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Offlineobladi oblada
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Knowledge lost after mushroom trip
    #14361190 - 04/27/11 01:44 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I hate when I come down and try to remember what I had learned,but the insight is just a memory. Its like i know everything and cant wait to start applying this new state of mind to the rest of my life. Its clarity at last! But then the rest of my day is ruined when i come down beacuse i just feel like shit for losing all of that insight

Do you feel this way, and are there any ways to help pull the knowledge gained in the realm of psilocybin with you, back to ordinary reality?


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:shroompick: :regularshroom: :amanita2: :supershroom: :mushroomgrow: :mushroom2: :pinkshroom: :1up: :greenshroom:

Edited by obladi oblada (04/27/11 01:47 PM)

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OfflineFUTURIST
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: obladi oblada]
    #14361285 - 04/27/11 02:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

look up Joemolly on here and read some of his post...

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Invisiblejoemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: FUTURIST]
    #14361363 - 04/27/11 02:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Here's a cut and paste from a previous post on a similar topic. 

Quote:

Dude, you have some serious thoughts, some complex intellectual ponderings, and major existential questions that you want answered.  Unfortunately I don't think psychedelics will give you insight, provide you perspective, or allow you access to any of this.  Your mind is already in overdrive by evidence of your post.  I can't imagine how flooding your brain with a powerful psychedelic could possibly bring clarity to your thoughts.

This is what I predict will happen:  You'll trip, have racing metaphorical thoughts that will combine, coalesce, fuck each other and have children.  It'll all make sense though, you'll get your answers, or at least what feels like answers.  Those questions and speculations will twist into logical pretzels and you'll watch pleased at your progress.  Yeah, brother, you'll understand finally.  And it'll feel amazing, just like you imagined, even better than you imagined because all you want is to Know and now you do.

And then its gone, just like that.  You can scratch and claw and grab and bite, but you can't keep any of it.  You can video and audio record it, keep perfect notes, but its gone brother.  Not forever though, because you can take the drug again and go even further next time.  And each time you'll learn more, gain better insights, grasp onto it.  But it will always disappear.  Probably because it was never there in the first place.

And if you do think you got to keep it, then you're really in trouble.

Your questions can't be answered.  Nobody has any fucking clue to any of it.  We create Bibles, philosophies, ideologies, and so on, but we are all just fucking whistling and some of us just make prettier songs than others.

Yeah this is all my opinion, but somehow it feels like a hard motherfucking fact.




And when people are able to articulate their insights from trips, don't seem so damn trite, obvious, and frustratingly simple?  That's enlightenment?  Perhaps it is, but after the trip wears off it certainly loses its luster, force, and profoundness.  I think that appreciation we have for life after a good trip is a just remnant of drug induced anti-depressant effects.


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Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

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Offlinebholzer
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: joemolloy]
    #14361381 - 04/27/11 02:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

joemolloy said:
Here's a cut and paste from a previous post on a similar topic. 

Quote:

Dude, you have some serious thoughts, some complex intellectual ponderings, and major existential questions that you want answered.  Unfortunately I don't think psychedelics will give you insight, provide you perspective, or allow you access to any of this.  Your mind is already in overdrive by evidence of your post.  I can't imagine how flooding your brain with a powerful psychedelic could possibly bring clarity to your thoughts.

This is what I predict will happen:  You'll trip, have racing metaphorical thoughts that will combine, coalesce, fuck each other and have children.  It'll all make sense though, you'll get your answers, or at least what feels like answers.  Those questions and speculations will twist into logical pretzels and you'll watch pleased at your progress.  Yeah, brother, you'll understand finally.  And it'll feel amazing, just like you imagined, even better than you imagined because all you want is to Know and now you do.

And then its gone, just like that.  You can scratch and claw and grab and bite, but you can't keep any of it.  You can video and audio record it, keep perfect notes, but its gone brother.  Not forever though, because you can take the drug again and go even further next time.  And each time you'll learn more, gain better insights, grasp onto it.  But it will always disappear.  Probably because it was never there in the first place.

And if you do think you got to keep it, then you're really in trouble.

Your questions can't be answered.  Nobody has any fucking clue to any of it.  We create Bibles, philosophies, ideologies, and so on, but we are all just fucking whistling and some of us just make prettier songs than others.

