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InvisiblePoid
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Can one be both realistic and optimistic about paranormal phenomena?
    #14347833 - 04/25/11 07:45 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What do you think?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Edited by Poid (04/15/12 06:25 PM)

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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: Can one be both realistic and optimistic about paranormal phenomenon? [Re: Poid]
    #14347847 - 04/25/11 07:50 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If I am optimistic that I can make it closer to the real honest truth, being as realistic as possible about everything would be my best move.

If you mean that by disbelieving in the paranormal we suffer somehow (lack of death anxiety shields if you like), perhaps it is possible to be realistic while still leaning on some partial hope+dream brain structures when needed?

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Can one be both realistic and optimistic about paranormal phenomenon? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #14347875 - 04/25/11 07:59 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
...perhaps it is possible to be realistic while still leaning on some partial hope+dream brain structures when needed?


I don't think so--leaning towards such structures, however needed they may be, is unrealistic.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleBrainstem
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Re: Can one be both realistic and optimistic about paranormal phenomenon? [Re: Poid]
    #14347878 - 04/25/11 07:59 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Realistically I haven't seen a ghost, or a ufo, or a man levitate (except D.Blaine, freaked me out until I saw the trick being rehearsed on the web.). Things like synchronicity and anecdotal experiences I am more optimistic about, but like Bonjovi said " baby that's just me ". :smile:

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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: Can one be both realistic and optimistic about paranormal phenomenon? [Re: Poid]
    #14347885 - 04/25/11 08:01 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Unrealistic, I suppose, but not unreasonable.  Not necessarily even irrational.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Can one be both realistic and optimistic about paranormal phenomenon? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #14347892 - 04/25/11 08:03 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
Unrealistic, I suppose, but not unreasonable.


Sure, but this thread isn't about being reasonable and realistic, it's about being optimistic in regards to paranormal phenomenon and realistic.


Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
Not necessarily even irrational.


Care to elaborate? I think I disagree.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: Can one be both realistic and optimistic about paranormal phenomenon? [Re: Poid]
    #14347934 - 04/25/11 08:15 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'm not really sure what you mean by "optimistic about paranormal phenomenon".  Can you put it another way?




Not necessarily even irrational

Being rational is obviously a huge part of being realistic, they are nearly synonyms.
Since we are talking about optimism, can we agree that attempting to maximize happiness is one aspect of a rational mind? Is knowingly adopting a possibly "false" mental shield in order to preserve the emotional self an irrational move?

I see this as depending on what level the individual, through more-or-less rational thinking, values emotional well-being vs intellectual integrity. 
I think we've gone on this tangent before; at what point is honoring the emotions irrational?

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Can one be both realistic and optimistic about paranormal phenomenon? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #14347967 - 04/25/11 08:26 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
I'm not really sure what you mean by "optimistic about paranormal phenomenon".  Can you put it another way?


Being optimistic that paranormal phenomenon actually exist.


Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
Not necessarily even irrational

Being rational is obviously a huge part of being realistic, they are nearly synonyms.
Since we are talking about optimism, can we agree that attempting to maximize happiness is one aspect of a rational mind?


Wouldn't the desire to maximize happiness be purely emotion-driven? :smirk:


Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
Is knowingly adopting a possibly "false" mental shield in order to preserve the emotional self an irrational move?


I would think so, especially if that false mental shield is an irrational one.


Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
....at what point is honoring the emotions irrational?


At the point where you adopt irrational beliefs in order to maintain emotional stability.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: Can one be both realistic and optimistic about paranormal phenomenon? [Re: Poid]
    #14348451 - 04/25/11 10:52 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't see rationality as being so divorced from the emotions.  It seems like the motivation to tend to one's thought processes rationally is tightly tied to the emotions; one likes to feel that one has a strong, healthy, and/or in this case realistic, view and "technique" in life.

"Rationality deals with the ratio of benefits to costs. A rational decision is one that is not just reasoned, but is also optimal for achieving a goal or solving a problem."
Like the problem of constructing or preserving a balanced emotional personality.  Maybe I'm grasping at linguistic straws here, but I feel like pure emotionally void rationality can not exist in the average human mind.  It seems to me that the drive to reason is based in emotional processes...:shrug:


Anyway, sorry I got a bit sidetracked. 

Can one be both realistic and optimistic about paranormal phenomenon?
If you don't mind, let's set aside, for now, the part of this question involving the paranormal. 
Can one be both realistic and optimistic?
Optimism is "having hopefulness and confidence about the future or successful outcome of something; a tendency to take a favourable or hopeful view".
I don't think that is necessarily unrealistic.  Hoping implies that you are aware that things might not go the way you want.  That's the very reason you need to hope. 

