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encryptor


Registered: 05/15/03
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Last seen: 19 days, 13 hours
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Petri dish cultures from mushrooms purchased at Grocery Store
#14356318 - 04/26/11 05:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I can just buy mushrooms I like at the grocery store and clone those cultures on petri dishes, right? I would buy shitake, potobella, white button, asian, and oyster for starters. That would save me buying spore syringes @ $18 from a provider. 
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encryptor


Registered: 05/15/03
Posts: 1,154
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Re: Petri dish cultures from mushrooms purchased at Grocery Store [Re: encryptor]
#14356548 - 04/26/11 05:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm going to use glass petri dishes and potato dextrose agar. Any thoughts on buying from store? It makes no difference yes? I am patience and don't plan to cultivate soon.
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Jay Sav
Woodsman/Hunter/Fungophile



Registered: 03/14/11
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Re: Petri dish cultures from mushrooms purchased at Grocery Store [Re: encryptor]
#14357030 - 04/26/11 06:54 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think its a bad idea, first of all most mushroom producers expand their spawn until right before the onset of senescence... you have no idea what the p value of those mushrooms are. you'd be better off just saving up and buying a few slants to keep. The end result will be worth it.
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EvilMushroom666
Heretic




Registered: 11/18/09
Posts: 10,289
Loc: Canada
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Re: Petri dish cultures from mushrooms purchased at Grocery Store [Re: encryptor] 1
#14357506 - 04/26/11 08:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Do some more research about cloning store bought mushrooms, there is a lot of info on the boards from people having the same idea.
SOME people get away with it but most of the time what you are buying has been expanded 3-4 generations and will not provide a good vigorous fruiting mycelium.
Seeing as most commercially cultivated strains range from $100-300 per culture from companies such as Aloha Medicinals, $18 for a liquid culture syringe is not a bad deal.
My advice is save up and buy 2-3 syringes from a vendor, perhaps a strain of oyster, shiitake and something else. You do not want to get to far ahead of yourself and starting small with a few variety's will allow you to care for them better.
I also suggest picking up a book on mushroom cultivation such as:
Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms By Paul Stamets Mycelium Running by Paul Stamets
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MonkeyKnifeFight
Stranger


Registered: 06/08/10
Posts: 772
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Re: Petri dish cultures from mushrooms purchased at Grocery Store [Re: EvilMushroom666]
#14357996 - 04/26/11 09:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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It'll work fine. I've had great success with every culture I've cloned from bought mushrooms. You just want to get them as fresh as possible. If you can find some at a farmer's market or somewhere else where they are fresher that will make a big difference.
People always talk about senescence with store bought mushrooms but every time I've heard of someone trying it there were no issues.
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EvilMushroom666
Heretic




Registered: 11/18/09
Posts: 10,289
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Re: Petri dish cultures from mushrooms purchased at Grocery Store [Re: MonkeyKnifeFight]
#14358121 - 04/26/11 10:04 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Just out of curiosity Monkey have you ever put your store cloned strains up against any commercial strains?
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MonkeyKnifeFight
Stranger


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Re: Petri dish cultures from mushrooms purchased at Grocery Store [Re: EvilMushroom666] 1
#14358219 - 04/26/11 10:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Nope I have too many cultures than I can deal with as is without starting to double up. My king oyster culture is from a store bought fruit and it's awesome. I've got a contaminated grain jar that is fruiting so aggressively it looks like it's going to blow the jar up.
But regardless it's a good cheap way to get started. When you get to the point where you need to get get maximum performance it's probably time to shop around for the best culture. Most of my cultures come from trades on shroomery and who knows how old those are.
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EvilMushroom666
Heretic




Registered: 11/18/09
Posts: 10,289
Loc: Canada
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Re: Petri dish cultures from mushrooms purchased at Grocery Store [Re: MonkeyKnifeFight]
#14358313 - 04/26/11 10:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Fair enough.
All my cultures have come from trades here on the Shroomery and like you said who knows the P value of most cultures that are shared around. I have a FEW cultures that come from commercial stock and I do know the P value to but that is a rarity.
Out of curiosity in the future I might clone a few store bought fruits and see for myself whats what. Would be interesting to clone a few store bought fruits and fruit them alongside a commercial strain to see the difference in yields and how much senescence comes in to play for store cloned mushrooms. Would make for an interesting article.
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curry
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Re: Petri dish cultures from mushrooms purchased at Grocery Store [Re: EvilMushroom666]
#14358648 - 04/26/11 11:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I never had any luck trying to clone a store bought mushroom... mostly because where I live I can't get any REALLY fresh mushrooms, which is what is necessary to be successful. I've had real good success making petri dishes from those 18 dollar cultures that you're referring to, however, so I don't mind the price. And, you can get whatever you want that way.
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encryptor


Registered: 05/15/03
Posts: 1,154
Last seen: 19 days, 13 hours
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Re: Petri dish cultures from mushrooms purchased at Grocery Store [Re: curry]
#14360635 - 04/27/11 11:22 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ok, thanks everyone. I'll give it a try and post pictures. What is the P value??
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EvilMushroom666
Heretic




