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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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I sort of believe that everyone can change, even older people...
#14352390 - 04/25/11 10:37 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Is this naive of me?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Greenvalley
PRS



Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 2,033
Loc: Why not?
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: I sort of believe that everyone can change, even older people... [Re: Poid]
#14352410 - 04/25/11 10:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I agree with you, peoples brains are plastic. It is only based on the degree of how strongly you cling to ideas that determin how easily youll change or not change, and all ideas are subjective projections. Thats what I think
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Ganjabonga
Chief



Registered: 10/07/08
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Loc: Washington
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Re: I sort of believe that everyone can change, even older people... [Re: Poid]
#14352421 - 04/25/11 10:41 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Everyone? Wouldnt say that, but people definitely have the innate ability to make a change for the better if they themselves want to. Living and learning for the better is a pretty simple concept but it is far out of grasp for many.
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Greenvalley
PRS



Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 2,033
Loc: Why not?
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: I sort of believe that everyone can change, even older people... [Re: Ganjabonga]
#14352431 - 04/25/11 10:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Its all a choice in the end
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: I sort of believe that everyone can change, even older people... [Re: Ganjabonga]
#14352456 - 04/25/11 10:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Greenvalley said: I agree with you, peoples brains are plastic.
I'd be interested in the neuroplastic qualities of older people...
Quote:
Greenvalley said: It is only based on the degree of how strongly you cling to ideas that determin how easily youll change or not change, and all ideas are subjective projections. Thats what I think
Yeah, but can't some people cling so strongly to certain ideas that it is practically impossible for them to dump the said ideas?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Greenvalley
PRS



Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 2,033
Loc: Why not?
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: I sort of believe that everyone can change, even older people... [Re: Poid]
#14352482 - 04/25/11 10:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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It may seem impossible to them, but it is ALWAYS a choice when it comes to beliefs/ideas/positionalities.
I have heard that there is new growth of brain cells all throughout life, always new paper to write on
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: I sort of believe that everyone can change, even older people... [Re: Greenvalley]
#14352511 - 04/25/11 10:55 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Greenvalley said: It may seem impossible to them, but it is ALWAYS a choice when it comes to beliefs/ideas/positionalities.
Some choices are very hard to make, though, even downright impossible. 
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Greenvalley said: I have heard that there is new growth of brain cells all throughout life, always new paper to write on
Hey, maybe there is hope! 
Neuroplasticity
Quote:
...plasticity exists from cradle to the grave, and that radical improvements in cognitive functioning - how we learn, think, perceive, and remember are possible even in the elderly.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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donteatasians


Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1,461
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Re: I sort of believe that everyone can change, even older people... [Re: Greenvalley]
#14352533 - 04/25/11 10:59 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think people can change at any age. However ther is a huge difference between can and will. Old folk probably don't have as much of a desire to change due to having gotten as far as they have in life the way they are. I think it's just a matter of not having any "good" reason to care to change.
can change = not naive will change =naive
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Edited by donteatasians (04/25/11 11:03 PM)
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: I sort of believe that everyone can change, even older people... [Re: donteatasians]
#14352543 - 04/25/11 11:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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donteatasians
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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donteatasians


Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1,461
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Re: I sort of believe that everyone can change, even older people... [Re: Poid]
#14352563 - 04/25/11 11:06 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said: donteatasians
Too fuckin stringy, need more meat. Yellow meat doesn't sound too tasty either.
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Sleepwalker
Overshoes


Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
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Re: I sort of believe that everyone can change, even older people... [Re: donteatasians]
#14352582 - 04/25/11 11:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
donteatasians said: can change = not naive will change =naive
It is interesting that plasticity can be "overruled" by stubbornness. Yet choice is just another brain function.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: I sort of believe that everyone can change, even older people... [Re: donteatasians]
#14352586 - 04/25/11 11:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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donteatasians


Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1,461
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Re: I sort of believe that everyone can change, even older people... [Re: Sleepwalker]
#14352637 - 04/25/11 11:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Oweyervishice said:
Quote:
donteatasians said: can change = not naive will change =naive
It is interesting that plasticity can be "overruled" by stubbornness. Yet choice is just another brain function.
Overweight people can change their diet, many don't however. I also think that the longer a person continues a habit the less likely they are to change it. It's often easier to just keep on truckin the same way than try something that's uncertain.
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Sleepwalker
Overshoes


Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
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Re: I sort of believe that everyone can change, even older people... [Re: donteatasians]
#14352656 - 04/25/11 11:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Oh I agree. It just seems that if we knew more about how specifically willpower functions in the brain, we might include an unwillingness to change in our definitions of how plastic a person's brain is.
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donteatasians


Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1,461
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Re: I sort of believe that everyone can change, even older people... [Re: Poid]
#14352672 - 04/25/11 11:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:

You have a good point, however I'm not gonna try to eat something that could eat me with greater ease, too risky.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: I sort of believe that everyone can change, even older people... [Re: Sleepwalker]
#14352696 - 04/25/11 11:25 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm not so sure that a person's willpower affects their brain's neuroplasticity to a significant degree--neuroplasticity refers to the ability of the brain to change as a result of one's experience, and a person's brain will change as a result of their experience (which includes all their sensory perceptions) regardless of their willpower.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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donteatasians


Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1,461
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Re: I sort of believe that everyone can change, even older people... [Re: Sleepwalker] 1
#14352704 - 04/25/11 11:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Oweyervishice said: Oh I agree. It just seems that if we knew more about how specifically willpower functions in the brain, we might include an unwillingness to change in our definitions of how plastic a person's brain is.
I think it's just a matter of incentive, they would probably be willing to change if the reward was more valuable to them than what they need to give up. It's hard to judge the value of a reward you've never expirienced though and know if it's worth the effort or sacrifice.
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donteatasians


Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1,461
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Re: I sort of believe that everyone can change, even older people... [Re: Poid]
#14352727 - 04/25/11 11:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said: I'm not so sure that a person's willpower affects their brain's neuroplasticity to a significant degree--neuroplasticity refers to the ability of the brain to change as a result of one's experience, and a person's brain will change as a result of their experience (which includes all their sensory perceptions) regardless of their willpower.
So stubbornness is a symptom of poor neuroplasticity? This is essentially how well and how quickly a person can learn then, isn't it?
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: I sort of believe that everyone can change, even older people... [Re: donteatasians]
#14352756 - 04/25/11 11:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
donteatasians said:
Quote:
Poid said: I'm not so sure that a person's willpower affects their brain's neuroplasticity to a significant degree--neuroplasticity refers to the ability of the brain to change as a result of one's experience, and a person's brain will change as a result of their experience (which includes all their sensory perceptions) regardless of their willpower.
So stubbornness is a symptom of poor neuroplasticity?
I'm actually suggesting that there is no necessary connection between the two, due to the fact that a person's brain will change as a result of their experience (which includes all their sensory perceptions) regardless of whether or not they have strong willpower/are very stubborn. 
I have not read any evidence which suggests that there may be a necessary connection between the two, but I'd be very interested seeing some.
Quote:
donteatasians said: This is essentially how well and how quickly a person can learn then, isn't it?
Well, plasticity relates to learning by adding or removing connections, or adding cells, so I would think yes. 
However, I don't think this implies a necessary connection between stubbornness/willpower and neuroplasticity--a person may be stubborn and still be able to learn well, and a person may be not stubborn at all and be poor at learning. 
Also, a person may have strong willpower and have a low degree of neuroplasticity, and a person may have weak willpower and have a high degree of neuroplasticity.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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c0sm0nautt

Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
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Re: I sort of believe that everyone can change, even older people... [Re: Poid]
#14352786 - 04/25/11 11:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Free will exists in every moment, however within a probable reality surface.
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