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InvisiblePoison Drink
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Salvia Divinorum: Cultivation questions
    #14347954 - 04/25/11 08:22 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I already asked this on another forum, but I didn't get any answers:

I bought this Salvia cutting from an online shop, It's about 30 days ago it arrived. I followed the tutorial video's instructions and everything looked fine! 

This video:


I put a plastic bag over the plants pot and acclimatized it by punching some holes through it every day. But then I decided to continue the growth inside a sort of "greenhouse", so not acclimitizing the plant and growing it in high air humidity. Because I just think it's better for the plant, maybe even better to gain higher alkaloid levels (I'm just guessing this).

Some days ago, let's say around a week, some leaves of the salvia began showing some brownish discoloration 'spots' at the edges. I decided to repot the plant, because at first I planted it in a closed pot, so no water could run out. I read it's best to get a good water drainage.

So I repotted it in a bigger pot, with gravel at the bottom to get a good drainage, and I used sowing and cutting soil. Gave it a good watering (with fungicide in it, because all my plants get this white fuzzy 'mold' when not using this so it seems) and placed a new bag over it with no holes (so it normally has a higher air humidity in this pot).

I also removed the lowest pair of leaves, because there were some roots above this leaves and I saw this on the tutorial (but didn't do it in the beginning).Now the leaves of the plant are still looking a bit weak and quite slack. What can I do about this? Forgot to mention: I keep this plant out of full sunlight!

Some pictures:


The brownish spots on the leaves, this leave has the worst spots, other leaves have less and some don't have it.



Without plastic bag over it.



Normal 'setup'.



Better days! Pic taken on the 2nd of April.

This was about a week ago, now it looks more like this:

The salvia looks quite normal in the daytime. But during night the leaves are hanging much lower. Maybe this is normal (Day/night cycle of the plant)? It's develloping new leaves, but the older ones still have this brown discoloration. Now I placed a plastic bag over it with a MicroPore filter, so there's air exchange. Also, I put some sort of "gel" on top of the soil. It can absorbing a lot of water, so the air humidity will allways be high (I hope).

Some pictures without the plastic bag:





Anyone an idea what I can do about this brown spots on the leaves? Is this 'normal'? It doesn't seem to grow bigger, so I hope the plant will survive!

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InvisibleEthnoHorter
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Re: Salvia Divinorum: Cultivation questions [Re: Poison Drink]
    #14348148 - 04/25/11 09:23 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Looks like you might be over-watering that baby.  Make sure you let the soil mostly dry out before you re-saturate it.


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InvisiblePoison Drink
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Re: Salvia Divinorum: Cultivation questions [Re: EthnoHorter]
    #14348191 - 04/25/11 09:38 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

EthnoHorter said:
Looks like you might be over-watering that baby.  Make sure you let the soil mostly dry out before you re-saturate it.




Hey thanks! It never occurred to me that you could over-water this plant. I thought it liked lots of water, but now I'll cut back on the watering!

Another question: should I put the salvia in direct sunlight for some hours every day (in the morning maybe)? Or is indirect sunlight good enough?

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Invisiblenaum
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Re: Salvia Divinorum: Cultivation questions [Re: Poison Drink]
    #14348253 - 04/25/11 09:58 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Indirect is good enough for now. Once established and healthy they can take a good amount of sunlight, but partial shade seems best.

Your soil mix and watering regime are the source of your woes. That soil is killing your plant. You need a lighter and more airy mix.


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InvisiblePoison Drink
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Re: Salvia Divinorum: Cultivation questions [Re: naum]
    #14348265 - 04/25/11 10:02 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

naum said:

Your soil mix and watering regime are the source of your woes. That soil is killing your plant. You need a lighter and more airy mix.




Hmm, I have some cacti soil over here, is this better? I also have some vermiculite, so I could mix some soil with that?

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Re: Salvia Divinorum: Cultivation questions [Re: Poison Drink]
    #14351949 - 04/25/11 09:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Use perlite in your soil to get a nice free draining mix. Cut the soil you have now with a third perlite, Two thirds soil.

Only water it when the top of the soil goes dry, preferably down to your first knuckle on your forefinger.

Get rid of that gel shit. It's like tits on a bull, useless. Your humidity tent is supplying your humidity. Also, Salvia doesn't need high humidity, it's only when introduced to a new environment that you use a humidity tent to minimize stress. Salvia can be happy at 40% RH.

The brown spots are fairly normal and as your plant gets used to your environment the new growth should be free of spots and will continue to look healthier and more vigourous as time goes by. All of the growth put on when it was at the vendor will get ugly because it's getting used to your environment. Nothing you can do, except it and be patient for it to get used to it's new home. Might take a month or Two.

