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p_walter
Lurker



Registered: 04/25/11
Posts: 535
Loc: Irrelevant
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Re: Too long in dehydrator? [Re: Slimz]
#14356216 - 04/26/11 04:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Slimz said: just as an FYI to EVERYONE its not the HEAT that causes the loss its oxidation.. and yes long high heat exposure to moving air of a dehydrator can oxidize the actives... the melting point of the actives is much higher than the boiling point of water .. but the constant hot moving air is the bad guy..
This. I have been doing quite a bit of research in to what causes psilocybin to "break down", and this man has it right. Oxidation is what causes the loss of potency in mushrooms, and as any chemical reaction, heat speeds up the process. This is why, if you are storing mushrooms long term, it is recommended to store them sealed (less oxygen, limits oxidation), dry (to prevent mold/rotting), in a cold place (slows oxidation), preferably with an oxygen absorber (again, less oxygen, limits oxidation that can take place).
Steeping/boiling mushrooms doesn't cause a noticeable lack of potency because the time is limited; I don't know about you but I don't steep my tea for more than 5 to 10 minutes. Add to that the fact that being submerged in water probably doesn't facilitate oxidation (I don't know this for sure, just an educated guess. I dropped out of organic chem :P).
As to why OP's friend noticed a loss of potency, there are too many variables to say for sure, but heat very well could have been a contributing factor. Before you call this "bullshit misinformation", I ask you, have you actually stored mushrooms in a dehydrator at such high temperatures for extended periods of time? If you want to know the answer for once and all, run a controlled experiment and post the results. For being such a controversial issue that nobody really knows the answer to, I'm surprised no one has taken it upon themselves to run this test before.
-------------------- Coaster said: so i got free drug coupons witch u floozies refer to as "money"....
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anonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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Re: Too long in dehydrator? [Re: p_walter]
#14356359 - 04/26/11 05:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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p_walter said:I ask you, have you actually stored mushrooms in a dehydrator at such high temperatures for extended periods of time?
Yes. And I guarantee u this isn't the first time someone has dehydrated for 30 hours or more at a stint.
It's bullshit misinformation and I don't need to do a controlled experiment to call you out on it.
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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k00laid
NEMO


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 6 months, 5 days
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Re: Too long in dehydrator? [Re: anonjon]
#14356540 - 04/26/11 05:33 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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anonjon said:
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afrosheen said:
BTW I've had very, very good batches and fed them to people that came back and said the same thing. Turns out they ate them after eating a gigantic spaghetti buffet and drinking a 6 pack and eating a few bars of Xanax. Well no shit you barely tripped, you fat bastards. FAST MOAR next time.
SERIOUSLY. If some asswipe tells you your shit was bunk, 90% chance he's just a dumass who didn't dose right.
i would agree with this being the main problem in all of the "i grew bunk mushrooms threads" "and i never tried them but MY FRIENDS WOULD NEVER LIE TO ME" "NOR COULD THEY EVER BE WRONG"
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
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k00laid
NEMO


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 6 months, 5 days
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Re: Too long in dehydrator? [Re: p_walter]
#14356558 - 04/26/11 05:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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p_walter said: I'm surprised no one has taken it upon themselves to run this test before.
that's because no one on this forum has a RELIABLE AND REPLICABLE method of testing for potency
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
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afrosheen
9Lives the cat



Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 1,878
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Re: Too long in dehydrator? [Re: k00laid]
#14356745 - 04/26/11 06:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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k00laid said:
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p_walter said: I'm surprised no one has taken it upon themselves to run this test before.
that's because no one on this forum has a RELIABLE AND REPLICABLE method of testing for potency
True. Unless someone is a super special guy that has access to a gas chromatograph or similar testing equipment, it isn't going to happen either. It's all subjective unless it can be scientifically quantified.
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anonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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Re: Too long in dehydrator? [Re: afrosheen]
#14356972 - 04/26/11 06:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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And it's a stupid fucking thing to test. If over-dehydrating killed the potency, there would be at least a noob a week posting about it asking why their shit is bunk. It's just not the case BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAPPEN.
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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User714



