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InvisiblePassiveAgressive
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Nature Deficit Disorder and Honey Bee's
    #14354162 - 04/26/11 09:18 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Dennis van Engelsdorp makes a plea for bee's on one TED.COM speech. In his speech he covers much on the topic of bees and the CCD (Colony Collapse Disorder.) He also cover's oblique angles to the phenonmenon. Apparently bats have an epidemic of their own called white-nosed syndrome. He makes the acertation that  people are somehow important players in the game by bringing up a new term; Nature Deficit Disorder.

This term is new to me, but the concept of children not getting outside enough is not. I believe Dennis makes the implication that if more of us were outdoors raising bee's or simply just outside learning about outside, we wouldn't have some of the issues that we do.

I cannot recall where I read about a natural protocol where the set of fauna act as a barrier or break-wall for humanity against the more virulent of pathogens. One man did a study on the effects of this, I cannot remember who or where, but he came to the conclusion that losing species isn't just something for the bleeding heart hippies. He basically said if we lose too many, nature will come for us in the form of pathogens, there is virtually no way to predict it or prevent it, it's literally a matter of time. Cordyceps are kinda representative of this as they prey upon the ecological dominant species in their ecosystem when said species swells it's britches , they do exactly the thing that the mysterious man outlines in his speech/paper.

I don't want to be alarmist, but it seems to me that NND, CCD and other syndromes of similar nature are the handwriting on the wall. What do you think about the matter? Do you care, do you not care, are there more important things going on in your life? Let's see your responses.


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Nature Deficit Disorder and Honey Bee's [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #14354251 - 04/26/11 09:45 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I care, and I share the concern that many people seriously don't have a clue how nature works. but I don't buy the underlying view that seems implicitly present in some people's arguments that Nature, as a sort of anthropomorphic entity, would purposefully seek out the strongest species and then attack it. I do believe that any organism that is numerous and therefore successful in an evolutionary sense (at least in the short to mid term) will attract an array of parasites, simply because it is an evolutionarily successful route from the viewpoint of the parasite. There is no intentionality in that mechanism, though. That's my point.

As to the subject of compulsory nature training, or at least making sure everyone has some basic awareness of how ecological systems work: yes, that seems like a good idea. But I don't see how we can motivate the Xbox-McD's generation to appreciate nature. I think some people are more susceptible to it than others. Those who are, should be enabled to learn all they can, and then to implement their knowledge and experience.


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Re: Nature Deficit Disorder and Honey Bee's [Re: koraks]
    #14354295 - 04/26/11 09:59 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
But I don't see how we can motivate the Xbox-McD's generation to appreciate nature. I think some people are more susceptible to it than others. Those who are, should be enabled to learn all they can, and then to implement their knowledge and experience.




This is a bit off topic buts its unfortunately going to take
a large disaster to change the way we have become. To completely
knock us back to a time where we are forced to have a balance and
understanding of nature.


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InvisiblePassiveAgressive
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Re: Nature Deficit Disorder and Honey Bee's [Re: athedrivein61]
    #14354466 - 04/26/11 10:47 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

athedrivein61 said:
Quote:

koraks said:
But I don't see how we can motivate the Xbox-McD's generation to appreciate nature. I think some people are more susceptible to it than others. Those who are, should be enabled to learn all they can, and then to implement their knowledge and experience.




This is a bit off topic buts its unfortunately going to take
a large disaster to change the way we have become. To completely
knock us back to a time where we are forced to have a balance and
understanding of nature.




No, that is not off-topic as the topic essentially is us and nature. I have agreed with you before and to some extent I still somewhat share that sentiment.

Moving on. Based upon what has been observed, for every species there is a potential anti-species, it's just a matter of time until they meet. When we work to reduce barrier species, we supersede our built-in fail-safes and concede to annihilation.


