|
4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
|
Why Not Do A Little Religion? 1
#14347879 - 04/25/11 07:59 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I have been surrounded by Christians for some time now. This has caused me to reflect on their situation more.
What I have realized is that Christianity is no more than a drug. It makes people feel good about themselves even though it isn't technically "real". Even if someone has doubts about it, they are able to suppress the doubts with the help of their fellow Christianity users.
Sometimes I even wish that I could be a Christian. I remember how much of a comfort the idea of God used to be when I was 13, and I was still a strong believer.
Another benefit to Christianity is that the negative effects it causes are usually minimal. For the average Christian the negative side-effects are practically non-existent. The only negative thing about it that I see is how it causes you to hold back on what you experience in the one chance you have to experience it. Even then, this is hardly negative from the subjective viewpoint of the partaker in Christianity.
-------------------- Live your Life!
|
pouihi
Mary Jane Doe



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 2,384
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: 4896744]
#14348716 - 04/25/11 11:45 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
You should probably try a little bit of every religion then otherwise it would seem prejudice. Besides Christianity is the most boring of them all 
Quote:
iThink said: Another benefit to Christianity is that the negative effects it causes are usually minimal.
That's subjective... burning and torturing people in the name of god, not accepting the "live and let live" (example: condemning gay people), oppose to the use of contraceptives such as the condom, and if you wanna take the example of a truly devoted one, they can even go as far as organizing "Burn a Koran" days.
--------------------
"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."
|
Mush 4 Brains
about tree fiddy


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 8,298
Loc: Tacos
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: pouihi]
#14348810 - 04/25/11 12:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
pouihi said: You should probably try a little bit of every religion then otherwise it would seem prejudice. Besides Christianity is the most boring of them all 
Quote:
iThink said: Another benefit to Christianity is that the negative effects it causes are usually minimal.
That's subjective... burning and torturing people in the name of god, not accepting the "live and let live" (example: condemning gay people), oppose to the use of contraceptives such as the condom, and if you wanna take the example of a truly devoted one, they can even go as far as organizing "Burn a Koran" days.
Name an incident within the last hundred years where people were burned and tortured by Christians. Who cares if an extremist group of christians outside the norm burn the koran, its way more hateful and ridiculous than the bible anyways. They're both bullshit. As for the "god hates fags" and anti-contraception issues, i agree- absolute horse shit. Most Christians are not like that in the least, but sure there are always extremists.
|
pouihi
Mary Jane Doe



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 2,384
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
|
|
Quote:
Mush 4 Brains said: Name an incident within the last hundred years where people were burned and tortured by Christians.
Inquisition?
--------------------
"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."
|
Mush 4 Brains
about tree fiddy


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 8,298
Loc: Tacos
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: pouihi]
#14348946 - 04/25/11 12:55 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Inquisition Timeline Quote:
1099 AD 1099 AD - When the Crusaders captured Jerusalem in 1099, the Jews were massacred or expelled along with the Muslims, and were able to return only when Muslim control over the holy city was restored. After the Christian reconquest of Spain in the late fifteenth century ... Show more From The modern history of Jordan - Related web pages books.google.com/books?id=7zdi2sCuIh8C&pg ... ► 1184 AD 1184 AD - Pope Innocent III started the first Inquisition, called the Medieval Inquisition in 1184, in response to the rise of rival Christian sects such as the Cathars and Waldensians. From Myopic Man books.google.com/books?id=Qb9WCAj9H-UC&pg ... 1231 1231 - Medieval inquisitors always had to think about conflicts of jurisdiction with archbishops and bishops, because the latter had been in charge of handling heretics in their dioceses since the primitive Church; even after the first inquisitors were named in 1231, the ... Show more From The Spanish Inquisition, 1478-1614 - Related web pages books.google.com/books?id=R9da-SlbN4UC&pg=PR14 ... 1233 1233 - The weapon they adopted was the Inquisition. During the twelfth century, the leaders of the Catholic Church had become concerned about the spread of heresy- beliefs and practices not in strict accordance with Catholic teachings. In 1233, Pope Gregory IV set up ... Show more From Torah and Commentary - Related web pages books.google.com/books?id=vCfrt1cP_mkC&pg ... 1321 1321 - The Inquisition was the last great innovation of the Age of Theocracy. It was Pope Gregory IX, in 1321, who formally established the Inquisition within the Christian Church. Its initial purpose was as a measure designed to suppress all non-Christian thought. Show more From A History of Women in Religion - Related web pages books.google.com/books?id=8OAf6nrrH3gC&pg=PA74 ... 1391 Jul 1391 - The main target of the Inquisition were the so-called conversos, Jews who had converted to Catholicism following the anti-Jewish pogroms of July, 1391. It is ironic, therefore, that the Inquisition, as a Christian body, had no jurisdiction over Jews, but only ... Show more From Torquemada and The Spanish Inquisition | Socyberty - Related web pages socyberty.com/history/torquemada-and-the ... 1478 1478 - Queen Isabella was a "fervent" Christian and, in 1478, she asked the Pope for permission to set up an Inquisition to weed out heresy in the Christian world, with the Pope helpfully accommodating by establishing the Inquisition. From The Journey of Christopher Columbus To a New Land of Hope | … - Related web pages zh-hk.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=440828976642 1480 1480 - At the heart of Fernando and Isahel's popular appeal lay a religious higotry that they shared with most of their Christian suhjects. The Inquisition instituted in Castile in 1480 and in Aragon seven years later. Aiming to estahlish the purity of the Catholic ... Show more From The Rough Guide to Andalucia - Related web pages books.google.com/books?id=z6Sbcp82ZI4C&pg ... 1491 Nov 16, 1491 - In its current form, it's based on a verdict handed down by the Spanish Inquisition on Nov. 16, 1491. In the ruling, the Inquisition condemned seven " heretic judaizers" to be burned at the stake for murdering a Christian boy. An eighth person was convicted ... Show more From The Story of a Child, and of the Lingering Tale of Blood Libel - Related web pages www.jewishexponent.com/article/11017/ 1492 1492 - Later, Christian princes pushed out the Muslim rulers of Spain, and persecution of the Jews began. In 1492, as part of the Christian Spanish Inquisition, Jews were expelled from Spain. Many historians attribute the decline of Spain as a world power to the ... Show more From HistoryLink.org- the Free Online Encyclopedia of Washington State … - Related web pages www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage ... 1536 Oct 6, 1536 - Tyndale was tried for heresy and condemned by the Inquisition. On 6 October 1536 , Tyndale was tied to a stake, strangled, and then burned together with all copies of his books that could be found. The Inquisition operated on the principle that persecution and ... Show more From Define Universe and Give Two Examples - Related web pages books.google.com/books?id=wkCdDPfndDIC&pg ... 1542 Jul 21, 1542 - "Caraffa simply believed that error had no right to exist" (Thompson, 510). On July 21, 1542, Pope Paul III followed Caraffa's advice and sanctioned the Roman Inquisition and extended its authority throughout the Christian world. The Pope gave the ... Show more From Enjoying God Ministries - Related web pages www.enjoyinggodministries.com/article/20-the ... 1559 1559 - Three well-publicized autos-da-fe in 1559, the last one attended by Philip II, launched a seven-year cycle of feverish anti-Protestant activity by the Spanish Inquisition. The period 1559- 1565 was the only moment in its long existence when Spain's Holy ... Show more From Judging the French Reformation - Related web pages books.google.com/books?id=YLUHmdPws-sC&pg=PA51 ... 1600 Feb 17, 1600 - For this he was burnt at the stake, by the Christian Inquisition in Rome, on February 17, 1600, on the same day on which, thirty-six years before, Galileo, his great fellow-countryman and fellow- worker was born. Such men, who live and die for a great idea, are ... Show more From General sketch of the history of pantheism - Related web pages books.google.com/books?id=JnxAAAAAIAAJ&pg ... 1609 1609 - Why does an ancient Jewish book have illustrations, against the specific commandment in Exodus not to make the likeness of any thing? Why do the illustrations look so strangely Christian? Why, in 1609, did the Inquisition in Italy allow it to escape the auto-da ... Show more From People Of The Book - Book Reviews - Books - Entertainment - smh.com. … - Related web pages www.smh.com.au/news/book-reviews/people-of-the ... 1633 Jun 22, 1633 - On 22 June 1633 the Inquisition compelled him to declare: "I, Galileo Galilei, aged 70 years, being brought personally to judgement, and kneeling before you, Most Eminent and Most Reverend Lords, Cardinals, General Inquisitors of the Universal Christian ... Show more From Reflections on Father Tissa Balasuriya's 80th birthday www.island.lk/2004/08/29/featur11.html 1674 1674 - from that derived the name Tristan used by all the members of his family."i0 More frequently, as was pointed out to the Majorcan Inquisition in 1674, conversos would choose Christian names whose source was the Old Testament (Braunstein 1936, 184). From Secrecy and deceit - Related web pages books.google.com/books?id=PLKS69FKHkYC&pg ... 1736 1736 - In 1736, he published, in 8vo., The History of Persecution, in four parts; viz. I. Amongst the heathens. II. Under the Christian emperors. III. Under the papacy and inquisition. IV. Amongst protestants. With a preface, containing remarks on Dr. Rogers's Vindication ... From
Also I should have mentioned that i was specifically referring to the states.
|
pouihi
Mary Jane Doe



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 2,384
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
|
|
Just to reinforce that christians burned and tortured anything that they didn't like?? "Just because I please, you are a witch so we will now torture and kill you"
And why do you think a religion should be any different just because you're in the states?? It's even worst... I mean "now we don't burn heretics, just their books"
--------------------
"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."
|
thelivingfreekshow
Fuck You



Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 2,043
Loc: Prifddinas, Gielinor
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: pouihi]
#14349046 - 04/25/11 01:26 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
all organized religion is a fucking joke and god can suck my balls 2x. hes a vengeful angry beasty whos bloodlust is unquenchable, Im gonna start praying to Joe Pesci.
|
Mush 4 Brains
about tree fiddy


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 8,298
Loc: Tacos
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: pouihi]
#14349133 - 04/25/11 01:46 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
pouihi said: Just to reinforce that christians burned and tortured anything that they didn't like?? "Just because I please, you are a witch so we will now torture and kill you"
And why do you think a religion should be any different just because you're in the states?? It's even worst... I mean "now we don't burn heretics, just their books" 
Well for one the constitution- Quote:
The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is also the first section of the Bill of Rights. It is arguably the most important part of the U.S. Constitution, as it guarantees freedoms of religion, speech, writing and publishing, peaceful assembly, and the freedom to raise grievances with the Government.
Also holding christans accountable for shit that happened hundreds of years ago is like holding white people accountable (in present times) for the slavery of african americans.
|
pouihi
Mary Jane Doe



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 2,384
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
|
|
Quote:
Mush 4 Brains said: guarantees freedoms of religion, speech, writing and publishing, peaceful assembly, and the freedom to raise grievances with the Government.
I don't see where that says acts of violence and censorship towards other religions.
Quote:
Mush 4 Brains said: Also holding christans accountable for shit that happened hundreds of years ago is like holding white people accountable (in present times) for the slavery of african americans.
That would mean ALL white people practiced it and were for slavery which is wrong.
At that time all christians felt that "heretics" had to be dealt with, tortured and killed in public for all to see and applaud. I'm not saying people practice it nowadays (obviously) but it's part of their history, and the way their mentality "developed".
--------------------
"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."
|
4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: pouihi]
#14349230 - 04/25/11 02:02 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
pouihi said:
Quote:
Mush 4 Brains said: guarantees freedoms of religion, speech, writing and publishing, peaceful assembly, and the freedom to raise grievances with the Government.
I don't see where that says acts of violence and censorship towards other religions.
Quote:
Mush 4 Brains said: Also holding christans accountable for shit that happened hundreds of years ago is like holding white people accountable (in present times) for the slavery of african americans.
That would mean ALL white people practiced it and were for slavery which is wrong.
At that time all christians felt that "heretics" had to be dealt with, tortured and killed in public for all to see and applaud. I'm not saying people practice it nowadays (obviously) but it's part of their history, and the way their mentality "developed".
So what evidence do you base the claim that all Christians supported the inquisition on?
Also, all that matters to everyone is their individual existence. All of these things that you subjectively label as "evil" have no bearing on the possible benefits of indulging in Christianity.
-------------------- Live your Life!
|
pouihi
Mary Jane Doe



