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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Focusing on "I AM"... [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14342717 - 04/24/11 09:24 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zoomfan said:
Quote:

guruu said:
yeah, focusing on i am and watching mooji videos is so powerful....almost terrifyingly real at times haha.  It's amazing how just receiving the presence of  a being who resides totallly in his heart, even over youtube, can produce such  change in your life.




the problem with spritual teachers including so called non teachers like mooji is that it seems like hes got something you dont and the idea of self perpetuates. mooji doesnt isolate the problem very well, he just speaks from an understanding he came to know without knowing how he got there.

THE IDEA OF A SELF IS THE PROBLEM focusng on the i am perpetuates the idea of a self. I...am . two things there, there is a me... who is being. in reality there is only being, or existence not a me who is existing, that would imply something different than existence itself which has to encompass everything anything that doesnt exist ...doesnt exist. hard to follow but deadly crucial. so with words the simplest you can get is everything is existence, no thing is separate from existence. but do dont attach the I and say i am existence or I am.




The reason it's called the heart is because "I" is the seat of both the ego and the formless cosmic consciousness.  It's known as 'manas' in buddhist philosophy, and is like a single point that can go either way.  But it gives you something of an object to focus on, one that can still take you into the totally unmanifest when you see that even this "I" is just a thought.

Your analysis of mooji is totally off, sorry.  He's not saying he has something you don't.  He's trying to draw your attention to what you have always had.  From his perspective he can completely see how we are all being, but some being just doesn't seem to realize it.
Quote:

Grapefruit said:
:thumbup:

The problem with teachers such as Ramana Maharishi and co. is that they are saying the self is "out there" or "something else". The enlightenment game is basically a series of failures IMO.

"You can run from yourself for a long time but not forever, it will hit you and you will be surprised, that's why it's called a sewerprise." - Karl Renz

"Enlightenment is the great and final disappointment, the dissolution of all our egoic fantasies and grand hopes." - Trungpa Rinpoche

http://tinyurl.com/3z3zxgo




Uh, what? Ramana Maharishi is saying nothing of the sort.  He says the "I" thought arises in the heart, which is to say that the self is totally here and now, it's not "out there" its the foundation of reality.  It's here right now, and at the same time, it's nowhere because you can't point to it, it has no location in time and space because it's not an object.  Just because I can talk about it doesn't mean it's an object, what we're dealing with in this case is the paradox of our individuated experience.

That Rinpoche quote is mad depressing and I reject it outright.  Finding the self will help you to realize your dreams, in fact it's really the only way that's gonna be possible.  I feel like that German dude is saying much the same thing as Maharishi, except instead of abiding as the self all the time like Ramana, he's pulling some crap where, upon not finding an object that could be called the self, he assumes he's 'got it' and goes on to drink lotsa beer like a dumb head.

I feel as though so many people add some skewed perspective to this stuff when it's all very simple and kosher.  Focus on "I am" it really will make you happy! The nature of our self is bliss.  That's what the hindus mean when they say we have a "body of bliss."  At a certain point, we are just meant to be happy, and it is only through attachment to objects that we fuck with this.


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Focusing on "I AM"... [Re: g00ru]
    #14342792 - 04/24/11 09:54 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't see anything depressing about that quote sounds like your own projection to me "egoic fantasies". "I thought arises in the heart" "the art of seeing" "the art of knowing" all these fancy things are just that IMO fancy crap words designed to con people and lead them on some mystical merry go round while the guru feels high and mighty with all his followers.

They make it seem like they are in some sort of higher god realized state and it only eggs on the ego's delusions. A true teacher of non-duality is someone who attacks your assumptions about what they are saying and gets you to think for yourself IMO.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Focusing on "I AM"... [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14342840 - 04/24/11 10:10 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't like anything that implies that self realization is in any way a limitation.  Those aren't fancy crap words and I'm honestly disappointed that you would take that same boring, honestly American perspective about shit.  It's not all about conning it's not a power game like every fuckin power obsessed American (or western civilization person) thinks.

What do you mean, "seem" like you're in a god realized state.  Unless you're a moron, you will know whether or not you're having a mystical experience.  Sort of like LSD, if that shit hasn't hit and was bunk you'd have to be a fool to convince yourself that you're actually tripping.  It's just that obvious.  You're taking that same perspective that all people who haven't had a crazy spiritual experience take; that this shit is all pretend and made up.  There's a reason I'm not afraid to discuss my experiences and open them up to interpretation; IT'S CAUSE THEY FUCKIN HAPPENED!!! :kingtard:  And the number one way to assure that you never have an experience of cosmic consciousness is to assume that such experiences don't exist out of your own conceit.


