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stepup.stepout
Lurk moar

Registered: 02/12/11
Posts: 107
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Connection between psychedelics and Buddhism
#14350437 - 04/25/11 05:42 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Why has there been such a deep connection in the psychedelic community between psychedelics and Buddhism? I'm just interested in how this connection got started and why psychedelic art is so connected to it. Of course there is a very deep spiritual connection, but why this religion in particular?
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joemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
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Re: Connection between psychedelics and Buddhism [Re: stepup.stepout]
#14350875 - 04/25/11 06:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I started reading about Buddhist enlightenment, getting into both the popular and traditional literature. Shortly after, on ayahuasca trips I'd experience textbook states of Nirvana and enlightenment. It still gives me the chills. But then I'd read Plato and his ideas would go from abstract to almost physical manifestations of themselves during my trips. Shit, after filling myself with biology books before a trip, I'd experience DNA molecular transformations through time. Seriously. If DNA has feelings, I felt them. Anyway, I think people drawn to Buddhism are also drawn to psychedelics because of that whole laid back Hippy attitude where everything is relative maaaan. Add the two together and you have self-reinforcing and self-fulfilling trips where the drug inflates the ideas and the ideas direct the drug.
To be fair, I had the God of the Old Testament come to me in my living room and started yelling at him, demanding answers and eventually said, "Fuck you." I really do have balls of steel. My grandmother always shook her head in dismay at this story. I miss you, grandma.
-------------------- Don't PM me with bullshit. I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.
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doses
Obsessive Purist



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Re: Connection between psychedelics and Buddhism [Re: stepup.stepout]
#14351247 - 04/25/11 07:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Log in to view attachment
Are Psychedelics Useful in the Practice of Buddhism? By Myron J. Stolaroff
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gornyhuy
A Myth Intrepidly Met



Registered: 08/04/09
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Re: Connection between psychedelics and Buddhism [Re: doses]
#14351586 - 04/25/11 08:46 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I gotta say, I like the kinder gentler JoeMolloy.
Thanks for the download, doses!
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Nunbuh_Chrubble
I'm just a kittycat


Registered: 01/23/06
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Re: Connection between psychedelics and Buddhism [Re: gornyhuy]
#14352690 - 04/25/11 11:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Good question OP.
I feel like I should have an articulated response because my spirituality is basically orthodox theravadan buddhism, and I love to take psychedelics for spiritual purposes (as well as just plain ol' fun purposes, but what's the difference really? )
But I don't really know how to answer that question except by saying that buddhism, for me, offers the best model for understanding reality, and especially the mystical states that I've reached on psychedelics. But then again maybe they simply inform each other.
Really though, I think that most people have a very distorted view/understanding of what the Buddha actually taught, and misinterpret it as "everything is relative maaaan" as Joe put it, or that it's all about "be happy". Certainly the Buddha taught that all things exist dependently (or relatively) on each other, and his 8 Fold Path has the end of suffering as it's goal... but there's a difference that I think is lost on most people. Also, cultural trappings/traditions and syncretism have produced a lot of different flavors of buddhism that should be differentiated from the actual teachings themselves.
The heart of Buddhism lies on coming to terms with one's own mortality/impermanence, on understanding reality directly rather than theoretically or abstractly, and especially with understanding self-identity.
I think people make the mistake, both with psychedelics and buddhism, of believing that reality/self/etc, is an "illusion" and that what we need to if find what is ACTUALLY real. To perceive the true reality behind the illusion, or to find the "Higher Self" which sits in opposition to the "false ego" or some bullshit like that. The problem with that is that people end up searching very intently for something which doesn't exist. Yes the world has very illusory aspects and that's just something we have to deal with rather than trying to overcome.
Psychedelics definitely have a tendency to dissolve boundaries, especially the boundaries of the ego/identity. And I think this is really important and helpful in breaking through to a more realistic understanding of what identity really is. At least to the understanding that one CAN lose oneself, that the self is something malleable, and that awareness can exist outside of the framework of an identity. But having an egoless experience is not enlightenment (lol, like I should know how to define enlightenment!) and a lot of people fail to make this distinction.
Psychedelics also definitely force people to confront death in a very immediate sense. I mean one of the biggest things that freaks n00bs out when they trip is that "I thought I was dying/dead!!!" And the experienced people will just be like, "yeah dude, that's normal! LOL!"
Anyways, I hope that I helped answer your question, or at least stimulate some interesting discussion.
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"This day is a lover..." ~Rumi
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fantasticfungus
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Re: Connection between psychedelics and Buddhism [Re: Nunbuh_Chrubble]
#14353208 - 04/26/11 01:50 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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My wife's sister's husband is Thai and a Buddhist. When we went to see sisinlaw in Thailand it turned out that browinlaw is a picker. It was rainy season when we was there and bro was up early every morning to go out picking. Dunno what species of shroom he was picking, they was quite small ones though.
My Thai broinlaw turned out to be a chilled out type of person, he looks like a hippie, he makes a living drumming Pink floyd and other psycadelic progressive rock music in the discos and bars in Chiang Mai.
I can appreciate the "Buddhist's coming to terms with ones own mortality" when I think about my broinlaw and remember having chased him all around Chaing Mai on little 125cc motorcycles with our wife's on pillion. This was without protective clothing (my bike didnt have any brakes) and while constantly doing red-lights, overtakes and undertakes as well as my sisterinlaw being pissed out of her head on rice whiskey and us having to constantly emergency stop to prop her back up on her pillion seat.
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stepup.stepout
Lurk moar

