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Invisibleshadowplay
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Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems
    #14353173 - 04/26/11 01:34 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I'm in the research phase of working on a persuasive paper for my "urban problems and public policy" class and would appreciate any input or advise that anyone feels like offering.

I'm supposed to discuss a problem and suggest public policy changes that would help, so I wanna talk about the various problems caused by drug use among poor citizens in the ghetto. I could possibly narrow it down more later, when I say problems but I plan to include the direct health problems, problems caused by getting arrested, violence caused by trading, etc. For solutions, I will suggest decriminalization of all drugs. Does anyone have much knowledge (or know where to find it) on how decriminalizing would specifically effect ghettos?

What do you think are the other best options for dealing with various problems caused by drugs in ghettos? I'm thinking that increasing the amount of education programs and treatment centers would be the other best solution. Anyone have knowledge on these? I really don't know much about any sort of addiction treatment in america that is available to the poor, aside from AA and it's counterparts aimed toward other drugs. Haven't had the best of luck in finding them either.


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: shadowplay]
    #14353195 - 04/26/11 01:43 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Needle drives and proper drug use education services would be another good one


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InvisibleSamuel L Jackson
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: shadowplay]
    #14353196 - 04/26/11 01:43 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

look up info on spain and the netherlands.


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InvisibleMad_Larkin

Registered: 11/29/07
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: Samuel L Jackson]
    #14353198 - 04/26/11 01:45 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

And Portugal.


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Invisibleblazenn
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: shadowplay]
    #14353269 - 04/26/11 02:10 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

as far as improving drug problems goes i would talk more about improving drug rehab programs more-so than decriminalization.
that and how much more beneficial it could be to teach kids the REAL facts about drugs and drug use at a younger age instead of trying to keep drugs some sort of hidden taboo that every parent just hopes their kids don't ever encounter in real life.


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OfflineRemix
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: blazenn]
    #14353358 - 04/26/11 02:48 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Also, remember, prohibition was tried before with alcohol and the more parallels you can draw between the two situations, the better. It is an effective example of a legalization reform being implemented with arguable success.


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Invisibleblazenn
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: Remix]
    #14355019 - 04/26/11 12:33 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

you've gotta remember though that legalization and decriminalization WILL open the door to further and longer-lasting drug problems IF we don't have proper education and treatment on drugs in the first place.
the problem right now is that most parents are scared of drugs because they don't know much about them, or maybe they had a run in with drugs when they were younger, cleaned up, and blocked all the memories out of their mind and just labels every drug  as BAD. and the only thing they teach their kids about drugs is that they're BAD and to stay away, but if we told our kids WHY the drugs are bad and told them about the real consequences then maybe our kids would think twice before hanging out with people who they know smoke meth.
it really has alot to do with how parents are raising their kids in the first place. many kids that i know are very sheltered and their parents just lie to them about all the things the parents dont want them to get into. so of course once the realize how great weed is or how good it feels to roll on ecstasy, the kids think FUCK drugs are GREAT i wanna try more drugs!!!! and they expand to heavier things like cocaine, meth, and even heroin....atleast that's how my story went. (never done H though, probly would've if i knew someone into it when i was still experimenting but im past that phase now)


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Offlinepouihi
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: Mad_Larkin]
    #14355486 - 04/26/11 02:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mad_Larkin said:
And Portugal.




Why Portugal?? The only drug legal here is alcohol and salvia, altough salvia is probably legal because there's few knowledge about it and no legislation made for salvinorin yet.

Portugal decriminalized the possession of the equivalent to a medium individual dose for ten days, but you're not allowed to buy it, sell it or use it.
It's also more theoretical than anything else because if a cop catches you it doesn't always work that way, specially with hashish which is very common here.

But shadowplay I think your project is interesting, when I started to read your post I was thinking "drug legalization" so I think it's a great idea.
Drug legalization can bring great benefits such as granting quality products (not cut with fucked chemicals), also have adequate places which can grant you sanitary conditions.