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Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened.
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Invisiblegerryjarcia
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Re: Nature Deficit Disorder and Honey Bee's [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #14354598 - 04/26/11 11:15 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

PassiveAgressive said:
I cannot recall where I read about a natural protocol where the set of fauna act as a barrier or break-wall for humanity against the more virulent of pathogens. One man did a study on the effects of this, I cannot remember who or where, but he came to the conclusion that losing species isn't just something for the bleeding heart hippies. He basically said if we lose too many, nature will come for us in the form of pathogens, there is virtually no way to predict it or prevent it, it's literally a matter of time. Cordyceps are kinda representative of this as they prey upon the ecological dominant species in their ecosystem when said species swells it's britches , they do exactly the thing that the mysterious man outlines in his speech/paper.




it's interesting that you mention the whole "isn't just something for bleeding heart hippies" bit. I was talking with a friend the other day about how we in America (don't know where you are located on the globe) are obsessed with attempting to break down any conversation about the planet and our disconnection from it with the simple use of the term "hippie".

It's as if we as a people aren't mature enough to have a serious discourse about our role in the natural world because a group of people some 40 some odd years ago also argued that nature should also be respected.

The whole denigration of the "hippie" narrative is so played out and has become an excuse for others to not address some of the real issues at hand when it comes to humans, eco systems and how the two interact with one another.

i know you weren't using the term "hippie" in a derogatory way. it's as if we in the west can't have a conversation about nature without feeling obliged to mention something about hippies, pro or con. i wonder if people comprehend that nature existed long before the hippies used it as an ideological vehicle?


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"We are all intoxicated. We were born into an insane asylum, a world crazy-making. We believe what we see and hear. The real myth is the myth of sanity, of rationality: it's a disease that is eating away at the earth. All the poisons flow from our denial. We deny madness, we forget our crimes, we dismember the corpse, we imprison our children. We need poison to poison the poison, to remember the sacred nature of intoxication, the green body of the young god." ~ Dale Pendell


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InvisiblePassiveAgressive
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Re: Nature Deficit Disorder and Honey Bee's [Re: gerryjarcia]
    #14355008 - 04/26/11 12:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Thank the universe that that they had. It could be argued that without them, we would have even LESS of a handle on how things actually are, as opposed to how we would like for them to be.

I can't hide it any more, I am deathly afraid and deeply concerned for the bees and everything else. Deep within I know and understand that we are literally pushing the eco-sphere to a point which has never been tried before... or has it?

I recently had discovered a bee hive kit that my deceased grandmother had purchased and never set up. Perhaps I will set it up, not to farm honey with imported, susceptible species, but instead would allow natives to make use of it as they please, without interruption.


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Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened.
Happiness never decreases by being shared. - Prince Gautama Siddharta, the founder of Buddhism, 563-483 B.C.


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Invisiblegerryjarcia
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Re: Nature Deficit Disorder and Honey Bee's [Re: PassiveAgressive]
    #14355042 - 04/26/11 12:39 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

PassiveAgressive said:
Thank the universe that that they had. It could be argued that without them, we would have even LESS of a handle on how things actually are, as opposed to how we would like for them to be.

I can't hide it any more, I am deathly afraid and deeply concerned for the bees and everything else. Deep within I know and understand that we are literally pushing the eco-sphere to a point which has never been tried before... or has it?

I recently had discovered a bee hive kit that my deceased grandmother had purchased and never set up. Perhaps I will set it up, not to farm honey with imported, susceptible species, but instead would allow natives to make use of it as they please, without interruption.




don't read me wrong, i massively appreciate what the whole "earth movement" of the 60's and 70's has done for the current ecological awareness amongst successive generations. i just find that usage of the word "hippie" is so socially loaded its best to try and avoid in conversation when talking about the planet if possible (unless you are speaking with someone mature enough to look past that particular groups misgivings to see to the heart of what the movement was trying to accomplish).

i agree with you as well, i have a deep sense of foreboding for our planet.