Registered: 02/12/11
Posts: 107
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: Connection between psychedelics and Buddhism [Re: Nunbuh_Chrubble]
#14355351 - 04/26/11 01:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nunbuh_Chrubble said: Good question OP.
I feel like I should have an articulated response because my spirituality is basically orthodox theravadan buddhism, and I love to take psychedelics for spiritual purposes (as well as just plain ol' fun purposes, but what's the difference really? )
But I don't really know how to answer that question except by saying that buddhism, for me, offers the best model for understanding reality, and especially the mystical states that I've reached on psychedelics. But then again maybe they simply inform each other.
Really though, I think that most people have a very distorted view/understanding of what the Buddha actually taught, and misinterpret it as "everything is relative maaaan" as Joe put it, or that it's all about "be happy". Certainly the Buddha taught that all things exist dependently (or relatively) on each other, and his 8 Fold Path has the end of suffering as it's goal... but there's a difference that I think is lost on most people. Also, cultural trappings/traditions and syncretism have produced a lot of different flavors of buddhism that should be differentiated from the actual teachings themselves.
The heart of Buddhism lies on coming to terms with one's own mortality/impermanence, on understanding reality directly rather than theoretically or abstractly, and especially with understanding self-identity.
I think people make the mistake, both with psychedelics and buddhism, of believing that reality/self/etc, is an "illusion" and that what we need to if find what is ACTUALLY real. To perceive the true reality behind the illusion, or to find the "Higher Self" which sits in opposition to the "false ego" or some bullshit like that. The problem with that is that people end up searching very intently for something which doesn't exist. Yes the world has very illusory aspects and that's just something we have to deal with rather than trying to overcome.
Psychedelics definitely have a tendency to dissolve boundaries, especially the boundaries of the ego/identity. And I think this is really important and helpful in breaking through to a more realistic understanding of what identity really is. At least to the understanding that one CAN lose oneself, that the self is something malleable, and that awareness can exist outside of the framework of an identity. But having an egoless experience is not enlightenment (lol, like I should know how to define enlightenment!) and a lot of people fail to make this distinction.
Psychedelics also definitely force people to confront death in a very immediate sense. I mean one of the biggest things that freaks n00bs out when they trip is that "I thought I was dying/dead!!!" And the experienced people will just be like, "yeah dude, that's normal! LOL!"
Anyways, I hope that I helped answer your question, or at least stimulate some interesting discussion.
Very interesting reply, it's nice to know why people intake what they take and for what reasons. Another question: were you raised buddhist?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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Re: Connection between psychedelics and Buddhism [Re: stepup.stepout]
#14355920 - 04/26/11 03:47 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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here are a few crossover concepts
letting go - fundamental to buddhist practice and to self rescue or simply optimizing "the flow" while tripping. attention or interest - fundamental to buddhist practice and a core psychedelic direction. enlightenment - or liberation a reasonable goal for a tripper or for an acolyte. anatta - or no-self some overlap with ego loss no separation - the all is one or everything connected issue mara - illusion - the distractions or hallucinations that occur while meditating or tripping.
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Nunbuh_Chrubble
I'm just a kittycat


