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Offlinejuanjoasdf
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Registered: 04/25/11
Posts: 13
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Spiritual steroids - I love Mushrroms
    #14347601 - 04/25/11 05:59 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

OK this is a lot but I want to open the discussion of the use of psychedelics as part of self-development and spiritual growth. My background this year has been taking mushrooms and doing meditation, big mind, journaling regularly and taking mushrooms once a month and going through these practices.

People who take steroids train on a regular basis, go on "the juice" to to make a big jump, and continue to train to maintain and agument the results. psychedelcs should be used that way too.

The mushrooms I have been taking in small amounts and complimenting them with cannabis/tabaco and maca... mainly. Basically my experiences where a combination of a big mind session, some meditation, lying down with some ear plugs and a mind fold... and when the main effect wears of, I start journaling or take a walk with my recorder. The next day I gather what I wrote down or recorded and integrate it into my path.

This has been a very powerful experience that has forever transformed my meditation practice. I tripped on saturday and this morning the mushrooms whith me in my meditation, taking me deeper, allowing me to disidentify from distractions, de-attach from them, become the observer of the observer time and time again, navigating the experience effortlessly. My mind would go on being lazy and whanting to end the meditation, and I realized that thought too was a distraction and it driffted away.

The conversation I would like to see more and more is how we mushrooms can be used for self development and the spiritual path and not just for tripping.

I love mushrooms, they are very easy to grow, you can actively think on low dosages and navigate your experience, they're relatively safe if you know what you're doing.

All the tripping I am doing lately is on my own and with the assitance of cannabis to make the experience super enjoyable. When the trip gets to hard that I cant do active practice, I tuck myself into bed with some earplugs and mindfold on to cant see or hear anything and just surrender to the experience. The journey is comletely an inner one. It's like doing savasana in yoga, the dead mans pose, lying down and surrendering your body to gravity as if where dead, allowing anysensation to happen, to be the whitness of what is arrising. In big mind terms it's "dropped off body and mind". Surrender. With a little practice you get better and better at it, and on mushrooms you can take the practice to whole different level.

I am currently not using more than 1/4 of a dosage to go on these trips. I've done them seven times or so in 2011, they are like mini vacations for the mind. I come back to reality completely refreshed.

For anyone that is starting of on the spiritual journey I highly recomend you get the Big Mind DVD's, voulmes 1-2, do each volume a coulpe of times before you advance, and repeat. Volume 3 is excelent too but I would wait until you have gone trough DVD's 1-2 a few time. They are available on the net and on http://bigmind.org/

And my other big recomendation for the spiritual seeker, no matter what path you end up choosing is the ILP starter kit. The integral life practice starter kit. The kit actually includes a 1 hour big mind session so you can get a glimpse of big mind. http://integrallife.com/integrallifepractice

And for a super introduction into integral theroy, the audio book "Kosmic Consciousness" is amazing, and so is the new "Essential Integral" course, both available for download.

Well that was a lot of blabbering... I tried not to edit much. Questions? Suggestions? Comments?


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InvisibleDawks
Jolly African Potato


Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 4,935
Re: Spiritual steroids - I love Mushrroms [Re: juanjoasdf]
    #14347630 - 04/25/11 06:17 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

juanjoasdf said:
For anyone that is starting of on the spiritual journey I highly recomend you get the Big Mind DVD's, voulmes 1-2, do each volume a coulpe of times before you advance, and repeat. Volume 3 is excelent too but I would wait until you have gone trough DVD's 1-2 a few time. They are available on the net and on http://bigmind.org/

And my other big recomendation for the spiritual seeker, no matter what path you end up choosing is the ILP starter kit. The integral life practice starter kit. The kit actually includes a 1 hour big mind session so you can get a glimpse of big mind. http://integrallife.com/integrallifepractice







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Offlinejuanjoasdf
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Registered: 04/25/11
Posts: 13
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Spiritual steroids - I love Mushrroms [Re: Dawks]
    #14347769 - 04/25/11 07:17 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Why do you always have to be such a duche Cartman?

I actually laughed good at that expresssion!

I was aluding to Big Mind hopping there where familiar perhaps.


