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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run
    #14339851 - 04/23/11 06:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

with religious bullshit?  There is already another forum for that.  And no, religion is not philosophy.


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InvisibleKid_Orgo
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14339867 - 04/23/11 06:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

You mind giving some examples?

(I'm not challenging your assertion, merely wondering what you consider religious bullshit)


--------------------
He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.


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InvisibleBlondell_Letrange
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14339870 - 04/23/11 06:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I thought it has always been like this?

IMO there are roughly 3 main groups of posters here:

  • Skeptics
  • Apologists
  • Believers


Groups may mingle over varying matters.


--------------------
:inlove3::inlove3:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: Blondell_Letrange]
    #14339878 - 04/23/11 06:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Groups may mingle over varying matters.




Sounds kinky. :naughty:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: Kid_Orgo]
    #14339901 - 04/23/11 06:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Kid_Orgo said:
merely wondering what you consider religious bullshit




How about everything religious?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleSlashOZ
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14339919 - 04/23/11 06:23 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
with religious bullshit?  There is already another forum for that.  And no, religion is not philosophy.





QFT


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14339948 - 04/23/11 06:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

Kid_Orgo said:
merely wondering what you consider religious bullshit




How about everything religious?


Exactly what I was thinking. :lol:


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
with religious bullshit?  There is already another forum for that.  And no, religion is not philosophy.


Posters in the other forum talk about religion in a positive light, whereas posters here generally do not.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlinezoomfan
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: Poid]
    #14340063 - 04/23/11 07:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

i believe in keeping the two separate as well myself, in fact, i dont find any use in religion at all, but for people who have those beliefs im guessing theres no way to separate the two being as philosophy deals with deep fundemental questions and religion attempts to steer you away from deep fundemental questions by giving you hollow superficial answers.


--------------------
Thinking is dreaming wake up and enjoy the dream.


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OfflineTri High
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14340289 - 04/23/11 07:55 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Is philosophy not a religion?


--------------------
you just need money to get laid - starfire_xes


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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: Tri High]
    #14340431 - 04/23/11 08:28 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Nope. Religions are philosophies, but it doesn't go both ways.


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OfflineShroomScape
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: NetDiver]
    #14340572 - 04/23/11 08:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The 'religious questions' are by no means inaccessible or distinct from philosophy. It is the question of methodology that differentiates philosophy from religion.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14340728 - 04/23/11 09:22 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run with religious bullshit?

Well, I won't disagree that religion is bullshit. Be that as it may, it can definitely fall under the Sociology rubric. I argued against adding that to the forum name during the last renaming round, but I was overruled.

And no, religion is not philosophy.

I'm not so sure about that given that there is an entire branch of philosophy dedicated to religion.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlinethe bizzle
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: Diploid]
    #14341219 - 04/23/11 11:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

not to mention maybe people want to discuss the sociological and psychological aspects of religion. 


Would it really be for the benefit of philosophy if you excluded wondering what it is about this world and human nature that has led to and perpetuates religion?








Quote:


Poid said:
Posters in the other forum talk about religion in a positive light, whereas posters here generally do not.




:facepalm:

just...stop. You're trying too hard to be a poid


--------------------
MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID



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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: the bizzle]
    #14341302 - 04/23/11 11:26 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

the bizzle said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Posters in the other forum talk about religion in a positive light, whereas posters here generally do not.




:facepalm:

just...stop. You're trying too hard to be a poid


What the fuck are you talking about? Is what I said untrue in any way, shape, or form?

Are you alright there? :what:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlinethe bizzle
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: Poid]
    #14341565 - 04/24/11 12:29 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

What the fuck are you talking about? Is what I said untrue in any way, shape, or form?

Are you alright there? :what:




I'm just saying, your poid is showing


--------------------
MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID



Edited by the bizzle (04/24/11 12:35 AM)


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: the bizzle] * 1
    #14341676 - 04/24/11 12:58 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)



Sigmund Poid?


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: Diploid]
    #14341767 - 04/24/11 01:29 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run with religious bullshit?

Well, I won't disagree that religion is bullshit. Be that as it may, it can definitely fall under the Sociology rubric. I argued against adding that to the forum name during the last renaming round, but I was overruled.

And no, religion is not philosophy.

I'm not so sure about that given that there is an entire branch of philosophy dedicated to religion.




Then just out of curiosity, why do you remain moderating something that you despise?


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Offlinesoldatheero
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14341774 - 04/24/11 01:30 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Most of the threads about religion are not by people advocating religion. Most posts about religion seem to be done by orgone, diploid, poid and others that are criticizing religon.


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: soldatheero]
    #14341847 - 04/24/11 01:57 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

soldatheero said:
Most of the threads about religion are not by people advocating religion. Most posts about religion seem to be done by orgone, diploid, poid and others that are criticizing religon.




Agree


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: soldatheero] * 1
    #14342118 - 04/24/11 03:44 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

soldatheero said:
Most of the threads about religion are not by people advocating religion. Most posts about religion seem to be done by orgone, diploid, poid and others that are criticizing religon.




I have the feeling that you had a point and forgot to make it... :strokebeard:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #14342137 - 04/24/11 03:55 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

He is just acknowledging the major contributors to the forum.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: Diploid]
    #14342749 - 04/24/11 09:37 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run with religious bullshit?

Well, I won't disagree that religion is bullshit. Be that as it may, it can definitely fall under the Sociology rubric. I argued against adding that to the forum name during the last renaming round, but I was overruled.

And no, religion is not philosophy.

