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OfflineJT
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should we let shell drill in the arctic?
    #14349728 - 04/25/11 03:37 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Shell spent $4billion surveying the arctic ocean for oil, and now they've been blocked by the EPA over unapproved carbon emissions? They cited concerns over the pollution saying that it may adversely affect the local villages, but the nearest village is 70 miles away from the site. Sounds more like the board just wanted to give shell the ol' middle finger.

We're gonna need the oil, may as well stop pussyfooting around it and just drill. These environmental agencies are good in theory but they're choking business like crazy. Here they say "sure spend 4 billion to check out the land, then we're gonna cockblock you at the last minute." They do it to all the power companies too. Blanket green policies are thrown down by feel good environmentalists with no knowledge of the industry that cost billions and are poorly set up or just plain ineffective. Kills jobs and all the while they still want more energy.


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OfflineThe_Ghost
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: JT]
    #14349737 - 04/25/11 03:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

JT said:
Shell spent $4billion surveying the arctic ocean for oil, and now they've been blocked by the EPA over unapproved carbon emissions? They cited concerns over the pollution saying that it may adversely affect the local villages, but the nearest village is 70 miles away from the site. Sounds more like the board just wanted to give shell the ol' middle finger.

We're gonna need the oil, may as well stop pussyfooting around it and just drill. These environmental agencies are good in theory but they're choking business like crazy. Here they say "sure spend 4 billion to check out the land, then we're gonna cockblock you at the last minute." They do it to all the power companies too. Blanket green policies are thrown down by feel good environmentalists with no knowledge of the industry that cost billions and are poorly set up or just plain ineffective. Kills jobs and all the while they still want more energy.



:Colbert:


--------------------
/ / / / / / / LISTEN TO MY MUSIC: E X E D / / / / / / /
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May His Circuits Ever Function


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: JT]
    #14349750 - 04/25/11 03:41 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

4 billion to a massive company like shell is what 500 dollars is to you. Where is it there drilling, how are they going about it, how destructive is the process and will it adversely affect the wildlife and snow melt? Do you know any of this info or are you just siding with shell cause you dont wanna side with EPA


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OfflineAntiEverything
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: JT] * 2
    #14349769 - 04/25/11 03:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

JT said:
Shell spent $4billion surveying the arctic ocean for oil, and now they've been blocked by the EPA over unapproved carbon emissions? They cited concerns over the pollution saying that it may adversely affect the local villages, but the nearest village is 70 miles away from the site. Sounds more like the board just wanted to give shell the ol' middle finger.

We're gonna need the oil, may as well stop pussyfooting around it and just drill. These environmental agencies are good in theory but they're choking business like crazy. Here they say "sure spend 4 billion to check out the land, then we're gonna cockblock you at the last minute." They do it to all the power companies too. Blanket green policies are thrown down by feel good environmentalists with no knowledge of the industry that cost billions and are poorly set up or just plain ineffective. Kills jobs and all the while they still want more energy.




damn straight, fuck ecology, its costing oil companies money:imspecial:


--------------------
You are at once
both
the quiet
and
the confusion
of my heart.
-Franz Kafka


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Invisible4runner
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: JT]
    #14349789 - 04/25/11 03:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Dude it's the arctic I say go for. I won't ever live there. They can have Africa to.


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Invisibleblazenn
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: JT] * 1
    #14349803 - 04/25/11 03:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

JT said:
Shell spent $4billion surveying the arctic ocean for oil, and now they've been blocked by the EPA over unapproved carbon emissions? They cited concerns over the pollution saying that it may adversely affect the local villages, but the nearest village is 70 miles away from the site. Sounds more like the board just wanted to give shell the ol' middle finger.

We're gonna need the oil, may as well stop pussyfooting around it and just drill. These environmental agencies are good in theory but they're choking business like crazy. Here they say "sure spend 4 billion to check out the land, then we're gonna cockblock you at the last minute." They do it to all the power companies too. Blanket green policies are thrown down by feel good environmentalists with no knowledge of the industry that cost billions and are poorly set up or just plain ineffective. Kills jobs and all the while they still want more energy.





we actually dont need the oil. humans survived for thousands upon thousands of years without oil, and besides that little fact we've even discovered newer more efficient ways of powering all those things that require oil.
HEMP can be used for oil for christ's sake.

if we can't move past the use of fossil fuels and especially nuclear power for our day to day motor-run necessities then we truly are fucked as a species.


