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jimbotron
Patty-Cake Enthusiast



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Pass the popcorn
#14360248 - 04/27/11 09:39 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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There are two possibilities for what happens next.
One is that a red-faced Birther movement will sheepishly slink away and commit seppuku.
The other is that they will be committed (pun intended) to the cause and double down on the crazy.
FORGED! WHERE'S THE DOCTOR NOW? OH, HE'S DEAD? WELL HOW CONVEEEENIENT! AND THIS ONE DOESN'T SAY "BIRTH CERTIFICATE" AT THE TOP, EITHER!!!
The previous position that "if he just released it, we'd all shut up" will go down the memory hole. Mark my words...
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wow
Lurking master



Registered: 07/27/06
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Loc: Cloud 9
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Re: Pass the popcorn [Re: jimbotron]
#14360303 - 04/27/11 09:51 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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my birth certificate looks nothing like that but anyways... who cares.. what cha gon do anyways?
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Pass the popcorn [Re: jimbotron]
#14360364 - 04/27/11 10:06 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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From the left-leaning AP:
Quote:
Responding to critics' relentless claims, President Barack Obama on Wednesday produced a detailed Hawaii birth certificate in an extraordinary attempt to bury the issue of where he was born and confirm his legitimacy to hold office. He declared, "We do not have time for this kind of silliness."
How is producing a birth certificate "extraordinary"? If he had the document, why didn't he produce it two years ago and stifle the issue before it began? I've always assumed his birth was in Hawaii based upon statements made by the Hawaii Governor and based upon birth announcements in the news papers, but I really wonder why Obama was so stubborn about proving it. I suspect he liked the debate as it gave something to distract both the otards and the birthers.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



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Re: Pass the popcorn [Re: Seuss]
#14360443 - 04/27/11 10:29 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Eh, I still wouldn't have.
When was the last time you heard a President asked for his birth certificate?
Did Bush produce his?
Clinton?
Bush Sr?
Why did Obama *need* to produce his? Because some whack-job Republicans wanted him to?
Where does that end? When does that become an invasion of privacy? I want Sarah Palin to release records showing that Trig was actually her baby. Should she have to do so?
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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> Why did Obama *need* to produce his?
To end the countless wasted hours people put into stirring up controversy against the President. Personally, I believe that anybody running for President should have to prove they are a citizen since citizenship is a requirement outlined in the Constitution.
I'm not claiming that Obama was legally required to produce anything... I just feel that he helped fuel the "bad blood" by being so stubborn over something trivial.
> I want Sarah Palin to release records showing that Trig was actually her baby.
This has nothing to do with the requirements outlined in the Constitution for holding the office of President. If she is running, then she should be required to prove that she is a citizen and that she is old enough. Beyond that, no, her privacy outweighs the public's need to know.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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The bleat about Obama's birth certificate originated with the Hillary Clinton campaign. The more time that he didn't produce it the more people wondered why. And yes, other candidates and Presidents have had their birth questioned. Most recently Obama's opponent John McCain, who was born in the Panama Canal zone. Finally, I'm not sure Donald Trump is even a Republican yet unless he recently registered. He certainly hasn't been one for long.
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JT


Registered: 02/28/07
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The sarah palin argument has no hold because it doesn't fall under the constitutional requirement for the president to be a natural uscitizen. As far as bush and all the other presidents go, there wasn't any question as to their birth so it never came up.
Obama set the precedent because it's the first time the question has really arisen. Now that he's cleared it up, I hope everyone will just drop it. However, you can bet that from now on any president on either side of the fence will be compelled to provide their certificate as well. For someone with that much power, and since it's specified in the constitution explicitly, I see this as a good thing and not an invasion of privacy.
But yeah, drop this shit. I could understand the argument at least about him not showing his long cert, but making these new claims is just dumb imo. Case closed.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