I'm not so sure about that given that there is an entire branch of philosophy dedicated to religion.



There are philosophical discussions about pretty much everything.  That doesn't mean everything is philosophy. 

Philosophy is a free ranging discussion without boundaries.  Religion is the exact opposite.  It is dogmatism and stricture.  I believe religious discussion belongs elsewhere.  Almost invariably it comes down to the vast majority here screaming "religion sucks and is for stupid people", which is kind of a dogma in it's own way.  It bores the shit out of me.  That is why I referred to it as "religious bullshit". 


Oh yeah,








































HAPPY EASTER YOU STUPID FUCKING CHRISTIANS!

Let's see if you can finally catch that damn rabbit this year.


--------------------


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: the bizzle]
    #14342836 - 04/24/11 10:10 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

the bizzle said:
Quote:

What the fuck are you talking about? Is what I said untrue in any way, shape, or form?

Are you alright there? :what:




I'm just saying, your poid is showing


:blush:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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OfflineShroomScape
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: Poid]
    #14342922 - 04/24/11 10:35 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

If someone excludes religion from the discussion of wisdom then they are being no less dogmatic or close minded than the theologian who refuses to account for scientific data that flies in the face of his faith.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: ShroomScape]
    #14342929 - 04/24/11 10:38 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I don't think the endless bleat here that "religion is for idiots" qualifies as a discussion of wisdom.


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Offlinedesert father
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14343077 - 04/24/11 11:15 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
with religious bullshit?  There is already another forum for that.  And no, religion is not philosophy.




i disagree.

each person has their own philosophy regarding their chosen religious path.  so each subjective religious experience is a philosophy in and of itself in regards to the believer.

just because it isn't your philosophy doesn't mean it isn't a philosophical concept.

but did you actually want to discuss this?
or were you complaining...

because if you were complaining aren't you just contributing to the "over-running" of this forum?


--------------------
vi veri veniversum vivus vici

What she said :
"I smoke 'cos I'm hoping for an
Early death
AND I NEED TO CLING TO SOMETHING !"


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Offline4896744
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: teknix]
    #14343238 - 04/24/11 12:05 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

Diploid said:
Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run with religious bullshit?

Well, I won't disagree that religion is bullshit. Be that as it may, it can definitely fall under the Sociology rubric. I argued against adding that to the forum name during the last renaming round, but I was overruled.

And no, religion is not philosophy.

I'm not so sure about that given that there is an entire branch of philosophy dedicated to religion.




Then just out of curiosity, why do you remain moderating something that you despise?




Why do you post such and obvious strawman?


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: desert father]
    #14343491 - 04/24/11 01:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

desert father said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
with religious bullshit?  There is already another forum for that.  And no, religion is not philosophy.




i disagree.

each person has their own philosophy regarding their chosen religious path.  so each subjective religious experience is a philosophy in and of itself in regards to the believer.

just because it isn't your philosophy doesn't mean it isn't a philosophical concept.




Religion is not philosophy.  It is not a free discussion of anything.  It is dogma.  There is no room for philosophical debate regharding religion.  It doesn't allow for it.
Quote:



but did you actually want to discuss this?
or were you complaining...

because if you were complaining aren't you just contributing to the "over-running" of this forum?




If this cleans the forum up I have performed a janitorial service that I think is much needed.


--------------------


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Offlinedesert father
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14343726 - 04/24/11 02:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

religion is dogma if that's the way you choose to interpret it...which it is obvious that you have.

i'm just saying that to each individual there is an individual understanding and interpretation of religion and religious topics.

do you think a priest approaches his spirituality the same way that a sunday church goer does?

do you think that a sunday church goer approaches his spirituality in the same way that i do?

no, and that's the point man, you can't just generalize people into groups, it's dangerous.


--------------------
vi veri veniversum vivus vici

What she said :
"I smoke 'cos I'm hoping for an
Early death
AND I NEED TO CLING TO SOMETHING !"


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: desert father]
    #14343729 - 04/24/11 02:28 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

desert father said:
no, and that's the point man, you can't just generalize people into groups, it's dangerous.


:lolsy:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: desert father]
    #14343758 - 04/24/11 02:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

desert father said:
religion is dogma if that's the way you choose to interpret it...which it is obvious that you have.

i'm just saying that to each individual there is an individual understanding and interpretation of religion and religious topics.

do you think a priest approaches his spirituality the same way that a sunday church goer does?

do you think that a sunday church goer approaches his spirituality in the same way that i do?

no, and that's the point man, you can't just generalize people into groups, it's dangerous.



That discussion would be more appropriate in the spirituality forum, wouldn't it?


--------------------


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: Poid]
    #14344093 - 04/24/11 03:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

desert father said:
no, and that's the point man, you can't just generalize people into groups, it's dangerous.


:lolsy:




It's only people who take these generalizations seriously that are dangerous.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14344098 - 04/24/11 03:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

There are philosophical discussions about pretty much everything.

That's true, but there isn't an entire branch of philosophy dedicated to pretty much everything. Meanwhile, the Philosophy of Religion IS a main branch of philosophy.

Arguing against that is like arguing that logic or epistemology or some other branch of philosophy doesn't belong in this forum.

From the Stanford University Encyclopedia of Philosophy:

[The branch of philosophy known as] Philosophy of Religion is the philosophical examination of the central themes and concepts involved in religious traditions. It involves all the main areas of philosophy: metaphysics, epistemology, logic, ethics and value theory, the philosophy of language, philosophy of science, law, sociology, politics, history, and so on. Philosophy of religion also includes an investigation into the religious significance of historical events (e.g., the Holocaust) and general features of the cosmos (e.g., laws of nature, the emergence of conscious life, widespread testimony of religious significance, and so on).