Edited by blazenn (04/25/11 04:03 PM)


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Offlinerealfuzzhead
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: blazenn]
    #14349822 - 04/25/11 03:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

no.

I know we need more oil but drillng for more now is just going to make the fall from oil that much more devastating.


Its like putting another bandaid on a bullet wound


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OfflineDeekay
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: blazenn]
    #14349839 - 04/25/11 03:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

:nonono:


--------------------
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Offlineurbanwolf
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #14349850 - 04/25/11 03:59 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
4 billion to a massive company like shell is what 500 dollars is to you. Where is it there drilling, how are they going about it, how destructive is the process and will it adversely affect the wildlife and snow melt? Do you know any of this info or are you just siding with shell cause you dont wanna side with EPA




Sounds like someone in his family works in the energy industry.

OP I'm sorry but companies like Shell will completely destroy entire ecosystems without regulation. I feel no sympathy for a company like Shell. Regardless of whether or not we need the energy, we have to take a stand somewhere.

I'd just like to point out the profits of GE and Shell, in this quarter, to give you an idea how much it doesn't matter;

GE -- $38.45 billion
Shell -- 18.6 billion

The high cost of drilling for oil is going to push the clean energy sector into overdrive. It will help curb our dependance on oil and will ultimately provide a greener, brighter future for my children and the world. I'm okay with this, if we don't think about our future now, companies like GE and Shell will continue to rape and pilage our planet and my wallet.



Fuck your "business model," some things are more important than quarterly profits.


--------------------
"One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that, an unjust law is no law at all.” -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"Seek not abroad, turn back into thyself, for in the inner man dwells the truth." -- St. Augustine


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OfflineKada
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: urbanwolf]
    #14349858 - 04/25/11 04:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I don't think we should drill anywhere.

We could totally live without oil.


--------------------
~The Cultivators Motherload~

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein

"There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies.
My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama

Live long and prosper.



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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: Deekay]
    #14349863 - 04/25/11 04:02 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I really don't think we need an oil spill in the arctic.


--------------------
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Invisibleblazenn
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: blazenn]
    #14349870 - 04/25/11 04:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

here's some fun facts for everyone that doesn't know just how much safer and efficient hemp used as bio-diesel fuel is compared to fossil fuels.


http://www.hemphasis.net/Fuel-Energy/fuel.htm



Quote:

Hemp can produce 10 tons of biomass per acre every four months. Enough energy could be produced on 6% of the land in the U.S. to provide enough energy for our entire country (cars, heat homes, electricity, industry) -- and we use 25% of the world's energy.




with as advanced as the rest of our technologies are becoming, it really makes you wonder why we're so far behind on what we use as fuel/energy.


also


Quote:

Ethanol, methanol, methane gas, and gasoline can be derived from biomass at a fraction of the cost of the current cost of oil, coal, or nuclear energy, especially when environmental costs are factored in. Each acre of hemp could yield about 1000 gallons of methanol.






Quote:

When an energy crop is growing, it takes carbon dioxide (CO2) from the air, and releases an equal amount when it is burned, creating a balanced system, unlike petroleum fuels, which only release CO2. When an energy crop like hemp is grown on a massive scale, it will initially lower the CO2 in the air, and then stabilize it at a level lower than before the planting of the energy crop.







but wait what the fuck am I thinking?

if we switch to hemp as our main source of fuel, which anyone can grow in their own backyard with very little effort, our beloved oil drilling companies will no longer be able to rape us for our cash by charging us for oil at several times the amount of money it costs them to drill for it and convert it to gas!!!!!

fuck it let's drill baby drill!!!! go full force lets fuck this planet for everything it's got!  :smirk:


Edited by blazenn (04/25/11 04:09 PM)


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Offlineurbanwolf
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: blazenn]
    #14349916 - 04/25/11 04:12 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Exactly. Thank you for pointing out the logic of biomass fuels, blazenn. Hemp is just one part of our future. Oil companies like Shell and BP will do everything in their power to stop the energy industry from moving forward.