Yeah this is all my opinion, but somehow it feels like a hard motherfucking fact.




And when people are able to articulate their insights from trips, don't seem so damn trite, obvious, and frustratingly simple?  That's enlightenment?  Perhaps it is, but after the trip wears off it certainly loses its luster, force, and profoundness.  I think that appreciation we have for life after a good trip is a just remnant of drug induced anti-depressant effects.




:whathesaid: I have to say, he almost always says it right. My thoughts with psychedelic-gained insight almost always jive with his.

The insights and thoughts gained are worth mentioning, but not worth incorporating in life. Not on a large scale at least.


--------------------


Use these substances wisely, they have the ability to cause life altering realizations.

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OfflineFUTURIST
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: bholzer]
    #14361386 - 04/27/11 02:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Read Joe's post on this one if you wish I like what he said.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14225269/fpart/1/vc/1

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OfflineTheMerryGangster
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: FUTURIST]
    #14361412 - 04/27/11 02:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I cannot express how much the insights I have experienced while on psychedelics have catalyzed my growth as a person. I often used to complain about that same idea, that the insights seemed so tangible and so limitless under the influence then when you back to "reality" and all the pressures, responsibilities, and thought processes of the place we've been born into begin to bring us out of focus. It was and still is a constant struggle for me to maintain awareness enough to apply what I've learned but it's becoming easier and easier. Overall, I've benefited myself so much from pursuing that perspective in everyday life.


--------------------
Lysergic exploration.
Fungus-induced enlightenment.
Herbal healing.

"When you realize how perfect everything is you will tilt your head back and laugh at the sky." -Buddha.

:aum: Peace :peace:, Love :heart:, and Light :psychsplit: :aum:

*EVERYTHING I SAY ON THIS SITE IS PURELY FICTION*

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Invisiblejoemolloy
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Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: TheMerryGangster]
    #14361500 - 04/27/11 02:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

TheMerryGangster said:
I cannot express how much the insights I have experienced while on psychedelics have catalyzed my growth as a person. I often used to complain about that same idea, that the insights seemed so tangible and so limitless under the influence then when you back to "reality" and all the pressures, responsibilities, and thought processes of the place we've been born into begin to bring us out of focus. It was and still is a constant struggle for me to maintain awareness enough to apply what I've learned but it's becoming easier and easier. Overall, I've benefited myself so much from pursuing that perspective in everyday life.




Your words were my words for two years and no one could tell me otherwise.  I was adamant that my life was changed for the better.  But as I read your post, it hits me so fucking hard - the lack of detail, the lack of examples, the reliance on such general statements.  Can you pin it down?  It's tough.  I could never articulate anything other than abstract, vague quasi-ideas that sort of made me feel good.  That was a bitch for me when I reached that conclusion.  Merrygangster, I hope your life is improved because of your trips, I hope that you've gained deep insights into yourself and acted upon them.  Maybe I'm just an unlucky fuck. 

To be honest, my most intense and productive growth came from ordering dozens of $4 textbooks off of Ebay.  I'd buy the thickest and cheapest biology, anthropology, psychology, sociology, philosophy, etc. books and just skim them all the time.  That's fucking growth.  My college education can't compare to the years I've spent reading textbooks for fun.  Nothing has had such a tremendous impact on my understanding of the world and my place in it.  Psychedelics can't hold a candle to it.  And you're right, I sound gay as hell, like a fucking 1980s Reading is Fundamental public advertisement, but nothing has affected as deeply as reading textbooks.  I'll always be a skeptic though, I question a lot of the claims in textbooks and call bullshit on them with the same fervor (but less frequency) as I do on the psychedelic experience.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

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InvisiblePsilosomniac
Registered: 09/14/10
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: TheMerryGangster]
    #14361525 - 04/27/11 02:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

First trip I had, I brought a very small notepad to write stuff down on.  Having experienced those "profound realizations", etc, I attempted to write some of it down.  Trip ended up getting a little hectic (we were hiking), and I was afraid we had lost the pad of paper because it wasn't in my bag.  I spent a good amount of time very disappointed and afraid that I had lost everything I had realized.  My friend ended up finding the notepad in his bag, and I was very excited to take a look at it and remember what I found so important.

