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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Investing in Copper
    #14309636 - 04/17/11 11:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

So about 10 years ago I bought a bunch of silver. I still have some of it left, but not a whole lot. When I did sell it I ended up doubling my money, which wasnt bad. But today I look at the price of silver, and my jaw dropped. $43 an ounce! Im now wishing I still had all those ounces I bought for $7 each.

So I get to looking around, and Im thinking that copper is about to go the same way. Now it probably wont go anywhere near as high as silver, as its so much more plentiful, and easier to obtain. However I did notice that the price of copper has nearly doubled in the last year and a half. And it looks like it will continue to rise.

Now Ive seen the copper bullion for sale, and it looks grossly overpriced for what it is. So that immediately ruled that out. But then I came across the fact that nickels are 75% copper and about 25% nickel......So I visit www.coinflation.com and check the melt value of a nickel. At the current price of the metal contained in a nickel, if I were to melt it down, it would be worth about 7 cents. I can buy 7 cents for 5 cents!

Now heres the beautiful part....a nickel will always be worth 5 cents. If the economy heals, I will have lost no money. If the SHTF though, I now still have something of value. So now I need to figure out where to put a shit ton of nickels.

Has anyone else done this? Anyone else been watching copper? Am I just a nutcase?

Edited by wildernessjunkie (04/19/11 01:55 AM)

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OfflineSmackshadow
It's Time for Wild Speculation


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Re: Investing in Copper [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #14315380 - 04/19/11 01:38 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

First, the Nickel is 75% copper and 25% nickel. 

I do watch the price of copper.  In fact, I think that copper is a good store for wealth, and more useful then gold or silver.  (at least if the shit hits the fan, so to speak)

What I will tell you about nickels is that it is very difficult to separate the copper from the nickel.  So if the economy tanks and you have to melt it, you can't readily sell it to a metal dealer as it will be quite clear that you melted down coins which is illegal.  That being said it is still a useful metal for actual use in a barter style system.  Food for thought.


--------------------
The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.
     
~H. L. Mencken~

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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: Investing in Copper [Re: Smackshadow]
    #14315430 - 04/19/11 02:01 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The 15% bit was a typo. I knew it was 25%, anyway....edited and fixed.

I never had the intent to melt them myself. Im thinking if the SHTF then the economy will colapse with it. Meaning that the nickel itself is a bartering item, like you said above. And if that happened then its value as a US currency would be irrellevent. Its only value at that point would be the base metal itself.

Do you think that as an investment in Copper that nickels are a poor decision? If so would you reccomend another method?

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OfflineSmackshadow
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Re: Investing in Copper [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #14315463 - 04/19/11 02:19 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I like the idea of copper bars.  They are easier to move imo.  A lot of loose coins seems like a pain to keep track of. 

Second, I am into melting and casting.  http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/ is a good resource if you are interested.  A pure copper bar can be alloyed with many other metals to create alloys for different purposes.  This makes it more useful.  I will admit that copper nickel alloy is still probably a very useful metal that could probably be cast to make a lot of things, but as I said above it is difficult to separate out if it didn't work for some reason.

Coins are difficult to melt as they have a lot more surface area and have a tendency to oxidize a lot when melting.

You do make a good point about nickels retaining their value if the economy doesn't crash.  If you only want to use them as trade tokens, with the assurance that they will be worth at least what you picked them up for Nickels seem like a good plan.  However as a trade material silver might be better simply because it has more value per oz so a lot less hassle. 

I personally don't like silver or gold, because if the SHTF I just don't see much practical use for them.  Copper I can make shit out of :grin: 

That, and I think that both silver and gold are over inflated by a large margin.


--------------------
The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.
     
~H. L. Mencken~

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Investing in Copper [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #14315825 - 04/19/11 06:37 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe its actually a crime now to hoard nickles, believe it or not.  Melting em for sure is illegal.

Getting physical copper is a recipe for busting your back and paying too much.

To our backyard melter...

Nordic Gold alloy, yes you guessed it the 10 eurocent coin, can that be melted and re-cast? Its really fancy looking, I've been thinking of casting small jewelry out of it. Can it be done, do you know more of that alloy? I have a natural gas stove I can sabotage to get a blast flame, would that be hot enough to melt some small quantities (few gram) in lets say a one piece stainless steel spoon? I can get that spoion to bright orange heat if it needs be.

Not gonna shoot it up dont worry :rotfl:


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
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Offlinezgbzgb1
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Re: Investing in Copper [Re: Asante]
    #14316141 - 04/19/11 08:49 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Its all about the gold!