Registered: 11/18/09
Posts: 10,289
Loc: Canada
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Re: Petri dish cultures from mushrooms purchased at Grocery Store [Re: encryptor]
#14360648 - 04/27/11 11:25 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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It is a system used by Paul Stamets and other mycologists to keep track of a cultures age. More information on the P value system can be found in Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
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Re: Petri dish cultures from mushrooms purchased at Grocery Store [Re: MonkeyKnifeFight]
#14361053 - 04/27/11 01:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
MonkeyKnifeFight said: People always talk about senescence with store bought mushrooms but every time I've heard of someone trying it there were no issues.
Obviously it depends on what one defines as 'issues'.
I've never seen one single substrate from a store-bought clone that was fully covered in mushrooms. I've only seen people declaring success when a substrate has two or three mushrooms. Store bought clones are not worth the trouble it takes to get them. If they were, that's what we'd all use rather than pony up $200 or more. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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jwand6
crazy guy


Registered: 03/30/11
Posts: 10
Loc: Utah
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Re: Petri dish cultures from mushrooms purchased at Grocery Store [Re: EvilMushroom666]
#14361071 - 04/27/11 01:22 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I heard that oysters are often easiest to clone from store bought fruits. With Agaricus, I guess you use a piece of gill tissue to help germinate the spores. I've been studying for some time and am thinking I would like to try this as well. Good luck.
RogerRabbit know his mushrooms! I would only do this for fun. For any serious culturing, I intend to buy or trade for good, clean vigorous myc.
-------------------- Imagine, or just pretend to imagine.
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Mycelio
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Re: Petri dish cultures from mushrooms purchased at Grocery Store [Re: RogerRabbit]
#14361211 - 04/27/11 01:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Strange, I never had lousy yields this way. Actually, some of my best producing strains originate from store bought mushrooms, which means I harvest 30 to 50% of the wet substrate weight within three flushes.
Carsten
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MonkeyKnifeFight
Stranger


Registered: 06/08/10
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Re: Petri dish cultures from mushrooms purchased at Grocery Store [Re: Mycelio]
#14362066 - 04/27/11 04:25 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Right I never said a store bought mushroom clone would out compete a $200 culture. But I don't need it to. My king oyster culture from a store (farmer's market) bought fruit always gives me one strong fruiting where it completely fills the space within the bag (i fruit with the sides pulled up). I would probably have more vigorous successive flushes with a fresher culture but it's never been a big enough issue for me to get another one.
We could go round and round about culture vigor but it just depends on what your needs are. I've traded for cultures that have absolutely no energy at all. So we could say using any culture that you don't buy yourself from a trusted source or isolate from spores is a complete waste of time but I would disagree.
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NSF
Eager to learn


Registered: 01/27/11
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Re: Petri dish cultures from mushrooms purchased at Grocery Store [Re: MonkeyKnifeFight]
#14362142 - 04/27/11 04:37 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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It's not viable for commercial growers to operate at a high P value anyway, it's too much of a risk. So here in Aus they don't do it. The big growers don't do their own bulk culture work. I visited a bisporus farm that does 1.5 tonnes of rye grain spawn every day, that is inoculated with peat based spawn they import from the US. So they are using a new culture every time, for guaranteed success.
So if you cloned one of these you're assured a low P value. Wait, maybe not, who knows how far along the strain supplier took it. But i imagine it's young as the spawn is expensive.
But yes, from stores there is always unknowns. If you buy a strain you know someone else has done the work to get the best strain available.
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encryptor


Registered: 05/15/03
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Re: Petri dish cultures from mushrooms purchased at Grocery Store [Re: MonkeyKnifeFight]
#14362174 - 04/27/11 04:41 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Right, I've just felt people have money to waste or believe they will get better success if they buy a spore syringe/slant. Now I feel experienced and confident enough to approach it this way. I also thought I read how someone cloned a portobella from a store bought mushroom. 
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MonkeyKnifeFight
Stranger


Registered: 06/08/10
Posts: 772
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Re: Petri dish cultures from mushrooms purchased at Grocery Store [Re: encryptor]
#14362238 - 04/27/11 04:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
encryptor said: Right, I've just felt people have money to waste or believe they will get better success if they buy a spore syringe/slant. Now I feel experienced and confident enough to approach it this way. I also thought I read how someone cloned a portobella from a store bought mushroom.  
It's not about wasting money. If I was going to start a commercial king oyster operation first thing I would do is go buy the youngest most vigorous culture I could and throw mine out. But since one big flush is fine for me I don't care enough. I spend most of my energy trying to grow new species or perfect the ones I've already grown so trading/cloning gives me the ability to amass a fairly large collection of cultures that I never would have bought. Everyone has their own priorities.
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trout
Flyfisherman



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Re: Petri dish cultures from mushrooms purchased at Grocery Store [Re: encryptor]
#14362289 - 04/27/11 04:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I currently have very agressive yellow oyster and pearl oysters trying to fruit in my jars bc they finished faster than I expected, they are both clones from whole foods. I would never do this for a comercial interest but for a hobbyist it works!
-------------------- I need tropical cultures, ABM, V.v....!!!! Well things don't always look as they are and things can be misread and mistaken for what they realy are so don't read too much into what I say since I might be mistaken myself. And remember I rarely ever give a definate answer.
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