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/philosophy-religion/#FieSig


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: Diploid]
    #14344444 - 04/24/11 05:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

You still haven't presented any reason why this endless religious argument does not have a more suitable forum.  By your universal definition of philosophy there is nothing that is not within its purview, including OTD scat porn and snuff films.


--------------------


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: zappaisgod] * 3
    #14344581 - 04/24/11 05:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

You still haven't presented any reason why this endless religious argument does not have a more suitable forum

It's a matter of degree.

Religion discussion is more suitable in the S&M forum in the context of everyone agreeing and singing Kumbaya together. It's more suitable here in the context of debating its merits (or lack of) and its influence on the course of human events.

Similarly, most politics might be better suited to the Politics forum, but politics is a branch of philosophy too, and that discussion has a home here if the OP wants to discuss the philosophy of politics and the nature of government rather than the spin and marketing of politicians and popular media.

By your universal definition of philosophy there is nothing that is not within its purview, including OTD scat porn and snuff films.

That's pretty much true. Under the sociology rubric, almost anything is apropos here. That's why I opposed adding it to the forum name. But against my objection, here we are.

And while scat porn and snuff films themselves aren't kosher here [haha, religion pun], discussion on their sociological, psychological and even philosophical underpinnings is.

As you yourself said:

Quote:

Philosophy is a free ranging discussion without boundaries.




--------------------
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1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: Diploid]
    #14344617 - 04/24/11 05:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

no more drugs for me, pussy and religion is all i need


--------------------
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: g00ru]
    #14344792 - 04/24/11 06:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

philosophy and religion intersect because they both deal with metaphysical concepts. classical philosophers like plato and aristotle both had a major influence on christianity. imo philosophical arguments over religion belong here.


--------------------
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: millzy]
    #14344952 - 04/24/11 07:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

the philosophies of all major religions, at least their mystic traditions, are very valid, but their vocabulary is so different not only from each other but from western philosophy that it won't appear as such unless you know how to put the puzzle pieces together.  It's a common misconception that religions don't agree with each other philosophically; in fact they can all be placed in perfect accord.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: g00ru]
    #14345470 - 04/24/11 08:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

the observer is the eye in the sky and if youre as high as i, the eye is i!


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: astral czar]
    #14345480 - 04/24/11 08:41 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

i and i dig that post mon


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14356149 - 04/26/11 04:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
with religious bullshit?  There is already another forum for that.  And no, religion is not philosophy.




The discipline 'philosophy of religion' is just that - philosophy. One can earn a Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D.) degree in many disciplines, although most Ph.D.s don't seem to consider themselves as 'lovers of wisdom' so much as 'expert egos' in their respective field. Religions do include a 'love of wisdom,' but there are additional elements like ritual, ceremony, traditional forms of dress, food, song, music; not to mention points that are simply accepted on faith, i.e., dogma. Such points are no longer open to doubt or analysis according to pure religionists. Philosophy is more open to Truth in that no idea is closed to further analysis. Religion is more than an intellectual endeavor, not that philosophy isn't in its most sublime forms. There, intuition, 'vision-logic,' and Illumination are integral components of philosophy. At that level of philosophy, say, the NeoPlatonism of Plotinus, philosophy and religion become indistinguishable. Plotinus is unsurpassed as a philosopher, and yet, he entertained the reality and practice of magick, which those philosophers who venerate the rational mind above all other elements of mentation can never accept. Does that diminish his status as philosopher? I think not. Magick contains the truth of synchronicity, of sympathy, of non-locality, non-linearity and other insights about the nature of things. We must synthesize the Apollonian with the Dionysian to transcend the opposites. Thesis-Antithesis-Synthesis. Hegel.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #14356163 - 04/26/11 04:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

A PhD has nothing to do with philosophy.  You can have a PhD in Chemistry.  That doesn't make Chemistry Philosophy.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #14356361 - 04/26/11 05:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

What makes you think Plotinus was the greatest philosopher?


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14356941 - 04/26/11 06:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
A PhD has nothing to do with philosophy.  You can have a PhD in Chemistry.  That doesn't make Chemistry Philosophy.




Why do YOU think the terminal degree is called a Ph.D.? Ever think about it? Leucippus and his pupil Democritus are listed among philosophers of antiquity who spoke about 'atoms,' and such philosophers were called atomists. The pre-Ssocratic  philosophers were known for their emphasis on metaphysical substances (arche): Thales' water, Anaximander's apeiron, Anaximenes' air, the fire of Heraclitus, the earth of Empedocles, etc. All modern disciplines had their beginnings, East and West, among philosophers. Atomist philosophers coalesced in Aristotle, and for many centuries his four elements of Earth, Air, Fire nd Water dominated 'natural philosophy' which was the forerunner of science. Aristotle had profound influence upon the Arab alchemists who used his metaphysics (they, or perhaps, we, still do) in their philosophical system which divided into physical chemistry at some point and spiritual realization, of the vulgar gold and the Philosophical Gold (or Philosophers' Stone), respectively. So I beg to differ with you.


--------------------
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: 4896744]
    #14357016 - 04/26/11 06:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

iThink said:
What makes you think Plotinus was the greatest philosopher?