They want you to be dependent upon them.


--------------------
"One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that, an unjust law is no law at all.” -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"Seek not abroad, turn back into thyself, for in the inner man dwells the truth." -- St. Augustine


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OfflineRonaldFuckingPaul
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: urbanwolf] * 1
    #14349987 - 04/25/11 04:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

hell no solar and wind are the answer!


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OfflineAntiEverything
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #14350041 - 04/25/11 04:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

reeferaddict69 said:
hell no solar and wind are the answer!



you have to diversify the energy portfolio or else resources will still be used

for instance you still need palladium to make solar panels, where do we get palladium? the fucking middle east, go figure.


--------------------
You are at once
both
the quiet
and
the confusion
of my heart.
-Franz Kafka


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: AntiEverything]
    #14350063 - 04/25/11 04:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

and the infrastructure to mine and refine rare earth metals of which china has over 80% of the market.


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: AntiEverything]
    #14350090 - 04/25/11 04:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

fortunately every solar panel you build doesn't consistently burn 200 pounds of palladium a month, its a step up from our current situation :awesome:

And I donno where you got that stat but russia, south africa, and the US are the 3 leaders of palladium production by and away.


--------------------
¿Check out some art m8?



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OfflineAntiEverything
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: twighead]
    #14350120 - 04/25/11 04:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

ah damn i was wrong


--------------------
You are at once
both
the quiet
and
the confusion
of my heart.
-Franz Kafka


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: blewmeanie]
    #14350136 - 04/25/11 04:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

blewmeanie said:
I really don't think we need an oil spill in the arctic.




why not, it's a frozen wasteland 11.9mos out of the year


and they're already drilling prudhoe bay and kaparuk, right next to ANWR, one
of the richest oil fields in the continental US, there's already rigs here to
extract the oil but for some retarded reason everyone loves paying $5/gal



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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: Kada]
    #14350137 - 04/25/11 04:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Kada said:
I don't think we should drill anywhere.

We could totally live without oil.





buggies need oil for their axles


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OfflineAntiEverything
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14350143 - 04/25/11 04:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

polar bears are key to biodiversity


--------------------
You are at once
both
the quiet
and
the confusion
of my heart.
-Franz Kafka


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OfflineJT
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: twighead]
    #14350152 - 04/25/11 04:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

yeah, i have a family member at AEP. i have to hear about the monumentally stupid regulations all the time.

biomass fuels? lol. they've been so effective. that great corn ethanol some gas stations were carrying for a while? wasn't any cheaper than gas, came with its own environmental problems, and drove food prices up.

the environmental cost of drilling is negligible unless you have a huge fuck up and spill like in the gulf. how often does that happen though?

we are going to drill for that oil eventually no matter what. be it ten, 15 years from now, it's gonna get drilled when supplies start running drying up (as the rest of alaska is right now). go ahead stop driving and using electricity, otherwise you're just being hypocrites.


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OfflineAntiEverything
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: JT] * 1
    #14350188 - 04/25/11 04:59 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

good point, lets keep testing the limits of ecological diversity while greenwashing our culture with non-inherent fixes like 15% ethonol mixes in gasoline preperations and drilling for oil in places that are already losing biodiversity because of climate change.... oh and guess what we are excluding the possibility that we might not drill with our political rhetoric even tho we know that oil isn't sustainable and never will be :strokebeard:

brilliant


--------------------
You are at once
both
the quiet
and
the confusion
of my heart.
-Franz Kafka


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Offlinerealfuzzhead
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: AntiEverything]
    #14350192 - 04/25/11 04:59 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I would love to drive across the US and just see acre's and acre's of hemp


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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #14350217 - 04/25/11 05:05 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

blewmeanie said:
I really don't think we need an oil spill in the arctic.




why not, it's a frozen wasteland 11.9mos out of the year





That's exactly why. It would be almost impossible to deal with an oil spill in the arctic.