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Offlinesunset_mission
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Re: Spiritual steroids - I love Mushrroms [Re: juanjoasdf]
    #14347810 - 04/25/11 07:36 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

You just reminded me what I need to do with my remaining mushies. Thank you, and good luck with your spiritual endeavors.

Namaste :ghandi:


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OfflineNunbuh_Chrubble
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Re: Spiritual steroids - I love Mushrroms [Re: sunset_mission]
    #14348926 - 04/25/11 12:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I would caution against buying too much into new-age/self-help spiritualism. The people who really have the truth will tell it to you for free, and most of that stuff is just new linguistic constructions that get our mind wrapped up in even more bullshit while believing just the opposite is happening. I mean, any spiritual practice that has to use better sex and work as it's selling point should be suspect.

The meditation technique that I employ is Satipatthana (or "Mindfullness of Breath"). It is strictly the practice of observing your breath. Nothing metaphysical about it, it is designed to bring you into straight confrontation with reality. Just observe.

Sounds like you have a lot of good motivations and energy. Keep it up!

And just out of curiosity, what is your "path" looking like? I mean, what do you believe, how does your practice affect your daily life, etc?


--------------------


"This day is a lover..."

~Rumi


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Invisiblejoemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
Re: Spiritual steroids - I love Mushrroms [Re: Nunbuh_Chrubble]
    #14349493 - 04/25/11 02:54 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Nunbuh_Chrubble said:
I would caution against buying too much into new-age/self-help spiritualism. The people who really have the truth will tell it to you for free, and most of that stuff is just new linguistic constructions that get our mind wrapped up in even more bullshit while believing just the opposite is happening.




True words.  I'll take it a step further and say that no one knows the truth, even if they are offering it for free.  The OP's quest for self-knowledge by using psychedelics in conjunction with those retarded DVDs he is shilling will probably lead him to be even more confused than he was when he started.

He said "with a little practice you get better at it."  Oh God, yeah with a little practice you'll get drawn deeper into your delusions by inching closer and closer to the answers ye seek.  But somehow they're always out reach, right?  They'll always be out of reach.  Seek pleasure, avoid pain, that's all you'll ever do in life, even if you confuse the two or postpone one in order to experience the other.  That's all of our destinies.  And that's the Truth with a capital T.  Don't believe me?  Good, you're learning.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.


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InvisiblePsilosomniac
Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 2,938
Re: Spiritual steroids - I love Mushrroms [Re: joemolloy]
    #14349522 - 04/25/11 03:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

joemolloy said:
Quote:

Nunbuh_Chrubble said:
I would caution against buying too much into new-age/self-help spiritualism. The people who really have the truth will tell it to you for free, and most of that stuff is just new linguistic constructions that get our mind wrapped up in even more bullshit while believing just the opposite is happening.




True words.  I'll take it a step further and say that no one knows the truth, even if they are offering it for free.  The OP's quest for self-knowledge by using psychedelics in conjunction with those retarded DVDs he is shilling will probably lead him to be even more confused than he was when he started.

He said "with a little practice you get better at it."  Oh God, yeah with a little practice you'll get drawn deeper into your delusions by inching closer and closer to the answers ye seek.  But somehow they're always out reach, right?  They'll always be out of reach.  Seek pleasure, avoid pain, that's all you'll ever do in life, even if you confuse the two or postpone one in order to experience the other.  That's all of our destinies.  And that's the Truth with a capital T.  Don't believe me?  Good, you're learning.




I definitely agree with that concept of thinking for yourself and not trying to buy enlightenment, so to speak.  I really don't think you can just know "the answer" by taking drugs.  "The answer" is relative and debatably existent anyways.  Not to blindly agree with everything you say, don't get me wrong, but I definitely appreciate having somebody on the Shroomery that doesn't believe in the instant enlightenment stuff.

I'm really glad you've been unbanned, man.  I was really disappointed when I heard you were.


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Invisiblejoemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
Re: Spiritual steroids - I love Mushrroms [Re: Psilosomniac]
    #14349529 - 04/25/11 03:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:


I'm really glad you've been unbanned, man.  I was really disappointed when I heard you were.




Thanks.  I'm trying to be more civil and polite but its hard because I wasn't raised that way.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.