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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: Focusing on "I AM"... [Re: g00ru]
    #14342878 - 04/24/11 10:21 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

How is a mystical experience different from a normal one? What do you mean when you say it's "mystical"? That's one thing about your spiel that I'm trying to understand.

Because I've taken lots of drugs and experienced oneness with everything too, I just choose to interpret it differently, in a way that's at least not self-contradictory.


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Focusing on "I AM"... [Re: g00ru]
    #14342911 - 04/24/11 10:33 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Where did I say these experiences don't exist? I've had plenty sober myself but I don't assume it has anything to do with anybody else unlike you seem to.

The problem here is the guru is saying, my state is like this, everyone should try to attain this state but what if the other person is nothing like the guru? What if for them happiness lies elsewhere? Why should they try to compare their experiences with this gurus? Much better to think for yourself (not to say don't listen to what anyone says) and find out your truth than try and find out what theirs is. Gurus like ramana are literally telling everyone what to think. Mooji straight out cuts across people and tells them what they are and what they should do and it just gets lapped up.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Focusing on "I AM"... [Re: NetDiver]
    #14343568 - 04/24/11 01:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

yeah it's cause he KNOWS what you are because we're all the same thing, just being, soul, consciousness, and that's a FACT that he's realized and that's why he's fuckin enlightened and you should listen to him, that's what a guru does they tell you the knowledge and it's up to you to be ready for it or not.

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
How is a mystical experience different from a normal one? What do you mean when you say it's "mystical"? That's one thing about your spiel that I'm trying to understand.

Because I've taken lots of drugs and experienced oneness with everything too, I just choose to interpret it differently, in a way that's at least not self-contradictory.




It's mystical because it's entirely trans-rational.  When you take a drug you do have a mystical experience but because there was a material agent involved, once you come down from it you can indeed interpret it however you want, which doesn't have to be mystical if that's not your bag. 

But if you focus on the self, or have an experience in meditation, there's no way around what just happened to you because you brought it on yourself. EVEN STILL though it's unexplainable just in egoic terms, something of a very religious and cosmic nature just happened and it's fucking mystical as shit. There is an element of cosmic grace involved that cannot be ignored.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Focusing on "I AM"... [Re: g00ru]
    #14343589 - 04/24/11 01:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
yeah it's cause he KNOWS what you are because we're all the same thing, just being, soul, consciousness, and that's a FACT


No, it's a DELUSION.


Quote:

guruu said:
...that he's realized and that's why he's fuckin enlightened and you should listen to him, that's what a guru does they tell you the knowledge and it's up to you to be ready for it or not.


What precisely do you mean by "realized"?


Quote:

guruu said:
Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
How is a mystical experience different from a normal one? What do you mean when you say it's "mystical"? That's one thing about your spiel that I'm trying to understand.

Because I've taken lots of drugs and experienced oneness with everything too, I just choose to interpret it differently, in a way that's at least not self-contradictory.




It's mystical because it's entirely trans-rational.  When you take a drug you do have a mystical experience but because there was a material agent involved, once you come down from it you can indeed interpret it however you want, which doesn't have to be mystical if that's not your bag. 

But if you focus on the self, or have an experience in meditation, there's no way around what just happened to you because you brought it on yourself. EVEN STILL though it's unexplainable just in egoic terms, something of a very religious and cosmic nature just happened and it's fucking mystical as shit. There is an element of cosmic grace involved that cannot be ignored.


Hallucinations, LOL.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Focusing on "I AM"... [Re: g00ru]
    #14343596 - 04/24/11 01:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

"it's cause he KNOWS"
"that's a FACT that he's realized and that's why he's fuckin enlightened and you should listen to him that's what a guru does they tell you the knowledge and it's up to you to be ready for it or not."

Nice one telling me what I should and shouldn't do and what I should and shouldn't believe.
:sheepie:


--------------------
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Re: Focusing on "I AM"... [Re: g00ru]
    #14343609 - 04/24/11 01:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
:sheepie:




--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Focusing on "I AM"... [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14343739 - 04/24/11 02:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
"it's cause he KNOWS"
"that's a FACT that he's realized and that's why he's fuckin enlightened and you should listen to him that's what a guru does they tell you the knowledge and it's up to you to be ready for it or not."