--------------------
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Offlinerealfuzzhead
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: blewmeanie]
    #14350225 - 04/25/11 05:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

anyone see the South Park about the BP spill? i think we should just start to curtail are dependence on oil now.


"we're sorry...

sorry...

sorry.."


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Offlineurbanwolf
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: JT]
    #14350363 - 04/25/11 05:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

JT said:
yeah, i have a family member at AEP. i have to hear about the monumentally stupid regulations all the time.

biomass fuels? lol. they've been so effective. that great corn ethanol some gas stations were carrying for a while? wasn't any cheaper than gas, came with its own environmental problems, and drove food prices up.

the environmental cost of drilling is negligible unless you have a huge fuck up and spill like in the gulf. how often does that happen though?

we are going to drill for that oil eventually no matter what. be it ten, 15 years from now, it's gonna get drilled when supplies start running drying up (as the rest of alaska is right now). go ahead stop driving and using electricity, otherwise you're just being hypocrites.




You're not actually listening to anything we've said. We know oil is here and now and needed, but that doesn't mean we can't ween ourselves off of dependance. I have no apologies for these regulations, without them our environment would be destroyed, bar none.

Corn ethanol is a failure, that's a given, but it isn't our only option. If you don't already know, Henry Ford built his first cars to run on Hemp and Hemp mixtures. Other than hemp, there are countless other alternatives being developed to curb our appetite. People like you are holding us back because, "why move forward when we can drill?"


And don't get me started on fuel prices and these "oil spills." Negligible my ass, tell that to all the people who are sick or dead because of the chemical dispersants BP used, Corexit is killing people.


--------------------
"One has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that, an unjust law is no law at all.” -- Martin Luther King Jr.

"Seek not abroad, turn back into thyself, for in the inner man dwells the truth." -- St. Augustine


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Invisibleblazenn
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: JT]
    #14350370 - 04/25/11 05:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

JT said:
yeah, i have a family member at AEP. i have to hear about the monumentally stupid regulations all the time.

biomass fuels? lol. they've been so effective. that great corn ethanol some gas stations were carrying for a while? wasn't any cheaper than gas, came with its own environmental problems, and drove food prices up.





you're leaving out an important fact that hemp is a much more viable source for biofuel than corn being that hemp's much easier to grow, can be harvested a few times a year, is easier to ship, and on top of all that produces more fuel in the end.


you're right about the price of biofuel's not currently being any cheaper than the gas we currently use, but you also aren't considering the fact that 5-10 years down the road the price we're paying for gas will probably be closer to 6-7$ a gallon, while the price of biofuels will remain about the same as what it costs now. PLUS since many people don't even know about using hemp for bio-fuel there isn't a very large amount of farmers growing hemp because there isn't much of a market for it currently.

the longer we see increases in gas prices the more curious people will be about alternatives to fuels, and hopefully the knowledge on hemp based bio fuels will expand and we can have more people farming hemp and producing bio fuels than we have drilling oil. and at the same time more people will begin to switch to bio-fuels creating a larger market giving farmers more of a reason to keep producing hemp, possibly even driving the price down- because the fact is that ANYONE can grow and produce hemp in their own backyard. now i don't know how easy it is to convert it to biofuels, but the more people learn about hemp for bio fuel we will possibly have an overabundance of hemp to be used for fuel.

now i'm not extremely knowledgable on this subject by any means, but it's pretty easy to see how much greater the possibilities are for our society to use hemp based bio fuels over fossil fuels.


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Invisible4runner
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14350382 - 04/25/11 05:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Kada said:
I don't think we should drill anywhere.

We could totally live without oil.





buggies need oil for their axles




I was playing a new version of Oregon Trails, I Learned you could also use Buffalo fat... oh wait. Maybe that won't work.


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InvisibleMicawber
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: 4runner]
    #14350471 - 04/25/11 05:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

lunar nuke reactors beaming microwave energy to dishes
on earth  the way to go:rocket:


--------------------
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Offlinetwighead
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: 4runner]
    #14350576 - 04/25/11 06:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

anunnakian said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Kada said:
I don't think we should drill anywhere.