A few years ago here in Portugal the government was talking about creating "kick rooms" for heroin addicts, where they could sell clean product, five them clean syringes, and try to avoid od situations, that idea never went through though.
I think the Holland is a very good starting point.

But I definitely agree that people still have a lot to learn about drugs, so creating some program to educate them would also be a good point.


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"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."


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InvisibleMad_Larkin

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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: pouihi]
    #14357709 - 04/26/11 09:02 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Isn't decriminalisation good enough for you?


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OfflineRemix
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: Mad_Larkin]
    #14357810 - 04/26/11 09:22 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Decriminalization, while an acceptable change in an incremental sense, doesn't take the black market underground out of the overall picture. When you still have gangs and cartels running the production/distribution end of "illegal drug distribution", this isn't much of a solution.

Most of the problems related to drugs are actually problems related to the prohibition of said drugs. Decriminalization just prevents possessors (depending on the legal definition of "possession") from being prosecuted. However, said illegal drug is still monopolized (as far as "sales" are concerned) by criminal organizations and other such "dissidents" when drugs are "decriminalized".


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Edited by Remix (04/27/11 11:11 AM)


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OfflineMello KittyS
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: shadowplay]
    #14357896 - 04/26/11 09:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

i love JOY DIVISION :happyheart:



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Invisibleshadowplay
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: Mello Kitty]
    #14358686 - 04/26/11 11:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks for all the responses guys. After doing more research and reading what you guys have to say, I've decided not to focus much on decriminalization. Instead I'll focus on lessening sentences, diversion programs, needle programs, better education, and lessening the racial bias in arrests. Also, as an article I found pointed out "America doesn't have a drug problem, it has a poverty problem." If we stop putting so many people in prison over drugs, there would be a lot more money to help the poor and indirectly reduce drug problems.

ellenallien, I love you:grin:


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InvisibleyogabunnyM
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: blazenn]
    #14358809 - 04/26/11 11:41 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

blazenn said:
you've gotta remember though that legalization and decriminalization WILL open the door to further and longer-lasting drug problems IF we don't have proper education and treatment on drugs in the first place.






we can't HAVE proper education and better treatment until these drugs are unscheduled and we can continue with thorough clinical and scientific research.


also, OP, i think this website may be of some help to you: http://www.countthecosts.org/


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InvisibleMad_Larkin

Registered: 11/29/07
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: Remix]
    #14358818 - 04/26/11 11:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Remix said:
Decriminalization, while an acceptable change in an incremental sense, doesn't take the black market underground out of the overall picture. When you still have gangs and cartels running the production/distribution end of "illegal drug distribution", prohibition isn't much of a solution.

Most of the problems related to drugs are actually problems related to the prohibition of said drugs. Decriminalization just prevents possessors (depending on the legal definition of "possession") from being prosecuted. However, said illegal drug is still monopolized (as far as "sales" are concerned) by criminal organizations and other such "dissidents" when drugs are "decriminalized".




Yeah true. I didn't think about it like that.


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InvisibleyogabunnyM
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: shadowplay] * 1
    #14358832 - 04/26/11 11:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

shadowplay said:
Thanks for all the responses guys. After doing more research and reading what you guys have to say, I've decided not to focus much on decriminalization. Instead I'll focus on lessening sentences, diversion programs, needle programs, better education, and lessening the racial bias in arrests. Also, as an article I found pointed out "America doesn't have a drug problem, it has a poverty problem." If we stop putting so many people in prison over drugs, there would be a lot more money to help the poor and indirectly reduce drug problems.

ellenallien, I love you:grin:





just saw this.  blah.  that's so safe and apathetic.  also a lot of those things have already been done, and have already failed.  the drug war is a big beast, and we need big change.  diversion programs don't do shit anyway, thanks to the patriot act, and like i said how can we provide better education if we can't study most of these drugs? 

we can't stop putting people in prison over drugs unless we change the laws that allow law enforcement to do so.


