried to find yourself, to have a life changing experience, one you can hold onto, but became somewhat apprehensive of your new-found beliefs, began to perceive them as deceptive, falsehoods, fabrications, and turned to publishes works, other's thoughts and beliefs, as a safe zone. I've been in that boat but jumped it soon after I realized that I was brainwashing myself with other's ideas in order to avoid creating, and deciphering my own.
Again, its the problem of separating the shit from shinola. It's all shit to me, unless it ain't. It'd be shit to you too if you had my mind and my experiences.
Quote:
My point is, although we may not realize it, our experiences- even our life before birth- are engrained in us permanently, whether we believe we're putting them to every day use or not (we are our experiences, so they are a part of our every day lives). Without exception, all of our experiences shape who we are. Of course significance, duration, emotional appeal, and other factors likely influence the degree to which said experiences affect us.
I agree with this and I put the psychedelic experience in the same league as a nice masturbation session or a trip to an amusement park. To elevate it above those two would be like sanctifying the orgasm from a satisfying internet porn expedition.
-------------------- Don't PM me with bullshit. I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.
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joemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: bholzer]
#14368419 - 04/28/11 05:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Where there are these threads, you can bet your ass Joe will be there.
Yeah, I'm getting tired dude. It's just opinions volleying back and forth. I refuse to accept the mystical, spiritual, religious, or even positive use of these drugs. That's an extreme position to take in a place such as this. There are places in the world where I my ideas are totally cool and even common sensible, but that doesn't make me feel any better.
Who knows? Maybe I'm just close minded. But maybe others are too open-minded. Here we go again, it never ends, right?
There is no Truth or Meaning or Point. Where'd I get this fucking nihilism? It's pretty intense. The fucked up part is that I have everything I've ever wanted. Love, money, success landed on my fucking lap. All of it. What a life. I guess be careful what you wish for. It'll always be a struggle because happiness and peace are fleeting, flirty little bitches. But I submit these drugs don't help me in that struggle even though I was convinced they were the answer. Silly me. Stupid me. Today's a strange one, I feel damn trippy and I haven't tripped in two weeks. Is that brain damage starting to manifest? There's no free ride, is there?
-------------------- Don't PM me with bullshit. I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.
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bigmike7104
Stranger

Registered: 07/12/10
Posts: 1,395
Loc: USA
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: joemolloy]
#14368871 - 04/28/11 07:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
I refuse to accept the mystical, spiritual, religious, or even positive use of these drugs
what about all the studies that are showing it's benefit?
-------------------- Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines
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