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 2,384
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: 4896744]
#14349279 - 04/25/11 02:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
iThink said: All of these things that you subjectively label as "evil" have no bearing on the possible benefits of indulging in Christianity.
You're the one talking about labels.
"Subjectively" thinking that Christians have been responsible for a bunch of shit during history, as now stand for or represent principles that are contrary to the freedom of each, or even not wanting your kids to learn the evolution theory, or others mentioned above. I'm not giving my opinion but simply mentioning facts.
If I was Christian like I would probably be referring to them as "evil" or "devil sent" or "heretic" but as I'm fortunately not even close to that I don't give a rats ass to what they do as long as they don't interfere with others and as long as they RESPECT others.
Also I simply don't understand why when talking about religion you only mention trying chistianism as if it were the only religion on earth (again, the least interesting of all btw).
--------------------
"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."
|
4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: pouihi]
#14349526 - 04/25/11 03:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
pouihi said:
Quote:
iThink said: All of these things that you subjectively label as "evil" have no bearing on the possible benefits of indulging in Christianity.
You're the one talking about labels.
"Subjectively" thinking that Christians have been responsible for a bunch of shit during history, as now stand for or represent principles that are contrary to the freedom of each, or even not wanting your kids to learn the evolution theory, or others mentioned above. I'm not giving my opinion but simply mentioning facts.
If I was Christian like I would probably be referring to them as "evil" or "devil sent" or "heretic" but as I'm fortunately not even close to that I don't give a rats ass to what they do as long as they don't interfere with others and as long as they RESPECT others.
Also I simply don't understand why when talking about religion you only mention trying chistianism as if it were the only religion on earth (again, the least interesting of all btw).
The reason I focus on Christianity is because it is by far the most prevalent religious culture in the United States. I couldn't care less whether or not you find it "boring".
Also, your mentioning of subjective "moral" preferences has no objective bearing over anything I said. For the individual, I can see indulgence in Christianity causing subjective benefits. If you want to contribute to this thread why not attack that statement, for it is the focus. You can also objectively say that indulgence in Christianity can cause subjective benefits for an individual.
-------------------- Live your Life!
|
pouihi
Mary Jane Doe



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 2,384
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: 4896744]
#14354393 - 04/26/11 10:25 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
iThink said: You can also objectively say that indulgence in Christianity can cause subjective benefits for an individual.
I could if had any proof of that, which I don't.
--------------------
"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."
|
4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: pouihi]
#14356338 - 04/26/11 05:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
pouihi said:
Quote:
iThink said: You can also objectively say that indulgence in Christianity can cause subjective benefits for an individual.
I could if had any proof of that, which I don't.
So you don't think Christians live happy lives?
-------------------- Live your Life!
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: 4896744]
#14356355 - 04/26/11 05:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Millions of people take comfort in their religion without bothering anybody else. I don't but they do and it isn't just Xtians.
--------------------
|
4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14356380 - 04/26/11 05:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Millions of people take comfort in their religion without bothering anybody else. I don't but they do and it isn't just Xtians.
Yes, I know. I was just focusing on Christianity because this is the religion I am so bombarded with on a daily basis.
-------------------- Live your Life!
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: 4896744]
#14356667 - 04/26/11 05:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
The only religion I've been "bombarded" with is Islam.
--------------------
|
4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14357130 - 04/26/11 07:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zappaisgod said: The only religion I've been "bombarded" with is Islam.
Well, you do not attend an extremely Baptist private high school.
-------------------- Live your Life!
|
pouihi
Mary Jane Doe



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 2,384
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: 4896744]
#14359540 - 04/27/11 04:27 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
iThink said:
Quote:
pouihi said:
Quote:
iThink said: You can also objectively say that indulgence in Christianity can cause subjective benefits for an individual.
I could if had any proof of that, which I don't.
So you don't think Christians live happy lives?
I don't think someone lives a happy life because they're christian, if you didn't have a home, clothing, food and comfort would you live happily just because you're a christian?? That's ridiculous, people praise something and then go around practicing the exact same deadly sins they condemn every day, and not respecting their ten commandments, yes theoretically they are all very religious, just as religious as pedophile priests exiled in the Vatican.
Karl Marx said "Religion is the opium of the people", I think they should probably try some real opium, or MDMA, it would definitely open some doors for them.
--------------------
"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: 4896744]
#14359995 - 04/27/11 08:23 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
iThink said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: The only religion I've been "bombarded" with is Islam.
Well, you do not attend an extremely Baptist private high school.
Poor baby, has to listen to people talk. What a tragedy. Meanwhile Islamists send real bombs.
--------------------
|
NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14360593 - 04/27/11 11:11 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Yeah, all Muslims bomb people. Just like all Christians bomb abortion clinics.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: 4896744]
#14360654 - 04/27/11 11:26 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I've been thinking about finding a church to attend that would be laid-back about my agnostic take on epistemology and my open-ended faith in the redeeming power of Christ. I'm not really big on the Unitarian Universalist idea, but such a Christian church would not be hard to find in the Bay Area.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
pouihi
Mary Jane Doe



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 2,384
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: NetDiver]
#14361413 - 04/27/11 02:26 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: Yeah, all Muslims bomb people. Just like all Christians bomb abortion clinics. 
well said
--------------------
"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: NetDiver]
#14361624 - 04/27/11 03:12 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: Yeah, all Muslims bomb people. Just like all Christians bomb abortion clinics. 
Let's see we have a small number of Christians who have bombed abortion clinics and millions of Muslims who have killed people all over the world with the support and sanction of their religious and political leaders. Yep. They're definitely the same.
--------------------
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14361712 - 04/27/11 03:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
Mush 4 Brains
about tree fiddy


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 8,298
Loc: Tacos
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14361811 - 04/27/11 03:46 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
iThink said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: The only religion I've been "bombarded" with is Islam.
Well, you do not attend an extremely Baptist private high school.
Poor baby, has to listen to people talk. What a tragedy. Meanwhile Islamists send real bombs.
Ive never had someone come to my house in hopes to convert me to the islamic faith. They must know better. Id be sure to answer the door eating a pork chop with a beer in my hand. I havent been bombarded in the least (Though the US does bend over backwards for Muslims.) Christianity and all its off shoots i have been bombarded with. Christians, Baptists, Catholics, Jehovas have all come to my door in hopes of converting me.
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
|
I've only gotten Witnesses and Democrats myself. Oh yeah and two giant jet bombs flown into buildings in what I consider to be my city.
--------------------
|
4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14361974 - 04/27/11 04:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
iThink said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: The only religion I've been "bombarded" with is Islam.
Well, you do not attend an extremely Baptist private high school.
Poor baby, has to listen to people talk. What a tragedy. Meanwhile Islamists send real bombs.
Wow, I love how you can so subtly lace your strawman with personalisms. You just picked on my use of the word "bombarded" and created a whole new stance that I never put forth.
My thread was actually speaking of the benefits associated with following Christianity.
Just so you know, bombarded can be used in situations other than to describe physical attack.
-------------------- Live your Life!
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: 4896744]
#14363298 - 04/27/11 08:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Christians aren't known for suicide bombings, but I think it bears mentioning that they're the ones holing up in compounds and stocking up on guns and ammo throughout the rural US.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14363315 - 04/27/11 08:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Let's see we have a small number of Christians who have bombed abortion clinics and millions of Muslims who have killed people all over the world with the support and sanction of their religious and political leaders. Yep. They're definitely the same.
"Millions" of Muslims is a huuuuuge fucking exaggeration.
|
pouihi
Mary Jane Doe



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 2,384
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14364979 - 04/28/11 02:21 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: Yeah, all Muslims bomb people. Just like all Christians bomb abortion clinics. 
Let's see we have a small number of Christians who have bombed abortion clinics and millions of Muslims who have killed people all over the world with the support and sanction of their religious and political leaders. Yep. They're definitely the same.
US govs through history have murdered millions of innocents, still I don't judge americans by that, and always try to refer to the real responsible who would be the gov, although I can't understand american civilians who feed those wars, but I can't say they all do.
--------------------
"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: NetDiver]
#14365888 - 04/28/11 09:14 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Let's see we have a small number of Christians who have bombed abortion clinics and millions of Muslims who have killed people all over the world with the support and sanction of their religious and political leaders. Yep. They're definitely the same.
"Millions" of Muslims is a huuuuuge fucking exaggeration.
The fuck it is.
--------------------
|
NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: zappaisgod] 1
#14365980 - 04/28/11 09:38 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Well, obviously the figures are difficult to measure, but Al Qaeda, by far the biggest network of terrorist groups, contains only about 20,000 insurgents, which is 1/50th of 1 million.
Muslims all over the world condemned the terrorist attacks they carried out, too.
Islam is not a religion of violence, any more than Christianity is a religion of violence for Christians perpetrating the crusades. Most of the cause for violence in middle-eastern countries can be traced to the oppressive dictatorships that constitute their governments.
(sources:
http://www.islamfortoday.com/murad04.htm http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sheikh-issues-fatwa-against-all-terrorists-1915000.html http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/01/06/muslim.radicalization.study/ )
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: NetDiver]
#14366330 - 04/28/11 11:12 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: Well, obviously the figures are difficult to measure, but Al Qaeda, by far the biggest network of terrorist groups, contains only about 20,000 insurgents, which is 1/50th of 1 million.
Muslims all over the world condemned the terrorist attacks they carried out, too.
Islam is not a religion of violence, any more than Christianity is a religion of violence for Christians perpetrating the crusades. Most of the cause for violence in middle-eastern countries can be traced to the oppressive dictatorships that constitute their governments.
(sources:
http://www.islamfortoday.com/murad04.htm http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sheikh-issues-fatwa-against-all-terrorists-1915000.html http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/01/06/muslim.radicalization.study/ )
There are a billion Muslims. al Qaeda is one of their smaller terror groups. Then there are the Muslim governments and their populations who fund and support the actual bombers. It would only take 0.1% of them to make a million and it is a fuck of a lot higher than that. If 99.9% of Muslims were against it it wouldn't be happening.
Islam most definitely is much more a religion of violence than any other. And if you don't believe me I'm gonna cut your head off. Just ask Theo van Gogh, Salman Rushdie and Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
--------------------
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14366365 - 04/28/11 11:19 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Even if Islam is "more violent" as a religion than any other in the world, how can this delineation help us to stop the violence it causes? Would you advocate the persecution of Islam?
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
|
I advocate the suspicion of Islamists. If that is persecution than so be it.
--------------------
|
g00ru
lit pants tit licker



Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: 4896744]
#14366504 - 04/28/11 11:45 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
i get high as shit off religion all the time. read some holy texts and breathe deep
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
|
Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate


Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
Last seen: 4 days, 20 hours
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14366916 - 04/28/11 01:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Throughout history, though, Christian governments and authorities have probably sanctioned as many as or more violent deaths than Islam (averaged out over the centuries, since Christianity got a 600 year head start).
Also, I would be interested in seeing whether you have evidence for your assertion that more than 0.1% of Muslims are violent radicals. My instincts tell me that's not true, though I'd be interested to see the evidence that demonstrates its truth.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
|
g00ru
lit pants tit licker



Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Lion]
#14366960 - 04/28/11 01:25 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
islam does have a very violent history, it was formed by war and theres other examples, al qaeda and the nation of islam in america. I think it's an amazing tradition and it just came out of a time when this was necessary, if they can ever transcend this violence it'll probably go into a second golden age.
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14367022 - 04/28/11 01:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zappaisgod said: I advocate the suspicion of Islamists. If that is persecution than so be it.
How shall this suspicion be practiced?
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: NetDiver]
#14367235 - 04/28/11 02:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: Islam is not a religion of violence...
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Themes/jihad_passages.html
Quote:
Excerpt K 2:178-179 Set 1, Count 1+2 [2.178]...retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the slain... [2.179] ...there is life for you in (the law of) retaliation, O men of understanding, that you may guard yourselves. Excerpt K 2:190-191 Set 2, Count 3+4 [2.190] ...fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you...[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers. Excerpt K 2:193-194 Set 3, Count 5+6 [193]...fight with them...[194]...whoever then acts aggressively against you, inflict injury on him according to the injury he has inflicted on you... Excerpt K 2:216-218 Set 4, Count 7-9 [2.216] Fighting is enjoined on you...[2.217]... fighting in it. Say: Fighting in it is a grave matter...persecution is graver than slaughter... [2.218]...strove hard in the way of Allah... Excerpt K 2:244 Set 5, Count 10 ...fight in the way of Allah Excerpt K 3:121-126 Set 6, Count 11-16 [3.121]...to lodge the believers in encampments for war...[3.122] When two parties from among you had determined that they should show cowardice [about Jihad]...[3.123]...Allah did certainly assist you at [the Battle of] Badr...[3.124]...[3.125] Yea! if you remain patient and are on your guard, and they come upon you in a headlong manner, your Lord will assist you with five thousand of the havoc-making angels. [3.126] ...victory is only from Allah... Excerpt K 3:140-143 Set 7, Count 17-20 [3.140] If a wound has afflicted you (at [the Battle of] Uhud), a wound like it has also afflicted the (unbelieving) people; and We bring these days to men by turns, and that Allah may know those who believe and take witnesses from among you...[3.141] ...that He [Allah] may purge those who believe and deprive the unbelievers of blessings. [3.142] Yusuf Ali: Did ye think that ye would enter Heaven without God testing those of you who fought hard (in His Cause) and remained steadfast? [3.143] Pickthall: And verily ye used to wish for death before ye met it (in the field). Now ye have seen it [death] with your eyes! Excerpt K 3:146 Set 8, Count 21 Yusuf Ali: How many of the prophets fought (in Allah's way) [Jihad], and with them (fought) large bands of godly men? But they never lost heart if they met with disaster in Allah's way [lost a battle], nor did they weaken (in will) nor give in. And Allah loves those who are firm and steadfast [in Jihad]. Excerpt K 3:152-158 Set 9, Count 22-28 [3.152]...you slew them by His [Allah's] permission [during a Jihad battle]...[3.153] Pickthall: ...the messenger, in your rear, was calling you (to fight)...that which ye missed [war spoils]...[3.154]...They say: Had we any hand in the affair, we would not have been slain here [in a Jihad battle]. Say: Had you remained in your houses, those for whom slaughter was ordained [in a Jihad battle] would certainly have gone forth to the places where they would be slain...[3.155] (As for) those of you who turned back on the day when the two armies met...[3.156] O you who believe! be not like those who disbelieve and say of their brethren when they travel in the earth or engage in fighting: Had they been with us, they would not have died and they would not have been slain...[3.157]...if you are slain in the way of Allah...mercy is better than what they amass [what those who stay home from Jihad receive – no booty on earth and no perks in heaven]. [3.158] …if indeed you die or you are slain, certainly to Allah shall you be gathered together. Excerpt K 3:165-167 Set 10, Count 29-31 [3.165]...you [Muslims] had certainly afflicted (the unbelievers) with twice as much [in a Jihad battle]...[3.166]...when the two armies met ([the Battle of] Uhud)...[3.167]...Come, fight in Allah's way, or defend yourselves...If we knew fighting, we would certainly have followed you... Excerpt K 3:169 Set 11, Count 32 ...reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord [meaning they are enjoying their 72 virgins in heaven]; Excerpt K 3:172-173 Set 12, Count 33+34 [3.172] ...those who responded (at [the Battle of] Uhud) to the call of Allah and the Apostle after a wound had befallen them...shall have a great reward. [3.173] Those to whom the people said: Surely men have gathered against you [in battle], therefore fear them, but this increased their faith, and they said: Allah is sufficient for us and most excellent is the Protector. Excerpt K 3:195 Set 13, Count 35 ...who fought and were slain...I will most certainly make them enter gardens beneath which rivers flow; a reward from Allah, and with Allah is yet better reward. Excerpt K 4:071-072 Set 14, Count 36+37 [4.71] ...go forth in detachments or go forth in a body [to war]. [4.72] ...hang back [from Jihad] ...not present with them [in Jihad]. Excerpt K 4:074-077 Set 15, Count 38-41 [4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward. [4.75] ...fight in the way of Allah... [4.76] Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Satan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Satan... [4.77] ...when fighting is prescribed for them...Our Lord! why hast Thou ordained fighting for us?... Excerpt K 4:084 Set 16, Count 42 Fight then in Allah's way...rouse the believers to ardor maybe Allah will restrain the fighting of those who disbelieve... Excerpt K 4:089-091 Set 17, Count 43-45 [4.89] ...take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah’s way; but if they turn back [to their homes], then seize them and kill them wherever you find them... [4.90] Allah has not given you a way against them [Allah supposedly does not allow Muslims to fight people friendly to Muslims]. [4.91]...seize them and kill them wherever you find them... Excerpt K 4:094-095 Set 18, Count 46+47 [4.94]...when you go to war in Allah's way... [4.95] ...those who strive hard [Jihad] in Allah's way with their property and their persons are not equal...Allah shall grant to the strivers [i.e., Jihadist] above the holders back a mighty reward. Excerpt K 4:100-104 Set 19, Count 48-52 ...whoever flies in Allah's way [forsakes his home to fight in Jihad], he will find in the earth many a place of refuge and abundant resources, and whoever goes forth from his house flying to Allah and His Apostle, and then death overtakes him [in Jihad], his reward is indeed with Allah...[4.101] Rodwell: And when ye go forth to war in the land, it shall be no crime in you to cut short your prayers, if ye fear lest the infidels come upon you; Verily, the infidels are your undoubted enemies! [4.102]...let them take their arms...let them take their precautions and their arms...there is no blame on you, if you are annoyed with rain or if you are sick, that you lay down your arms...[4.103] Khalifa: Once you complete your Contact Prayer (Salat), you shall remember GOD while standing, sitting, or lying down. Once the war is over, you shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salat); the Contact Prayers (Salat) are decreed for the believers at specific times.[4.104]...be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy... Excerpt K 4:141 Set 20, Count 53 Sher Ali:...If you have a victory [in Jihad] from Allah... Excerpt K 5:033 Set 21, Count 54 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned [Pickthall and Yusuf Ali have "exiled" rather than "imprisoned"] Excerpt K 5:035 Set 22, Count 55 ...strive hard [at Jihad] in His way that you may be successful. Excerpt K 5:082 Set 23, Count 56 ...you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe (to be) the Jews [compare with "whenever Jews kindle fire for war, Allah [Muslims] puts it out" (K 005:064)] and those who are polytheists [while they are converted to Islam on pain of death]... Excerpt K 8:001 Set 24, Count 57 Pickthall: ...the spoils of war...The spoils of war belong to Allah and the messenger Excerpt K 8:005 Set 25, Count 58 Even as your Lord caused you to go forth from your house with the truth, though a party of the believers were surely averse; Excerpt K 8:007 Set 26, Count 59 ...Allah promised you one of the two (enemy) parties, that it should be yours: Ye wished that the one unarmed should be yours, but Allah willed to justify the Truth according to His words and to cut off the roots of the Unbelievers. Excerpt K 8:009-010 Set 27, Count 60+61 [8.9]...I will assist you [in Jihad] with a thousand of the angels following one another [see K 008:012]. [8.10] ...Allah only gave it as a good news and that your hearts might be at ease thereby; and victory is only from Allah; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise. Excerpt K 8:012 Set 28, Count 62 ...make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them. Excerpt K 8:015-017 Set 29, Count 63-65 [8.15] ...when you meet those who disbelieve marching for war, then turn not your backs to them. [8.16] ...for the sake of fighting... [8.17] So you did not slay them, but it was Allah Who slew them, and you did not smite when you smote (the enemy), but it was Allah Who smote [Allah gets the credit for Jihad]... Excerpt K 8:039-048 Set 30, Count 66-75 [8.39] Shakir: ...fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah... [8.40] Yusuf Ali: If they [unbelievers] refuse [to stop fighting], be sure that God is your Protector...[8.41] Shakir: ...whatever thing [loot] you gain, a fifth of it is for Allah and for the Apostle...the day on which the two parties met [in a Jihad versus anti-Jihad battle]...[8.42]...Allah might bring about a matter which was to be done, that he who would perish might perish by clear proof [bring success to Muslims engaged in robbing a caravan near Badr against all the odds]...[8.43]...Allah showed them [the Mekkans] to you in your dream as few [fighters]; and if He had shown them [the Mekkans] to you as many [fighters] you would certainly have become weak-hearted [i.e., hearts. See the similar discussion in K 002:249 about how a smaller army can defeat a larger army]...[8.44]...when you met, as few [fighters] in your eyes and He made you to appear little [few fighters] in their eyes, in order that Allah might bring about a matter which was to be done [a Jihad versus anti-Jihad battle brought on by overconfidence in each side]...[8.45]...when you meet a party [in battle], then be firm...[8.46]...obey Allah and His Apostle and do not quarrel for then you will be weak in hearts [demoralized] and your power [to execute Jihad] will depart...[8.47]...be not like those [Mekkans] who came forth from their homes [in an anti-Jihad War on Islamic terrorism]...[8.48]...when the two parties [Muslims versus Mekkans] came in sight of each other he [Satan] turned upon his heels... Excerpt K 8:057-060 Set 31, Count 76-79 Pickthall: [8.57] If thou come on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember. [8.57] Khalifa: When you are betrayed by a group of people, you shall mobilize against them in the same manner. GOD does not love the betrayers. [8.59] Shakir: ...let not those who disbelieve think that they shall come in first; surely they will not escape. [8.60] And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to frighten thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them, whom you do not know (but) Allah knows them; and whatever thing you will spend in Allah's way [for Jihad]... Excerpt K 8:065-075 Set 32, Count 80-90 [8.65] O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand [in other words, do not understand totalitarian ideologies like Islam]. [8.66] ...if there are a hundred patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a thousand they shall overcome two thousand by Allah's permission... [8.67] It is not fit for a prophet that he should take captives unless he has fought and triumphed in the land; you desire the frail goods [i.e., ransom money] of this world... [8.68] ...ransom... [8.69] Eat then of the lawful and good (things) which you have acquired in war [war spoils]...[8.70] O Prophet! say to those of the captives [non-Muslims] who are in your hands: If Allah knows anything good in your hearts, He will give to you better than that which has been taken away from you [in Jihad]...[8.71] Yusuf Ali: But if they have treacherous designs against thee, (O Apostle!)...He [Allah] given (thee) power over them...[8.72] Yusuf Ali: Those who ...fought for the Faith, with their property and their persons, in the cause of God...[8.73] Yusuf Ali: The Unbelievers are protectors, one of another: Unless ye do this, (protect each other), there would be tumult and oppression on earth, and great mischief. [8.74] Yusuf Ali:...fight for the Faith...[8.75] Yusuf Ali: ...fight for the Faith... Excerpt K 9:005 Set 33, Count 91 ...slay the idolaters wherever you find them...take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush... Excerpt K 9:012-014 Set 34, Count 92-94 [9.12] ...fight the leaders of unbelief...[9.13] What! will you not fight a people...[9.14] Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people. Excerpt K 9:016 Set 35, Count 95 ...those of you who have struggled hard [in Jihad] Excerpt K 9:019-020 Set 36, Count 96+97 [9.19] ...strives hard in Allah's way?... [9.20]...strove hard [Jihad] in Allah's way with their property and their souls... Excerpt K 9:024-026 Set 37, Count 98-100 [9.24] ...striving in His way [Jihad]:, then wait till Allah brings about His command [to go on Jihad]: ... [9.25] Certainly Allah helped you in many battlefields and on the day of [the Battle of] Hunain, when your great numbers made you vain, ... [9.26] ...chastised those who disbelieved [Muhammad gives credit to angels and Allah for the actions of Jihadists]... Excerpt K 9:029 Set 38, Count 101 Fight those who do not believe in Allah...nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection. Excerpt K 9:036 Set 39, Count 102 ...fight the polytheists all together as they fight you all together... Excerpt K 9:038-039 Set 40, Count 103+104 [9.38] ...Go forth in Allah's way [to Jihad]... [9.39] If you do not go forth [to go on Jihad], He will chastise you with a painful chastisement and bring in your place a people other than you [to go on Jihad]... Excerpt K 9:041 Set 41, Count 105 Go forth light [lightly armed] and heavy [heavily armed], and strive hard in Allah's way [Jihad] with your property and your persons... Excerpt K 9:044 Set 42, Count 106 ...striving hard with their property and their persons [Jihad] ... Excerpt K 9:052 Set 43, Count 107 ...Allah will afflict you with punishment from Himself or by our hands... Excerpt K 9:073 Set 44, Count 108 ...strive hard [Jihad] against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them... Excerpt K 9:081 Set 45, Count 109 ...they were averse from striving in Allah's way [Jihad] with their property and their persons, and said: Do not go forth [to Jihad] in the heat... Excerpt K 9:083 Set 46, Count 110 ... shall you fight an enemy with me [in Jihad]... Excerpt K 9:086 Set 47, Count 111 ...strive hard [in Jihad] along with His Apostle Excerpt K 9:088 Set 48, Count 112 ...strive hard [in Jihad] with their property and their persons... Excerpt K 9:092 Set 49, Count 113 Yusuf Ali: Nor (is there blame) on those who came to thee to be provided with mounts [saddles on which to go to war], and when thou said, "I can find no mounts for you," they turned back, their eyes streaming with tears of grief that they had no resources wherewith to provide the expenses [to go on Jihad]. Excerpt K 9:111 Set 50, Count 114 ...they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain... Excerpt K 9:120 Set 51, Count 115 Yusuf Ali:...whether they suffered thirst, or fatigue, or hunger, in the cause of Allah [while on a march to Jihad], or trod paths to raise the ire of the Unbelievers [invade their territory], or received any injury whatever from an enemy [during a Jihad battle]... Excerpt K 9:122-123 Set 52, Count 116+117 [9.122] Pickthall:...the believers should not all go out to fight. Of every troop of them, a party only should go forth... [9.123] ...fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness... Excerpt K 16:110 Set 53, Count 118 Yusuf Ali:...who thereafter strive and fight for the faith and patiently persevere... Excerpt K 22:039 Set 54, Count 119 Permission (to fight) is given to those upon whom war is made... Excerpt K 22:058 Set 55, Count 120 Sher Ali: ...those who leave their homes for the cause of Allah, and are then slain or die, Allah will, surely, provide for them a goodly provision... Excerpt K 22:078 Set 56, Count 121 ...strive hard [in Jihad] in (the way of) Allah, (such) a striving a is due to Him... Excerpt K 24:053 Set 57, Count 122 ...they would certainly go forth [to Jihad (see K 024:055)]... Excerpt K 24:055 Set 58, Count 123 Allah has promised to those of you who believe and do good that He will most certainly make them rulers in the earth [as a reward for going on Jihad (see K 024:053)]... Excerpt K 25:052 Set 59, Count 124 Palmer: ...fight strenuously with them in many a strenuous fight. Excerpt K 29:006 Set 60, Count 125 ...whoever strives hard [in Jihad], he strives only for his own soul... Excerpt K 29:069 Set 61, Count 126 ...(as for) those who strive hard [in Jihad] for Us [Allah]... Excerpt K 33:015 Set 62, Count 127 Pickthall: ...they had already sworn unto Allah that they would not turn their backs (to the foe) [in Jihad battle]... Excerpt K 33:018 Set 63, Count 128 ...they come not to the fight [Jihad] but a little... Excerpt K 33:020 Set 64, Count 129 ...they would not fight save a little [in Jihad]. Excerpt K 33:023 Set 65, Count 130 Pickthall: ...Some of them [Jihadists] have paid their vow by death (in battle), and some of them still are waiting... Excerpt K 33:25-27 Set 66, Count 131-133 [33.25]...Allah sufficed the believers in fighting... [33.26]...some [Jews] you killed and you took captive another part. [33.27]...He made you heirs to their [Jewish] land and their dwellings and their property, and (to) a land which you have not yet trodden... Excerpt K 33:050 Set 67, Count 134 ...those [captive women] whom your right hand possesses [i.e., by virtue of the sword used in Jihad] out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war... Excerpt K 42:039 Set 68, Count 135 Sale:...and who, when an injury is done them, avenge themselves... Excerpt K 47:004 Set 69, Count 136 ...when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates...(as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah... Excerpt K 47:020 Set 70, Count 137 ...fighting [allusion to Jihad] is mentioned therein ... Excerpt K 47:035 Set 71, Count 138 Rodwell: Be not fainthearted then; and invite not the infidels to peace when ye have the upper hand: for God is with you, and will not defraud you of the recompense of your works... Excerpt K 48:15-24 Set 72, Count 139-148 [48.15] Pickthall: ...when you set forth to capture booty...[48.16]...You shall soon be invited (to fight) against a people possessing mighty prowess; you will fight against them until they submit...[48.17] Pickthall: There is no blame...for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeys Allah and His messenger [by going on Jihad], He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turns back [from Jihad], him will He punish with a painful doom. [48.18] Certainly Allah was well pleased with the believers when they swore allegiance to you under the tree, and He knew what was in their hearts, so He sent down tranquility on them and rewarded them with a near victory, [48.19] And much booty that they will capture. Allah is ever Mighty, Wise. [48.20] Allah promised you many acquisitions which you will take, then He hastened on this one for you and held back the hands of men from you, and that it may be a sign for the believers and that He may guide you on a right path. [48.21] Sale: And [he also promiseth you] other [spoils], which ye have not [yet] been able [to take]: But now hath God encompassed them [for you]; and God is almighty. [48.22] And if those who disbelieve fight with you, they would certainly turn (their) backs, then they would not find any protector or a helper. [48.23] Such [i.e., the Jihad mentioned the previous verse] has been the course [practice] of Allah that has indeed run before, and you shall not find a change in Allah’s course. [48.24] And He [Allah] it is Who held back...your hands from them [in Jihad] in the valley of Mecca... Excerpt K 49:015 Set 73, Count 149 Sale: ...true believers ...employ their substance and their persons in the defense of God's true religion... Excerpt K 59:002 Set 74, Count 150 ...the hands of the believers [i.e. Muslims demolished Jewish homes] ... Excerpt K 59:5-8 Set 75, Count 151-154 Pickthall:[59.5] Whatsoever palm-trees you cut down or left standing on their roots [during a Jihad siege of the Jews at Madina], it was by Allah's leave, in order that He might confound the evil-livers [Jews]. [59.6] ...that which Allah gave as spoil unto His messenger from them, you urged not any horse or riding-camel for the sake thereof, but Allah gives His messenger lordship over whom He will... [59.7] That which Allah gives as [war] spoil unto His messenger from the people of the townships [Jews], it is for Allah and His messenger...whatsoever [spoils] the messenger gives you, take it...[59.8] ...who seek bounty [war spoils] from Allah... Excerpt K 59:014 Set 76, Count 155 They will not fight against you in a body save in fortified towns or from behind walls... Excerpt K 60:009 Set 77, Count 156 Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion [no fraternizing with the enemy]... Excerpt K 61:004 Set 78, Count 157 ...Allah loves those who fight in His way in ranks as if they were a firm and compact wall. Excerpt K 61:011 Set 79, Count 158 ...struggle hard in Allah's way [Jihad] with your property and your lives... Excerpt K 61:013 Set 80, Count 159 ...victory [in Jihad] near at hand... Excerpt K 63:004 Set 81, Count 160 ...they think every cry to be against them. They are the enemy, therefore beware of them; may Allah destroy them, whence are they turned back? [This verse speaks of internecine Jihad against Muslims deemed infidels or "hypocrites."] Excerpt K 64:014 Set 82, Count 161 ...surely from among your wives and your children there is an enemy to you; therefore beware of them [collaborators with the enemy, especially if the women were once war spoils]... Excerpt K 66:009 Set 83, Count 162 O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be hard against them... Excerpt K 73:020 Set 84, Count 163 ...others who fight in Allah's way... Excerpt K 76:008 Set 85, Count 164 And they [Muslims] give food out of love for Him [Allah] to...the captive [of Jihad] ...
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate


Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
Last seen: 4 days, 20 hours
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Poid]
#14367334 - 04/28/11 02:37 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
That's a large block of quoted text to communicate next to nothing. The problem is not with these passages per se but in people's literal interpretation of them. Just like there would be no harm in the Bible if people didn't pervert its words to discriminate, push legislation against important scientific research, suppress the much needed use of contraception all over the world, and so forth.
Anyway, it's not as if the Bible is all lolipops and unicorns.
"I have come to cast fire upon the Earth; and how I wish it were already kindled! But I have a baptism to undergo, and I shall be distressed until it is accomplished! Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? No, I came to bring the sword." - Jesus
And this is from the less violent of the two testaments.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Poid]
#14367340 - 04/28/11 02:39 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Poid, what you have just posted has no context and constitutes no argument what so ever.
I want you to explain using historical context and real facts how Islam has ever caused an act of violence unattributable to other co-existing factors and in the absence of material, non-religious circumstances conducive to violence.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Lion]
#14367376 - 04/28/11 02:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Lion said: That's a large block of quoted text to communicate next to nothing.
Wow, you honestly think that?
Quote:
Lion said: The problem is not with these passages per se but in people's literal interpretation of them.
I agree, when people interpret these passages literally, we get this: 
Quote:
Lion said: Just like there would be no harm in the Bible if people didn't pervert its words to discriminate, push legislation against important scientific research, suppress the much needed use of contraception all over the world, and so forth.
Anyway, it's not as if the Bible is all lolipops and unicorns.
, what a stupid argument (one I've heard several times)--you think you can somehow use the Bible to excuse those violent Koran passages? Those passages have absolutely nothing to do with the Bible, the Bible is completely irrelevant. 
Try again.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
|
Quote:
Tchan909 said: Poid, what you have just posted has no context and constitutes no argument what so ever.
It doesn't need any context, it's quite direct and clear. Obviously, there is much Islam-fueled violence in this world, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put two and two together and realize that much, if not all of that violence is due to passages of this nature.
Quote:
Tchan909 said: I want you to explain using historical context and real facts how Islam has ever caused an act of violence unattributable to other co-existing factors and in the absence of material, non-religious circumstances conducive to violence.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Poid]
#14367403 - 04/28/11 02:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Poid said:

Regional power politics, imperialism, desperate poverty. Next.
By the way, I'm beginning to be offended by seeing that emoticon in every single one of your posts. You sound like a Bush-era Republican, using 9/11 to clothespin every one of your rationally deficient arguments. You are being very disrespectful to those who lost their lives, not to mention their families and loved ones.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
|
Quote:
Tchan909 said: I want you to explain using historical context and real facts how Islam has ever caused an act of violence unattributable to other co-existing factors and in the absence of material, non-religious circumstances conducive to violence.
Why?
Quote:
Tchan909 said:
Quote:
Poid said:

Regional power politics, imperialism, desperate poverty. Next.
Yet, even in those conditions, religion was used to fuel violence. Again, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize this exceedingly elementary concept.
Quote:
Tchan909 said: By the way, I'm beginning to be offended by seeing that emoticon in every single one of your posts.
And what good is that doing you?
Quote:
Tchan909 said: You sound like a Bush-era Republican, using 9/11 to clothespin every one of your rationally deficient arguments.
Too bad you are unwilling, or otherwise unable to show how my arguments are rationally deficient.
Quote:
Tchan909 said: You are being very disrespectful to those who lost their lives, not to mention their families and loved ones.
No I'm not, I'm just trying to make a point (that you don't seem to be able to comprehend)--I'd post an actual 9/11 picture, but then I'd have to upload it, and posting that graemlin is faster. You seem to need to make a bad guy out of me, it's hilarious. 
Talk about being cynical.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Poid]
#14367462 - 04/28/11 03:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I consider it a rationally deficient and functionally useless trend to blame human misery on fairytales.
If you're going to keep dissecting my posts and even my paragraphs into half-sentences deprived of meaning outside of context I'm not going to argue with you anymore. I'm sorry context gives you so much trouble, but I prefer to do with than without.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
|
Quote:
Tchan909 said: I consider it a rationally deficient and functionally useless trend to blame human misery on fairytales.
Well, what you're saying here is that the violent passages that influence people to cause violence can't be blamed for that violence. Really smart. 
Quote:
Tchan909 said: If you're going to keep dissecting my posts and even my paragraphs into half-sentences deprived of meaning outside of context I'm not going to argue with you anymore. I'm sorry context gives you so much trouble, but I prefer to do with than without.
Context doesn't give me trouble--this is a debate forum, I concentrate on people's individual claims. I'm sorry defending your claims gives you so much trouble.
Which paragraph did I dissect into half-sentences deprived of meaning?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Poid]
#14367493 - 04/28/11 03:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Poid said:Quote:
Tchan909 said: Regional power politics, imperialism, desperate poverty. Next.
Yet, even in those conditions, religion was used to fuel violence. Again, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize this exceedingly elementary concept.
By the way, here I was illustrating the causes of September 11. You don't seem able to grasp the concept that 9/11 was a politically-motivated terrorist act. (Does it help you sleep at night to tell yourself "religion" is responsible for the abject misery in which others live to sustain your comfortable American lifestyle?) The greatest responsibility I'd assign Islam in this tragedy is as "lubricant."
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
|
Selective reading, eh Poid? I said "any more than Christianity." You can find dozens of such passages in the Bible too.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
|
Quote:
Tchan909 said:
Quote:
Poid said:Quote:
Tchan909 said: Regional power politics, imperialism, desperate poverty. Next.
Yet, even in those conditions, religion was used to fuel violence. Again, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize this exceedingly elementary concept.
By the way, here I was illustrating the causes of September 11. You don't seem able to grasp the concept that 9/11 was a politically-motivated terrorist act.
September 11 attacks
Quote:
Osama bin Laden's declaration of a holy war against the United States, and a fatwā signed by bin Laden and others calling for the killing of American civilians in 1998, are seen by investigators as evidence of his motivation to commit such acts.
Holy war? Yeah, politically motivated.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: NetDiver]
#14367539 - 04/28/11 03:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: Selective reading, eh Poid? I said "any more than Christianity." You can find dozens of such passages in the Bible too.
I know you said that.
So what if there are dozens of such passages in the Bible? People aren't being influenced by those passages today to commit acts of violence. 
Christianity may have been a violent religion in the past (e.g. the crusades), but it isn't so much today. Islam has been violent since its birth.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Poid]
#14367551 - 04/28/11 03:18 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I'll be perfectly honest, Poid: I can think of no way to win an argument against such a gaping vacuum of practical, real-life common sense and background information as you have just posed me.
I would have to write a book to tell you why you're wrong.
And I suppose that's MY fault.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Poid]
#14367563 - 04/28/11 03:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
That has more to do with the culture than the religion. America is not a desperately poor country ruled by a violent dictator.
When deciding whether or not a specific religion condones violence, you have to look to the texts. And the fact is, the texts of both Christianity and Islam condone violence (probably in roughly an equal amount).
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: NetDiver]
#14367568 - 04/28/11 03:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: That has more to do with the culture than the religion. America is not a desperately poor country ruled by a violent dictator.
When deciding whether or not a specific religion condones violence, you have to look to the texts. And the fact is, the texts of both Christianity and Islam condone violence (probably in roughly an equal amount).
Don't even try. He actually trusts the words of Osama bin Laden more than he trusts ours.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
|
Also, Poid, you quoted a lot of passages about "Jihad," which is often mis-interpreted to mean a full-scale war- when in reality it's just the arabic word for "struggle." In the Qua'ran it refers as much to an internal struggle against your temptations as an external war.
Not asking that you trust me (over Bin Laden), just that you attempt a rational, objective interpretation instead of just swallowing the media's sensationalist interpretation.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
|
Quote:
Tchan909 said: I'll be perfectly honest, Poid: I can think of no way to win an argument against such a gaping vacuum of practical, real-life common sense and background information as you have just posed me.
And I can't lose to such a gaping vacuum of practical, real-life common sense and background information as you have posed me. 
Quote:
Tchan909 said: I would have to write a book to tell you why you're wrong.
And I suppose that's MY fault. 
Don't waste your time, you can't even properly debate, and think that needling an opponent somehow constitutes an argument.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Poid]
#14367622 - 04/28/11 03:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Keep staring at that mirror, Poid.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: NetDiver]
#14367625 - 04/28/11 03:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: When deciding whether or not a specific religion condones violence, you have to look to the texts.
Why, because you say so? 
Religion is a cultural system, which means that it is made up of people. This further means that the actions of any religious person reflect on his/her religion.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Poid]
#14367632 - 04/28/11 03:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I've used this on you before Poid, and I doubt you'll be any more receptive this time to such an elegant deconstruction of your ham-fisted logic, but we might as well hold the German language responsible for World Wars I and II.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: NetDiver]
#14367650 - 04/28/11 03:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: Also, Poid, you quoted a lot of passages about "Jihad," which is often mis-interpreted to mean a full-scale war- when in reality it's just the arabic word for "struggle." In the Qua'ran it refers as much to an internal struggle against your temptations as an external war.
Jihad
Quote:
Muslims use the word in a religious context to refer to three types of struggles: an internal struggle to maintain faith, the struggle to improve the Muslim society, or the struggle to defend Islam.
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: Not asking that you trust me (over Bin Laden), just that you attempt a rational, objective interpretation instead of just swallowing the media's sensationalist interpretation.
Sure.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
|
Quote:
Tchan909 said: I've used this on you before Poid, and I doubt you'll be any more receptive this time to such an elegant deconstruction of your ham-fisted logic...
Yet you can never deconstruct my logic. 
Or even have a civil debate for that matter. 
Quote:
Tchan909 said: ...but we might as well hold the German language responsible for World Wars I and II.
Talk about "ham-fisted" logic. 
Why do you think religion = language?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Poid]
#14367685 - 04/28/11 03:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Can you read, man? I did not say that religion = language. Both, however, are cultural systems used to co-ordinate individuals in society.
Would Pearl Harbor have been bombed if Emperor Hirohito had no language with which to command his bombers? No. So by your logic, we should abolish the Japanese language so that such atrocities never occur again.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Poid]
#14367686 - 04/28/11 03:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Yeah, by posting those dictionary definitions you proved my point. I said "as much of an internal struggle as a war," not "entirely about internal struggle and not about war at all." And it's right there in the definition. Your bolded letters can't hide it. 
Plus, most religions have some sort of provisions for war. Check out everything St. Thomas Aquinas wrote about "just war" and "divine command."
Now, care to determine which of the verses you posted refer to which kind of "jihad," and remove the ones that aren't referring to violent war?
Or would you rather admit that you included all of those verses that mention "jihad" based upon an ignorant interpretation (or a deliberately wrong one), with the intention of making it seem like there were more verses condoning violence than there really are?
Edited by NetDiver (04/28/11 03:46 PM)
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
|
Quote:
Tchan909 said: Can you read, man? I did not say that religion = language. Both, however, are cultural systems used to co-ordinate individuals in society.
I thought you implied that, I didn't think you typed it (Can I read, ).
In what way is religion used to coordinate individuals in society? Do you honestly think that's its purpose?
Quote:
Tchan909 said: Would Pearl Harbor have been bombed if Emperor Hirohito had no language with which to command his bombers? No. So by your logic, we should abolish the Japanese language so that such atrocities never occur again.
Language
Quote:
Language may refer either to the specifically human capacity for acquiring and using complex systems of communication, or to a specific instance of such a system of complex communication.
Religion
Quote:
Religion is a cultural system that creates powerful and long-lasting meaning by establishing symbols that relate humanity to beliefs and values.
Yeah, totally similar.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: NetDiver]
#14367734 - 04/28/11 03:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: Now, care to determine which of the verses you posted refer to which kind of "jihad," and remove the ones that aren't referring to violent war?
Pretty much all of the ones that say "fight" and "war".
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: Or would you rather admit that you included all of those verses that mention "jihad" based upon an ignorant interpretation (or a deliberately wrong one), with the intention of making it seem like there were more verses condoning violence than there really are?
I can't admit that because that's not what I thought--not all of those verses mention the term "jihad", they are specifically (obviously) about the type of jihad that I put in bold.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Poid]
#14367739 - 04/28/11 03:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Yeah, I think religions were created in order to provide for social harmony and societal norms.
What do YOU think religion is for?
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: NetDiver]
#14367743 - 04/28/11 03:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: When deciding whether or not a specific religion condones violence, you have to look to the texts.
Why, because you say so? 
Religion is a cultural system, which means that it is made up of people. This further means that the actions of any religious person reflect on his/her religion.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
|
The vast majority of the verses that mention Jihad do not mention violence or war.
Shit, generally I'm the last one to defend religion, but your claim that Islam is inherently more violent than Christianity is just plain wrong. Christianity has incited violence in the past when Islam wasn't doing so as well.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
|
Quote:
Tchan909 said: What do YOU think religion is for?
To provide "long-lasting meaning".
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Poid]
#14367768 - 04/28/11 03:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Do you copy all of your personal meanings wholesale from external sources?
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: NetDiver]
#14367775 - 04/28/11 03:54 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: Shit, generally I'm the last one to defend religion, but your claim that Islam is inherently more violent than Christianity is just plain wrong.
I never said that it's inherently more violent than Christianity--Islam, today, is more violent that Christianity. How can you deny this?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
|
Quote:
Tchan909 said: Do you copy all of your personal meanings wholesale from external sources?
What do you mean by "personal meanings"?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Poid]
#14367792 - 04/28/11 03:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I asked you what YOU thought religion was for and you quoted a dictionary definition at me.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
|
Yeah, and?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: NetDiver]
#14367807 - 04/28/11 03:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: The vast majority of the verses that mention Jihad do not mention violence or war.
Who cares? What verses say is irrelevant, what people do in the name if Jihad is.
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: Shit, generally I'm the last one to defend religion, but your claim that Islam is inherently more violent than Christianity is just plain wrong. Christianity has incited violence in the past when Islam wasn't doing so as well.
Islam is the most violent religion on the planet today. No other religion is even close. Every single country that borders and Islamic country has constant violence and war. To think otherwise is politically correct foolishness and naivety.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Poid] 1
#14367812 - 04/28/11 03:59 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Well, that's obviously not what you think religion is for, it's how the dictionary defines religion.
I'm just wondering if you've ever tried the whole "thinking for yourself" thang.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
|
|
Making up definitions on the spot to suit your preconceived beliefs is not 'thinking for yourself'. Its intellectual laziness.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
|
Quote:
Tchan909 said: I'm just wondering if you've ever tried the whole "thinking for yourself" thang.
Ah, so quoting definitions means I don't think for myself? Genius.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: DieCommie]
#14367826 - 04/28/11 04:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: The vast majority of the verses that mention Jihad do not mention violence or war.
Who cares? What verses say is irrelevant, what people do in the name if Jihad is.
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: Shit, generally I'm the last one to defend religion, but your claim that Islam is inherently more violent than Christianity is just plain wrong. Christianity has incited violence in the past when Islam wasn't doing so as well.
Islam is the most violent religion on the planet today. No other religion is even close. Every single country that borders and Islamic country has constant violence and war. To think otherwise is politically correct foolishness and naivety.
But is this a temporal phenomenon or is it an inherent quality of Islam as a historical religion? I think that's what we're debating.
I am personally of the opinion that the association between Islam and violence is purely incidental, and that the Islamic world is currently suffering from a number of sociopolitical problems for which Islam as a religion cannot and should not be held accountable.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Poid]
#14367829 - 04/28/11 04:02 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
Tchan909 said: I'm just wondering if you've ever tried the whole "thinking for yourself" thang.
Ah, so quoting definitions means I don't think for myself? Genius.
Again, I asked what YOU think (capitalization included) and you quoted a dictionary... such does not indicate independent thought.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
|
So if I think dictionary definitions are accurate, this does not indicate independent thought? Genius.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
|
|
So violence in the US, Britain, France, Spain, Balkans, Sudan, Israel, Iraq, Kashmir, Sir Lanka, Chechnya, Philippines, Indonesia, Ethiopia... Nearly every conflict on earth involves muslims. The races are different, the sociopolitical situations are different, the geographic locations are different... the one common thread is Islam, and yet you proclaim that its incidental. You are fooling yourself. And if I may go out on a limb, I think its a function of your intense white guilt. You simply are not able to place blame on non-white or non-western peoples and have to look for some other scapegoat to justify your world view.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Poid]
#14367864 - 04/28/11 04:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Poid said: So if I think dictionary definitions are accurate, this does not indicate independent thought? Genius.
If I wanted the dictionary definition of "religion" I would have looked up "religion" in a dictionary. Instead, I asked you a question about your thinking, and you were unable or unwilling to answer my question straightforwardly.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
|
Quote:
Tchan909 said:
Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: The vast majority of the verses that mention Jihad do not mention violence or war.
Who cares? What verses say is irrelevant, what people do in the name if Jihad is.
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: Shit, generally I'm the last one to defend religion, but your claim that Islam is inherently more violent than Christianity is just plain wrong. Christianity has incited violence in the past when Islam wasn't doing so as well.
Islam is the most violent religion on the planet today. No other religion is even close. Every single country that borders and Islamic country has constant violence and war. To think otherwise is politically correct foolishness and naivety.
But is this a temporal phenomenon or is it an inherent quality of Islam as a historical religion? I think that's what we're debating.
That's not what anybody else besides you is "debating".
Quote:
Tchan909 said: I am personally of the opinion that the association between Islam and violence is purely incidental, and that the Islamic world is currently suffering from a number of sociopolitical problems for which Islam as a religion cannot and should not be held accountable.
People kill in the name of Islam, what don't you fucking get?
Quote:
Tchan909 said:
Quote:
Poid said: So if I think dictionary definitions are accurate, this does not indicate independent thought? Genius.
If I wanted the dictionary definition of "religion" I would have looked up "religion" in a dictionary. Instead, I asked you a question about your thinking, and you were unable or unwilling to answer my question straightforwardly.
My thinking lines up with dictionary definitions--what is the problem?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14367881 - 04/28/11 04:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zappaisgod said: I advocate the suspicion of Islamists. If that is persecution than so be it.
I agree.
-------------------- Live your Life!
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: DieCommie]
#14367890 - 04/28/11 04:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DieCommie said: So violence in the US, Britain, France, Spain, Balkans, Sudan, Israel, Iraq, Kashmir, Sir Lanka, Chechnya, Philippines, Indonesia, Ethiopia... Nearly every conflict on earth involves muslims. The races are different, the sociopolitical situations are different, the geographic locations are different... the one common thread is Islam, and yet you proclaim that its incidental. You are fooling yourself. And if I may go out on a limb, I think its a function of your intense white guilt. You simply are not able to place blame on non-white or non-western peoples and have to look for some other scapegoat to justify your world view.
Oh my God, this one again. 
How about Congo? That's not part of the Islamic world, but it is immediately adjacent, and it's experiencing the same difficulties and the same forms of violence.
Blaming Islam is intellectually lazy and will not yield solutions to any problem other than that of the white guilt you must insist on projecting onto every argument you get into that involves non-whites.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
|
|
Quote:
Tchan909 said:
Quote:
DieCommie said: So violence in the US, Britain, France, Spain, Balkans, Sudan, Israel, Iraq, Kashmir, Sir Lanka, Chechnya, Philippines, Indonesia, Ethiopia... Nearly every conflict on earth involves muslims. The races are different, the sociopolitical situations are different, the geographic locations are different... the one common thread is Islam, and yet you proclaim that its incidental. You are fooling yourself. And if I may go out on a limb, I think its a function of your intense white guilt. You simply are not able to place blame on non-white or non-western peoples and have to look for some other scapegoat to justify your world view.
Oh my God, this one again. 
How about Congo? That's not part of the Islamic world, but it is immediately adjacent, and it's experiencing the same difficulties and the same forms of violence.
Blaming Islam is intellectually lazy and will not yield solutions to any problem other than that of the white guilt you must insist on projecting onto every argument you get into that involves non-whites.
Wow, you argument that for this being no more than coincidence is that a country in Africa is at war?
-------------------- Live your Life!
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: 4896744]
#14367916 - 04/28/11 04:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
His "arguments" get funnier and funnier as time passes.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: 4896744]
#14367940 - 04/28/11 04:20 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Africa and the Middle-East have been devastated by the effects of globalization and industrialization, and for the past century have been controlled by a steady succession of unscrupulous warlords and puppet states, many of whom have been supported by external powers who have interests in the rich resources of the region.
Exploitative dictatorships have no problems with mining diamonds using slave labor, and they pass the savings on to us. The same goes for oil-rich countries.
DieCommie will undoubtedly ascribe this position of mine to "white guilt," but nonwhite nations have also exploited this region and share responsibility. I blame Asia every bit as much as I blame Europe, but ultimately to blame are the powermongers who take advantage and perpetuate their fellow human's misery to live in luxury.
This is a very human problem. To blame races or religions is really shortsighted.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
|
|
Quote:
How about Congo? That's not part of the Islamic world, but it is immediately adjacent, and it's experiencing the same difficulties and the same forms of violence.
Yea, there are a few conflicts that dont involve Muslims. But that is of little solace to the millions being oppressed by Muslims world wide. People killing people all over the world, in the name of Islam as proclaimed by them, against both western and non-western civilizations. As much as you dont want it to be true, it is. Dozens of counties and millions of people have fallen victim to it.
As for the guilt, what can I say - I think you are consumed with it. I see it as the overarching stroke in much of your posts and opinions, and I think you have fallen victim to it.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
|
Quote:
Tchan909 said: This is a very human problem. To blame races or religions is really shortsighted.
Right, and you can't blame Arabs/Islam for the erection of Mosques.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Poid]
#14367966 - 04/28/11 04:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
Tchan909 said: This is a very human problem. To blame races or religions is really shortsighted.
Right, and you can't blame Arabs/Islam for the erection of Mosques. 
What does this have to do with anything?
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: DieCommie]
#14367967 - 04/28/11 04:25 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DieCommie said: As for the guilt, what can I say - I think you are consumed with it. I see it as the overarching stroke in much of your posts and opinions, and I think you have fallen victim to it.
What you think has no bearing on the debate save how it might inform your arguments, of which you have presented none.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
|
Islam is to blame for the erection of mosques in the same way that it is to blame for Islam-fueled terrorist attacks.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Poid]
#14368001 - 04/28/11 04:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
What motives did Islam have in the murder of thousands of innocents in your favorite atrocity against humanity, 9/11?
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
|
Quote:
Tchan909 said:
Quote:
DieCommie said: As for the guilt, what can I say - I think you are consumed with it. I see it as the overarching stroke in much of your posts and opinions, and I think you have fallen victim to it.
What you think has no bearing on the debate save how it might inform your arguments, of which you have presented none.
You keep criticizing our arguments, but it is you who can't seem to debate properly. 
Quote:
Tchan909 said: What motives did Islam have in the murder of thousands of innocents in your favorite atrocity against humanity, 9/11?
I already provided evidence which showed that it was part of a holy war.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
|
|
Quote:
Tchan909 said: ... your arguments, of which you have presented none.
I think I presented them just fine. You are incorrectly characterizing the conflicts as African and middle eastern which allows you to draw on many commonalities within that sphere. I take a more broad perspective and look at the globe as a whole. I characterize the conflicts as centered in the middle east, but spanning the globe. From Spain and N. Africa all the way to the Philippians. From India to Russia. You can trace the spread of Islam from Arabia to the West into Spain, to the East into Indonesia and the Phillipines, and north to the border of Russia and the Balkans. This path of cultural and religious spread from Arabia correlates to our modern and recent global conflict landscape. Its really the only thing that such disparate peoples have in common, that and they publicly claim to fight and kill in the name of Islam.
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Lion]
#14368595 - 04/28/11 06:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Lion said: Throughout history, though, Christian governments and authorities have probably sanctioned as many as or more violent deaths than Islam (averaged out over the centuries, since Christianity got a 600 year head start).
Now. I live now. If I was living during the Spanish Inquisition I would have a different opinion.Quote:
Also, I would be interested in seeing whether you have evidence for your assertion that more than 0.1% of Muslims are violent radicals. My instincts tell me that's not true, though I'd be interested to see the evidence that demonstrates its truth.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1783061/posts http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-472791/One-11-British-Muslims-backs-suicide-bombers-says-Brown-aide.html http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/05/22/us-usa-muslims-poll-idUSN2244293620070522 http://www.cnsnews.com/node/53865
Quote:
In the Pew Global Attitudes Project poll released on Thursday, 68 percent of Palestinian Muslim respondents said suicide bombings against civilians were justifiable “to defend Islam from its enemies.” That view was shared by 43 percent of respondents in Nigeria and 38 percent in Lebanon, where 51 percent of Shi’ites held the view compared to 25 percent of Sunnis. Elsewhere, the proportion of Muslim respondents supporting suicide bombings against civilians was 15 percent in Egypt, 13 percent in Indonesia, 12 percent in Jordan, seven percent in Israel (Muslim Arab citizens), five percent in Pakistan and four percent in Turkey.
Millions. Tens of millions, actually
--------------------
|
foliocb
always running