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Invisibleblazenn
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: yogabunny]
    #14359293 - 04/27/11 01:50 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

yogabunny said:
Quote:

blazenn said:
you've gotta remember though that legalization and decriminalization WILL open the door to further and longer-lasting drug problems IF we don't have proper education and treatment on drugs in the first place.






we can't HAVE proper education and better treatment until these drugs are unscheduled and we can continue with thorough clinical and scientific research.


also, OP, i think this website may be of some help to you: http://www.countthecosts.org/




im just curious why you think we have to have all drugs legalized before we can have proper education regarding them. care to elaborate?


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OfflineRemix
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: blazenn]
    #14359768 - 04/27/11 06:57 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

blazenn said:
im just curious why you think we have to have all drugs legalized before we can have proper education regarding them. care to elaborate?




I'm not sure exactly what yogabunny's reasoning is but, AFAIK, most scheduled drugs (especially schedule 1) have severe or total restrictions regarding proper testing and experiments that would make comprehensive eduction about said illegal drugs a possibility.

Also, as I said before, decriminalization isn't really an effective way to prevent "drug problems". You still have an unregulated black market at work, which means two things: 1)  the quality and purity of products is far more questionable and unpredictable than within a regulated legal drug market and 2) gangs and cartels are still handling most of the distribution. The fact that these qualities of prohibition still persist, despite decriminalization, means that overdoses and misuse are still just about as likely as before and "drug-funded gang/cartel violence" will carry on as though total prohibition were still intact.


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Edited by Remix (04/27/11 06:58 AM)


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Offlinenice1
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: shadowplay]
    #14359775 - 04/27/11 07:00 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Regulate and educate, make it a public health issue not a criminal one - all information coming from more tolerant countries as proven this is the most effective solution.

For example - more people smoke cannabis per head in the UK and USA than in the netherlands where its use is tolerated and it is openly sold.

Once the dealers are out of action, new user rates plummet.  Doctors prescribe a dose of the drug to existing adddicts and it loses its novelty appeal / street availability etc and the dealers cannot sell anymore because its abailable for less or free by visiting and addiction public health center.

It would at least half if not drop completely addict / crime levels and the gov knows and has known for a long time.  The UK gov actively ignored all the data and our many scientists pubicly quit over the blatent corruption that is occuring.

Crime is a business, drugs are a business and keeping things the same is the name of their game.  They don't want the solution - that much has been made VERY VERY obvious.  You can draw  your own conclusions as to why that is :money:


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InvisibleTTT
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: nice1] * 1
    #14359842 - 04/27/11 07:26 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

All drugs should be legalized because humans will always seek any drugs.

There is really no good reason, in my eyes, to keep anything illegal. Even amphetamines, crack and opiates. It should come down to treating drug abuse as a symptom of greater problems in that persons life, not the sole problem. We also need to take responsibility for what we do as individuals. Calling drug addiction a disease and treating its users like criminals doesn't help a struggling person on any level, especially psychologically.

Op, I am jealous you get to write on this. This is one of the few topics I could write PAGES and pages on.


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Invisibleblazenn
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: Remix]
    #14360073 - 04/27/11 08:47 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Remix said:
Quote:

blazenn said:
im just curious why you think we have to have all drugs legalized before we can have proper education regarding them. care to elaborate?




I'm not sure exactly what yogabunny's reasoning is but, AFAIK, most scheduled drugs (especially schedule 1) have severe or total restrictions regarding proper testing and experiments that would make comprehensive eduction about said illegal drugs a possibility.





wtf kind of experiments or testing do you need to do to learn the negative effects of drugs???? millions of americans are already guinea pigs for that kind of experiment every day...