Greatest perhaps after Plato. Plotinus elaborated the thoughts of Plato and arranged them in a systematic hierarchy of Being. When, after the first week of a course I took in mysticism my last semester in college, everyone but me had dropped out. The professor, Dr. David Leahy, offered me a tutorial in The Enneads of Plotinus, topped off by a comparison with the 6th century Christian NeoPlatonist Dionysus the Areopagite AKA Pseudo-Dionysus, AKA St. Denis. I was still in my regular acid consumption phase, and I must have imprinted this rather difficult work on Plotinus, so that, when I began in a theological seminary the following fall, I was better prepared to describe the hierarchy than my professor Thomas C. Oden (another influence on me). The first thing I ever heard of Plotinus was a 4 second song on The Fugs album: It Crawled Into My Hand - Honest.
The song is called, 'Tuli Visited by the Ghost of Plotinus,' - a moment of weird sound with the words: "I'm in this for the sex, myself..." A total goof on the celibate, body-despising mystic. So, the personal choice is fed by these different memories which include my valuation by a respected professor, my small mastery over another respected professor, an adolescent impression that only later became understood and appreciated, PLUS my appreciation of a kindred soul from 270 CE. Capiche? :wink:


--------------------
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #14357186 - 04/26/11 07:26 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:

iThink said:
What makes you think Plotinus was the greatest philosopher?




Greatest perhaps after Plato. Plotinus elaborated the thoughts of Plato and arranged them in a systematic hierarchy of Being. When, after the first week of a course I took in mysticism my last semester in college, everyone but me had dropped out. The professor, Dr. David Leahy, offered me a tutorial in The Enneads of Plotinus, topped off by a comparison with the 6th century Christian NeoPlatonist Dionysus the Areopagite AKA Pseudo-Dionysus, AKA St. Denis. I was still in my regular acid consumption phase, and I must have imprinted this rather difficult work on Plotinus, so that, when I began in a theological seminary the following fall, I was better prepared to describe the hierarchy than my professor Thomas C. Oden (another influence on me). The first thing I ever heard of Plotinus was a 4 second song on The Fugs album: It Crawled Into My Hand - Honest.
The song is called, 'Tuli Visited by the Ghost of Plotinus,' - a moment of weird sound with the words: "I'm in this for the sex, myself..." A total goof on the celibate, body-despising mystic. So, the personal choice is fed by these different memories which include my valuation by a respected professor, my small mastery over another respected professor, an adolescent impression that only later became understood and appreciated, PLUS my appreciation of a kindred soul from 270 CE. Capiche? :wink:




You strike as possibly being one of the most over-educated (not a bad thing) acid heads to have ever existed.


--------------------
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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: 4896744]
    #14357802 - 04/26/11 09:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

iThink said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:

iThink said:
What makes you think Plotinus was the greatest philosopher?




Greatest perhaps after Plato. Plotinus elaborated the thoughts of Plato and arranged them in a systematic hierarchy of Being. When, after the first week of a course I took in mysticism my last semester in college, everyone but me had dropped out. The professor, Dr. David Leahy, offered me a tutorial in The Enneads of Plotinus, topped off by a comparison with the 6th century Christian NeoPlatonist Dionysus the Areopagite AKA Pseudo-Dionysus, AKA St. Denis. I was still in my regular acid consumption phase, and I must have imprinted this rather difficult work on Plotinus, so that, when I began in a theological seminary the following fall, I was better prepared to describe the hierarchy than my professor Thomas C. Oden (another influence on me). The first thing I ever heard of Plotinus was a 4 second song on The Fugs album: It Crawled Into My Hand - Honest.
The song is called, 'Tuli Visited by the Ghost of Plotinus,' - a moment of weird sound with the words: "I'm in this for the sex, myself..." A total goof on the celibate, body-despising mystic. So, the personal choice is fed by these different memories which include my valuation by a respected professor, my small mastery over another respected professor, an adolescent impression that only later became understood and appreciated, PLUS my appreciation of a kindred soul from 270 CE. Capiche? :wink:




You strike as possibly being one of the most over-educated (not a bad thing) acid heads to have ever existed.




:rofl:  Dependent arisings. Each moment of life is an agglutination of past events plus a moment of novelty. Hey, Francis Crick took acid and envisioned the double-helix. I am nobody.


--------------------
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #14357874 - 04/26/11 09:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

markos, i'm interested in learning more about plotinus, but i feel a scholar's explanation of him might do me better than trying to read him. any authors you could recommend that explain the nitty gritty of neo-platonism in plain language?


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14358875 - 04/26/11 11:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I think there is a lot of shared character and important overlap between theology and philosophy.


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You really are the worst kind of person.



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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: millzy]
    #14359105 - 04/27/11 12:46 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:
markos, i'm interested in learning more about plotinus, but i feel a scholar's explanation of him might do me better than trying to read him. any authors you could recommend that explain the nitty gritty of neo-platonism in plain language?



There's a great chapter on Plotinus in Bertrand Russell's "History of Western Philosophy," which is pretty easy reading.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: NetDiver]
    #14360046 - 04/27/11 08:40 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:

millzy said:
markos, i'm interested in learning more about plotinus, but i feel a scholar's explanation of him might do me better than trying to read him. any authors you could recommend that explain the nitty gritty of neo-platonism in plain language?



