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InvisibleDiploidM
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SETI Project Stopped * 1
    #14359895 - 04/27/11 07:50 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)



Lack Of Funding Puts SETI Into Hibernation

Posted on: Wednesday, 27 April 2011, 05:55 CDT

The SETI Institute has put its $50 million Allen Telescope Array (ATA) into hibernation because the organization is unable to attract the $5m investment it needs to fund operation of the vast radio dishes that search the universe for extraterrestrial life.

In an email sent last Friday to ATA private donors, SETI Institute CEO Tom Pierson described the recent decision by University of California at Berkeley, which oversees daily operations at the ATA, to suspend operations of the Hat Creek Radio Observatory (HCRO), where the project is located.

Pierson said there were "serious challenges" in finding operating funds, and that beginning this week the organization's brand new ATA would be placed into hibernation.

"This means that the equipment is unavailable for normal observations and is being maintained in a safe state by a significantly reduced staff," he wrote in the email.

SETI, which stands for Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, is the scientific institute made famous in Carl Sagan's novel Contact.  The organization has spent half a century searching the universe for radio signals from deep space that might indicate we are not alone.

The financial problems specifically involve the operation of the ATA, a set of radio dishes dedicated to searching for alien signals.

Although the ATA was paid for by the SETI Institute, it is managed and operated by the radio astronomy lab of the University of California at Berkeley.

SETI senior astronomer Seth Shostak said the facility needs about $2m-$3m a year to function, and the scientists need an additional $5m to fund a two-year project to listen for possible radio signals coming from the exoplanets found by NASA’s Kepler satellite.

Until now, the funds needed to operate the observatory have come from a combination of private donations, the U.S. National Science Foundation (NSF) and the state government of California.

However, funding from the NSF has been reduced to roughly a tenth of its former level, while growing budget shortfalls in the state of California have severely cut the amount of state funds available for support of the HCRO site.

"As it happens, Berkeley's budget is way down – the state of California is in terrible financial circumstances because of the economic downturn," Shostak told the Guardian.

"Consequently, they don't have the money to keep the doors open and pay the electric bills and pay the staff at the antenna. And we don't either, because we run our SETI projects mostly based on private donations, and those are down as well."

There is some hope of raising the money through working with the U.S. Air Force on future projects, Pierson said.  One idea being considered is a collaborative project between the ATA and the USAF's space surveillance network to track space debris, which can damage satellites and space vehicles.

However, given impending cuts in federal funding for the U.S. military, such a plan is uncertain.

"The other possibility is that private donations could bring the telescope back to life and keep it working," Shostak said.

The ATA is the SETI Institute's largest facility, and its only dedicated one. Its shutdown means astronomers will need to rely on data gathered during downtime from other telescopes, lessening its chances of finding any alien signals.

Additional details about the ATA hibernation and plans to address the situation can be viewed here .

Public donations to help return the ATA operations and support the SETI exploration of the Kepler planets can be made at http://www.seti.org/page.aspx?pid=1574.

RedOrbit


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offline5HTSynaptrip
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Re: SETI Project Stopped [Re: Diploid]
    #14360211 - 04/27/11 09:29 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

It's hard for me to gauge my emotion about this.  Surely it's an amazing idea but when you put aside the fantastic scenario Sagan imagined in "Contact" and think about what SETI could possibly find, it kind of seems wasteful after so many years. 

When you think about the distance that's between galaxies the transmission of radio waves seems like a pretty poor choice for communicating.  We're probably in our infancy still with all aspects of science, there almost certainly is an advanced species out there(anthropic principle) reaching out past their solar system as ardently as we wish to, but I'm sure there are going to be newer, better methods of long range communication developed.

How much shit in space is going to fuck up RF?


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Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge. - My hero, who will be forever remembered, Carl Sagan.



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OfflineFlashmob
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Re: SETI Project Stopped [Re: 5HTSynaptrip]
    #14374845 - 04/29/11 09:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

5 million seems like a paltry amount of money with the trillion dollar figures in the media these days. I can't believe that Art bell or some such can't do a bake sale or other and raise the needed funds.

The problem is seti is a money pit. I don't mean it's a waste and we shouldn't be doing it, quite the opposite. I don't believe aliens are among us but I don't believe for an instant we are alone in the nearly infinite universe. Seti doesn't exactly have an investment return it's money in, lots of research (that has yet to garner the sought after results) out.

Regarding disrupted signals in space.. Many things are so powerful as to overwhelm signals coming from neighbouring galaxies. The radio and television signals coming from earth have broadened to such a point as to carpet whole solar systems by the time they leave ours. Pulsars are huge sources of broad wave radiation. Black holes eat everything and dump out tremendous quantities of x-rays. Add to that a signal from here to mars takes hours, the nearest G type world (we think) is about a million years distant at normal radio transmission speeds.

I totally agree as well regarding all the effort put into the search up till now. I think of my own processor cycles used for naught, all wasted if we now abandon hope of meeting real grey aliens.


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OfflineLightShedder
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Re: SETI Project Stopped [Re: Flashmob]
    #14377118 - 04/30/11 11:26 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

SETI has as much of a chance of finding alien radio-waves in our detection range as a blind man looking for a wedding ring in the pacific ocean.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: SETI Project Stopped [Re: LightShedder]
    #14387544 - 05/02/11 09:17 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

LightShedder said:
SETI has as much of a chance of finding alien radio-waves in our detection range as a blind man looking for a wedding ring in the pacific ocean.




Do you have any reasoning to go along with this decree?