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InvisibleyogabunnyM
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: blazenn]
    #14360198 - 04/27/11 09:25 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

blazenn said:
Quote:

yogabunny said:
Quote:

blazenn said:
you've gotta remember though that legalization and decriminalization WILL open the door to further and longer-lasting drug problems IF we don't have proper education and treatment on drugs in the first place.






we can't HAVE proper education and better treatment until these drugs are unscheduled and we can continue with thorough clinical and scientific research.


also, OP, i think this website may be of some help to you: http://www.countthecosts.org/




im just curious why you think we have to have all drugs legalized before we can have proper education regarding them. care to elaborate?





Do you understand the concept of scheduling?  Schedule 1 substances "have a high potential for abuse" and "o currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States" and "a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision."

Erowid is a great source but we need more research and clinical testing (IMO) in order to provide solid, sound education with regard to long term effects and dosage advice.


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OfflineRemix
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: blazenn] * 1
    #14360215 - 04/27/11 09:30 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

blazenn said:
Quote:

Remix said:
Quote:

blazenn said:
im just curious why you think we have to have all drugs legalized before we can have proper education regarding them. care to elaborate?




I'm not sure exactly what yogabunny's reasoning is but, AFAIK, most scheduled drugs (especially schedule 1) have severe or total restrictions regarding proper testing and experiments that would make comprehensive eduction about said illegal drugs a possibility.





wtf kind of experiments or testing do you need to do to learn the negative effects of drugs???? millions of americans are already guinea pigs for that kind of experiment every day...




I agree. Plus, when drugs are illegal the funds to find things wrong with them are more than adequately covered. T. Mckenna once said that more money has been put forward trying to find something wrong with marijuana than any other drug and IMO he's more than right.

However, finding the positive effects of drug use are just as important, if not, moreso than the negative effects with regards to "drug education". Many of these positive effects are completely ignored and elude study because of current scheduling/prohibition.

Also, mind you, under prohibition, which would still be the case even if drugs were decriminalized (remember: all "decriminalization" means is users don't get arrested for a specified amount of drugs; anything defined as trafficking or "intent to sell" will still be quite illegal), there's still a stigma against the illegal drugs that will allow rhetoric and misinformation to be justified. You can try and educate people all you want but until these drugs are out in the open, and people who use them are given the sense that their actions are culturally sanctioned, the correct information will still be suppressed and open discussion will be considered dissident.

When a culture still has a "good drugs - bad drugs" (IE: Legal and Illegal drugs) stance then proper education regarding ALL drugs and their use can never really be achieved because there is still support for the notion that a society can be "drug free" (or, in reality, free of drugs the government doesn't particularly approve of).


I don't really understand what you think decriminalization achieves. From my observation it's just a way to show that society won't collapse if you let people use/posses drugs without being imprisoned (they are still fined, though). But, it isn't much of a solution to "the drug war" and the problems facilitated by prohibition.


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Offlinepouihi
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: Mad_Larkin]
    #14360468 - 04/27/11 10:34 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mad_Larkin said:
Isn't decriminalisation good enough for you?




It's not enough when in practice it works as prohibition.
Try being caught in Portugal with 10 gr of cocaine and see what happens.
It's bullshit because it only works on paper.
It's also stupid because the same substances that you're allegedly allowed to carry have active principles that are prohibited.
It doesn't work that way, in order to buy drugs you need someone to sell (since growing is prohibited) them and sale is only possible through drug dealers since there isn't one single legal place that sells them, so... no, not enough... :shrug:


--------------------


"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."


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Invisiblebigmike7104
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: pouihi]
    #14360528 - 04/27/11 10:52 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Try being caught in Portugal with 10 gr of cocaine and see what happens




but it isn't under a certain amount and you don't get charged with anything?


--------------------
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind
Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must
Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines


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Offlinepouihi
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: bigmike7104]
    #14360568 - 04/27/11 11:05 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

bigmike7104 said:
Quote:

Try being caught in Portugal with 10 gr of cocaine and see what happens




but it isn't under a certain amount and you don't get charged with anything?




Supposedly the amount decriminalized is the equivalent to a medium personal dose enough for 10 days (which in itself is stupid being that some doses can vary so much depending on the user).

