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teknix
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Registered: 09/16/08
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Re: Ron Paul announces exploratory committee [Re: Le_Canard]
#14365542 - 04/28/11 07:30 AM (13 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
ToiletDuk said: Yes, let's return to the ways of the 1870's when workers had no rights, children worked in factories and the lower class starved due to low wages.
That would and should be up to your state, which you are a part of.
Why do you care about every other state? Do you live there? Should you have a say in how your neighbor lives?
You would have to be completely and utterly ignorant to starve. I worked when I was 14, so what? It's called a work permit or paper route.
If you don't like your wages then find another job or start your own business. Or you can educate yourself, or just grow your own damn food.
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: Ron Paul announces exploratory committee [Re: teknix]
#14365622 - 04/28/11 07:46 AM (13 years, 24 days ago) |
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Yes, but you still went to publicly-funded schools. And I'm talking about kids as young as 5 working there - no schooling whatsoever/ And if they happened to maimed while working around dangerous machinery, they'd get a few bucks for the owners, but were basically SOL. Of course, I'm sure they could've looked for another job, but pickings are slim for a 1-armed 8 year old. Be that as it may, why stop at allowing the states to decide these things? Why not dissolve the entire union and each state can form it's own country.
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teknix
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Re: Ron Paul announces exploratory committee [Re: Le_Canard]
#14365641 - 04/28/11 07:50 AM (13 years, 24 days ago) |
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Well, I highly doubt a 5 year old is going to make a decent laborer, would you hire a 5 year old? Would your friends?
I honestly don't know of anyone that would.
There would be more incentive for people to start thier own business.
"Why not dissolve the entire union and each state can form it's own country."
Why not?
That is even more extreme, but interesting! I think the states should be accountable at some level, but who knows?
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: Ron Paul announces exploratory committee [Re: teknix]
#14365663 - 04/28/11 07:55 AM (13 years, 24 days ago) |
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Not I or my friends, but some would. Look up the so-called "Gilded Age" of the late 19th and early 20th centuries in a history book. They sorta had a little Libertarian philosophy going on there. Of course, if worse comes to worse, some of you could emigrate to Somalia. That's pretty close to what would happen if Libertarians ran things.
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teknix
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Re: Ron Paul announces exploratory committee [Re: Le_Canard]
#14365685 - 04/28/11 08:00 AM (13 years, 24 days ago) |
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No it wouldn't. I also wouldn't buy products from these companies, so they would likely go bankrupt, as many others would feel the same way.
Tell me more about your Independent states idea.
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teknix
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Re: Ron Paul announces exploratory committee [Re: teknix]
#14365690 - 04/28/11 08:03 AM (13 years, 24 days ago) |
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Besides, the states would make laws to prohibit such things.
Paul doesn't condone minors smoking pot . . .
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
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Re: Ron Paul announces exploratory committee [Re: teknix] 1
#14365709 - 04/28/11 08:12 AM (13 years, 24 days ago) |
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Sure about that? It happened back then, it could happen in the future under a libertarian state. Methinks you overestimate the goodwill of most folks. Most wouldn't care about goods produced by child labor. Look at Chinese goods - some are produced by children in sweatshops in 16 hour shifts or produced by convict labor, and people buy their goods by the shipload.
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teknix
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Re: Ron Paul announces exploratory committee [Re: Le_Canard]
#14365753 - 04/28/11 08:27 AM (13 years, 24 days ago) |
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As I think you underestimate :P
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Rebirtha
I really like bread




Registered: 09/22/03
Posts: 5,680
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Re: Ron Paul announces exploratory committee [Re: teknix]
#14365799 - 04/28/11 08:46 AM (13 years, 24 days ago) |
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Toiletduk, you are applying the common misconception of libertarian views. The idea of libertarian is to bring as many as the rules of law to the local level. Your local government can decide the rules and you can be part of it. Paul is saying one size fits all rules doesn't fit with all communities, nor will anybody ever be able to agree at the level what is good for everbody. Anti drug war doesn't mean pro crack and anti federal labor laws doesn't mean pro sweat shop.
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Rebirtha
I really like bread




Registered: 09/22/03
Posts: 5,680
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Re: Ron Paul announces exploratory committee [Re: Rebirtha]
#14365810 - 04/28/11 08:51 AM (13 years, 24 days ago) |
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The minimum wage laws are silly though. People argue that if you don't have minimum wage laws it will destroy the middle class and there will be sweat shops, this really isn't true. People say it's wrong to work for 4 or 5 bucks an hour, but what if that is what the job is worth? Take for instance ChaCha service. It pays users by commission which if you do it all day long comes out to about 6 bucks an hour. Tons of people do it in this economy because they need money even though it's below minimum wage. Working for somebody is an agreement by both parties. Your Chinese argument contains many more variables than that they don't have minimum wage laws. You are making a cause and effect and leaving out everything else involved in their government and monetary policy.
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Led Zeppelin
Tripper