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Offlinejuanjoasdf
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Registered: 04/25/11
Posts: 13
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Spiritual steroids - I love Mushrroms [Re: joemolloy]
    #14349562 - 04/25/11 03:04 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

And just out of curiosity, what is your "path" looking like? I mean, what do you believe, how does your practice affect your daily life, etc?

The path has just begun. I am concentrating on integral theory and buddhism. I go on meditaiton retreats once a year, I have a master for crisis and doubts on meditation. I am committing myself to slowly but diligently grow, there is no hurry. No short term fixes. It's all about stages not states.

I cant atribute all my progress to the spiritual path, it has been life saving though. I had a lot of work to do on my success driven mind. I had to deprogram a lot of bullshit. Transitioning from when I have X I'll be happy to how can I get what I want by helping other people get what they want, or something like that. This is the deeper level of work, the ground or being or presence is where everything else arises from.

There are dangers in the spiritual path of course aka spiritual materialism or using it as an escape.

I too practice mindfulness of breath, that is the core of the meditative practice, its the anchor point of awareness, the object of meditation, what we go back to. Big Mind is just really nice as to deepen the meditation. There was a before and after for me.

Spiritual practice becomes very enticing with psychedelics, there are big jumps to be made. Not saying they're completely necesary, because they arent. But for this fast result orientated society, they give a kick in the but that will get people on the meditaiton cushion when properly guided. The dangers are there and should be discussed. I'm thinink of buying the book "Zig Zag Zen", which I found discusses the use of psychedelics and the Buddhist path. In buddhism there is a lot of controversy in regards to psychedelics, its very hard for anyone to give you any guidance at all, or even aprove of your experimentation with them, very taboo.

Mushrooms and meditation anyone??? Anyone out there know of any resources about buddhism and psychedelics. This is something that is never adressed as it should, and its a shame. I can only talk openly about psychedelics with experience chasers, people that are commited


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Offlinejuanjoasdf
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Registered: 04/25/11
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Re: Spiritual steroids - I love Mushrroms [Re: Psilosomniac]
    #14349650 - 04/25/11 03:22 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I feel misread a bit, I can feel where you guys are coming from but, it's still past my point. Has anyone ever done any work with these "retarded dvd's", what's your experience?

May I relieve you's from the angst of thinking I've found the truth and that I am dilusional.

It is a given that I consider that the path set by traditions like the one I'm going into is perfectly worthy, my choice.

I bet there are a lot of us on this thread that have fallen for self-help/new-age bs and feel hurt by it (or see others fall). I am detoxing from the self-help and success literature myself.


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Invisiblejoemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
Re: Spiritual steroids - I love Mushrroms [Re: juanjoasdf]
    #14350625 - 04/25/11 06:12 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Juanjoasdf, it sounds you're sitting around deep in thought trying to figure stuff out and make your life a bit happier, right?  We all do that and sometimes use psychedelics, religious ideas, philosophy, and all sorts of other "tools" to assist us.  I guess that you have to find the right tools, but unfortunately there are hucksters, thieves, liars, and fools all offering their wares.  My best advice to you is not put too much faith in anything other than your own inner strength and ability to persevere.  It's hard to change, brother, and I hope you find your peace.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.


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Offlinesunset_mission
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Posts: 5,767
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Re: Spiritual steroids - I love Mushrroms [Re: joemolloy]
    #14350637 - 04/25/11 06:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I'm going to just leave this right here...

www.lawofone.info

:stoner:


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OfflineLed Zeppelin
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Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 3,962
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
Re: Spiritual steroids - I love Mushrroms [Re: joemolloy]
    #14350932 - 04/25/11 07:04 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

joemolloy said:
Juanjoasdf, it sounds you're sitting around deep in thought trying to figure stuff out and make your life a bit happier, right?  We all do that and sometimes use psychedelics, religious ideas, philosophy, and all sorts of other "tools" to assist us.  I guess that you have to find the right tools, but unfortunately there are hucksters, thieves, liars, and fools all offering their wares.  My best advice to you is not put too much faith in anything other than your own inner strength and ability to persevere.  It's hard to change, brother, and I hope you find your peace.




joe i gots a question for ya

do you honestly believe theres not a thing that can be learned about yourself, life, and the world from psychedelics? especially psychs like ayahuasca and ibogaine?