Basically this legislation was made to distinguish personal use from traffic.
If you're caught with the stipulated decriminalized amount you will not be charged of traffic, but you will have to pay a fee and your drugs will be apprehended :shrug:


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"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."


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InvisibleyogabunnyM
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: TTT]
    #14360586 - 04/27/11 11:09 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

TTT said:
All drugs should be legalized because humans will always seek any drugs.

There is really no good reason, in my eyes, to keep anything illegal. Even amphetamines, crack and opiates. It should come down to treating drug abuse as a symptom of greater problems in that persons life, not the sole problem. We also need to take responsibility for what we do as individuals. Calling drug addiction a disease and treating its users like criminals doesn't help a struggling person on any level, especially psychologically.

Op, I am jealous you get to write on this. This is one of the few topics I could write PAGES and pages on.





this


decriminlization is like a small step in the right direction, but look at how long the war on drugs has lasted...do we really want to commit to another policy that's not going to do all too much to change all the many issues that plague our society due to drug prohibition?


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Invisiblebigmike7104
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: yogabunny]
    #14360637 - 04/27/11 11:22 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

^yup, even some animals regularly do drugs


--------------------
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind
Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must
Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines


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OfflineHalsfield

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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: bigmike7104]
    #14360790 - 04/27/11 12:05 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

We teach our kids about sex, educate them on all the nasty details of STDs, pregnancy, using protection, etc. Not in the hopes that young teens will be having sex all over the place, but in the hopes that IF they do encounter it they will know everything they need to do to stay safe or at least be able to make the choice to stay safe.

Then when it comes to drugs which are even more dangerous we go with an abstinence approach instead of a harm reduction approach.  Completely stupid.

The war on drugs has done nothing but made things 100x more violent and dangerous and funneled billions overseas to drug warlords.  End it just like we did alcohol prohibition and for the same reasons.


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OfflineI AM SWIM
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: bigmike7104]
    #14360819 - 04/27/11 12:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

bigmike7104 said:
^yup, even some animals regularly do drugs







:feelshighman:


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Invisiblebigmike7104
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: I AM SWIM]
    #14360827 - 04/27/11 12:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Jaguar tripping
i love the still frame when you hit play. he's on his back staring up at the sky  :lol:



:awecid:


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OfflineI AM SWIM
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: bigmike7104]
    #14360834 - 04/27/11 12:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

bigmike7104 said:
Jaguar tripping



:awecid:




LOL wow

never saw tat one before


that jaguar is :trippnballs: :lol: :feelsgoodman:

that's so amaaaaazing, never knew they liked doin' :awecid: thangs

:Feelstrippyman:

:themoreyouknow:


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InvisibleMad_Larkin

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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: I AM SWIM]
    #14360845 - 04/27/11 12:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I AM SWIM said:
Quote:

bigmike7104 said:
^yup, even some animals regularly do drugs







:feelshighman:




I remember watching the documentary that's from before. Anyone know what it's called? I wanna watch it again.

:awebig: :Feelstrippyman:


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: shadowplay]
    #14360926 - 04/27/11 12:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Perhaps you might want to consider the idea of eliminating inner city housing projects entirely.  By putting all members of a failed class together in one large segregated group you create a Crime Petri dish in which the infection never gets a chance to die off.

It's not that they use drugs but how they use drugs.


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Invisibleshadowplay
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14361750 - 04/27/11 03:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

As much as I support full legalization, I think that topic is really beyond the scope of this class, and I really need a decent grade on this paper.

Zappa, you have a good point, but do you have any viable alternatives in mind?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: shadowplay]
    #14361789 - 04/27/11 03:41 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

No more housing projects.  Vouchers.  Spread 'em around into small buildings not all in the same neighborhood.  Racial and class homogeneity just ensures that nothing will change.


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Invisibleshadowplay
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Re: Writing a paper on combatting inner-city drug problems [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14361933 - 04/27/11 04:02 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

That's a good idea :thumbup:
I'll look into that.


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