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InvisibleKillerPicklez
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You "Law Experts" out there
    #14335537 - 04/22/11 09:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I have a buddy looking at a pretty serious charge (thank god I wasnt home when the police came). He gave information to the police, confessed to his crime (idiot cant keep his mouth shut) but he was never read his rights. Is that confession or anything he said admissible in court?


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Invisiblerackem
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #14335547 - 04/22/11 09:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

if it was a dui

it doesnt matter if he was read his miranda rights or not.

you may want to cruise over to safety and security and post the full story.

the miranda rights clause has some loopholes


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #14335551 - 04/22/11 09:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

He's most likely still fucked... most lawyers would vouch that they're not that worried about your 'rights'.


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InvisibleKillerPicklez
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: rackem]
    #14335555 - 04/22/11 09:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

No, it was criminal trespassing

Basically admitted to picking a lock in order to search a place for his property. the owner confirmed nothing was stolen but still got the trespassing charge.


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Invisiblerackem
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #14335569 - 04/22/11 09:33 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

in that case sense he opened his mouth the only thing he has left really is to get a lawyer to plea down his charges.

the miranda rights dont really have much warrent if you cry your eyes out, cause you already admitted guilt


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OfflineHeffy
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #14335593 - 04/22/11 09:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Trespassing is not a serious charge.

In fact it is one of the least serious charges that can be lain against someone.


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InvisibleKillerPicklez
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: Heffy]
    #14335594 - 04/22/11 09:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Heffy said:
Trespassing is not a serious charge.

In fact it is one of the least serious charges that can be lain against someone.




It's a felony charge. And he has priors i believe. Dont know whether he has a prior trespassing or not though


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Invisible4HO-DMT
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: rackem]
    #14335725 - 04/22/11 10:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

rackem said:
in that case sense he opened his mouth the only thing he has left really is to get a lawyer to plea down his charges.

the miranda rights dont really have much warrent if you cry your eyes out, cause you already admitted guilt




They are called "rights" but they really aren't.  He should have kept his mouth shut.  You and he should watch this it is well worth your time:


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Offlinethelivingfreekshow
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #14335732 - 04/22/11 10:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

KillerPicklez said:
No, it was criminal trespassing

Basically admitted to picking a lock in order to search a place for his property. the owner confirmed nothing was stolen but still got the trespassing charge.




you must live in texas.....if its a felony, its a serious misdemeanor here


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #14335739 - 04/22/11 10:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Even if it became an issue, the cops would just lie in court and say they Miranda'd your friend.


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InvisibleKillerPicklez
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: 4HO-DMT]
    #14335750 - 04/22/11 10:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Right, no way I would ever confess a crime to a cop. But I was just curious in his case because he was never read his rights. I didnt know if he could fight it and have it dropped on that technicality. The law says that all confessions must be obtained in a lawful manner....


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Invisible4HO-DMT
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #14335772 - 04/22/11 10:23 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

KillerPicklez said:
Right, no way I would ever confess a crime to a cop. But I was just curious in his case because he was never read his rights. I didnt know if he could fight it and have it dropped on that technicality. The law says that all confessions must be obtained in a lawful manner....





He could try to go that route, but the cops aren't required to read you the Miranda rights.  Just like, you are not required to say anything to them.


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Invisiblepwnasaurus
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: 4HO-DMT]
    #14335791 - 04/22/11 10:25 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Your friend is a dumbass - shouldn't have opened his mouth.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: Le_Canard]
    #14335952 - 04/22/11 10:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ToiletDuk said:
Even if it became an issue, the cops would just lie in court and say they Miranda'd your friend.





they cant just lie, in order to have mirandized him they have to read him his
rights from the piece of paper that he has to sign that acknowledges that
he's been read his rights and understands them


KP, your friend is fucked, it's not like everyone on the planet doesnt
already know the phrase "you have the right to remain silent, anything you
say can and will be used against you in a court of law", you cant watch a
movie or TV show that has a cop in it that doesnt have that phrase uttered
and to top it all off, he's an idiot, the confession is admissible miranda
warning or not, he admitted to to a cop a crime that he committed. it's no
different than if he'd admitted it to a stranger who called the cops and
testified against him


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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #14335957 - 04/22/11 10:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

i'm not sure about the whole reading the rights and miranda rights thing in america, but i think its fairly safe to say he's going to be convicted of a DUI if he has been tested and failed, and admitted to it in the interview room. that can all be used as evidence.


