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Offliner05c03
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natural populations
    #1435486 - 04/07/03 09:15 AM (13 years, 8 months ago)

Okay, so I have a question concerning fungal population shifts as they may be altered by mushroom cultivators. First a little background. With shitake it has been shown that cultivated varieties can replace wild populations in the locality of mushroom cultivation operations where shitake is being grown. So we know that mycoculturalist can alter populations locally. Shitake is not a tree pathogen, however oyster mushrooms and ganoderma, to just a few are facualtative parasites in that they can attack trees that are already weak or wounded due to some other stress. My question is has anyone here heard tell of their being higher frequency of tree infections or increases in local populations of these mushrooms around mushroom cultivation operations. I think Stamets mentions this in one of his books, but I am not sure. At any rate I'd like to here what any of you think. Thanks.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: natural populations [Re: r05c03]
    #1437633 - 04/07/03 11:24 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I think stress is more of a factor. I find a lot more Ganoderma lucidum in parks that the trees get they're roots beat up by mowing than in woods. In the woods I think your more likely to find Ganoderma appalantum. Given that both oysters and ganodermas produce a lot of spores I think you'd find an increase near cultivation operations. Have Shittakes been found in the wild in the U.S.?


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: natural populations [Re: falcon]
    #1438139 - 04/08/03 03:01 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I also read somewhere the oysters occur more frequently around the growing rooms.
Majority of cultivated species are not pathogens, if they ever attack live trees then they probably attack only those who are already in bad conditions. It's different with species like Armillarea or Shizophyllum, which is also a human pathogen. I think I read somewhere that Armillarea cultures are illegal in some countries.
The biggest problem IMO is introducing new species to your habitat. I once talked about my collection with a biologist and when he heard that I have species that were not yet discovered in my country he almost kicked my ass. :crazy:


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Offliner05c03
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Re: natural populations [Re: falcon]
    #1439754 - 04/08/03 05:08 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, with facultative pathogens stress is a big factor, so is wound entry, so that most likely explains the ganoderma. Alot of the log cultivated fungi, Grifola, ganoderma sp. , oysters, the sulphur mushroom can behave as stress and wound pathogens. I have found very little literature on the subject (maybe it could be the focus of some research). The literature I found concerning the shitake was from a study in China. That is funny about the Biologist getting mad at you Z. Thanks for y'alls input.


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OfflinePaid
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Re: natural populations [Re: zeronio]
    #1439958 - 04/08/03 06:18 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

a biologist and when he heard that I have species that were not yet discovered in my country he almost kicked my ass.



I hope you didn't tell him about any out door planned plots ,else I'm sure you would have got that arse kicking lol :tongue:



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Offliner05c03
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Re: natural populations [Re: Paid]
    #1440836 - 04/08/03 11:05 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

In sense though, that is what I am talking about. Do you think people can introduce species into places where they previously did not inhabit through their cultivation. Can this replace native species? If so, is that okay? I mean new plants get introcuded all the time. Sometimes they come into some place new and start pushing out native species. It certainly can cause problems in plant communities. This could happen with fungal communities, perhaps.


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: natural populations [Re: Paid]
    #1441555 - 04/09/03 03:09 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I hope you didn't tell him about any out door planned plots




Nooo... I told him that I'm going to grow them only in controlled environment.  :grin:



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Offlinezeronio
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Re: natural populations [Re: r05c03]
    #1441564 - 04/09/03 03:15 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

It can cause problems, but I think that it would be rather difficult to introduce a new species so that it would become wide spread. In my country there are many plants (weeds) that were introduced by honeymakers and that cause severe problems that few shrooms won't be even noticed.
I have a crazy plan to introduce dozens of active species in my city...  :tongue: 


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OfflinePaid
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Re: natural populations [Re: zeronio]
    #1441759 - 04/09/03 04:45 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I have a crazy plan to introduce dozens of active species in my city...