Turns out 99% of the notepad was still empty, I had drawn a picture of a nice looking tree, and there was some nonsense written (mostly by my friend, stuff like "WINERS ONERS", I mean, what the hell does that even mean?), but there was nothing that was profound at all.  I thought it was an excellent symbol of the psychedelic experience.  You think what you've got means everything, but it all turns out to be a few scribbled lines in a mostly empty notebook.

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OfflineFUTURIST
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: Psilosomniac]
    #14361577 - 04/27/11 03:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Haha! you found it!!!....WINERS ONERS.... thats it you found the secret to life and all the answers!... thats funny man.

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Offlinegabbaganchi
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: FUTURIST]
    #14361866 - 04/27/11 03:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

psychedelics keep me from thinking i know anything at all


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:sanpedro: :peyote: :tripmolecule:

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OfflineJoolz
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: gabbaganchi]
    #14361928 - 04/27/11 04:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:whathesaid:

You can have your truths, your question of life that needs answering. Keep it, I don't want it. I take psychs for the show and the feeling.


--------------------
Prohibition didn't work for God; Eve ate the fruit.

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OfflineAser
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: Joolz]
    #14362022 - 04/27/11 04:18 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It's true. If you try to document these great findings, you will find out when you sober up that they are either stupid and logically flawed or beyond your comprehension.

I think the value of psychedelics isn't in concrete knowledge but rather creativity and non linear thinking.

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Offlinebholzer
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: Aser]
    #14362064 - 04/27/11 04:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Aser said:

I think the value of psychedelics isn't in concrete knowledge but rather creativity and non linear thinking.




So simple, but so well said. I'll probably use this quote for a while.


--------------------


Use these substances wisely, they have the ability to cause life altering realizations.

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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: obladi oblada]
    #14362343 - 04/27/11 05:07 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I hate when I come down and try to remember what I had learned,but the insight is just a memory. Its like i know everything and cant wait to start applying this new state of mind to the rest of my life. Its clarity at last! But then the rest of my day is ruined when i come down beacuse i just feel like shit for losing all of that insight

Do you feel this way, and are there any ways to help pull the knowledge gained in the realm of psilocybin with you, back to ordinary reality?




A lot of it's delusional if it doesn't stay with you. 

But don't make the common mistake of thinking it's all delusional, because indeed you can retain those insights.  It won't happen the first time, maybe not the tenth time either, but keep at it and eventually you'll ratchet the wheel along enough to where your shroomed mind and your normal mind intersect well enough to keep the understanding intact.  I think most people give up too early, they get the great thoughts and all that and then they lose it and think "well that's all there is to that."  No, it's not all there is to that, don't make that mistake.

You get people who go all anti-this and anti-that about it as well, 'cause it didn't work for them.  But ask yourself, how much effort did they ever put into it?  Did they think the show was all staged for their own personal benefit? Just sayin', you get out of it what you put into it, nothing more, nothing less.

The key is frequency and repetition, just like anything else.  You wanna train muscles, do you work them once a year?  Once a month?  And expect anything to happen?  You wanna meditate, do you do this whenever?  Or regularly?  No difference here.

Go deeply into the experience and dwell there, you can change and it can change and things won't be the same-old same-old any more, the grin on your face becomes infectious and people start asking you what's up with all this.:awesomenod:

:peace:PS


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 

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Invisiblejoemolloy
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #14362545 - 04/27/11 05:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

But don't make the common mistake of thinking it's all delusional, because indeed you can retain those insights.  It won't happen the first time, maybe not the tenth time either, but keep at it and eventually you'll ratchet the wheel along enough to where your shroomed mind and your normal mind intersect well enough to keep the understanding intact.  I think most people give up too early, they get the great thoughts and all that and then they lose it and think "well that's all there is to that."  No, it's not all there is to that, don't make that mistake.




At what point do you give up the chase?  Keep on trucking and eventually it'll hit?  So with perseverance and good intentions and careful attention, it'll finally stick to the ribs, this information or state of mind of which ye seek? How do you recognize It?  You know It while tripping, and you know It ain't when you're not.

Quote:

You get people who go all anti-this and anti-that about it as well, 'cause it didn't work for them.  But ask yourself, how much effort did they ever put into it?  Did they think the show was all staged for their own personal benefit? Just sayin', you get out of it what you put into it, nothing more, nothing less.