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Invisiblesandi
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Re: SETI Project Stopped [Re: johnm214]
    #14387566 - 05/02/11 09:23 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Just in time for 2012, how convenient!!! :rolleyes:


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OfflineJT
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Re: SETI Project Stopped [Re: sandi]
    #14407156 - 05/05/11 08:04 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

5 million dollars...  yeah, you'd think some billionare would spot them the funds. the co-founder of microsoft, allen whatever, was behind this then denied them any more funding. what's he worth, 20 billion?? oh well.


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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: SETI Project Stopped [Re: JT]
    #14407773 - 05/05/11 10:10 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

What's the story with your avatar anyway?


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OfflineJT
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Re: SETI Project Stopped [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #14407858 - 05/05/11 10:33 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

It's just the old avatar I had when I joined the site. Some random chick from the internets. Maybe I should change it, I've been getting a lot of hate mail with people saying it's kiddy porn even though she's 20 :lol:


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OfflineLightShedder
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Re: SETI Project Stopped [Re: johnm214]
    #14407997 - 05/05/11 11:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

LightShedder said:
SETI has as much of a chance of finding alien radio-waves in our detection range as a blind man looking for a wedding ring in the pacific ocean.




Do you have any reasoning to go along with this decree?





Do you have any reasoning to believe otherwise??

That's a far more appropriate question if your claiming that what I said is not true. Maybe you're not claiming this. Maybe you're just doing the only response you know how to do- demand evidence with every little humorous analogy someone makes.

I'll bet you 25,000 dollars, honest to god, that I could easily find 100 posts of yours, johnm, with that exact style- Demanding evidence when it is unnecessary/impossible. Yet you act like if I can't prove the statement "SETI has as much of a chance of finding alien radio-waves in our detection range as a blind man looking for a wedding ring in the pacific ocean." that it can't be true.

This is what I always find myself saying to you, LIGHTEN UP.


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OfflineOddEye


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Re: SETI Project Stopped [Re: LightShedder]
    #14408153 - 05/05/11 11:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

My personal opinion is stop looking for aliens, this is for another generation. Now we must acquire scientific knowledge, it is far more important. Good riddance imo. (Now if we'd have good reason to believe we'd find some I would be for this!)


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I'm at the highest peak, still glad the meak is understandin' me
Artillery, thoughts of killin' me is just a fantasy
The man in me is ready for war, like Holyfield-Tyson IV


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OfflineJT
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Re: SETI Project Stopped [Re: LightShedder]
    #14408330 - 05/06/11 01:07 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Well they've barely scanned a fraction of the sky so far, and they just got this new telescope cluster. Seems like such a waste.

And why are you getting all over johnm? You're the one that came in making the unsupported claim. You're entitled to your opinion but I think there's a reason the scientists behind the seti program established it. There's a slim chance, and hey, we're talking about a discovery which would permanently change mankind's outlook on everything.

And to the other poster, the program is pretty cheap all things considered. What other kind of life changing research would you do with just 5 million dollars?


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OfflineLightShedder
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Re: SETI Project Stopped [Re: JT]
    #14408484 - 05/06/11 02:13 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

How is the research "life-changing"???

It doesn't change my life.

Btw if you want support for my claim use your own mind. Think about the nearest POSSIBLE life (closest habitable galaxy/planet/star). Then calculate the distance between here and there. Determine the viability of radio-waves being transmitted from here to there or vice-versa. Assuming there IS life at the NEAREST possible location, we've got a very slim chance at communicating with them via SETI.

I think if you had any sense you could conjure that up from my previous post so again lighten up.


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OfflineLightShedder
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Re: SETI Project Stopped [Re: LightShedder]
    #14408488 - 05/06/11 02:14 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

LightShedder said:
SETI has as much of a chance of finding alien radio-waves in our detection range as a blind man looking for a wedding ring in the pacific ocean.




Sorry ms. Foster for my "unsupported claim". Forgive me for involving humor in this VERY SERIOUS SUBJECT for all of you.

I hope your SETI works out.


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OfflineJT
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Re: SETI Project Stopped [Re: LightShedder]
    #14408590 - 05/06/11 03:51 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

We have no chance of communicating to them with seti, it just listens. And idk, if you don't think proof of an alien culture would be life changing, welll...

Maybe the radio waves will be too degraded or whatever for us to detect. I don't know. Asking why you think that evidently is being too serious for you to explain yourself. A lot of scientists think it's worthwhile but maybe they don't know how that stuff works.

Whatever. Stupid thing to argue about. I'm still sad seti got canned.


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: SETI Project Stopped [Re: LightShedder]
    #14408641 - 05/06/11 05:13 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

LightShedder said:
How is the research "life-changing"???

It doesn't change my life.




Research that isn't carried out is never life changing. But I must say agree with your blind-man-wedding-ring statement. When deciding if research projects will be pursued (and funded) an analysis is often made of the cost/returns ratio. Some projects have relatively low costs and almost certain and considerable returns. These are typically projects that deal with the perfection or industrialization of technologies that are relatively mature and can be applied easily. These 'no-brainer' projects are often embraced by commercial organizations on the basis of a business case. Other projects are at the far end of the quadrant and have high costs and extremely uncertain returns. Nobody will invest in those. Then there are projects with high costs and certain and considerable returns. If those returns are especially desirable, it can be decided to pursue them, resulting in projects like CERN and ITER. And then there are projects with low costs and small chances of success. These are usually subject to the whims of the current socio-political climate, and it is in this category that we find SETI. So I expect that SETI, or comparable projects, will keep 'blinking' in the future: sometimes they receive funding from some benefactor, and then the next moment they're put to a halt again. It's just a fact of human life.


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