I sense an arse wooping from your friend coming your way lol.

rO i have the same thoughts, one thing for me is i have a wood to play "introduce the alien speices" into as outdoor crops ,but late last year i found an as yet unknown(tentative Psilocybe caerulipes) so if i introduce any others into these woods then getting a positive id on whats already there will become harder :-( as then i wont truly be able to claim its native.

But at the end of the day i dont personaly think introduced speices are a bad thing, certainly if there more usefull than what was there before hand.But there are many documented problems from other introduced species so im really dont know.Tougth choice as i see it.But if some of my shiitakes escape into the local woods i dont think ill be that annoyed come autum :-) when i get a few free mels :-)


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Re: natural populations [Re: Paid]
    #1441948 - 04/09/03 06:21 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Well it's certainly better then cutting the whole wood down and planting genetically engineered corn on its place.  :laugh: 


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Offliner05c03
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Re: natural populations [Re: zeronio]
    #1442134 - 04/09/03 09:15 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

yeah, you got that right. I am sure that introducing fungi would not be as bad or ecologically troublesome as introduced weed species, primarily because native plant provide so much food and cover native higher animals and when they are replaced by invaders this cover and food source is gone. There are other problems too. However, if you introduce a new fungus, and it does well, colonizing natural subtrates outside of its site of inoculation you can be almost certain that you are replacing some native species that is growing there, taking it niche. I do not see there beinging a major ecological question, I think it is more of an ethical one. I sure would like to see some research done on this...


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Re: natural populations [Re: r05c03]
    #1448665 - 04/11/03 03:10 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

This is an interesting issue - I'm thinking about it a lot. I guess that's why I told that biologist about it. I hoped he will say: "Nooooo, it's not a problem!"  :smirk:
I'm already collection cultures & spores of local mushrooms to preserve at least some of their gene pool.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: natural populations [Re: zeronio]
    #1458803 - 04/15/03 12:16 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Armillaria being illegal is pretty funny because most likely the are all ready in any country the are illegal in. http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/course/pp728/Armillaria/Armillaria.htm
On the other hand an introduced species or strain may be nastier.


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Re: natural populations [Re: falcon]
    #1459171 - 04/15/03 03:05 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

They look scary... This is my A. tabescens:



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Offlinefalcon
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Re: natural populations [Re: zeronio]
    #1461607 - 04/15/03 09:30 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Those things look like they can kick any molds ass that gets in they're way.n very nice pictures.


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Offliner05c03
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Re: natural populations [Re: falcon]
    #1461616 - 04/15/03 09:32 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, that and kill trees


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Re: natural populations [Re: r05c03]
    #1462892 - 04/16/03 04:47 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I cloned them from fruits that were growing off living roots. But I'm not sure that they're really such a pest. I've been checking some patches for years and the infected trees don't seem damaged at all. Also the infection doesn't spread around. I think that there are only certain "killer" strains in this species complex.


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Offlinecanid
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Re: natural populations [Re: zeronio]
    #1462910 - 04/16/03 05:05 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:


...but I think that it would be rather difficult to introduce a new species so that it would become wide spread...




are you familliar with australia's stray cat problem?

introduced species can certainly become a problem.
on the other hand, there are cases where they can be beneficial, such as the zeebra muscles in lake the great lakes. after thier introduction ecologists where worried that they would cause any number of problems but in actuality they helped filter out polutants introduced by industrial waste.

nature is unpredictable as is, and more so when people interfere.


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Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.


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Re: natural populations [Re: canid]
    #1463052 - 04/16/03 07:23 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Yea, I know about australia & NZ problems. Introducing a mushroom species would be much harder as they're very specialized, for example I grew P. cubensis in my garden but I'm absolutely sure it didn't survive the winter.
But yes, theoretically we can cause a disaster doing this. I think people should focus on finding & growing local species of mushrooms.


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Re: natural populations [Re: zeronio]
    #1463092 - 04/16/03 07:59 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Yes agreed that is a good way of doing things :-)
Local wild picked strains are more enjoyerbal to work with too.
But then again :-) a collection of wood loving actives from around the
world growing in my wood is an attractive prospect for me :-)

So a bit of both is the way to go :-) i feel.


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