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Re: Pass the popcorn [Re: Seuss]
#14360546 - 04/27/11 10:58 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: This has nothing to do with the requirements outlined in the Constitution for holding the office of President. If she is running, then she should be required to prove that she is a citizen and that she is old enough. Beyond that, no, her privacy outweighs the public's need to know.
Didn't Obama's previously released Certificate of Live Birth do this?
This was released years ago and is recognized in Hawaii as a de-facto birth certificate.
But still the controversy raged. I doubt it will end now.
Republicans are intractable on the issue. As I said, I wouldn't have released it even now. All the Republicans are doing is making themselves look even more petty and unconcerned with the actual problems of the country.
And I could just choke Rance Preibus, the head of the Republican Party.
Quote:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/daywatch/sns-ap-us-obama-birth-certificate,0,4371850.story
In a statement after Obama spoke, Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus called the issue a distraction — and yet blamed Obama for playing campaign politics by addressing it.
"The president ought to spend his time getting serious about repairing our economy," Priebus said. "Unfortunately his campaign politics and talk about birth certificates is distracting him from our number one priority — our economy."
HIS TALK? What a shameful piece of political revisionism.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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He didn't say "his talk".
He said "his campaign politics and talk about......is distracting him". That sentence does not necessarily parse into "his talk". It could but it doesn't have to.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: He didn't say "his talk".
He said "his campaign politics and talk about......is distracting him". That sentence does not necessarily parse into "his talk". It could but it doesn't have to.
You can read it that way if you'd like. Obama has done his best of ignore the issue for years and received only criticism for it, much of that from the Republican party. Should he have not released the certificate? Is that the stance of Mr. Preibus, and hence the GOP? As I said, I would not have, but I think Mr. Preibus is trying to have it both ways by saying that Obama should not have addressed it while the unwashed masses that he represents are clamoring for Obama to do precisely the opposite.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: He didn't say "his talk".
He said "his campaign politics and talk about......is distracting him". That sentence does not necessarily parse into "his talk". It could but it doesn't have to.
You can read it that way if you'd like. Obama has done his best of ignore the issue for years and received only criticism for it, much of that from the Republican party. Should he have not released the certificate? Is that the stance of Mr. Preibus, and hence the GOP? As I said, I would not have, but I think Mr. Preibus is trying to have it both ways by saying that Obama should not have addressed it while the unwashed masses that he represents are clamoring for Obama to do precisely the opposite.
And I don't think Preibus is saying that Obama was the one doing the talking. Of course, Obama could have ended all that talk years ago, which he should have done. Hillary started it and Obama made it last. Most actual Republican politicians didn't want to have anything to do with it, including even Michelle Bachman. Trump is nobody. He is no more than Lady Gaga. He doesn't speak for the Republican party and though he is trumpeting this as some kind of victory it just makes him look like an idiot.
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jimbotron
Patty-Cake Enthusiast



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Orly Taitz, just now:
Quote:
"In those years ... when they wrote race, they were writing 'Negro' not 'African'. "In those days nobody wrote African as a race, it just wasn't one of the options. It sounds like it would be written today, in the age of political correctness, and not in 1961 when they wrote white or Asian or 'Negro'."
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Pass the popcorn [Re: jimbotron]
#14360814 - 04/27/11 12:12 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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That nut again?
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jimbotron
Patty-Cake Enthusiast