The leaves sagging at night are normal, they will perk up in the mornings when they can capture the sunlight. As naum said leave it in indirect light until you've acclimatised it, then you can increase the light. Direct light they don't like too much.


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InvisiblePoison Drink
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Re: Salvia Divinorum: Cultivation questions [Re: karode13]
    #14353499 - 04/26/11 03:57 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Very helpful response karode13! Is it OK to replace the perlite by vermiculite? I was thinking about growing this salvia in a humidity tent until it gets too big, is this a good method? Or is acclimatizing it to my climate better (by punching holes in the plastic bag to slowly get a lower air humidity)? I think this plant is rather small and maybe not strong enough for good acclimatization, because I tried it before and the plant didn't seem to like it.

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InvisibleEthnoHorter
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Re: Salvia Divinorum: Cultivation questions [Re: Poison Drink]
    #14353603 - 04/26/11 05:22 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Vermiculite should work fine as long as the pot has adequate drainage, ie holes in and some gravel in the bottom.  Punching holes in the bag will work well too.  This is a pretty hardy plant so don't be afraid of hurting her too much.


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InvisiblePoison Drink
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Re: Salvia Divinorum: Cultivation questions [Re: EthnoHorter]
    #14353639 - 04/26/11 05:45 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

EthnoHorter said:
Vermiculite should work fine as long as the pot has adequate drainage, ie holes in and some gravel in the bottom.  Punching holes in the bag will work well too.  This is a pretty hardy plant so don't be afraid of hurting her too much.




Thanks! I already have a pot with drainage holes in the bottom. These holes are too big for the gravel I got for the moment though, so I'll look for some bigger gravel.

Another question: should I be thinking about fertilizers already? If I'll give the Salvia new soil with vermiculite, the new soil will have some nutrients in it I think, so I should wait longer with fertilizers?

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Re: Salvia Divinorum: Cultivation questions [Re: Poison Drink]
    #14359297 - 04/27/11 01:53 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Is it OK to replace the perlite by vermiculite?





Not if you want to increase drainage. Vermiculite does have some aeration properties but it's main job is to hold moisture. You should use perlite and your pots should always have holes in the bottom regardless of what plant you're growing.


Quote:

I was thinking about growing this salvia in a humidity tent until it gets too big, is this a good method? Or is acclimatizing it to my climate better (by punching holes in the plastic bag to slowly get a lower air humidity)?





I'd acclimatise it myself. Keep it in the humidity tent until it looks like it's doing ok. At this stage you can begin poking holes in the tent. People who say salvia needs 80%+ humidity to grow happily don't know what they're talking about.


As for the plant not liking it when you try to acclimatise, it'll wilt a little, it may even drop a leaf or Two but it should perk up and put on new growth as it gets used to the climate. The trick is to acclimatise slowly. If you just removed the tent without poking holes it will get shocked and this is where things go wrong. Do your acclimating over a Two week period, longer if you feel it's needed.

Once that little plant gets used to your environment it will grow into a large plant with leaves as long as your hand.


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InvisiblePoison Drink
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Re: Salvia Divinorum: Cultivation questions [Re: karode13]
    #14371784 - 04/29/11 09:15 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks for the answers! In some moments I will give the Salvia a new soil. I'm going to use a mix that I found on erowid:

Quote:

Leander Valdés, who studied S. divinorum at the University of Michigan, used the following mixture:

    * 4 parts soil
    * 2 parts peat moss
    * 1 part vermiculite
    * 1 part perlite




But the erowid grower's guide also says:

Quote:

Regardless of what soil mixture you use, try to keep your soil pH between 6.1 and 6.6.




Will the soil be between this pH levels when using that much peat moss? Peat moss is between 3,5-4,5.

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InvisiblePoison Drink
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Re: Salvia Divinorum: Cultivation questions [Re: Poison Drink]
    #14371815 - 04/29/11 09:32 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I also have small limestone pebbles. Maybe I could add a little to the mixture?

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Re: Salvia Divinorum: Cultivation questions [Re: Poison Drink]
    #14371822 - 04/29/11 09:34 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

man i hate salvia. but its a recipricated feeling.

good luck with yours. Great video by the way.:thumbup:


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Invisiblenaum
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Re: Salvia Divinorum: Cultivation questions [Re: Poison Drink]
    #14371837 - 04/29/11 09:38 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

That's a reasonable soil mixture. It's 1/4 peat moss and that part of the world has alkaline tap water. Should be fine. I still think you'd benefit by dropping the vermiculite and replacing its portion with more perlite.

My mixture is only about 10% peat based, but water is close to neutral (slightly acidic) here. I use a fair amount of coir (30%?) for the airiness. The rest is just the base I make for cactus and some worm castings. They seem to like it.