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 356
Last seen: 3 months, 30 days
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Re: Too long in dehydrator? *DELETED* [Re: p_walter]
#14357570 - 04/26/11 08:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Post deleted by User714
Reason for deletion: .
-------------------- They'll never be good to you, bad to you. They'll never be anything, anything at all.
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anonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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Re: Too long in dehydrator? [Re: User714]
#14357732 - 04/26/11 09:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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There is a phenomena associated with this strain in which u occasionally, inexplicably get a flush with bunk fruit. It doesn't happen often, which is why you hear people defending B+ saying how awesome it was for them. Well, that's great, but it doesn't change the fact this happens. It is unique to this strain.
hence the nickname Bunk+
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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p_walter
Lurker



Registered: 04/25/11
Posts: 535
Loc: Irrelevant
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Re: Too long in dehydrator? [Re: k00laid]
#14357949 - 04/26/11 09:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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k00laid said:
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p_walter said: I'm surprised no one has taken it upon themselves to run this test before.
that's because no one on this forum has a RELIABLE AND REPLICABLE method of testing for potency
Touché. I shall return to my lurking now; as you were.
-------------------- Coaster said: so i got free drug coupons witch u floozies refer to as "money"....
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Sillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc:
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Re: Too long in dehydrator? [Re: p_walter] 1
#14359987 - 04/27/11 08:21 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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p_walter said: This. I have been doing quite a bit of research in to what causes psilocybin to "break down", and this man has it right. Oxidation is what causes the loss of potency in mushrooms, and as any chemical reaction, heat speeds up the process. This is why, if you are storing mushrooms long term, it is recommended to store them sealed (less oxygen, limits oxidation), dry (to prevent mold/rotting), in a cold place (slows oxidation), preferably with an oxygen absorber (again, less oxygen, limits oxidation that can take place).
p_walter - you are correct, to an extent. But 155*F for 30 hours shouldn't have a that much of an effect. If you dehydrated them at that temperature for a week straight, then you might have a noticeable change, but I'm still not really sure.
Psilocybin is a relatively stable chemical. The reason that it breaks down at all is because it either gets above its decomposition temperature or it is enzymatically dephosphorylated into psilocin, which oxidizes easily in contact with atmospheric O2. These enzymes are believed to be present in the mushroom fruits, but may not be released or in full contact with the alkaloids while the fruit is in its whole form.
Aqueous solutions, especially with powdered fruits, actually tend to speed up the dephosphorylation, especially in neutral or alkaline environments. My theory is that the water just allows the enzymes to more easily come in contact with the alkaloids, but that's just a guess. Heat also increases the catalysis, but it still takes a lot of time. If there is any air dissolved in the solution (which, there usually is), that air will oxidize the psilocin.
The point of all this is that unless your fruits blued so much they have purple/black, you haven't over-dried or overheated away their potency - and even then, there's probably still plenty of magic unless it was done for a long time. Before I got my Nesco, I tried drying my first bulk fruits in an oven, which made them look almost like mushroom shaped charcoal, and I still tripped (but there was a noticeable potency loss.) You keep them in a bag to keep them fresh, but this has way more to do with keeping the water vapor in the air off of the fruits (which would allow enzymatic activity, not to mention mold and bacteria to eat your fruits) than keeping the alkaloids away from oxygen.
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p_walter
Lurker



Registered: 04/25/11
Posts: 535
Loc: Irrelevant
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Re: Too long in dehydrator? [Re: Sillicybin]
#14360624 - 04/27/11 11:20 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thank you for taking the time to write out that post, I appreciate the information I wasn't aware that there were enzymes present in the actual fruitbodies that dephosphorylize psilocybin (makes me really wonder what purpose psilocin serves our little umbrella-shaped friends).
-------------------- Coaster said: so i got free drug coupons witch u floozies refer to as "money"....
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