Registered: 02/24/09
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Re: Pass the popcorn [Re: Seuss]
#14360821 - 04/27/11 12:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:To end the countless wasted hours people put into stirring up controversy against the President.
Why the fuck is this is a controversy? Are you this obtuse?
If I say that you raped and murdered an infant, do you have to provide proof to contrary because it's 'out there' and it's a 'controversy'? Of course not.
Why does Obama have to 'prove' that he was born here? Why is anyone talking about this at all?
BECAUSE HE'S BLACK. BECAUSE THE BIRTHERS ARE RACISTS. IF THEY WERE SO TERRIFIED ABOUT FOREIGNERS SNEAKING ONTO THE BALLOT THEN EVERY OTHER PRESIDENT WOULD HAVE FACED THE SAME ALLEGATIONS. THIS IS THE ONLY GODDAMN DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HIM AND THEM. HE'S 'A NIGGER' TO THE BIRTHERS AND THEY HATE HIM. DEAL WITH IT.
(inb4 "Donald Trump says he has a good relationship with 'the blacks' so you're a liar")
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Pass the popcorn [Re: jimbotron]
#14360855 - 04/27/11 12:28 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
jimbotron said:
Quote:
Seuss said:To end the countless wasted hours people put into stirring up controversy against the President.
Why the fuck is this is a controversy? Are you this obtuse?
If I say that you raped and murdered an infant, do you have to provide proof to contrary because it's 'out there' and it's a 'controversy'? Of course not.
Why does Obama have to 'prove' that he was born here? Why is anyone talking about this at all?
BECAUSE HE'S BLACK. BECAUSE THE BIRTHERS ARE RACISTS. IF THEY WERE SO CONCERNED WITH FOREIGNERS SNEAKING ONTO THE BALLOT THEN EVERY OTHER PRESIDENT WOULD HAVE FACED THE SAME SCRUTINY. THIS IS THE ONLY GODDAMN DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HIM AND THEM. HE'S 'A NIGGER' TO THE BIRTHERS AND THEY HATE HIM. DEAL WITH IT.
That's pretty stupid. As I pointed out it was Democrats who started the issue. And as I also pointed out John fucking McCain had to deal with similar nonsense about being born in the canal zone. Stick your fingers in your ears and go "LALALA I'm not listening."
I do hate the commie cunt, though, but not because he is, as you so delicately describe him, "a nigger". And shouldn't every Presidential candidate have to prove their legal standing to run? Obama let this run as long as he thought it was helping him. As soon as he didn't think that anymore he caved. http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2011/04/028909.php
Quote:
Today, President Obama finally released his "long-form," or official, birth certificate. There has never been any doubt about the fact that Obama was born in Honolulu. The local newspapers reported it; case closed. Therefore, he is a natural-born American citizen and is eligible for the presidency.
The mystery has always been, why was Obama so reluctant to release his long-form birth certificate? There have been two possible explanations: 1) the birth certificate contains some embarrassing information that Obama would prefer not to make public; or 2) he thought the "birther" controversy was hurting Republicans, and therefore wanted to keep it going.
I don't see anything embarrassing about it. That suggests that Obama was keeping it out of sight on the theory that it was a distraction to Republicans that made some of them look bad with independents. That hypothesis is consistent with the timing of the release of the birth certificate: polls in recent weeks have shown that the "issue" was apparently hurting Obama, as astonishingly large numbers of Americans told pollsters that they doubted whether Obama was born in the U.S. So he decided to call the game off. That's how it looks to me, anyway.
Now we can get back to serious issues, like the federal debt and the price of gasoline.
I sure would like to know how the fucking moron got into Columbia and Harvard Law. I thought those schools were supposed to be selective.
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JT


Registered: 02/28/07
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meh...who cares how he got into those schools. it has no relevance. everyone knows bush's dad got him into college and bush was a C student.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Pass the popcorn [Re: JT]
#14361052 - 04/27/11 01:18 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
JT said: meh...who cares how he got into those schools. it has no relevance. everyone knows bush's dad got him into college and bush was a C student.
Yep. Preferences. Both of them. But Bush got hammered for decades because of it. Why not Obama?
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
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> Why the fuck is this is a controversy? Are you this obtuse?
Easy there, Jimbo. Reading comprehension isn't your strong point, is it?
> Why does Obama have to 'prove' that he was born here?
He doesn't. My gripe is that there were a lot of people questioning the legitimacy of the President and that he could have easily ended that questioning yet he chose not to do so.
> BECAUSE HE'S BLACK. BECAUSE THE BIRTHERS ARE RACISTS.
You seem to be the racist one... nobody else is bringing up race, except you. What does his skin color have to do with anything. I guess all those people that demanded John McCain's birth certificate because he was born in Panama are racist as well? Not everybody in the world is worried about skin color the way you seem to be, Jimbo.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