Nice one telling me what I should and shouldn't do and what I should and shouldn't believe.
:sheepie:




humility is a scary thing for some people


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Re: Focusing on "I AM"... [Re: g00ru]
    #14343776 - 04/24/11 02:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

And sheepishness is an easy thing for most.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Focusing on "I AM"... [Re: g00ru]
    #14343983 - 04/24/11 03:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
Quote:

Grapefruit said:
"it's cause he KNOWS"
"that's a FACT that he's realized and that's why he's fuckin enlightened and you should listen to him that's what a guru does they tell you the knowledge and it's up to you to be ready for it or not."

Nice one telling me what I should and shouldn't do and what I should and shouldn't believe.
:sheepie:




humility is a scary thing for some people




As evidenced by your incredibly ironic and totally not humble post where you tell me what to do and then try to slight my integrity to back your own fear based belief system. :thumbdown:


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Focusing on "I AM"... [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14344316 - 04/24/11 04:48 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, I'm definitely not feeling humble when I argue on the internet, ya got me there. But my belief system is not fear based.  A few years ago when I was crippled with anxiety, that was when my beliefs were fear based.  Now I do whatever the fuck I want most of the time and I have mooji to thank in large part. Seeing the self clearly frees something up and allows your life expression to unfold much more effortlessly.  Seriously, it is spooky how shit will come about...all because your energy is much more centered, desires will manifest naturally for you.

So, this stuff is all about seeing the transient nature of the ego, and focusing on that which is always there, but at the same time it's about realizing your egoic desires.  However, there are certain egoic desires which are deep and noble and others which are fleeting and are only distracting you.  Like arguing on the internet :lol:

But I do understand I come off as a hypocrite a lot, but really it's just that the nature of any conversation about the self is paradoxical because you're literally talking about the foundation of reality, including your own ego.

Hmmm, I wonder which part of this post poid will quote....i have a guess


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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: Focusing on "I AM"... [Re: g00ru]
    #14344329 - 04/24/11 04:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I spent a long time typing out my criticism of dualism in the other thread where you asked me to, and you didn't even respond. :sad:

But I think it has quite a bit of bearing on this debate.


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Re: Focusing on "I AM"... [Re: NetDiver]
    #14344342 - 04/24/11 04:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

sorry! i'm gonna respond right now :cool:


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Re: Focusing on "I AM"... [Re: g00ru]
    #14344361 - 04/24/11 04:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I don't mind debate even when it gets a little heated and I'm not averse to someone having an entirely different opinion to me but I don't appreciate when people tell me what I should and shouldn't do in such a blunt manner.

If I told you that you should follow along with my own opinion on things and then said to you that the reason you didn't want to was because you weren't humble enough to what would you think of me?


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Focusing on "I AM"... [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14344404 - 04/24/11 05:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Okay sorry i totally see how that comes off as condescending in a very fundamental way and believe me i don't purport to know what you should do with your life.  But this stuff being discussed in the thread is like the ONE THING that everybody can and should do....it's the master key, seriously. Everybody has being, everybody should focus on that being as often as possible.  Not everybody has to do that the same way as me BUT i came to that knowledge in a very systematic fashion so I have the ability to describe exactly how anybody can obtain it, unlike some people who are sort of just born self realized or figure it out through being really good at something.


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Re: Focusing on "I AM"... [Re: g00ru]
    #14344510 - 04/24/11 05:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I actually totally agree that it's a good thing to find out who you really are and that it leads to a new state of being it's only the mean that differs from my perspective, in that I think abstractions are useless descriptors for it. Check out this UG talk on J Krishnamurti.



--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
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Re: Focusing on "I AM"... [Re: Grapefruit]
    #14350276 - 04/25/11 05:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'm not really quite sure what to say here, there's a lot going on.

I think it's important to realize that there is no one set path or way.

I think some folk here are confused and are repeating powerful quotes that they've heard elsewhere at inappropriate times.

I also get the feeling that some of you feel helpless or insignificant or pointless.  The truth doesn't shine through the words you write.

Beingness is something to rejoice every moment about (strictly speaking equanimity would be preferable but I'm just juxtaposing the apparent negativity that's attached to the concept here in this thread); it's not something to sit and cast you eyes down about  as if it's insignificant or as if your bubble has been burst.  If you feel that way you haven't experienced what I believe it is you're looking for.


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