--------------------


"We are all intoxicated. We were born into an insane asylum, a world crazy-making. We believe what we see and hear. The real myth is the myth of sanity, of rationality: it's a disease that is eating away at the earth. All the poisons flow from our denial. We deny madness, we forget our crimes, we dismember the corpse, we imprison our children. We need poison to poison the poison, to remember the sacred nature of intoxication, the green body of the young god." ~ Dale Pendell


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Nature Deficit Disorder and Honey Bee's [Re: gerryjarcia]
    #14355286 - 04/26/11 01:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Sometimes I feel that way too.  But then other times I don't. 

The things that people seem to forget is that species have been going extinct since life began.  I do not weep for panda bears.  From a Darwinian standpoint, these fauna are simply ill-equipped to continue journeying.  People tend to separate themselves too much from nature.  They look at it as something with which we coexist.  This is crap.  We are nature.  We are her children.  And everything we do has an effect.  I try not to get too caught up in judging our effects on the world.  To do so is to presume to understand Nature's intent and I don't think we will ever really understand that, assuming one even exists.

At worst, Man is the ultimate Darwinian catalyst causing the very environmental shifts necessary for evolutionary theory to work. 

Bees are disappearing.  We know this.  Is it the first time this has happened?  We don't know that.  Are we the cause?  We don't know that either.  What will happen?  The biosphere will adapt.  Bees who are resilient to whatever is causing the problem might gain a sexual advantage over those who have no such resilience that will save the species.  Maybe the bees will disappear completely and plants that are not reliant on bees for cross-pollination will gain an advantage.  It is the epitome of human arrogance to impose its will over Nature or to assume to understand Nature or even our role within her. 

We simply do as we do.


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Invisiblegerryjarcia
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Re: Nature Deficit Disorder and Honey Bee's [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #14355440 - 04/26/11 02:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

You make a good argument, Senor. i've thought of all the things you mentioned, especially the inherent arrogance in humans over thinking their role in the grand scheme of things. i suppose this is the difficulty that comes with being conscious beings.

we have to deal with emotions, memory, ideologies, fantasies, myths, etc. all the stories we tell ourselves about our place in this plane of existence are the most difficult things we have to navigate through.

i guess you just have to choose which narrative suits you best on any given day, and then attempt to live toward the realization of that narrative. perhaps what we humans are doing to the planet is nothing more than what the planet is doing to itself (nature doing to nature). then again, perhaps we have over stepped our role in the natural order and we need to reassess how are actions are effecting that order.

personally, i choose a narrative that involves personal responsibility for my existence on this planet. i've moved beyond the basics of what most animals on earth are striving towards (namely, survival) and as such i feel i have a responsibility to figure out what i am going to do now that i have reached a kind of sustaining point of existence.

that perspective could make me sound like a totally egotistical monkey (and i'm willing to accept that) but i suppose i have to choose a way to live and this is the way i choose.


--------------------


"We are all intoxicated. We were born into an insane asylum, a world crazy-making. We believe what we see and hear. The real myth is the myth of sanity, of rationality: it's a disease that is eating away at the earth. All the poisons flow from our denial. We deny madness, we forget our crimes, we dismember the corpse, we imprison our children. We need poison to poison the poison, to remember the sacred nature of intoxication, the green body of the young god." ~ Dale Pendell


Edited by gerryjarcia (04/26/11 02:18 PM)


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InvisiblePassiveAgressive
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Re: Nature Deficit Disorder and Honey Bee's [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #14355501 - 04/26/11 02:20 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Good posts, both of you. Semantics aside, species are struggling. Species critical to the survival of our food-stuffs, subsequently us. This is concerning to me no matter how I envision myself or others. Science says we've entered 6X. I guess I would like to think of it now as "the proving grounds."


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:amanitajar:


Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened.
Happiness never decreases by being shared. - Prince Gautama Siddharta, the founder of Buddhism, 563-483 B.C.


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