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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: Investing in Copper [Re: Asante]
    #14316807 - 04/19/11 11:33 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe its actually a crime now to hoard nickles, believe it or not.




Leave it to the government to make it illegal to have money....:lame:
This is interesting, where did you find that info?

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Nordic Gold alloy, yes you guessed it the 10 eurocent coin...




Is there actual gold in these coins? Maybe this would be a better way for me to go?

NVM. Did the google myself. No gold in those coins, just an alloy of mostly copper.

Edited by wildernessjunkie (04/19/11 01:15 PM)

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Investing in Copper [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #14317421 - 04/19/11 01:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I read it someplace, and precisely for this reason, that the base metals contained in the coin exceeded the face value in melt.

Moral of the story, dont get caught hoarding nickles :wink:


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: Investing in Copper [Re: Asante] * 1
    #14317447 - 04/19/11 01:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Gotcha. Dont get caught.

Reminds me of something my mom said once...

She said,"Its only trouble if you get caught."

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OfflineSmackshadow
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Registered: 09/27/05
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Re: Investing in Copper [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #14317600 - 04/19/11 01:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

In the US I don't believe that it is illegal to hoard nickels, but it is illegal to melt them for their metal content.


--------------------
The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.
     
~H. L. Mencken~

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Invisiblebryguy27007
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Re: Investing in Copper [Re: Smackshadow]
    #14328052 - 04/21/11 02:43 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I've been wanting to get copper for a while now. The only problem is that bullion is over double spot. I can't find any decently priced copper anywhere.

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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: Investing in Copper [Re: bryguy27007]
    #14328275 - 04/21/11 03:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bryguy27007 said:
I've been wanting to get copper for a while now. The only problem is that bullion is over double spot. I can't find any decently priced copper anywhere.





One of the reasons Im leaning towards nickels.

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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Investing in Copper [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #14329135 - 04/21/11 06:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

A couple of things to consider:

1) Copper and precious metals are two different things. If you are expecting the price of copper to track those of silver and gold you may be disappointed. The price of copper is closely tied to economic activity. So if the world enters another economic slowdown (which I personally expect) then the price may drop sharply.

2) You say a nickel will always be worth five cents. If the U.S. experiences significant inflation (which I also expect) then the nominal value may be 5 cents but in real terms, much less.

You may come out okay but your outcome isn't nearly as certain as you seem to believe.

Good luck.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: Investing in Copper [Re: zorbman]
    #14329588 - 04/21/11 07:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well of course ANY investment is a gamble. And when I say that a nickel will always be worth a nickel, the caveat being; that the US economy holds. And if it doesnt, then the nickel will still have SOME melt value in a world economy.

I also understand that copper shouldnt really be classified as a precious metal. More of a Base Metal and as such a Commodity. And though a lot of countries in the world are experiencing and will experience economic slowdown, I think that China will continue to grow economically at the rate it has been.

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OfflineYrat
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Re: Investing in Copper [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #14332260 - 04/22/11 08:41 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)



--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Investing in Copper [Re: Yrat]
    #14332377 - 04/22/11 09:13 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

That deserves a thread of its own :awesome:


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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: Investing in Copper [Re: Asante]
    #14333198 - 04/22/11 12:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I read that awhile back. One of several that are out there. Those articles are the inspiration of the OP.

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Invisiblebryguy27007
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Re: Investing in Copper [Re: Yrat]
    #14333256 - 04/22/11 01:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
Save Your Nickels!!




That's a great article. I need to go grab some nickels.

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OfflineGroovy Grant
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Re: Investing in Copper [Re: zorbman]
    #14334531 - 04/22/11 05:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:
A couple of things to consider:

1) Copper and precious metals are two different things. If you are expecting the price of copper to track those of silver and gold you may be disappointed. The price of copper is closely tied to economic activity. So if the world enters another economic slowdown (which I personally expect) then the price may drop sharply.

2) You say a nickel will always be worth five cents. If the U.S. experiences significant inflation (which I also expect) then the nominal value may be 5 cents but in real terms, much less.

You may come out okay but your outcome isn't nearly as certain as you seem to believe.

Good luck.




X2

Not too long ago copper was super pricey (like 2007-2008). People were being executed the world over because they were trying to strip the metal from LIVE electric lines and other ridiculous things. The price has come down a lot, but may be edging back up.

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OfflineCherk
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Re: Investing in Copper [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #14348325 - 04/25/11 10:18 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

when the economy collapses what the fuck is going to fuel the copper industry?


we really should have stuck with the huts and fire and shit


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

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