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Invisiblejoemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
Re: Spiritual steroids - I love Mushrroms [Re: Led Zeppelin]
    #14350972 - 04/25/11 07:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Led Zeppelin said:
Quote:

joemolloy said:
Juanjoasdf, it sounds you're sitting around deep in thought trying to figure stuff out and make your life a bit happier, right?  We all do that and sometimes use psychedelics, religious ideas, philosophy, and all sorts of other "tools" to assist us.  I guess that you have to find the right tools, but unfortunately there are hucksters, thieves, liars, and fools all offering their wares.  My best advice to you is not put too much faith in anything other than your own inner strength and ability to persevere.  It's hard to change, brother, and I hope you find your peace.




joe i gots a question for ya

do you honestly believe theres not a thing that can be learned about yourself, life, and the world from psychedelics? especially psychs like ayahuasca and ibogaine?





I don't know, man, but I didn't learn shit.  I just got stupid.  Real stupid.  I thought I was enlightened, I really believed that I was changing my life for the better and improving myself as a person and a thinker.  I think I was addicted or obsessed with these drugs and rationalizing it through these stories I'd tell myself.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.


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OfflineLed Zeppelin
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Registered: 05/17/10
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Re: Spiritual steroids - I love Mushrroms [Re: joemolloy]
    #14351595 - 04/25/11 08:47 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

joemolloy said:
Quote:

Led Zeppelin said:
Quote:

joemolloy said:
Juanjoasdf, it sounds you're sitting around deep in thought trying to figure stuff out and make your life a bit happier, right?  We all do that and sometimes use psychedelics, religious ideas, philosophy, and all sorts of other "tools" to assist us.  I guess that you have to find the right tools, but unfortunately there are hucksters, thieves, liars, and fools all offering their wares.  My best advice to you is not put too much faith in anything other than your own inner strength and ability to persevere.  It's hard to change, brother, and I hope you find your peace.




joe i gots a question for ya

do you honestly believe theres not a thing that can be learned about yourself, life, and the world from psychedelics? especially psychs like ayahuasca and ibogaine?





I don't know, man, but I didn't learn shit.  I just got stupid.  Real stupid.  I thought I was enlightened, I really believed that I was changing my life for the better and improving myself as a person and a thinker.  I think I was addicted or obsessed with these drugs and rationalizing it through these stories I'd tell myself.




how often were you tripping?


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Offlinejuanjoasdf
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Registered: 04/25/11
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Re: Spiritual steroids - I love Mushrroms [Re: joemolloy]
    #14351633 - 04/25/11 08:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I feel ya joemolly, its a danger to loose our compass and let the search take over. I do feel you noticed in my tone that underlying there is a wanting to be saved by my practices. I have to actively work on keeping my practice a practice.

Up until now I have only tinkered with mushrooms and weed, and it was the warning of a friend of mine taht got me really thinking twice about going for ayahuasca and harder hitting experiences. One has to have his feet on the ground and feel complete in order to fully benefit from things like deep insight psychedelics.

I have my theories about the practices I follow. They are practices that train the spirit/mind to keep it fresh and alive, rather than theories or promises of salvation.

I know that there is a part of me that is falling into the trap and not wanting to believe in myself and just be enough with who I am. I see a lot of value in your response. I wanted to share my tripping experiences and the spiritual path with fellow mushroom heads. Everybody trips I was wondering if they were using it as part of a path.

My path is a very uncomplicated one, rather a framework and a set of beliefs to navigate things from. I really enjoy integral theroy. Buddhist teachings seem like common sense teachings, stories... it still is limited by the ism part of it though. These are just names and I broadly refering to something that cannot be named. We agree that we know what we're talking about, but in reality it cannot be described because the moment we do we are using concepts.

Im curious, what rabit holes did you go through? What is your cautionary tale?


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OfflineNunbuh_Chrubble
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Re: Spiritual steroids - I love Mushrroms [Re: joemolloy] * 1
    #14352408 - 04/25/11 10:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

joemolloy said:
I don't know, man, but I didn't learn shit.  I just got stupid.  Real stupid.  I thought I was enlightened, I really believed that I was changing my life for the better and improving myself as a person and a thinker.  I think I was addicted or obsessed with these drugs and rationalizing it through these stories I'd tell myself.