There's a great chapter on Plotinus in Bertrand Russell's "History of Western Philosophy," which is pretty easy reading.




thanks! yeah, i just don't want to take on a grad school level text when i'm not ready.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: millzy]
    #14360132 - 04/27/11 09:05 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

just take it on man, you'll adapt. read slow if you got to.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: g00ru]
    #14360186 - 04/27/11 09:22 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
just take it on man, you'll adapt. read slow if you got to.




some things are better assimilating under the guidance of an instructor. i started reading plato when i moved to greece in 2009. i understood it, but after a year of formal schooling i feel like i understand it on the level it is meant to be understood, or at least at a freshman level. plotinus is grad school stuff. sure, i could read it, but i'd like to get the most out of it. i'd be interested in a good starting point that lays out the central ideas of his metaphysics in layperson's terms, if there is such a thing.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #14360318 - 04/27/11 09:56 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
A PhD has nothing to do with philosophy.  You can have a PhD in Chemistry.  That doesn't make Chemistry Philosophy.




Why do YOU think the terminal degree is called a Ph.D.? Ever think about it? Leucippus and his pupil Democritus are listed among philosophers of antiquity who spoke about 'atoms,' and such philosophers were called atomists. The pre-Ssocratic  philosophers were known for their emphasis on metaphysical substances (arche): Thales' water, Anaximander's apeiron, Anaximenes' air, the fire of Heraclitus, the earth of Empedocles, etc. All modern disciplines had their beginnings, East and West, among philosophers. Atomist philosophers coalesced in Aristotle, and for many centuries his four elements of Earth, Air, Fire nd Water dominated 'natural philosophy' which was the forerunner of science. Aristotle had profound influence upon the Arab alchemists who used his metaphysics (they, or perhaps, we, still do) in their philosophical system which divided into physical chemistry at some point and spiritual realization, of the vulgar gold and the Philosophical Gold (or Philosophers' Stone), respectively. So I beg to differ with you.



Methinkest thou doth not comprehend language evolution.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14360582 - 04/27/11 11:08 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well, the sciences originally were a branch of philosophy. They have since become distinct, for the most part, though theoretical physicists often blur the line.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: NetDiver]
    #14361655 - 04/27/11 03:20 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

They weren't sciences, either.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14361762 - 04/27/11 03:37 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
A PhD has nothing to do with philosophy.  You can have a PhD in Chemistry.  That doesn't make Chemistry Philosophy.




Why do YOU think the terminal degree is called a Ph.D.? Ever think about it? Leucippus and his pupil Democritus are listed among philosophers of antiquity who spoke about 'atoms,' and such philosophers were called atomists. The pre-Ssocratic  philosophers were known for their emphasis on metaphysical substances (arche): Thales' water, Anaximander's apeiron, Anaximenes' air, the fire of Heraclitus, the earth of Empedocles, etc. All modern disciplines had their beginnings, East and West, among philosophers. Atomist philosophers coalesced in Aristotle, and for many centuries his four elements of Earth, Air, Fire nd Water dominated 'natural philosophy' which was the forerunner of science. Aristotle had profound influence upon the Arab alchemists who used his metaphysics (they, or perhaps, we, still do) in their philosophical system which divided into physical chemistry at some point and spiritual realization, of the vulgar gold and the Philosophical Gold (or Philosophers' Stone), respectively. So I beg to differ with you.



Methinkest thou doth not comprehend language evolution.




Methinkest thou a foolish knave. All things are layered. If I choose to dig more deeply than the majority, in order to unearth an archaic yet relevant meaning, it is my prerogative. I can mine the psyche of myself and others with hypnosis, and uncover a different individual at every age that is exposed. All layers contribute to the current personality. So, by analogy, the meaning of a Ph.D. in any given field of endeavor is still meaningful if one groks my intention. Certainly not a meaningless invention at any rate.


--------------------
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: MarkostheGnostic] * 2
    #14361910 - 04/27/11 03:59 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Markos, you've been warned about the childish name calling several times. If you choose to debate by insult, then go do it in OTD.

Take a time out.


--------------------
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1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14362628 - 04/27/11 05:55 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
They weren't sciences, either.




not true. with the advent of the university in medieval europe and the rise of scholasticism, theology was considered a science. in fact thomas aquinas called theology "the highest science". don't get me wrong though, i think hard sciences and social sciences (which i consider theology, in some cases, to be) deal in distinctly different areas and serve completely different purposes, but still, when approached in a certain way, theology can be considered a science.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: Diploid]
    #14363011 - 04/27/11 07:04 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Markos, you've been warned about the childish name calling several times. If you choose to debate by insult, then go do it in OTD.

Take a time out.




The poltical forum allows name calling as well.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: millzy] * 1
    #14363254 - 04/27/11 07:59 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:
theology can be considered a science.




If theology were a science then it would be possible to perform repeatable, empirical theological experiments... can you name any that fall under this category?


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: deCypher]
    #14365213 - 04/28/11 04:52 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

here's all of that quote just for clarity.

Quote:

i think hard sciences and social sciences (which i consider theology, in some cases, to be) deal in distinctly different areas and serve completely different purposes, but still, when approached in a certain way, theology can be considered a science.




in the case of thomas aquinas, theology was scientific because he established an aristotelian line of logic through scripture and used faith and its articles as the framework from which truths can be demonstrated and arguments can be made, providing each participant has faith to begin with. i equate it to politics or practicing law. politics, law and theology are based off of psychology and sociology, much in the same way that immunology is based off of microbiology. and when you get into kabbalistic magick and other mystical practices, it's very scientific. "the method of science with the aim of religion" as crowley put it. do x and y will happen. very distinct methodology for investigation and the repetition of experiments.

and again, i'm not saying that religion is in any way a hard science, nor am i pitting it against the hard sciences. there's room for both in the world.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: millzy]
    #14365882 - 04/28/11 09:12 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
They weren't sciences, either.




not true. with the advent of the university in medieval europe and the rise of scholasticism, theology was considered a science. in fact thomas aquinas called theology "the highest science". don't get me wrong though, i think hard sciences and social sciences (which i consider theology, in some cases, to be) deal in distinctly different areas and serve completely different purposes, but still, when approached in a certain way, theology can be considered a science.