Registered: 01/23/06
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Re: Connection between psychedelics and Buddhism [Re: redgreenvines]
#14362247 - 04/27/11 04:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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No, I came to buddhism on my own. My household wasn't particularly religious, but my father did force us to go to Catholic Mass on Easter and Christmas, but that's it. My mother taught me to question the bible, which I was already inclined to do, at at a very young age.
For a while I was a declared atheist (at 10 years old! LOL!) but soon realized that I was more agnostic. And ever since then I had been on a quest to find the truth about reality, God, the soul, etc. Started learning about buddhism from the internet at age 13. It had a big influence on my beliefs, but it wasn't until 2008 (I was 22 years old) that a friend turned me on to the Pali Canon and I really began to study what the original teachings of the buddha were.
Personally, I was very confused about Buddhism until I read the original scriptures from the Pali Canon. I could find all kinds of interpretations where people would tell me what they thought about what the buddha taught, but nobody offered me direct quotes about what the buddha ACTUALLY said!
Recently there have been really great translations coming out by Bikkhu Bodhi and others under Wisdom Publications. These are probably the best, most coherent, and most understandable english translations ever printed. I highly recommend them to anyone who has a serious interest in studying buddhism.
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"This day is a lover..." ~Rumi
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aaa1000aaa
Stranger
Registered: 06/27/19
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Re: Connection between psychedelics and Buddhism [Re: Nunbuh_Chrubble]
#26083469 - 06/30/19 11:52 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Just registered and read your post. Wondering you still practicing Buhhdism and how it goes with your psychedelic experience? I have been thinking about the similarities between the two...
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connectedcosmos
Neti Neti



Registered: 02/07/15
Posts: 7,426
Loc: The Pathless Path
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Re: Connection between psychedelics and Buddhism [Re: aaa1000aaa]
#26083716 - 07/01/19 07:13 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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This thread is 8 years old
OP hasnt logged on in 7 years...

Good to see a joemolloy post tho
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 54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?
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feevers



Registered: 12/28/10
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Re: Connection between psychedelics and Buddhism [Re: aaa1000aaa]
#26083755 - 07/01/19 07:57 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
aaa1000aaa said: Just registered and read your post. Wondering you still practicing Buhhdism and how it goes with your psychedelic experience? I have been thinking about the similarities between the two...
redgreenvines' post is a great place to start
It's also intriguing that fMRI studies show striking similarities in certain brain activity between meditation and tripping, such as less activity in the default mode network.
The DMN does a lot, and is made up of brain structures thought to be vital in manufacturing our sense of self and adding depth/making sense of all the sensory input coming in. You could say it's a big part of the GUI that turns all the 0's and 1's into your computer's pretty, user-friendly desktop.
It could be that the DMN going offline leads to experiences where you better understand how illusory our normal daily reality is, which over time can lead to developing or relating to many buddhist ideas.
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Re: Connection between psychedelics and Buddhism [Re: feevers]
#26084036 - 07/01/19 11:19 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
feevers said: It could be that the DMN going offline leads to experiences where you better understand how illusory our normal daily reality is, which over time can lead to developing or relating to many buddhist ideas.
Or it could be that developing Buddhist ideas leads to the DMN "going offline" (unfortunately poor analogy though).
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Cjmckay



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Re: Connection between psychedelics and Buddhism [Re: PrimalSoup]
#26084094 - 07/01/19 11:53 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Wonder if the way psychedelics are being used to alleviate suffering have something to do with the attachment to desire?
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feevers



Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
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Re: Connection between psychedelics and Buddhism [Re: PrimalSoup]
#26085075 - 07/01/19 08:21 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Quote:
feevers said: It could be that the DMN going offline leads to experiences where you better understand how illusory our normal daily reality is, which over time can lead to developing or relating to many buddhist ideas.
Or it could be that developing Buddhist ideas leads to the DMN "going offline" (unfortunately poor analogy though).
What analogy is poor? If it's my use of 'offline' when talking about the DMN, then I guess I'd agree. I originally thought of water flowing through a drain that could use some Drain-O, but even that's not really fitting, because in the fMRI tests the input seems to become dispursed and find new routes and channels that are far from normal (some theorize as the cause of psychedelic synesthesia).
As far as the development of an idea causing anywhere near as much interference as true deep meditation or ingestion of a psychedelic drug... that seems like an immense stretch. Can you elaborate? I'd guess my brain when I'm reading and nodding along with dharmas is in a far different state than 20 minutes into a metta session.
Edited by feevers (07/02/19 02:23 PM)
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feevers



Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
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Re: Connection between psychedelics and Buddhism [Re: Cjmckay]
#26085096 - 07/01/19 08:31 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cjmckay said: Wonder if the way psychedelics are being used to alleviate suffering have something to do with the attachment to desire?
I would say for myself, they can encourage a deep respect and appreciation for what's right in front of me, what I already have. So yea, I never looked at it that way but there's this innate cessation of desire that occurs directly from psychedelic experience. For me at least. Judging by the trip reports I've read, it seems pretty common though.
It can just all be so fleeting. So easy to forget/ignore, and move back into old habits.
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mt cleverest
clevendafodil


Registered: 08/19/12
Posts: 2,348
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Re: Connection between psychedelics and Buddhism [Re: feevers]
#26086358 - 07/02/19 02:20 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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I am only psychological resistance to what happens but life doesnt need to be finagled like that.. but I shall proceed how I do despite my better intentions. If I cant tolerate it anymore I'm hope it will shift on its own
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mt cleverest
clevendafodil


Registered: 08/19/12
Posts: 2,348
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Re: Connection between psychedelics and Buddhism [Re: mt cleverest]
#26086393 - 07/02/19 02:39 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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how could you not care what happens tho? the drama and angst proceeds ... I tend to think peace isnt within circumstances but maybe around the drama...how would that work? life requires conflict. honestly I dont know a whole lot right now and it feels ok to say so. but I do know that I know I don't like when some things that happen happen. so the relief I seek would be to not think about it ? just dont think about it bro. somethings you do need to think about it and life does need to be finagled. plus maybe I want to think about it... yes I like to dwell on it
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FractalMind
Werewolf



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Re: Connection between psychedelics and Buddhism [Re: mt cleverest]
#26087114 - 07/02/19 10:09 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Back in the 60s a lot of Indian bhuddists came over to the US for music festivals (Ravi Shankar) some of them did psychedelics.. this was, besides ww2, Korea, and Vietnam, our first exposure to Easstern culture.
Siddhartha Gautama was an Indian Prince that went through a long arduous process that involved living with ascetics, meditation, and the temptation of evil spirits, among other things. This transformed him into the FIRST incarnation of the Bhudda. I think that specific story integrated perfectly with the 60s counterculture, idealistic, leaving their middle upper class families, and looking for some kind of "enlightenment."
Edited by FractalMind (07/02/19 10:10 PM)
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beforethedawn
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Re: Connection between psychedelics and Buddhism [Re: FractalMind] 1
#26087354 - 07/03/19 01:56 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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We are all one. There is only the Self. I am you.
Both Buddhism and psychedelics have this core message to teach.
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
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laughingdog
Stranger

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Re: Connection between psychedelics and Buddhism [Re: stepup.stepout]
#26088979 - 07/03/19 09:19 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
stepup.stepout said: Why has there been such a deep connection in the psychedelic community between psychedelics and Buddhism? I'm just interested in how this connection got started.... why this religion in particular?
old thread - but anyway
"why this religion in particular?" 1) because it teaches meditation, which is more lasting in its effects, than tripping. 2) it has detailed theory/psychology, & instructions that work with the meditation 3) there are numerous teachers
But without exploring it for one self, just like tripping, one won't really understand, what its about. The most direct and shortest introduction, to get a tiny taste is: 'Zen Flesh Zen Bones'
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=zen+flesh+zen+bones+free+pdf&atb=v167-1&ia=web
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