Registered: 07/14/08
Posts: 1,152
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14369159 - 04/28/11 07:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
America, the country backed by pro-Christian morals has killed more innocent people(particularly innocent brown people) then any other country/religious system in the world. Christianity is and has been the single biggest reactionary force since the emergence of the judeo-christian religions. Not only has it caused of millions if not billions of deaths, but it has also hindered scientific progress and in turn our own evolution.
Islam in particular is really no different then Christianity, the only difference in todays world is that Islamic countries have not had their 'proper revolutions' that the western world has already gone through(women rights, gays, etc). Islam in todays world is basically how Christian culture and societies were back in the day. Just as, if not more brutal and limiting. Christians are no different, they all believe the same bullshit that's been spoonfed to them since birth.
Only difference now is that muslim 'terrorists' are a rag tag group of people using weapons that they most likely bought from America many years ago... where as America, particularly our govt and military which is diluted with a bunch of religious fucks use much better weapons, kill way more innocent people and are just better murderers in general.
As for 9/11, who's to say that it was caused by muslims anyway? Please prove... and don't use FoxNews'Americas most trusted news source' as your reference 
It doesn't take a scientist to figure out that all you need to do to get popular backing in a war is make it look like your country got attacked first, preferably killing around 1000-3000 of your own people. Worked atleast 3 times in america and in Germany. The end... go fuck yourselves
-------------------- ^v^
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: foliocb]
#14369332 - 04/28/11 08:23 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I agree with everything you just said.
Also, I happen to have come to the conclusion that anyone who believes a simple mythology can unilaterally cause a person to do violence (or make any other decision, for that matter) is a theist. The belief I have described implies the existence of supernatural forces which influence the natural world.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: foliocb]
#14371701 - 04/29/11 08:40 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
foliocb said: America, the country backed by pro-Christian morals has killed more innocent people(particularly innocent brown people) then any other country/religious system in the world. Christianity is and has been the single biggest reactionary force since the emergence of the judeo-christian religions. Not only has it caused of millions if not billions of deaths, but it has also hindered scientific progress and in turn our own evolution.
Islam in particular is really no different then Christianity, the only difference in todays world is that Islamic countries have not had their 'proper revolutions' that the western world has already gone through(women rights, gays, etc). Islam in todays world is basically how Christian culture and societies were back in the day. Just as, if not more brutal and limiting. Christians are no different, they all believe the same bullshit that's been spoonfed to them since birth.
Only difference now is that muslim 'terrorists' are a rag tag group of people using weapons that they most likely bought from America many years ago... where as America, particularly our govt and military which is diluted with a bunch of religious fucks use much better weapons, kill way more innocent people and are just better murderers in general.
As for 9/11, who's to say that it was caused by muslims anyway? Please prove... and don't use FoxNews'Americas most trusted news source' as your reference 
It doesn't take a scientist to figure out that all you need to do to get popular backing in a war is make it look like your country got attacked first, preferably killing around 1000-3000 of your own people. Worked atleast 3 times in america and in Germany. The end... go fuck yourselves 
What utter nonsense but this is the wrong forum for a complete rebuttal.
Like I said, Christianity was violently oppressive several hundred years ago. I don't live several hundred years ago. I live now, when Muslims are violently oppressive. Millions upon millions of them.
--------------------
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14371735 - 04/29/11 08:51 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
These Islam sympathizers will never get it--just look at them, they bring up shit from centuries ago as evidence to back up their position that Islam is not a violent religion.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Poid]
#14371993 - 04/29/11 10:39 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Palestinian bombings of civilians are due much more to political reasons than religious ones. Their fucking country was taken away and given to the Israelis, who perpetrate violence against them. I would be kind of pissed too.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: NetDiver]
#14372035 - 04/29/11 10:48 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: Palestinian bombings of civilians are due much more to political reasons than religious ones.
Maybe, but we're not talking about just them, we're talking about all Muslims from around the globe--I'm sure they inject their religion into the killings somehow, though.
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: Their fucking country was taken away and given to the Israelis, who perpetrate violence against them. I would be kind of pissed too.
They lost their land in a war, similarly to how Mexico lost a whole bunch of land to the US in a war; Israel perpetrates violence against them in defense of that land.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14372162 - 04/29/11 11:20 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zappaisgod said: What utter nonsense but this is the wrong forum for a complete rebuttal.
What utter nonsense - this is a debate forum. If you don't want to form a complete rebuttal, just admit that you're too lazy to write the book it would require to do so adequately.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: NetDiver]
#14372167 - 04/29/11 11:21 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: Their fucking country was taken away and given to the Israelis, who perpetrate violence against them. I would be kind of pissed too.
Sounds like white guilt to me.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
|
Quote:
Tchan909 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: What utter nonsense but this is the wrong forum for a complete rebuttal.
What utter nonsense - this is a debate forum.
Yeah, but guess which forum this isn't. 
Quote:
Tchan909 said:
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: Their fucking country was taken away and given to the Israelis, who perpetrate violence against them. I would be kind of pissed too.
Sounds like white guilt to me.
Maybe.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Poid]
#14372208 - 04/29/11 11:31 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Are you saying that discussion regarding the real-world circumstances to which people adapt their philosophies is inappropriate for the philosophical debate forum?
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
|
No, I'm saying that it's not utter nonsense that zappa doesn't feel like this is the proper forum for political discussion. I think we have a forum for that here somewhere...
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Poid]
#14372222 - 04/29/11 11:35 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
I don't think foliocb was making a political argument. He was examining the intersection between politics, philosophy, and theology, which is massive. If such discussion is inappropriate here, then neither is it appropriate in the politics forum or the spirituality forum.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
|
Quote:
Tchan909 said: I don't think foliocb was making a political argument.
Because his argument is what zappa thought is inappropriate for this forum. 
You put it in bold yourself, genius, wrong forum for a complete rebuttal.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Poid]
#14372240 - 04/29/11 11:42 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Then NO forum is appropriate for a complete rebuttal, and we shall resign ourselves to arguing in neatly discrete circles.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate


Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
Last seen: 4 days, 20 hours
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14372379 - 04/29/11 12:20 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
foliocb said: America, the country backed by pro-Christian morals has killed more innocent people(particularly innocent brown people) then any other country/religious system in the world. Christianity is and has been the single biggest reactionary force since the emergence of the judeo-christian religions. Not only has it caused of millions if not billions of deaths, but it has also hindered scientific progress and in turn our own evolution.
Islam in particular is really no different then Christianity, the only difference in todays world is that Islamic countries have not had their 'proper revolutions' that the western world has already gone through(women rights, gays, etc). Islam in todays world is basically how Christian culture and societies were back in the day. Just as, if not more brutal and limiting. Christians are no different, they all believe the same bullshit that's been spoonfed to them since birth.
Only difference now is that muslim 'terrorists' are a rag tag group of people using weapons that they most likely bought from America many years ago... where as America, particularly our govt and military which is diluted with a bunch of religious fucks use much better weapons, kill way more innocent people and are just better murderers in general.
As for 9/11, who's to say that it was caused by muslims anyway? Please prove... and don't use FoxNews'Americas most trusted news source' as your reference 
It doesn't take a scientist to figure out that all you need to do to get popular backing in a war is make it look like your country got attacked first, preferably killing around 1000-3000 of your own people. Worked atleast 3 times in america and in Germany. The end... go fuck yourselves 
What utter nonsense but this is the wrong forum for a complete rebuttal.
Like I said, Christianity was violently oppressive several hundred years ago. I don't live several hundred years ago. I live now, when Muslims are violently oppressive. Millions upon millions of them.
You made a very good rebuttal to my last post, so I have another question for you. How many American Evangelicals do you think support Holy War in the Middle East as a way of bringing about the End of Days? I'd bet it's in the tens of millions.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Lion]
#14372382 - 04/29/11 12:21 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Damn, Lion, that is some nasty white guilt you've got going on there.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Lion]
#14372401 - 04/29/11 12:25 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Lion said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
foliocb said: America, the country backed by pro-Christian morals has killed more innocent people(particularly innocent brown people) then any other country/religious system in the world. Christianity is and has been the single biggest reactionary force since the emergence of the judeo-christian religions. Not only has it caused of millions if not billions of deaths, but it has also hindered scientific progress and in turn our own evolution.
Islam in particular is really no different then Christianity, the only difference in todays world is that Islamic countries have not had their 'proper revolutions' that the western world has already gone through(women rights, gays, etc). Islam in todays world is basically how Christian culture and societies were back in the day. Just as, if not more brutal and limiting. Christians are no different, they all believe the same bullshit that's been spoonfed to them since birth.
Only difference now is that muslim 'terrorists' are a rag tag group of people using weapons that they most likely bought from America many years ago... where as America, particularly our govt and military which is diluted with a bunch of religious fucks use much better weapons, kill way more innocent people and are just better murderers in general.
As for 9/11, who's to say that it was caused by muslims anyway? Please prove... and don't use FoxNews'Americas most trusted news source' as your reference 
It doesn't take a scientist to figure out that all you need to do to get popular backing in a war is make it look like your country got attacked first, preferably killing around 1000-3000 of your own people. Worked atleast 3 times in america and in Germany. The end... go fuck yourselves 
What utter nonsense but this is the wrong forum for a complete rebuttal.
Like I said, Christianity was violently oppressive several hundred years ago. I don't live several hundred years ago. I live now, when Muslims are violently oppressive. Millions upon millions of them.
You made a very good rebuttal to my last post, so I have another question for you. How many American Evangelicals do you think support Holy War in the Middle East as a way of bringing about the End of Days? I'd bet it's in the tens of millions.
Support? As far as I know, none. They sure aren't chopping any heads off over it or sending money to the families of suicide bombers.
--------------------
|
DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
|
|
Quote:
How many American Evangelicals do you think support Holy War in the Middle East as a way of bringing about the End of Days? I'd bet it's in the tens of millions.
Id bet its orders of magnitude less than that.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14372411 - 04/29/11 12:27 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
How many of those 68% of Palestinian Muslims who support terrorist action against what they see as colonialists and invaders are actually chopping off heads and launching missiles? And how many of them have carried out suicide bombings?
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: DieCommie]
#14372412 - 04/29/11 12:27 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
How many American Evangelicals do you think support Holy War in the Middle East as a way of bringing about the End of Days? I'd bet it's in the tens of millions.
Id bet its orders of magnitude less than that.
Please back your wagers up with data.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
|
|
Why single me out? Lion is the one that made the original baseless claim.
|
DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
|
|
Quote:
Tchan909 said: How many of those 68% of Palestinian Muslims who support terrorist action against what they see as colonialists and invaders are actually chopping off heads and launching missiles? And how many of them have carried out suicide bombings? 
Why is that relevant? How many nazis actually killed jews? How many southerners actually owned slaves? How many people in the armed forces have actually killed somebody?
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: DieCommie]
#14372438 - 04/29/11 12:33 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
|
Quote:
Tchan909 said: How many of those 68% of Palestinian Muslims who support terrorist action against what they see as colonialists and invaders are actually chopping off heads and launching missiles? And how many of them have carried out suicide bombings? 
They elected a terrorist organization to head their government. And they see a lot of things that are bullshit. Like that Jews in Israel are invaders. Some of them would be happily living in Israel with full voting rights if they hadn't tried to murder all the Jews. But they did so they don't. Then there are the Egyptians and Jordanian Pallys. Notice that the countries they came from don't want anything to do with them at all. How come?
Then we have the whole millions upon millions of Muslims in other parts of the world who persist in violent acts for utter bullshit. Like making a nasty movie or cartoon about the pedophile prophet. That doesn't have one ballsack's worth of relevance to the Pally freakshow.
--------------------
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: DieCommie]
#14372450 - 04/29/11 12:36 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
Tchan909 said: How many of those 68% of Palestinian Muslims who support terrorist action against what they see as colonialists and invaders are actually chopping off heads and launching missiles? And how many of them have carried out suicide bombings? 
Why is that relevant? How many nazis actually killed jews? How many southerners actually owned slaves? How many people in the armed forces have actually killed somebody?
How many Americans supported war on Iraq? Most.
Oh but I forgot - this is a "political debate" because America's so smart we don't believe in God anymore!
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
|
I'm about to go get some vitamin D, exercise, and mental stimulation by natural foliage and geography. I'll continue this elegant circular dance with you good fellows when I return.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate


Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
Last seen: 4 days, 20 hours
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: DieCommie]
#14372481 - 04/29/11 12:45 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Well, according to Gallup one third of Americans believe the Bible is literally true. Given the fact that the Middle East is of huge relevance in Biblical ideas about the Apocalypse, and that these ideas involve war and the defeat of infidels, and given the foreign policy of the (recent) Bush administration, it is no surprise that wealthy evangelical members of the Council for National Policy (among others) made huge contributions to George Bush's electoral campaigns, and that evangelical Christians overwhelmingly supported his candidacy. There really is a large contingent of Americans who throw their support behind foreign policies (to say nothing of irrational domestic policies) which have a strongly religious agenda, and plenty of wealthy people whose financial largesse has made the "Crusade" (Bush's word, not mine) of the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars possible.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
|
Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate


Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
Last seen: 4 days, 20 hours
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Lion]
#14372496 - 04/29/11 12:52 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
|
foliocb
always running



Registered: 07/14/08
Posts: 1,152
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Lion]
#14373125 - 04/29/11 03:05 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
yeah... the US/israel are perpetuating most of the violence in the middle east... especially funny when we sell/plant weapons in the middle east then call the middle east 'a dangerous place' and then proceed to bomb the shit out of those brown ppl... oh im sorry... 'terrorists'.
Yeah, with 3000+ nukes i'd say we're the terrorists and are just as fucked up as every other religious nuts out there.
-------------------- ^v^
|
pouihi
Mary Jane Doe



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 2,384
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14373215 - 04/29/11 03:21 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zappaisgod said: I live now, when Muslims are violently oppressive. Millions upon millions of them.
Just as violently oppressive or less as the US gov.
--------------------
"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: pouihi]
#14373385 - 04/29/11 03:56 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Hardly. They try to chop your head off for burning a flag?
--------------------
|
4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14373428 - 04/29/11 04:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Hardly. They try to chop your head off for burning a flag?
It really annoys me how bitchy so many Americans are. They act as if our government is some inherently "evil" entity when in reality, they have provided us with some of the highest possible living standards of any country ever.
-------------------- Live your Life!
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: 4896744]
#14373474 - 04/29/11 04:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
iThink said: It really annoys me how bitchy so many Americans are
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
pouihi
Mary Jane Doe



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 2,384
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14373486 - 04/29/11 04:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Hardly. They try to chop your head off for burning a flag?
First of all, USA is one of the few "first world" countries where, in some places, the death penalty is still in use, so chopping heads or frying convicts is debatable.
They probably just chop some muslim civilian head after torturing him, just for being a muslim.
After having destroyed his country for OIL, where's the humanity in that?
--------------------
"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."
Edited by pouihi (04/29/11 04:17 PM)
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: pouihi]
#14373492 - 04/29/11 04:17 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Oh stop bitching, what are crimes against humanity when you've got such fabulous living standards?
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
pouihi
Mary Jane Doe



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 2,384
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
|
|
--------------------
"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
|
Acts of war are not necessarily crimes against humanity; your rhetoric is not moving anyone who can think critically.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
foliocb
always running



Registered: 07/14/08
Posts: 1,152
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: 4896744]
#14373522 - 04/29/11 04:24 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
iThink said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Hardly. They try to chop your head off for burning a flag?
It really annoys me how bitchy so many Americans are. They act as if our government is some inherently "evil" entity when in reality, they have provided us with some of the highest possible living standards of any country ever.
Actually, America has a pretty low living standard compared to most of the western world.... also a piss poor currency.
-------------------- ^v^
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Poid]
#14373537 - 04/29/11 04:27 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Poid said: Acts of war are not necessarily crimes against humanity; your rhetoric is not moving anyone who can think critically.
Crimes against humanity: not for the faint of heart or stomach.
  
Or perhaps do you insist that crimes against humanity be on 9/11 scale? Because we've got plenty of those going on too - like invading countries without provocation, such as the war that led to the more tangibly specific ones pictured above, in which US troops decommissioned the police and proceeded to leave the entire country in a state of militarily-enforced lawlessness for months.
Face it, the US government is no better than the Taliban - it's just better organized, better equipped, better funded, better propagandized. And people who believe in "white guilt" will bitch at me for drawing such comparisons because it provides us all with such wonderful standards of living.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Tchan909 (04/29/11 04:34 PM)
|
4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: foliocb]
#14373544 - 04/29/11 04:29 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Tchan909 said: Oh stop bitching, what are crimes against humanity when you've got such fabulous living standards? 
Have fun subverting yourself to the weakness of others throughout your life. 
Quote:
foliocb said:
Quote:
iThink said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Hardly. They try to chop your head off for burning a flag?
It really annoys me how bitchy so many Americans are. They act as if our government is some inherently "evil" entity when in reality, they have provided us with some of the highest possible living standards of any country ever.
Actually, America has a pretty low living standard compared to most of the western world.... also a piss poor currency.
Bullshit, what countries do you consider to have high living standards?
-------------------- Live your Life!
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: 4896744]
#14373548 - 04/29/11 04:29 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
iThink said:
Quote:
Tchan909 said: Oh stop bitching, what are crimes against humanity when you've got such fabulous living standards? 
Have fun subverting yourself to the weakness of others throughout your life. 
Please elaborate on what you mean by this.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
|
|
Quote:
Tchan909 said:
Quote:
iThink said:
Quote:
Tchan909 said: Oh stop bitching, what are crimes against humanity when you've got such fabulous living standards? 
Have fun subverting yourself to the weakness of others throughout your life. 
Please elaborate on what you mean by this.
Instead of focusing on your own situation, you try to find excuses to feel bad for other people. Even when your own position is advanced through a cause, if you can find a way to empathize with a party experiencing perceived negative consequences due to the cause, you will.
This means that you are blinded by some idea of objective morality, when in reality your willingness to accept this false notion of some objective reality just makes you weak.
-------------------- Live your Life!
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: 4896744]
#14373592 - 04/29/11 04:38 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
The outrage I experience by considering such inequities in our world does far more than weaken me; in fact, it is my pilot light. It fires the furnace of my passion, and the energy I take from it gives me the willpower to accomplish great things, and to work toward greater justice and equality in the world.
It gives me strength, not weakness.
If I was totally fixated on my own comfort, I would probably be addicted to heroin. But rather, my sense of justice gives context and purpose to my quest for self-improvement.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Tchan909 (04/29/11 04:47 PM)
|
4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
|
|
Quote:
Tchan909 said: The outrage I experience by considering such inequities in our world does far more than weaken me; in fact, it is my pilot light. It fires the furnace of my passion, and the energy I take from it gives me the willpower to accomplish great things, and to work toward greater justice and equality in the world.
It gives me strength, not weakness.
If I was totally fixated on my own comfort, I would probably be addicted to heroin. But rather, my sense of justice gives context and purpose to my quest for self-improvement.
So what are the great leaps and strides you have accomplished in your quest for global equality?
-------------------- Live your Life!
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: 4896744]
#14373676 - 04/29/11 04:57 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Getting my shit together, taking better care of myself, educating myself?
I'm not superman and I'm only 24.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
foliocb
always running