Only in an alternate universe where the word "science" means something entirely different than it does in this one.  And you are quite right that much of the social sciences aren't science either.  Not all but a significant amount.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14366201 - 04/28/11 10:42 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

it's known as soft science


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: g00ru]
    #14366304 - 04/28/11 11:05 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
it's known as soft science



It's known as bullshit to me.  Really, has one fucking thing Sigmund Fraud said been of any use, except about cigars, which was a self repudiation.


--------------------


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14366446 - 04/28/11 11:35 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

yes, he taught us that there is in fact a SUBconscious aspect to our reality that we aren't always aware of, and that this informs many of our actions.  It was actually a revolution in human thought.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: g00ru]
    #14366477 - 04/28/11 11:40 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
yes, he taught us that there is in fact a SUBconscious aspect to our reality that we aren't always aware of, and that this informs many of our actions.  It was actually a revolution in human thought.



:rofl2:


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14366479 - 04/28/11 11:40 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

nice thoughtful response, you're clearly correct


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: g00ru]
    #14366532 - 04/28/11 11:50 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The idea that there were subconscious things going on in the mind did not originate with Freud (see Pavlov, for one) and I submit that his purely speculative and, in my opinion, perverse notions about what was going on set back the study of the mind by decades.  Not one single thing he proposed is even remotely valid.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14366899 - 04/28/11 01:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well much of it has been overturned but the fact that he linked behavior to sexual neuroses and stuff is fairly valid, that really does explain lots of behavior even if we have much more sophisticated models these days.  Freudian analysis was predominant in psychology for much of the 20th century


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: g00ru]
    #14366993 - 04/28/11 01:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

he taught us that there is in fact a SUBconscious aspect to our reality that we aren't always aware of




So we aren't aware of it and that's how we know it exists. Did I get it right?


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14367133 - 04/28/11 02:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Not one single thing he proposed is even remotely valid.



Sigmund Freud
Quote:

Freud is best known for his theories of the unconscious mind and the mechanism of repression, and for creating the clinical method of psychoanalysis for investigating the mind and treating psychopathology through dialogue between a patient (or "analysand") and a psychoanalyst.




You really think his theories on the unconscious mind, the mechanism of repression, and the clinical method of psychoanalysis (which is still used today) is not remotely valid? :flowstone:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
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It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


Edited by Poid (04/28/11 02:13 PM)


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: Poid]
    #14367275 - 04/28/11 02:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

poid said:

Quote:

Freud is best known for his theories of the unconscious mind and the mechanism of repression, and for creating the clinical method of psychoanalysis for investigating the mind and treating psychopathology through dialogue between a patient (or "analysand") and a psychoanalyst.




You really think the unconscious mind, the mechanism of repression, and the clinical method of psychoanalysis (which is still used today) is not remotely valid? :flowstone:






I just don't get how posts like these are not breaking the rules

no, you're not criticizing his argument. Your :flowstone: graemlin is a reference to this person's overall character


you did the same thing with guruu
Quote:

You believe this may be true, but you have absolutely no evidence to back it up. :flowstone:





So i guess if you type a sentence that refers to their argument, you are free to use whatever graemlin you want to imply the insult that would be against the rules if it were typed as a word


I see this often, and not just with poid. I'm not trying to be a rule nazi but I think it's unfair that some can freely attack other people's overall character with slightly clever use of graemlins, yet others get banned for it because they didn't use a graemlin

shit, i once got banned from the pub for referring to MYSELF as a :tard:



Quote:

poid said:
I'm sure you'd like to think so. :lol:





You are sure, but you have no evidence to back it up :tard:




Does favoritism happen with this forum and its moderating? :shrug: sometimes it seems like it. Or maybe you just have to know the proper way to work around the rules and you can get away with all the personal attacks you want.

it also naturally provokes people to retaliate with insults of their own, especially newcomers, and not understanding this graemlin loophole they use words and get a warning/ban

if it hurt my feelings so bad I wanted to cry about it i would have been bitching about this a lot for quite a while now.
It just seems pretty hypocritical and takes away from the integrity of this forum, especially when its the more frequent posters who do this most frequently (some weeks more than others).

:2cents:


carry on


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: the bizzle]
    #14367294 - 04/28/11 02:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Apparently, the use of emoticons to associate certain arguments with stupidity is appropriate according to the rules.

A lot of the "debate" that goes on here is comprised of subtle and not-so-subtle attempts to find ways around the rules against ad hominem arguments and personal insults. :shrug:


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: the bizzle]
    #14367308 - 04/28/11 02:33 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

the bizzle said:
Quote:

poid said:

Quote:

Freud is best known for his theories of the unconscious mind and the mechanism of repression, and for creating the clinical method of psychoanalysis for investigating the mind and treating psychopathology through dialogue between a patient (or "analysand") and a psychoanalyst.




You really think the unconscious mind, the mechanism of repression, and the clinical method of psychoanalysis (which is still used today) is not remotely valid? :flowstone:






I just don't get how posts like these are not breaking the rules


I'm not surprised in the least.


Quote:

the bizzle said:
Does favoritism happen with this forum and its moderating? :shrug: sometimes it seems like it.