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Re: Pass the popcorn [Re: Seuss]
#14361238 - 04/27/11 01:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:
How is producing a birth certificate "extraordinary"? If he had the document, why didn't he produce it two years ago and stifle the issue before it began?
He did. He released the one we all carry(so-called short form) and not one single official from the Dept of Records in Hawaii came forward to say it was a fake. It was and is a non-issue.
Obviously it's not over. The birthers have already switched gears to attack his qualifications for entrance to college, and at least one nutjob is saying "natural born" means both parents must be citizens. It's nonsense, but Fox is giving it lots of airtime.
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
JT said: meh...who cares how he got into those schools. it has no relevance. everyone knows bush's dad got him into college and bush was a C student.
Yep. Preferences. Both of them. But Bush got hammered for decades because of it. Why not Obama?
Please hammer Obama for graduating magna cum laude from Harvard Law School. RR
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
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> Obviously it's not over.
I wish it would end... I have no love for Obama, but this birther crap gets as old as the WTC conspiracy BS. Focus on the harm the idiot in office has done. There is more than enough of that to go around.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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This will all now pass as gas. A broken wind, malodorous yet thankfully brief. Obama played it for as long as he thought he could use it. Now it is done.
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jimbotron
Patty-Cake Enthusiast



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http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/weigel/archive/2011/04/27/birther-legislation-in-texas-still-a-go.aspx
Quote:
Texas state legislator Leo Berman, a Republican, has introduced a bill that would require proof of citizenship from presidential candidates. It's one of many such bills in the states. And according to Sharon Guthrie, Berman's legislative director, the legislation is still needed and the long-form birth certificate released by the White House today does not satisfy its requirements. "What I've seen online, what they produced today, still says certificate of live birth across the top," she told me. And she's right. But why isn't that just a nomenclature issue? Why does it matter? "We want to see a 'birth certificate,'" Guthrie explained. "The one that we have that says 'birth certificate' is from Mombassa, Kenya, with his footprint on it. He has still not produced an American birth certificate."
Nope.
I'll just note that most people misunderstand the idea behind the Big Lie. Goebbels didn't say that people will believe just anything if it's repeated enough. He said that it needed to be a lie of such consequence that learning the truth, and admitting that they believed such a lie, would be too psychologically traumatic to ever happen.
The birthers will double down on the crazy. After all, there has never been a single shred of evidence to support their delusions, and yet their delusions remain. They wouldn't accept a live videotape at this point.
And the Republicans desperately need their votes.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Pass the popcorn [Re: jimbotron]
#14362564 - 04/27/11 05:42 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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That is actually an effort to stop the Obama perpetuated drama over his place of birth. One which, I might add, was begun by the Hillary Clinton campaign.
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GI_Luvmoney
Vote Republican!


Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 939
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Edited by GI_Luvmoney (05/22/11 04:20 PM)
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Pass the popcorn [Re: Seuss]
#14494803 - 05/22/11 04:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: The bleat about Obama's birth certificate originated with the Hillary Clinton campaign. The more time that he didn't produce it the more people wondered why. And yes, other candidates and Presidents have had their birth questioned. Most recently Obama's opponent John McCain, who was born in the Panama Canal zone. Finally, I'm not sure Donald Trump is even a Republican yet unless he recently registered. He certainly hasn't been one for long.
Kind of a silly comment I'd say. Registering as such with your state has nothing, or should have nothing, to do with what party you claim allegiance to, if any.
In my state you don't even register as a party, just ask for whatever ballot you want, which is what I do.Quote:
Seuss said: > Obviously it's not over.
I wish it would end... I have no love for Obama, but this birther crap gets as old as the WTC conspiracy BS. Focus on the harm the idiot in office has done. There is more than enough of that to go around.
It was stupid even before the release of the birth certificate. I can only assume your right that he refused to release the certificate previously as it helped stoke the crazies and the supporters.
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GI_Luvmoney
Vote Republican!


Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 939
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Re: Pass the popcorn [Re: johnm214]
#14494862 - 05/22/11 04:37 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Pass the popcorn [Re: johnm214]
#14494940 - 05/22/11 04:54 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: The bleat about Obama's birth certificate originated with the Hillary Clinton campaign. The more time that he didn't produce it the more people wondered why. And yes, other candidates and Presidents have had their birth questioned. Most recently Obama's opponent John McCain, who was born in the Panama Canal zone. Finally, I'm not sure Donald Trump is even a Republican yet unless he recently registered. He certainly hasn't been one for long.
Kind of a silly comment I'd say. Registering as such with your state has nothing, or should have nothing, to do with what party you claim allegiance to, if any.
In my state you don't even register as a party, just ask for whatever ballot you want, which is what I do.
That, of course, only refers to voting and not running as a candidate. In my state you have to register with the party to even vote in the primary and I think it is idiotic to allow open participation in primaries. Too much opportunity for mischief. I'm not even sure what state Trump lives in and I don't give a fuck. He isn't running.
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens



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His mom was 18 when she gave birth to him. What a slut?
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
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The long form also has a lot of discrepancies And expert have said it's been photoshopped.
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communeart


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it's just too crazy to be real, this is why i don't give a fuck about the world trade center being an inside job, the power that be will always rule by proxy, i.e. letting al-qaeda do the whole thing. They are far too good at controlling the world to do so blatantly stupid things, then again, i don't think they are this good at manipulating masses.
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Quote:
communeart said: then again, i don't think they are this good at manipulating masses.
People, especially the upper class have studied human consciousness and manipulation for literally ten thousand years. There are comprehensive occult societies that have been dedicated to this goal for a looooooooooooooong time. Manipulation the masses is the primary goal of leaders and elites,
The whole "they could never be smart enough" argument is moot.
People who think that probably just aren't smart enough themselves.
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communeart


Registered: 12/04/06
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Re: Pass the popcorn [Re: Shins]
#14495283 - 05/22/11 05:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
People, especially the upper class have studied human consciousness and manipulation for literally ten thousand years. There are comprehensive occult societies that have been dedicated to this goal for a looooooooooooooong time. Manipulation the masses is the primary goal of leaders and elites,
The whole "they could never be smart enough" argument is moot.
People who think that probably just aren't smart enough themselves.
I didn't mean they could never be smart enough, i meant that they make too many mistakes to be as good as you make it out to be, they are stupid humans just like we are, even if they studied human consciousness to it's every details their science is not perfect. Sometime i feel like the consciousness itself is studied, but an amateur is going through the books and applying it. I think the main point of leaders and elite is to control the whole parliament, and they do it exactly this way.
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
johnm214 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: The bleat about Obama's birth certificate originated with the Hillary Clinton campaign. The more time that he didn't produce it the more people wondered why. And yes, other candidates and Presidents have had their birth questioned. Most recently Obama's opponent John McCain, who was born in the Panama Canal zone. Finally, I'm not sure Donald Trump is even a Republican yet unless he recently registered. He certainly hasn't been one for long.
Kind of a silly comment I'd say. Registering as such with your state has nothing, or should have nothing, to do with what party you claim allegiance to, if any.
In my state you don't even register as a party, just ask for whatever ballot you want, which is what I do.
That, of course, only refers to voting and not running as a candidate. In my state you have to register with the party to even vote in the primary and I think it is idiotic to allow open participation in primaries. Too much opportunity for mischief. I'm not even sure what state Trump lives in and I don't give a fuck. He isn't running.
By "register with the party" you mean state your party affiliation to the state, correct?
I see no reason why open primaries are a problem. I doubt that should even be a government function when your ballot is limited to one party. If parties don't want people to have equal access to the government's selection mechanism than they can nominate their candidates themselves. If they want the government to pay for it, it should be open to all.
Either way the closed primaries are a bit silly in any case, in my opinion, given it only requires some earlier request for a ballot than on election day.
Additionally, these kinds of systems seem to entrench the defacto duopoly in american politics to our collective disadvantage- using government resources to perform the party's function. The election system should, rightly, be party agnostic with no consideration given to them at all.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Pass the popcorn [Re: johnm214]
#14498304 - 05/23/11 10:14 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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johnm214 said:
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zappaisgod said:
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johnm214 said:
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zappaisgod said: The bleat about Obama's birth certificate originated with the Hillary Clinton campaign. The more time that he didn't produce it the more people wondered why. And yes, other candidates and Presidents have had their birth questioned. Most recently Obama's opponent John McCain, who was born in the Panama Canal zone. Finally, I'm not sure Donald Trump is even a Republican yet unless he recently registered. He certainly hasn't been one for long.
Kind of a silly comment I'd say. Registering as such with your state has nothing, or should have nothing, to do with what party you claim allegiance to, if any.
In my state you don't even register as a party, just ask for whatever ballot you want, which is what I do.
That, of course, only refers to voting and not running as a candidate. In my state you have to register with the party to even vote in the primary and I think it is idiotic to allow open participation in primaries. Too much opportunity for mischief. I'm not even sure what state Trump lives in and I don't give a fuck. He isn't running.
By "register with the party" you mean state your party affiliation to the state, correct?
State in writing ahead of time, yes.Quote:
I see no reason why open primaries are a problem. I doubt that should even be a government function when your ballot is limited to one party. If parties don't want people to have equal access to the government's selection mechanism than they can nominate their candidates themselves. If they want the government to pay for it, it should be open to all.
They do have equal access, they just have to sign up ahead of time. Like voter registration in the general election. You cannot register on the day of the election. It's up to the parties in the states whether they want open primaries or not. I prefer closed. Say you have an unopposed incumbent from one party and voters who prefer that person flood the opposition primary to nominate the weakest candidate. I find that a potential problem. Closed primaries don't entirely eliminate that but they do make it harder. Quote:
Either way the closed primaries are a bit silly in any case, in my opinion, given it only requires some earlier request for a ballot than on election day.
Additionally, these kinds of systems seem to entrench the defacto duopoly in american politics to our collective disadvantage- using government resources to perform the party's function. The election system should, rightly, be party agnostic with no consideration given to them at all.
Other parties have primaries, too, and the government pays to tally those votes as well.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 24 days
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Like I said in another thread last week...
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We have open primaries in Wisconsin and it's a huge clusterfuck.
There are always campaigns by Democrats to vote in the Republican primary and vice versa in order to try to get the candidate you consider easier to defeat as your opponent in the general election.
It almost always happens, there is no real way to tell what kind of effect it has, but it happens.
This is why you need to register as one or the other before you vote in the primary. It's really a good law, I wish we had it here...
Open primaries kind of suck. That said, we also have same-day registration here, which I love. At least, we do currently. The newly elected Republican administration seems to consider it part of their "mandate" to suppress the vote by eliminating same-day registration in order to combat vote fraud. Of course, nobody has any proof that said fraud is actually taking place, but facts schmacts, right?
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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GI_Luvmoney
Vote Republican!


Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 939
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 3,060
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Quote:
GI_Luvmoney said: Photoshop Expert And Author Mara Zebest Declares That Obama's Latest Hawaiian Birth Certificate Is A Complete Phony... http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=obama+mara+zebest&cp=17&pq=obama%20births%20certificate%20%20is%20a%20forgery%20globe&pf=p&sclient=psy&source=hp&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=obama+mara+zebest&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=e4d813b43c7d221c
Man, I can't believe I clicked on that. That was beyond a doubt, the shittiest article I've ever tried to read. Anyone who quotes the globe (it isn't even worth using the shift key on) needs to go back to first grade.

Also, why the hell did you post a link to google search results? Were you trying as hard as possible to seem like a moron?
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GI_Luvmoney
Vote Republican!


Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 939
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Re: Pass the popcorn [Re: ChuangTzu]
#14500045 - 05/23/11 04:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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You obviously have poor reading skills.
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 3,060
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Quote:
GI_Luvmoney said: You obviously have poor reading skills.
You obviously have poor everything skills.
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GI_Luvmoney
Vote Republican!


Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 939
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Re: Pass the popcorn [Re: ChuangTzu]
#14510683 - 05/25/11 04:21 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Edited by GI_Luvmoney (05/25/11 04:24 PM)
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jimbotron
Patty-Cake Enthusiast



Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 2,324
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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jimbotron said: The birthers will double down on the crazy.

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GI_Luvmoney said: More people will read my links that you can't suppress and vote Republican.
   
Preach it, brother. Me, I'll go one step further in my pledge to join Sarah Palin's primary campaign: I'll work for her while wearing a "Where's the ORIGINAL long form birth certificate with a FOOTPRINT?" T-shirt.
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GI_Luvmoney
Vote Republican!


Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 939
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Re: Pass the popcorn [Re: jimbotron]
#14521619 - 05/27/11 03:22 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Keep suffering. I'm enjoying it. Here's some more proof that Obummer commited the biggest fraud in US history.
"Swiftboat” Author Jerome Corsi To File Criminal Charges Against White House For Allegedly Producing Fake Obama Birth Certificate – With Video May 25th, 2011 (14) Posted By Pat Dollard.
Jerome Corsi has told a Cincinnati radio station that he is preparing to file criminal charges against the White House for producing a fraudulent birth certificate, as the controversial author of Where’s the Birth Certificate? closes in on the people within Obama’s inner circle he claims were behind the hoax.
“We believe the birth records released by Barack Obama on April 27th, the so called long form birth certificate, is fraudulent,” Corsi told radio host Bill Cunningham.
“I’m working on filing criminal charges on the White House, I think there will be criminal charges filed very soon for having fraudulently produced a birth certificate,” said Corsi, adding that he would seek an FBI investigation.
Corsi re-affirmed the fact that he was close to identifying the individual who played a key role in forging the birth certificate, as well as the source document which the White House used to create the composite fake.
According to The Birther Report, the Clear Channel radio station on which Corsi appeared, 700 WLW later scrubbed the interview from their audio archives, a claim that was also carried by World Net Daily. The You Tube video above was made by a listener.
Clear Channel was also behind the removal of a billboard that was part of a World Net Daily campaign to bring attention to the birther issue in November 2009.
As we reported yesterday, Corsi is closing in on the people within Obama’s inner circle who were responsible for creating the fraudulent document that was released by the White House in electronic format and contains a plethora of errors and clear evidence of manipulation.
“I’m pretty well on the trail of linking the characteristics of this document to someone who’s going to have a lot of explaining to do,” said Corsi, adding that he was “hot on the trail” of one individual who “may have had a hand in this,” and that his identity would be released this week.
In a new development, WND reports that Obama’s Social Security number was issued in Connecticut, a state in which he never lived.
“The first three digits of Obama’s SSN are 042. That code of 042 falls within the range of numbers for Connecticut, which according to the Social Security Administration has been 040 through 049,” states the report.
“There is obviously a case of fraud going on here,” says Ohio licensed private investigator Susan Daniels. “In 15 years of having a private investigator’s license in Ohio, I’ve never seen the Social Security Administration make a mistake of issuing a Connecticut Social Security number to a person who lived in Hawaii. There is no family connection that would appear to explain the anomaly.”
Daniels said that Obama decided to hide his identity in the 80′s.
http://patdollard.com/2011/05/swiftboat-author-jerome-corsi-to-file-criminal-charges-against-white-house-for-producing-fake-obama-birth-certificate-with-video/
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GI_Luvmoney
Vote Republican!


Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 939
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GI_Luvmoney
Vote Republican!


Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 939
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Ex-CIA: 'Forged document' released as birth certificate Gen. Paul Vallely: Congress afraid to probe 'possible felony' over fears of 'black backlash'
Up America, a national security expert and Fox News contributor, says the "Certificate of Live Birth" released in April by the White House as "proof positive" of President Obama's Hawaiian birth is a forgery, but the FBI is covering the fraud
and no one in Congress is willing to tackle the situation because of fears of a "black backlash" if the failings of the nation's first black president are revealed.
In an interview today with Greg Corombos for WND, Vallely, who previously has expressed concerns about whether the Obama administration is in violation of the U.S. Constitution, said, "His actual birth certificate has never been found in
Hawaii nor released from Hawaii hospital there, Kapiolani hospital there, if it in fact did exist."
"We've had three CIA agents, retired, and some of their analytical associates look at it, and all came to the same conclusion, that even the long-form was a forged document," Vallely said.
"No members of Congress will take this on. The word I get out of Washington is that they don't want to challenge this because it would be in fact a felony offense and in some cases may be even treasonous and [they are] afraid of a black backlash from
some of the urban areas," Vallely said.
fact is a legitimate president under Article 2 and he is a born U.S. citizen."
The departments of government designed to uncover wrongdoing, in this case, are on the wrong side, he said.
"I think they're (the FBI) covering for this administration. I think the corruption within this administration is so proliferated through the agencies of government now, we're just in a bad situation here. I think the lack of confidence in our government is growing and many feel that not only all the members of Congress but even our courts are corrupted at this time," he said.
The questions over Obama's eligibility to occupy the Oval Office under the requirements in the Constitution that call for a "natural born citizen" have been raised since before he was elected.
Numerous lawsuits have been filed and challenges organized but none have uncovered Obama's documentation. For most of the past few years, his supporters relied on an online image of a Hawaiian short-form "Certification of Live Birth" as proof of his Hawaiian birth, claiming it was the only documentation available from the state.
However, just as the New York Times best-seller, "Where's the Birth Certificate: The Case that Barack Obama is not Eligible to be President," by Jerome Corsi, Ph.D., was about to be released, Obama dispatched a private attorney to Hawaii to fetch the supposed long-form "Certificate of Live Birth" and explained that the record now would include the full documentation available from Hawaii.
The original hard-copy birth document, whatever it actually is, has never been seen by the public.
birth certificate released by the White House on April 27 is a forgery. "That former CIA agents are beginning to weigh in on the White House forgery is important. Too many experts remain afraid to speak out about what is an obvious
forgery, fearful that openly speaking out against Obama will hurt their income. That Gen. Vallely has now spoken out shows the cracks are widening around the White House façade that the Obama birth certificate is a legitimate document."
He said, "Vallely is right in saying that millions of Americans are still trying to find out who Barack Obama is.
"The cover-up in Hawaii is still continuing. Every professional forensic document examiner knows the best evidence of the Obama long-form birth certificate is not the electronic Adobe file released on the White House website, but the original document the Hawaii DOH is still hiding in its vault, unwilling to let the public see it with their own eyes. Why won't the White House allow a team of independent professional
forensic document examiners inspect and authenticate the original birth certificate
document? It makes no sense — unless of course there is no long-form birth
certificate in the Hawaii DOH vault."
When Obama released the purported long-form certificate, officials in the Hawaii
Department of Health and governor's office refused to simply confirm to WND that the
image being presented by Obama was an accurate representation of the records
maintained by the state.
Vallely said the document should "thoroughly be analyzed by resident FBI officials and analysts to determine if in fact and validate whether it's forged or real."
"One of the apparent flaws in that document was they listed Kenya as the place of birth of Obama's father, but Kenya was not an established country at that time," he noted.
"There's still a lot of controversy about it, and some of us would just like to have this thing clearly authenticated."
He also cited one of the many issues raised by document experts who have challenged the "birth certificate's" authenticity – the layering in the Adobe computer file.
And Vallely said he knows some would not be satisfied with anything the Obama administration would release, which is a problem, in itself, for the White House.
"That's true, because they don't believe he is eligible. You have a fairly growing contingent out there."
Vallely also made similar statements in an online radio program in which he supported Lakin, the Army doctor who refused orders because neither the military nor the White House would doinvestigators go over the birth certificate that was
produced and by far, 10 out of 10 have said it's a forgery. So we still have that corruptness going on in the White House. There's a great number of organizations and people still trying to find out who Barack Obama is, where he was born, what his
legitimacy is as president of the United States. We know for sure that the Constitution has been violated in Article 2, particularly when you look at the natural-born status."
Only one day earlier, officials in the state of Hawaii claimed that the original of the Obama 'birth certificate' document – the document posted online by the White House – remains "confidential" and cannot be produced in response to a subpoena in a
lawsuit over Obama's legitimacy.
The image released by Obama has been challenged by a number of document imaging analysts as a fraud, and it doesn't align with descriptions of it by Obama supporters.
For instance, two weeks before Obama finally released his "long-form birth certificate," Hawaii's former Health Department chief Chiyome Fukino – the one official who claimed to have examined the original birth document under lock and key
in Hawaii – was interviewed by NBC News' national investigative correspondent Michael Isikoff, who reported that Fukino told him she had seen the original birth certificate and that it was "half typed and half handwritten."
However, the document released by the White House was entirely typed. Only the signatures and two dates at the very bottom were "handwritten." What Fukino described apparently is a different document from what Obama released to the public.
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=311433Leavenworth and only recently was released. His
comments start at about 3:30 of the YouTube video:
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GI_Luvmoney
Vote Republican!


Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 939
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