Registered: 05/17/10
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Re: Ron Paul announces exploratory committee [Re: Rebirtha]
#14367888 - 04/28/11 04:11 PM (13 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Rebirtha said: Toiletduk, you are applying the common misconception of libertarian views. The idea of libertarian is to bring as many as the rules of law to the local level. Your local government can decide the rules and you can be part of it. Paul is saying one size fits all rules doesn't fit with all communities, nor will anybody ever be able to agree at the level what is good for everbody. Anti drug war doesn't mean pro crack and anti federal labor laws doesn't mean pro sweat shop.
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bigmike7104
Stranger

Registered: 07/12/10
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Loc: USA
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Re: Ron Paul announces exploratory committee [Re: Le_Canard]
#14368051 - 04/28/11 04:38 PM (13 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
ToiletDuk said: Sure about that? It happened back then, it could happen in the future under a libertarian state. Methinks you overestimate the goodwill of most folks. Most wouldn't care about goods produced by child labor. Look at Chinese goods - some are produced by children in sweatshops in 16 hour shifts or produced by convict labor, and people buy their goods by the shipload.
i highly doubt your local governor would be elected if he wanted to let that happen.
-------------------- Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines
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Chal021
In a Hobbit Hole

Registered: 03/08/10
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Re: Ron Paul announces exploratory committee [Re: bigmike7104]
#14538921 - 05/31/11 01:16 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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I for one am truly glad hees running. The direction the government has taken in relation to lawmaking is starting to sicken me. The patriot act getting an extension with no real debate, the "protect ip" act which would let private corporations get sites shut down before a trial and verdict, and the real ID act (national ID database). Not to mention the direct violations of the constitution by Obama. Chairing the UN security council in Sept 2009, taking a title from a foreign government (article 1 section 9), going to war with Libya without congressional approval (article 1 section 8 even after 60 days per the war powers resolution he still hasn't withdrew from Libya), and the numerous side-windings around congress using executive orders (highly unethical and totally undermines the balance of powers).
The office of the president is too powerful now and congress isn't doing a damn thing to stop it. Ultimate power vested in one man is too fundamentally dangerous on a governmental level that can be and is totally counterproductive to a free society. We need a president in there that will have no problems getting legislation introduced that will reduce his own power back to constitutional levels and make congress start taking responsibility for their job. Of all the things Ive heard said about Ron Paul no one can say that he is not a strict constitutionalist.
He also knows more about economics than all the other republican candidates and Obama combined. Keynesian (macro level - central planned) economics is not working. Money is only a means of trade, and values of said money (whatever form it may take) should be able to be negotiated between two parties without restriction.
If you haven't heard him speak on an economic level I'd advise you look him up. He knows what hees talking about. All the other issues are just media plagiarized gobbeldy gook to look more important than they are.
Does he have personal views? Sure! Does he let people know what they are when asked? That he does. Does he want to force his views upon anyone using the government as his tool to make them live that way? Hell No!
All this and a few more things is why I switched to Republican just to try to assist him in winning the primaries. If going toe to toe against Obama on the majority of the issues that matter (those that will see our country continue to succeed or continue to fail) I think he would win hands down. Just because the neo-con attitude is prominent in the party does not mean that one should accept things as they are. People have brains and especially with this budget problem that Washington is having people are starting to question things alot more. I also haven't heard anyone have ANY direct answers for solving this but him. Everyone else just dances around the issue like a pretty little elected official.
He is the only candidate that Ive seen support for outside the country (many people on youtube stating that they are not from US but saying we need this guy as president). Like it or not the office of the president of the US is an office that affects the world, and I dont see any foreigners lining up to support any other candidate LOL.
These are the basic reasons I will be supporting him for 2012. I welcome any comments.
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snoot
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Registered: 01/30/05
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Re: Ron Paul announces exploratory committee [Re: Chal021]
#14546107 - 06/01/11 02:45 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Chal021 said: I for one am truly glad hees running. The direction the government has taken in relation to lawmaking is starting to sicken me. The patriot act getting an extension with no real debate, the "protect ip" act which would let private corporations get sites shut down before a trial and verdict, and the real ID act (national ID database). Not to mention the direct violations of the constitution by Obama. Chairing the UN security council in Sept 2009, taking a title from a foreign government (article 1 section 9), going to war with Libya without congressional approval (article 1 section 8 even after 60 days per the war powers resolution he still hasn't withdrew from Libya), and the numerous side-windings around congress using executive orders (highly unethical and totally undermines the balance of powers).
The office of the president is too powerful now and congress isn't doing a damn thing to stop it. Ultimate power vested in one man is too fundamentally dangerous on a governmental level that can be and is totally counterproductive to a free society. We need a president in there that will have no problems getting legislation introduced that will reduce his own power back to constitutional levels and make congress start taking responsibility for their job. Of all the things Ive heard said about Ron Paul no one can say that he is not a strict constitutionalist.
He also knows more about economics than all the other republican candidates and Obama combined. Keynesian (macro level - central planned) economics is not working. Money is only a means of trade, and values of said money (whatever form it may take) should be able to be negotiated between two parties without restriction.
If you haven't heard him speak on an economic level I'd advise you look him up. He knows what hees talking about. All the other issues are just media plagiarized gobbeldy gook to look more important than they are.
Does he have personal views? Sure! Does he let people know what they are when asked? That he does. Does he want to force his views upon anyone using the government as his tool to make them live that way? Hell No!
All this and a few more things is why I switched to Republican just to try to assist him in winning the primaries. If going toe to toe against Obama on the majority of the issues that matter (those that will see our country continue to succeed or continue to fail) I think he would win hands down. Just because the neo-con attitude is prominent in the party does not mean that one should accept things as they are. People have brains and especially with this budget problem that Washington is having people are starting to question things alot more. I also haven't heard anyone have ANY direct answers for solving this but him. Everyone else just dances around the issue like a pretty little elected official.
He is the only candidate that Ive seen support for outside the country (many people on youtube stating that they are not from US but saying we need this guy as president). Like it or not the office of the president of the US is an office that affects the world, and I dont see any foreigners lining up to support any other candidate LOL.
These are the basic reasons I will be supporting him for 2012. I welcome any comments.
it would make far too much sense to put someone wise and rational in the white house, way too much sense to make things work in a way that is logical and benefits society. this is why he'll never get elected, I'm sorry I love ron paul, but I think the day he gets elected will be the day most of our problems are solved, so long as society and the country itself stays as corrupt and ridiculous as it is today ron paul wont ever be elected. People want charismatic charming good looking presidents, people dont care about what they do or say for more then 15min.
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β I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity. - Simone de Beauvoir -
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LisonAlGaib


Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 1,654
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Re: Ron Paul announces exploratory committee [Re: snoot]
#14546159 - 06/01/11 02:54 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
thelivingfreekshow said: You have to be a puppet of big buisness and a lying two-faced blow hard to become president in this hell hole, Ron Paul is neither.
Which is way Ron Paul will never be President, and continuing to support his ticket is the equivalent to wasting time.
No Presidential candidate is worth supporting.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Ron Paul announces exploratory committee [Re: snoot]
#14546277 - 06/01/11 03:14 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
snoot said:
it would make far too much sense to put someone wise and rational in the white house, way too much sense to make things work in a way that is logical and benefits society. this is why he'll never get elected, I'm sorry I love ron paul, but I think the day he gets elected will be the day most of our problems are solved, so long as society and the country itself stays as corrupt and ridiculous as it is today ron paul wont ever be elected.
This sounds EXACTLY like the Obamabots from 3 years ago.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Ron Paul announces exploratory committee [Re: LisonAlGaib]
#14546312 - 06/01/11 03:21 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
LisonAlGaib said:
Quote:
thelivingfreekshow said: You have to be a puppet of big buisness and a lying two-faced blow hard to become president in this hell hole, Ron Paul is neither.
Which is way Ron Paul will never be President, and continuing to support his ticket is the equivalent to wasting time.
No Presidential candidate is worth supporting.
I'll vote for that.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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snoot
look alive β




Registered: 01/30/05
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Re: Ron Paul announces exploratory committee [Re: zappaisgod]
#14546454 - 06/01/11 03:45 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
snoot said:
it would make far too much sense to put someone wise and rational in the white house, way too much sense to make things work in a way that is logical and benefits society. this is why he'll never get elected, I'm sorry I love ron paul, but I think the day he gets elected will be the day most of our problems are solved, so long as society and the country itself stays as corrupt and ridiculous as it is today ron paul wont ever be elected.
This sounds EXACTLY like the Obamabots from 3 years ago.
how so? I didnt vote for Obama or endorse him, or enjoy him as a president. I would love to see ron paul in office.
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β I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity. - Simone de Beauvoir -
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Ron Paul announces exploratory committee [Re: snoot]
#14546724 - 06/01/11 04:39 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
snoot said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
snoot said:
it would make far too much sense to put someone wise and rational in the white house, way too much sense to make things work in a way that is logical and benefits society. this is why he'll never get elected, I'm sorry I love ron paul, but I think the day he gets elected will be the day most of our problems are solved, so long as society and the country itself stays as corrupt and ridiculous as it is today ron paul wont ever be elected.
This sounds EXACTLY like the Obamabots from 3 years ago.
how so? I didnt vote for Obama or endorse him, or enjoy him as a president. I would love to see ron paul in office.
I highlighted the Paulbot part for you in case you forgot what you wrote. I can't decide which of the two assholes would be worse. Four more of Obama or any of L. Ron.
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snoot
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Re: Ron Paul announces exploratory committee [Re: zappaisgod]
#14546748 - 06/01/11 04:45 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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no I didnt mean that ron paul would solve all our problems, I just think that day wont ever happen till most the things we stressed about are irrelevant, I just dont think its ron pauls time, he's ahead of his time,.
I wish someone would freeze him and let him back out in a decade or so maybe.
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β I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity. - Simone de Beauvoir -
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