What favoritism? Any user can type exactly what I did and not get punished, it's not against the rules.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14367342 - 04/28/11 02:39 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Apparently, the use of emoticons to associate certain arguments with stupidity is appropriate according to the rules.

A lot of the "debate" that goes on here is comprised of subtle and not-so-subtle attempts to find ways around the rules against ad hominem arguments and personal insults. :shrug:




it is encouraged to criticize the arguments. Stupid, retarded, half-witted arguments. Really dumb ideas. Even intelligent people have some really dumb ideas

that is completely different from inferring "to say something like that you must be retarded in general"


but with graemlins and insinuation, not direct words... still, it doesn't take too much intelligence to see when it is the person in general who is being insulted, not the idea or argument presented. But oh well, that's what this forum is, I guess


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: the bizzle]
    #14367354 - 04/28/11 02:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah. I hope I don't get banned for saying this, but many people here are not particularly intellectually involved in debate and just happen to be bored and cynical.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14367367 - 04/28/11 02:42 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Hey, at least someone can see that. All is well :feelsgoodman:


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14367405 - 04/28/11 02:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Yeah. I hope I don't get banned for saying this, but many people here are not particularly intellectually involved in debate and just happen to be bored and cynical.


Probably because they've heard it all before.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14367903 - 04/28/11 04:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Only in an alternate universe where the word "science" means something entirely different than it does in this one.  And you are quite right that much of the social sciences aren't science either.  Not all but a significant amount.




explain why, in your opinion, which of the social sciences shouldn't be qualified as such.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: millzy]
    #14367910 - 04/28/11 04:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I think it should be important not to conflate the historical definition of the word "science" with the products of the modern "scientific method."


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14367933 - 04/28/11 04:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I think it should be important not to conflate the historical definition of the word "science" with the products of the modern "scientific method."




if you read what i said, i wasn't doing anything of the sort.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: millzy]
    #14367982 - 04/28/11 04:26 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I was actually responding to ZappaIsGod's argument and agreeing with you.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14367995 - 04/28/11 04:28 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

right on. i thought that was directed at me.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: g00ru]
    #14368664 - 04/28/11 06:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
Well much of it has been overturned but the fact that he linked behavior to sexual neuroses and stuff is fairly valid,



No.  It was vile sexist repressive crap.  100%.  Harmful crap, I might add.
Quote:


that really does explain lots of behavior even if we have much more sophisticated models these days.




No it doesn't.  It doesn't explain anything and it hurt many many people.
Quote:

  Freudian analysis was predominant in psychology for much of the 20th century




Hence my opinion that he retarded rather than advanced the study of the mind.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14369737 - 04/28/11 09:39 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

you really think freud retarded the study of the mind.  You realize Carl Jung was an early protege of his, right? Do you also think Carl Jung held back modern psychology? :rofl: cause that my friend would be WRONG


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14369959 - 04/28/11 10:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

ZIG I'd really like to hear some examples of why you feel this way about Freud. Without an explanation of how he set the field of psychology back it's really hard to tell what you're getting at.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14371504 - 04/29/11 07:37 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

idk, i'm reading siggy atm, and it's this insufferable, tragically materialistic text called 'the future of an illusion'. cynical, narrow minded and not even applicable in some respects of my studies. freud's an important voice in that he's a very loud voice, but i would hardly put him up as psychology's poster boy.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: g00ru]
    #14371666 - 04/29/11 08:28 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
you really think freud retarded the study of the mind.  You realize Carl Jung was an early protege of his, right? Do you also think Carl Jung held back modern psychology? :rofl: cause that my friend would be WRONG




Yes and yes.  Jung was also completely full of shit.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14371672 - 04/29/11 08:31 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
ZIG I'd really like to hear some examples of why you feel this way about Freud. Without an explanation of how he set the field of psychology back it's really hard to tell what you're getting at.



Because he sent everybody in the field off on wild nonsensical goose chases, utterly without any scientific merit or discipline, after nebulous and undefinable bullshit.  He and his interpretive ilk so dominated the field with complete bilge for decades (Freudian psychoanalysis was still being taught in the late '70s.)  A complete and total waste of time and effort that led nowhere.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14371681 - 04/29/11 08:34 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Finally! Something we agree on. Freud and Jung were both quacks.

Although I think there's value to research psychology, I think clinical psychology is mostly bullshit.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: Diploid]
    #14371686 - 04/29/11 08:36 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Finally! Something we agree on. Freud and Jung were both quacks.

Although I think there's value to research psychology, I think clinical psychology is mostly bullshit.



We've agreed on many things in the past.  Just not everything.  Like your ban.  JK.  I was only twitting you.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: Diploid]
    #14371700 - 04/29/11 08:39 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I picked up one of Jung's books at the library once..had to put it down because it was full of a bunch of mystical nonsense. :nut:


--------------------
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fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: Poid]
    #14371706 - 04/29/11 08:40 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
I picked up one of Jung's books at the library once..had to put it down because it was full of a bunch of mystical nonsense. :nut:



You saved yourself several useless hours better spent pleasuring yourself.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14371712 - 04/29/11 08:42 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

My pleasure time usually only lasts a couple of minutes. :sad:


--------------------
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fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: Poid]
    #14371723 - 04/29/11 08:43 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
My pleasure time usually only lasts a couple of minutes. :sad:



You know you can do it more than once, right?


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14371726 - 04/29/11 08:45 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

No, my refractory period lasts for hours. :tongue2:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: Poid]
    #14371941 - 04/29/11 10:26 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

materialists who endorse psychedelics. very odd bunch here.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: millzy]
    #14371945 - 04/29/11 10:27 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Why is that odd?