I really do get where you're coming from.

But I HAVE learned from the psychedelic experience, and I feel that I am a better person because of those experiences and also the way that I dealt with them.

Of course all the theories about the "true nature of reality" and alien contact and whatnot are either useless, totally bullshit, or both. But the trick is to not get wrapped up in the myth but rather get wrapped up in the result. It's like Terence McKenna said, we shouldn't be asking what the UFO is but rather, what is it doing.

My most useful realizations are mostly (inter)personal ones. Realizations about how I relate to myself and others, about how I construct and project my self image, and about what I really want out of my life.

And my most profound realizations about the "true nature of reality" have finally rested on the fact that there is no secret, no purpose to life, and that the world is exactly what we make of it. That we should spend life experiencing, being compassionate, and avoiding falling into ignorance and delusion.

We have to be practical. And that goes for any philosophy, spirituality, and everything else. What is practical? What is really making our own lives, and the lives of other people better?


--------------------


"This day is a lover..."

~Rumi


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InvisiblePsilosomniac
Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 2,938
Re: Spiritual steroids - I love Mushrroms [Re: Nunbuh_Chrubble]
    #14352825 - 04/25/11 11:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Nunbuh_Chrubble said:
Quote:

joemolloy said:
I don't know, man, but I didn't learn shit.  I just got stupid.  Real stupid.  I thought I was enlightened, I really believed that I was changing my life for the better and improving myself as a person and a thinker.  I think I was addicted or obsessed with these drugs and rationalizing it through these stories I'd tell myself.




I really do get where you're coming from.

But I HAVE learned from the psychedelic experience, and I feel that I am a better person because of those experiences and also the way that I dealt with them.

Of course all the theories about the "true nature of reality" and alien contact and whatnot are either useless, totally bullshit, or both. But the trick is to not get wrapped up in the myth but rather get wrapped up in the result. It's like Terence McKenna said, we shouldn't be asking what the UFO is but rather, what is it doing.

My most useful realizations are mostly (inter)personal ones. Realizations about how I relate to myself and others, about how I construct and project my self image, and about what I really want out of my life.

And my most profound realizations about the "true nature of reality" have finally rested on the fact that there is no secret, no purpose to life, and that the world is exactly what we make of it. That we should spend life experiencing, being compassionate, and avoiding falling into ignorance and delusion.

We have to be practical. And that goes for any philosophy, spirituality, and everything else. What is practical? What is really making our own lives, and the lives of other people better?



:thumbup:
I don't think it's to say that we cannot benefit from the Psychedelic Experience so much as the experience itself is not some supreme truth.  The best way I explain it is that everything you experience is coming from your own mind.  They aren't really "magic" mushrooms.  I think there are plenty of ways you can benefit from it because it is a deeper connection between the conscious and unconscious parts of our minds.  The only external thing is what we get from our five senses, which we can obviously get while sober.  In other words, there isn't really anything to be learned that cannot be learned while sober.  I think it's just a sort of shortcut, but even that is a poor way of putting it. :shrug:

tl;dr, I believe there is something to be gained, but nothing that could not be gained without the use of psychedelic drugs. :2cents:


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OfflineJoolz
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Re: Spiritual steroids - I love Mushrroms [Re: Psilosomniac]
    #14353204 - 04/26/11 01:48 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Truth is subjective. Enlightenment is merely gaining knowledge and wisdom via life experience. Think for yourself, don't hate or fear the unknown or misunderstood, enjoy this life. Be optimistic and make your own happiness and share the love with the rest of us.

We just have to convert the people who want to hurt others. I can't understand what makes a man hate another man. I can dislike or disagree, but that just makes me choose to separate myself from them. Then, I've solved all of my problems.


--------------------
Prohibition didn't work for God; Eve ate the fruit.


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Invisiblejoemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
Re: Spiritual steroids - I love Mushrroms [Re: Led Zeppelin]
    #14353931 - 04/26/11 07:43 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:



how often were you tripping?




I did ayahuasca every Saturday for two years.  I'm not sure that the frequency of the trips had anything to do with my views on them.  If I tripped less, it would taken me even longer to reach my final conclusions about the uselessness of these drugs.  I just would have stretched out my time in the superstitious prison where I locked myself up.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.


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