Registered: 07/14/08
Posts: 1,152
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: 4896744]
#14374075 - 04/29/11 06:29 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
iThink said:
Quote:
Tchan909 said: Oh stop bitching, what are crimes against humanity when you've got such fabulous living standards? 
Have fun subverting yourself to the weakness of others throughout your life. 
Quote:
foliocb said:
Quote:
iThink said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Hardly. They try to chop your head off for burning a flag?
It really annoys me how bitchy so many Americans are. They act as if our government is some inherently "evil" entity when in reality, they have provided us with some of the highest possible living standards of any country ever.
Actually, America has a pretty low living standard compared to most of the western world.... also a piss poor currency.
Bullshit, what countries do you consider to have high living standards?
In the west? Well, after living in Europe for all of last year and visiting about 13 different countries, just about every country in west/central Europe, as well as scandenavia had a much higher living standard. Much cleaner places, MUCH better public transportation then americas piss poor excuse of one, much smarter people i.e. multi-lingual, much lower poverty rates, MUCH stronger currency. After visiting Japan last year they also have a much higher living standard then we do... except for that disaster zone now.
We fucking suck compared to most of the rest of the first world. Poor education, more poor people, shitty currency, half baked idiots everywhere, fat obese consumer whores as far as the eye can see... you get the point
-------------------- ^v^
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: foliocb]
#14374183 - 04/29/11 07:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Yeah, most parts of the developed world are more pleasant to be in than the US, and the gap is growing.
I could go on a big rant about why that is, but unfortunately this really would be more appropriate in the political forum.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
|
|
Quote:
Tchan909 said: Getting my shit together, taking better care of myself, educating myself?
I'm not superman and I'm only 24. 
I wonder why this is the response I always get.
Quote:
In the west? Well, after living in Europe for all of last year and visiting about 13 different countries, just about every country in west/central Europe, as well as scandenavia had a much higher living standard. Much cleaner places, MUCH better public transportation then americas piss poor excuse of one, much smarter people i.e. multi-lingual, much lower poverty rates, MUCH stronger currency. After visiting Japan last year they also have a much higher living standard then we do... except for that disaster zone now.
We fucking suck compared to most of the rest of the first world. Poor education, more poor people, shitty currency, half baked idiots everywhere, fat obese consumer whores as far as the eye can see... you get the point
I have also been in Europe extensively, and I think that you are full of shit. The size of everything in Europe is so small, from living space to appliance size. In America the average house is much nicer in my opinion.
Also, if America is so shitty, why are we ranked as having the 4th highest living standard in the world? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index
You mention Scandinavian countries, and yes they have basically zero poverty, but everyone there doesn't live luxuriously compared to Americans. In America you have so much more access to all sorts of goods and services than anywhere else in the world.
Lastly, you mention public services. The difference with America here is that you are able to do everything privately. As a country we made the decision to use cars as our primary source of transportation, so the government invests lots of money into roads. We also go for private healthcare instead of public healthcare. This allows us to have the most advanced healthcare options in the world. Why do you think whenever someone with money gets sick they come to America for treatment?
-------------------- Live your Life!
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: 4896744]
#14377184 - 04/30/11 11:45 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
I think it's the poor people that bother me.
Even if you really do buy into the whole bullshit line that it's their own fault they're poor (which in most cases is untrue IMO), you can't tell me it's pleasant to have cities littered with junkies, crippled, and the mentally ill.
And what are you doing with your life, superman?
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
|
|
First of all, destitute people don't bother me at the levels i experience.
Also, i dont believe that it's a person's fault that they are poor, but this doesn't mean i need to subvert myself to their will.
Lastly, as to what i have done myself, i have ensured my position in the top 1 % of income earners.
-------------------- Live your Life!
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: 4896744]
#14377548 - 04/30/11 12:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Good for you.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
|
In the United States most people living in poverty do so due to their own failures. In most cases that failure is a failure to use birth control properly. In the majority of other cases that do not relate to babies the cause is substance abuse. Relatively little poverty is caused by factors that do not include one or both of the aforementioned.
--------------------
|
NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14378164 - 04/30/11 03:05 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zappaisgod said: In the United States most people living in poverty do so due to their own failures.
Or the failures of their parents. Or their parents' parents.
Quote:
In most cases that failure is a failure to use birth control properly. In the majority of other cases that do not relate to babies the cause is substance abuse. Relatively little poverty is caused by factors that do not include one or both of the aforementioned.
Source?
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: NetDiver]
#14378223 - 04/30/11 03:16 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: In the United States most people living in poverty do so due to their own failures.
Or the failures of their parents. Or their parents' parents.
Only the very young ones.Quote:
Quote:
In most cases that failure is a failure to use birth control properly. In the majority of other cases that do not relate to babies the cause is substance abuse. Relatively little poverty is caused by factors that do not include one or both of the aforementioned.
Source?
Are you shitting me?
--------------------
|
pouihi
Mary Jane Doe



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 2,384
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: 4896744]
#14378495 - 04/30/11 04:19 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
iThink said: The size of everything in Europe is so small, from living space to appliance size. In America the average house is much nicer in my opinion.
Humm I wonder where did you get the idea that in Europe everything is so small but probably we don't have the same obesity levels you have in America, so that does save a lot of space. Also this means you've visited the average house of every European country? Well if you did, you would be aware that they aren't in fact small at all.
Quote:
iThink said: As a country we made the decision to use cars as our primary source of transportation, so the government invests lots of money into roads.
Sure, so every single country in the world has to sign the kyoto protocol, while you can ride your hummers and fuck up the environment a little more.
Quote:
iThink said: We also go for private healthcare instead of public healthcare. This allows us to have the most advanced healthcare options in the world. Why do you think whenever someone with money gets sick they come to America for treatment?
WOW this couldn't be more wrong... if you're lucky your insurance company allows to have access to healthcare, this of course if you didn't have dandruff in your childhood and forgot to mention. No one in their right state of mind goes to the states for healthcare, they would much quickly go to Cuba, that yes, may be a country with many flaws in some senses but believe me they have one of the best healthcare services in the world.
--------------------
"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."
|
4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: pouihi]
#14378530 - 04/30/11 04:28 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
pouihi said:
Quote:
iThink said: The size of everything in Europe is so small, from living space to appliance size. In America the average house is much nicer in my opinion.
Humm I wonder where did you get the idea that in Europe everything is so small but probably we don't have the same obesity levels you have in America, so that does save a lot of space. Also this means you've visited the average house of every European country? Well if you did, you would be aware that they aren't in fact small at all.
Quote:
iThink said: As a country we made the decision to use cars as our primary source of transportation, so the government invests lots of money into roads.
Sure, so every single country in the world has to sign the kyoto protocol, while you can ride your hummers and fuck up the environment a little more.
Quote:
iThink said: We also go for private healthcare instead of public healthcare. This allows us to have the most advanced healthcare options in the world. Why do you think whenever someone with money gets sick they come to America for treatment?
WOW this couldn't be more wrong... if you're lucky your insurance company allows to have access to healthcare, this of course if you didn't have dandruff in your childhood and forgot to mention. No one in their right state of mind goes to the states for healthcare, they would much quickly go to Cuba, that yes, may be a country with many flaws in some senses but believe me they have one of the best healthcare services in the world.
Are Michael Moore movies your primary source for information on healthcare? It is a fact that America is the leader in healthcare technological innovations.
It also seems that you buy into other bullshit like anthropogenic global warming.
-------------------- Live your Life!
|
NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14378559 - 04/30/11 04:36 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Are you shitting me?
No. If you're going to make claims, you have to back them up. Crazy, huh?
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: NetDiver]
#14378582 - 04/30/11 04:46 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
We could start here: http://www.npc.umich.edu/poverty/
Quote:
Children represent a disproportionate share of the poor in the United States; they are 25 percent of the total population, but 35 percent of the poor population. In 2008, 15.45 million children, or 20.7 percent, were poor. The poverty rate for children also varies substantially by race and Hispanic origin, as shown in the table below[4].
I gotta go but if you can't figure out that that means children cause poverty you aren't paying attention.
--------------------
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: zappaisgod]
#14378594 - 04/30/11 04:48 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
In 2009 the poverty threshold for a single individual no children was $11,161. That's $6 an hour full employment, less than mimimum wage.
--------------------
|
pouihi
Mary Jane Doe



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 2,384
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: NetDiver]
#14378608 - 04/30/11 04:52 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Well, I actually don't need Michael Moore to know how good the Cuban healthcare system is, that they in fact have agreements with many countries providing with specific health services they wouldn't be able to get in many other places (Ex.: Chernobyl victims).
"anthropogenic global warming bullshit"? Well I don't buy bullshit from hypocrites as Al Gore for example who goes on bragging about pollution and then pollutes a shitload. But if the whole world has to make efforts, you're not more than others not to.
Also, I guess being the country that elected twice George Bush just says a lot by itself.
--------------------
"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
|
Quote:
Tchan909 said: Then NO forum is appropriate for a complete rebuttal, and we shall resign ourselves to arguing in neatly discrete circles.
I guess you know exactly what zappa's complete rebuttal would have consisted of. 
And you call yourself educated. 
Quote:
Tchan909 said: Face it, the US government is no better than the Taliban...
What do you mean by "better"?
Quote:
Tchan909 said: And people who believe in "white guilt" will bitch at me for drawing such comparisons because it provides us all with such wonderful standards of living.
, accusations of white guilt provide us with wonderful standards of living?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
foliocb
always running



Registered: 07/14/08
Posts: 1,152
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: 4896744]
#14381180 - 05/01/11 03:22 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
iThink said:
You mention Scandinavian countries, and yes they have basically zero poverty, but everyone there doesn't live luxuriously compared to Americans. In America you have so much more access to all sorts of goods and services than anywhere else in the world.
Lastly, you mention public services. The difference with America here is that you are able to do everything privately. As a country we made the decision to use cars as our primary source of transportation, so the government invests lots of money into roads. We also go for private healthcare instead of public healthcare. This allows us to have the most advanced healthcare options in the world. Why do you think whenever someone with money gets sick they come to America for treatment?
Laughable. Every norweigan famile I met each had their own home as well as a vacation home. And these were 'average' norweigan families...
Also lol'ed at 'move advanced healthcare' options... yeah maybe if you have big bucks to spend...
We're fucking dumb compared to most of the advanced world and are becoming bigger consumer whores and bigger, fatter half baked morons by the minute and can barely speak one language.
-------------------- ^v^
|
foliocb
always running



Registered: 07/14/08
Posts: 1,152
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: foliocb]
#14381189 - 05/01/11 03:28 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
"Are Michael Moore movies your primary source for information on healthcare? It is a fact that America is the leader in healthcare technological innovations.
It also seems that you buy into other bullshit like anthropogenic global warming. "
Ya know, not everyone could afford such 'prestigious' medical care unless they were in the top 1% income earners like you. I bet you're one of those dudes who thinks their happiness and purpose in life is directly proportional to the amount of money they earn each year
-------------------- ^v^
|
pouihi
Mary Jane Doe



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 2,384
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: foliocb]
#14381410 - 05/01/11 06:12 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
there's also a huge difference between technological advancement in healthcare and the ability/conditions of providing healthcare to citizens.
--------------------
"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."
|
Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: pouihi]
#14381999 - 05/01/11 10:39 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
I think there's merit to the idea that the USA's brand of strong, conservative capitalism gives it certain advantages over the rest of the world, but I also think there's merit to the idea that it won't last long if the only people who live comfortably here are the top 1% of earners. This is obviously not the case now, but the gap between rich and poor is yawning and the differences in living standards are growing.
Our most advanced health care in the world will go to peanuts if only the super-rich can afford health care at all, because people who are abused by their societies for too long have a way of getting fed-up and lashing out - unless their religions train them in passivity and calmness, which American religion DOES NOT.
Not to put myself in your shoes iThink, but IMO you have rational self-interest in helping those who are less fortunate than yourself.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
|
foliocb
always running



Registered: 07/14/08
Posts: 1,152
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
|
|
Well of course he does... he's another victim of culture. In this case, consumer capitalism 5.0 is the program he's running and he will spend his entire life finding happiness by kicking other peoples teeth in and digging the earth beneath his feat while at the same time poisoning the air he breathes. Clearly intelligent behavior
-------------------- ^v^
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
|
Quote:
Tchan909 said: I think there's merit to the idea that the USA's brand of strong, conservative capitalism gives it certain advantages over the rest of the world, but I also think there's merit to the idea that it won't last long if the only people who live comfortably here are the top 1% of earners. This is obviously not the case now, but the gap between rich and poor is yawning and the differences in living standards are growing.
Our most advanced health care in the world will go to peanuts if only the super-rich can afford health care at all, because people who are abused by their societies for too long have a way of getting fed-up and lashing out - unless their religions train them in passivity and calmness, which American religion DOES NOT.
What is "American religion"? 
Talk about educated generalizations.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
|
g00ru
lit pants tit licker


Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: Poid] 1
#14411721 - 05/06/11 06:21 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
evangelical baptists, duh
all you do is question shit about people's posts that they assumed was self evident. you're seriously a fiend man, just this internet being of pure incarnated annoyance
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
|
Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: g00ru]
#14413619 - 05/07/11 02:31 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
guruu said: evangelical baptists, duh
Oh, I was under the apparently false impression that other religions were significantly prevalent in the US, silly me. 
Quote:
guruu said: all you do is question shit about people's posts that they assumed was self evident.
Nah, I do much more than that (not that doing that is in any way a bad thing)--all you do is posit inane/insane bullshit and refuse to respond to people's critiques of the said bullshit.
Quote:
guruu said: you're seriously a fiend man, just this internet being of pure incarnated annoyance
Wow, you think what I do here in this debate forum (debate) is more annoying than what you do in this debate forum (nonsensical conjecture)? I swear, something is strange about this, to say the very least.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
Edited by Poid (05/07/11 09:41 AM)
|
4896744
Small Town Girl


Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
|
Re: Why Not Do A Little Religion? [Re: foliocb]
#14414291 - 05/07/11 08:58 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
foliocb said: Well of course he does... he's another victim of culture. In this case, consumer capitalism 5.0 is the program he's running and he will spend his entire life finding happiness by kicking other peoples teeth in and digging the earth beneath his feat while at the same time poisoning the air he breathes. Clearly intelligent behavior 
So are you telling me I am failing at achieving happiness? Is my preferring of extreme luxury and lacking of fiscal worry an obsolete way of obtaining happiness? I think I would be a better judge of that than you, and I love this lifestyle.
So if I love this lifestyle, then how is it "wrong"? "Wrong" is a completely subjective concept. For my self, the way I live is completely "right" because it allows me to realize my goals, which in turn make me happy.
-------------------- Live your Life!
|
|