--------------------
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fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: millzy]
    #14372149 - 04/29/11 11:15 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:
materialists who endorse psychedelics. very odd bunch here.




Indeed, rational people tend to seem odd to the others.


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #14372160 - 04/29/11 11:19 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Taking psychedelics made me more of a materialist. If I can change my consciousness with chemicals, it logically follows that my consciousness is made of chemicals. :shrug:


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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: NetDiver]
    #14372177 - 04/29/11 11:24 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Same here. :thumbup:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: NetDiver]
    #14372183 - 04/29/11 11:25 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Taking psychedelics made me more of a materialist. If I can change my consciousness with chemicals, it logically follows that my consciousness is made of chemicals. :shrug:




I figured this out the first time I saw somebody get drunk, because I was raised with an adequately functioning theory of mind. I was six. I continued to grow after that revelation.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



Edited by Tchan909 (04/29/11 11:50 AM)


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Invisiblemillzy
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #14373694 - 04/29/11 05:02 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

millzy said:
materialists who endorse psychedelics. very odd bunch here.




Indeed, rational people tend to seem odd to the others.




so being a monist or dualist automatically makes a person irrational?


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: millzy]
    #14373701 - 04/29/11 05:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:
Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

millzy said:
materialists who endorse psychedelics. very odd bunch here.




Indeed, rational people tend to seem odd to the others.




so being a monist or dualist automatically makes a person irrational?




No. Disagreeing with MushroomTrip makes you irrational.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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OfflineHippieChick8
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14373771 - 04/29/11 05:17 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Quote:

millzy said:
Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

millzy said:
materialists who endorse psychedelics. very odd bunch here.




Indeed, rational people tend to seem odd to the others.




so being a monist or dualist automatically makes a person irrational?




No. Disagreeing with MushroomTrip makes you irrational.




But she is an EXPERT on what is rational!  :penis:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: HippieChick8]
    #14373781 - 04/29/11 05:19 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

You're only pissed off cause I show you how much crap there is in your posts.  :goat:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineNetDiver
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Registered: 08/24/09
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14373885 - 04/29/11 05:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I figured this out the first time I saw somebody get drunk, because I was raised with an adequately functioning theory of mind. I was six. I continued to grow after that revelation.



Making up nonsense does not count as "growing," just so you're aware.


--------------------


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: NetDiver]
    #14373889 - 04/29/11 05:41 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I figured this out the first time I saw somebody get drunk, because I was raised with an adequately functioning theory of mind. I was six. I continued to grow after that revelation.



Making up nonsense does not count as "growing," just so you're aware.




Are you responding to anything I said in particular?


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: Poid]
    #14377042 - 04/30/11 11:09 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
I picked up one of Jung's books at the library once..had to put it down because it was full of a bunch of mystical nonsense. :nut:




you just didn't get it.  there's a reason he's so widely respected.  the man went deeper into his dream states and subconscious then anybody in western academia had to that point.  by the end of his life he could only remember internal events, not external.


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: g00ru]
    #14377210 - 04/30/11 11:49 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

He is respected more for his art than for his theories, which are total bunk.  It sounds to me like Alzheimer's overtook him at the end of his life.  That's not a state of consciousness most people would describe as desirable.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: g00ru]
    #14380140 - 04/30/11 11:09 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
Quote:

Poid said:
I picked up one of Jung's books at the library once..had to put it down because it was full of a bunch of mystical nonsense. :nut:




you just didn't get it.


Why do you assume that, just because I was uninterested in and disagreed with his propositions, this means I didn't "get it"? Can you please actually answer this question?


Quote:

guruu said:
there's a reason he's so widely respected.  the man went deeper into his dream states and subconscious then anybody in western academia had to that point.


There is no solid evidence which suggests that there is a such thing as a "subconscious"--there may be an unconscious mind, but those two are not the same thing.

Who cares if he went deep into his dream states? Why should I find his dream states interesting?


Quote:

guruu said:
by the end of his life he could only remember internal events, not external.


Um, who gives a shit?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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Invisible1983
Stranger

Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 130
Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: NetDiver]
    #14381587 - 05/01/11 07:45 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Taking psychedelics made me more of a materialist. If I can change my consciousness with chemicals, it logically follows that my consciousness is made of chemicals. :shrug:




Hammers make people unconscious, it logically follows that consciousness is made of hammers.:shrug:


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: 1983]
    #14381872 - 05/01/11 09:54 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

1983 said:
Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Taking psychedelics made me more of a materialist. If I can change my consciousness with chemicals, it logically follows that my consciousness is made of chemicals. :shrug:




Hammers make people unconscious, it logically follows that consciousness is made of hammers.:shrug:




not to mention, psychedelics don't change your consciousness, they change qualities that exist within your consciousness.  In many cases, what we think of as the psychedelic experience is just many of our minute-to-minute patterns getting blasted out and we can see the pure consciousness much more easily.  But then, it's a drug, so shit's all wonky on top of that and there's visuals.  So you can come back and describe the concrete qualities of the trip, even though the mind blowing thing is your own consciousness which it makes very apparent.


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Why is the philosophy, sociology and psychology forum being over-run [Re: 1983]
    #14382033 - 05/01/11 10:52 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

1983 said:
Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Taking psychedelics made me more of a materialist. If I can change my consciousness with chemicals, it logically follows that my consciousness is made of chemicals. :shrug:




Hammers make people unconscious, it logically follows that consciousness is made of hammers.:shrug:




:rofldrunk:


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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