We could totally live without oil.





buggies need oil for their axles




I was playing a new version of Oregon Trails, I Learned you could also use Buffalo fat... oh wait. Maybe that won't work.



Not to be off topic but, new oregon trail!? :awesome:

That shit was like the original first person shooter.


--------------------
¿Check out some art m8?



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Invisible4runner
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: twighead]
    #14350607 - 04/25/11 06:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

twighead said:
Not to be off topic but, new oregon trail!? :awesome:

That shit was like the original first person shooter.




Its pretty retarded, got it in some ipod app torrent.


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: 4runner]
    #14350773 - 04/25/11 06:41 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Oh :lolsy: but the idea... whether the game is retarded or not, almost makes me want to go get it.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: blewmeanie]
    #14350857 - 04/25/11 06:55 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

blewmeanie said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

blewmeanie said:
I really don't think we need an oil spill in the arctic.




why not, it's a frozen wasteland 11.9mos out of the year





That's exactly why. It would be almost impossible to deal with an oil spill in the arctic.





wait for it to freeze, take the ice pick to it and sweep up the pieces


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Invisibleblazenn
rawdog the whale.
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14350864 - 04/25/11 06:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:

wait for it to freeze, take the ice pick to it and sweep up the pieces




oil actually freezes?  :kingtard:



if anything a massive oil spill in the arctic would only speed up the melting of major polar icecaps n sech


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Posts: 193,665
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: 4runner]
    #14350873 - 04/25/11 06:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

anunnakian said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Kada said:
I don't think we should drill anywhere.

We could totally live without oil.





buggies need oil for their axles




I was playing a new version of Oregon Trails, I Learned you could also use Buffalo fat... oh wait. Maybe that won't work.





right... you'll die of dysentery


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Invisibleblewmeanie
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
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Posts: 28,984
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14350895 - 04/25/11 07:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

blewmeanie said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

blewmeanie said:
I really don't think we need an oil spill in the arctic.




why not, it's a frozen wasteland 11.9mos out of the year





That's exactly why. It would be almost impossible to deal with an oil spill in the arctic.





wait for it to freeze, take the ice pick to it and sweep up the pieces



You better be trollin.:lol:


--------------------
The Prophecy!

Learn To Code


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InvisibleMcTwist
Stoned Stranger
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Registered: 01/22/07
Posts: 1,969
Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: 4runner]
    #14350921 - 04/25/11 07:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

anunnakian said:
Dude it's the arctic I say go for. I won't ever live there. They can have Africa to.




Not in my backyard! I don't give a fuck!




what a terrible attitude to adopt. :mad2:


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: blewmeanie]
    #14350947 - 04/25/11 07:05 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)



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Invisible4runner
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: McTwist]
    #14350958 - 04/25/11 07:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

It's more in jest, but yet still pretty true. That is how pretty much everyone thinks.

Like the dead senator that wanted wind power to save the world but not where they wanted to do it because he like to sail. :shrug:

--

And dammit pris don't, don't say shit like that, I was doing good on that game. Now the next time I try it little Jimmie is gonna die.

--

nice troll face lol.


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InvisibleMcTwist
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: 4runner]
    #14350968 - 04/25/11 07:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

anunnakian said:
It's more in jest, but yet still pretty true. That is how pretty much everyone thinks.




That's the unsolvable problem I doubt will ever be surpassed. Fortunately there is still nature left for me to enjoy, but what about future generations? Think of the children!


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Invisible4runner
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Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: McTwist]
    #14350996 - 04/25/11 07:12 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I got a vasectomy, I don't have to think of the children. Damn little screaming brats. Besides the future generation will just be plugged into a virtual computer simulations anyways right?


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Invisibleblazenn
rawdog the whale.
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Registered: 05/13/09
Posts: 4,584
Loc: Flag
Re: should we let shell drill in the arctic? [Re: 4runner]
    #14351017 - 04/25/11 07:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

anunnakian said:
I got a vasectomy, I don't have to think of the children. Damn little screaming brats. Besides the future generation will just be plugged into a virtual computer simulations anyways right?




in the future all that will be left are computer simulations, and no humans for which the computers can simulate. :tinfoil:


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