So some trippers who seek change in their lives just didn't try hard enough?  They didn't put enough into it?  They need to work a bit harder, after all, it won't just land on their lap.  It kind of sounds like a Christian telling someone they didn't open their heart enough for Jesus to come in.  Their prayers weren't sincere, so how could Jesus be expected to answer?  Read the Bible with the heart, not the mind. 

There's an interesting parallel logic here.  But I guess there should be as spirituality, mysticism, and religion are just being interchanged.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: joemolloy]
    #14362569 - 04/27/11 05:43 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

There's a lot of roadkill running around. :zombie2:

And like they say, you can know Jesus, but you can't have Jesus.:jesus::laugh2:

:peace:PS


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 

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Offlinestrangetimez
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #14364872 - 04/28/11 01:32 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

For me much of the mushroom "Mystique" has been the promise of a change of perception and unveiling of some mystical entanglement or hidden truth. After reading this thread it seems to me this is all an illusion and it saddens me slightly. Heres hoping you guys are wrong because Im hoping to pick some up tomorrow for the first time and I dont want to be let down. Great thread either way.

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Offlinepuhbrox
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: strangetimez]
    #14364942 - 04/28/11 01:59 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

strangetimez said:
For me much of the mushroom "Mystique" has been the promise of a change of perception and unveiling of some mystical entanglement or hidden truth. After reading this thread it seems to me this is all an illusion and it saddens me slightly.




Shrooms are good at giving you revelations, enlightenment, and a different lens to look through at what we call "reality". There is a chance of discovering a hidden truth in any drug related experience. It will most likely be about yourself or life in general. Unless your really smart and discover DNA like that dude did while on LSD.

Try to remember the most significant thing about your trip and interpret however you like.:wink:


--------------------
"Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn... he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..."

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OfflinePsychonautsLog
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: strangetimez]
    #14364947 - 04/28/11 02:01 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

1. Permanent change happened to me through psychedelics already after the very first trip. There was an insight, that I should treat my mother better. Well, I waited a full half year till I asked her, if she had perceived some change in my behavior. She stated after a while of thinking, that I was more caring, helpful and less easily upset. I had changed and it was permanent for the better. So change is possible, yet not every trip leads to it.

2. The set and the setting is important for positive change to happen after a trip. The trip starts long before the substance is taken and will last long after the last molecule has left the body. You should know your questions and issues before, deepening them through meditation and (if you are a believer) through prayer. That prepares the consciousness for the reception of the spiritual seed. After the seed is planted during the experience, it needs to be nurtured after the trip.

3. There is no warranty for lasting experience and permanent change through psychedelics, yet if you are longing for growth-change and if you create a space in your consciousness for it to happen, it certainly will manifest in your life-reality one way or the other.


--------------------
Psychonaut And Astronaut Are The Ambassadors Of The Future! :mushroom2:

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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Knowledge lost after mushroom trip [Re: strangetimez]
    #14366390 - 04/28/11 11:23 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

For me much of the mushroom "Mystique" has been the promise of a change of perception and unveiling of some mystical entanglement or hidden truth.




This is very much an individual thing.  As you can see, there are always people around who will tell you all your insights are rubbish.  I got to hear John Lily speak at UO in Eugene OR in the early 80's, about psychedelic research and what he was up to with flotation tanks, dolphin research,  and what he called "vitamin K" (no points for guessing what it was).  The movie "Altered States" had just come out and though it's depiction was laughable regarding what actually happens, of course somebody in the audience had to bring it up. :picard:

After dismissing that somebody else asked what would happen if a person who didn't expect any of the more profound effects took the drugs (keep in mind some of this was about the so-called dark government "research" programs).  Lily smiled a bit and said, "Absolutely nothing."

That's why I say you get out of them what you put into them.  You will experience changes in perception.  You may experience revelations and mystical entanglement.  How you interpret that will make a huge difference.  If you're incapable of integrating more esoteric experiences you'll just call them rubbish.  If you get it - then it's a much different experience and one with great potential for change. :grin:

:peace:PS


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 

Edited by PrimalSoup (04/28/11 11:35 AM)

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