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InvisiblePoison Drink
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Re: Salvia Divinorum: Cultivation questions [Re: naum]
    #14371873 - 04/29/11 09:54 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

naum said:
That's a reasonable soil mixture. It's 1/4 peat moss and that part of the world has alkaline tap water. Should be fine. I still think you'd benefit by dropping the vermiculite and replacing its portion with more perlite.




We have very hard tap water over here I think. Erowid says this:

Quote:

Avoid tap water that is excessively hard (i.e., above 150 ppm hardness), or water with sodium levels above 50 ppm (a level which some municipal water can exceed even without softening). Water above these levels has a deleterious effect upon S. divinorum.




And why is perlite so much better as vermiculite? If Leander Valdés (who studied S. divinorum at the University of Michigan) used the same mixture, it'll be fine I guess. But if 1/4th of the mix is peat moss (pH 3,5-4,5), and the other ingredients are pH neutral (I think?) the pH will be slightly acidic (pH between 6,1 and 6,6)?


Quote:

ferrel_human said:

good luck with yours. Great video by the way.:thumbup:




It's not my video, it's a tutorial vid of the online shop.

Edited by Poison Drink (04/29/11 09:59 AM)

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Invisiblenaum
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Re: Salvia Divinorum: Cultivation questions [Re: Poison Drink]
    #14372033 - 04/29/11 10:48 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Perlite is better because it increases drainage and makes the mixture much more airy. Vermiculite is like a sponge and holds on to water and decreases drainage and in most soil mixtures decreases airiness as well.

Soil pH is not an exact science and calculation of the "soil pH" does not work in the manner you think it does. There are a lot of buffers and complex reactions occurring constantly. The pH of the water used for watering also contributes largely to "soil pH". What matters most is that the plant is able to take up nutrients and being able to correct the problem when it is unable to.

I meant alkaline in terms of pH as in that's why a "large" amount of peat was fine for Valdes mixture. If your worried about water quality then use rain water or RO water.


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Re: Salvia Divinorum: Cultivation questions [Re: naum]
    #14372112 - 04/29/11 11:07 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

nah man, i meant its a good video. to teach people how to grow.

i tried all these things and still had no luck with mine. which were several by the way.

she hates me so i, in turn, hate her.


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Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode


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InvisiblePoison Drink
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Re: Salvia Divinorum: Cultivation questions [Re: naum]
    #14372329 - 04/29/11 12:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Ok, so I made this mix:

Quote:

1/2 sowing and cutting soil
1/4 peat moss
1/4 perlite-vermiculite (about 4/5th was perlite)
+ a tiny amount of small limestones.




I reused the sowing and cutting soil because I was out of other soil. It felt really wet, so that was probably my problem. The mix felt really airy/light so I hope my Sally D. likes it! I didn't give it more water so the soil is now just moist.

I have some other questions: I want my Salvia to grow bushy and I know I need to 'top' the plant to get this effect. But I was thinking, can I let the salvia grow bigger and then cut away the upper 10cm to have another cutting at the same time? Or is it only possible to 'top' the plant on freshly grown small leaves (and stem)?

Second question: when should I consider giving fertilizer to the Salvia? It's been in normal soil without fertilizer for about one month now.

Picture of the Salvia in new soil:



Thanks for the response! :grin:

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Re: Salvia Divinorum: Cultivation questions [Re: Poison Drink]
    #14372366 - 04/29/11 12:18 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You should wait until you see some new healthy growth before you fertilize.


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Re: Salvia Divinorum: Cultivation questions [Re: Poison Drink]
    #14483302 - 05/20/11 08:16 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

So my Salvia is in the new soil mix for about 20 days now. But I still think the Salvia doesn't look very healthy. Her leaves all got these brown edges. Some leaves are almost completely covered with these spots. :sad:

This is the soil mix:

Quote:

1/2 sowing and cutting soil
1/4 peat moss
1/4 perlite-vermiculite (about 4/5th was perlite)
+ a tiny amount of small limestones.




I'm still acclimatizing the Salvia using a plastic bag. It's almost time to take off the bag I think, but I'm not sure.. Will this be better or worse for the salvia? I read on erowid this browning effect is occurring more with Salvia's who stay in a humidity tent for all their life.

The salvia is growing new leaves, but it won't take long before they get these brown spots too. I didn't feed the Salvia yet. Maybe it's time to do this, but someone mentioned I should wait for some new healthy growth. I can wait a long time I think, lol.

Also yesterday and today, one leaf fell off when I took away the plastic bag for some misting. It only needed a soft touch of the bag to come off it seemed. That's not a good sign I think.  :uhoh:

What should I do? I'm using tap water to spray the Salvia, but I believe this water might be too 'hard'. Is it better to use drinking water from a bottle?

The Salvia is never in direct sunlight btw. I need some help!

Pictures without plastic bag for better visualisation:








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