I don't know, I'm just pulling things out of my ass.  What do you think?

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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: Can one be both realistic and optimistic about paranormal phenomenon? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #14349418 - 04/25/11 02:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I think one can be perfectly optimistic without paranormal phenomenon.

I'm going to die and return to nothingness, yes, but that's also where I came from. We return to the void, and the void returns to us. There's no escape, so might as well become okay with it.

'Round and 'round we go.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Can one be both realistic and optimistic about paranormal phenomenon? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #14349847 - 04/25/11 03:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
Maybe I'm grasping at linguistic straws here, but I feel like pure emotionally void rationality can not exist in the average human mind.


Why do you say "in the average human mind"? :undecided:


Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
It seems to me that the drive to reason is based in emotional processes...:shrug:


It could be argued that emotional processes are based on reason.


Quote:

Oweyervishice said:
Anyway, sorry I got a bit sidetracked. 

Can one be both realistic and optimistic about paranormal phenomenon?
If you don't mind, let's set aside, for now, the part of this question involving the paranormal. 
Can one be both realistic and optimistic?
Optimism is "having hopefulness and confidence about the future or successful outcome of something; a tendency to take a favourable or hopeful view".
I don't think that is necessarily unrealistic.  Hoping implies that you are aware that things might not go the way you want.  That's the very reason you need to hope. 

I don't know, I'm just pulling things out of my ass.  What do you think?


I think that optimism for the existence of paranormal phenomenon is necessarily excessive optimism due to the lack of evidence in support of their existence, and the wealth of evidence which suggests that they  are bullshit. Being excessively optimistic is not being realistic, therefore, one cannot be both realistic and optimistic about paranormal phenomena.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Edited by Poid (04/15/12 06:30 PM)

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Offlinezoomfan
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Re: Can one be both realistic and optimistic about paranormal phenomenon? [Re: Poid]
    #14350204 - 04/25/11 05:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

i dont really think its irrational to be optimistic about it because the absence of evidence isnt the evidence of absence. really there's no more evidence that there is paranormal phenomenon than there isnt. that being said i prefer not to believe in it because why believe in something without evidence. in regards to being optimistic i will say i dont think its illogical to be, just as its not illogical to be optimistic about how your days gonna go, ya never know.


--------------------
Thinking is dreaming wake up and enjoy the dream.

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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: Can one be both realistic and optimistic about paranormal phenomenon? [Re: zoomfan]
    #14350352 - 04/25/11 05:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I disagree that "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." We have pretty good reason to believe that paranormal phenomena are not a reality (not in this Universe, at least). If something is not found through rigorous, empirical investigation, that is a good reason to discount its existence, IMO.

I do agree with the last thing you said, though: "its not illogical to be optimistic about how your days gonna go, ya never know," which is why I say it's perfectly possible to be philosophically optimistic without believing in spirits.


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Offlinezoomfan
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Re: Can one be both realistic and optimistic about paranormal phenomenon? [Re: NetDiver]
    #14350650 - 04/25/11 06:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

my personal opinion is that there is no way in hell there are ghosts or anything like that but i know that opinion is somewhat arrogant because who am i to say that just because we're not aware of something it doesnt exist? at some point most facts we know today were considered unsubstantiated, its good to adopt a radical skepticism about things, including about what may not exist. solid beliefs, are just dangerous philosophically speaking imo. but i give myself very good advice but very seldom follow it. so objectively who knows, personally i might as well believe in santa claus


--------------------
Thinking is dreaming wake up and enjoy the dream.

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Can one be both realistic and optimistic about paranormal phenomenon? [Re: Poid]
    #14350735 - 04/25/11 06:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Is 'real' always 'normal' ?
Some things which are real might not fit into norms maybe.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Can one be both realistic and optimistic about paranormal phenomenon? [Re: Poid]
    #14350935 - 04/25/11 07:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

what if reality is just totally awesome


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss

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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: Can one be both realistic and optimistic about paranormal phenomenon? [Re: g00ru]
    #14351155 - 04/25/11 07:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Then :awebig:


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Can one be both realistic and optimistic about paranormal phenomenon? [Re: NetDiver]
    #14351380 - 04/25/11 08:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:awebig: indeed


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Can one be both realistic and optimistic about paranormal phenomenon? [Re: g00ru]
    #14351651 - 04/25/11 08:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It's not, though. :satansmoking:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Can one be both realistic and optimistic about paranormal phenomenon? [Re: Poid]
    #14357127 - 04/26/11 07:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

maybe for you


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss

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