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InvisibleKillerPicklez
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: Dosile Kouki]
    #14336301 - 04/23/11 12:10 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

DosileFlynn said:
i'm not sure about the whole reading the rights and miranda rights thing in america, but i think its fairly safe to say he's going to be convicted of a DUI if he has been tested and failed, and admitted to it in the interview room. that can all be used as evidence.




It has nothing to do with a DUI. The guy picked a lock of a tenants room inside an apartment he is living at. The tenants have stolen several things from him and he wanted them back.


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Invisiblerackem
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #14336317 - 04/23/11 12:14 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

this america bro..

he should have never told teh cops the truth..


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InvisibleKillerPicklez
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: rackem]
    #14336378 - 04/23/11 12:26 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Right. I mean I have told him all of this now but that doesnt really help that he panicked and told when he did.

I just thought that he might be able to fight his confession based on the fact that he was ever read his rights which is required under the United States Constitution and State law as well.

I guess I need to do some research on what a lawful conviction is for him. He is pretty stupid and uneducated so I try to offer him as much help as I can from my own experiences with

There should be some site out there that outlines what unlawful and lawful confessions are

Sucks, this guy is a good friend of mine, going to feel for him even if he gets the minimum on the charge which is 30 days.


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OfflineDosile Kouki
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #14336542 - 04/23/11 12:54 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

KillerPicklez said:
Quote:

DosileFlynn said:
i'm not sure about the whole reading the rights and miranda rights thing in america, but i think its fairly safe to say he's going to be convicted of a DUI if he has been tested and failed, and admitted to it in the interview room. that can all be used as evidence.




It has nothing to do with a DUI. The guy picked a lock of a tenants room inside an apartment he is living at. The tenants have stolen several things from him and he wanted them back.




forgive my retardedness, i somehow thought i read DUI in the OP.

Well, if he's been caught and admitted to the crime, he's most likely going to be found guilty. Thats not really the issue.


But luckily for him, his lawyer will be able to raise the arguement that he has only committed these crimes in trying to retrieve his own goods, to mitigate and reduce his sentence.

It would be beneficial if he can show that he made all reasonable attempts to contact this person to retrieve his goods, i.e. phone calls, messages, conversation etc. , to no avail, and so he resorted to breaking  in to retrieve his goods.



These circumstances should be able to mitigate the sentence your friend may receive, and it may even be possible for the lawyer to ask for the conviction to be quashed, and only a fine be paid instead. The effect of this is that the police will still have a record of him being charged with breaking and entering, but his public record will record no convictions, for jobs and whatnot.


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InvisibleKillerPicklez
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: Dosile Kouki]
    #14336693 - 04/23/11 01:26 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks for the information. I havent got my chance to do much research for him. I just got out yesterday on an old warrant :facepalm:

I know he is broke so he will be getting a public pretender.

Good point about getting it mitigated since nothing was taken and I was only looking for my property, property that she admitted to at least having 1 of my items to the police (a 150$ benchmade all purpose blade). But cops didnt do anything to her. I thought she should have been charged theft or at least with receiving stolen properties cause I bet it was her bf who stole them from me in the first place. He's one dirty monkey


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14336702 - 04/23/11 01:28 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

ToiletDuk said:
Even if it became an issue, the cops would just lie in court and say they Miranda'd your friend.





they cant just lie, in order to have mirandized him they have to read him his
rights from the piece of paper that he has to sign that acknowledges that
he's been read his rights and understands them




Oh. It's been a while since I've been arrested.


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Invisiblerackem
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: Le_Canard]
    #14336750 - 04/23/11 01:43 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

under certain circumstances they dont have to read them.

dui is one of them and any time you already admit guilt thats it. (double check on the later but that is how i understand the law to be as it sits) i have been arrested and have not heard the miranda rights before


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InvisibleKillerPicklez
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: Le_Canard]
    #14336770 - 04/23/11 01:48 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

If they claim they do, the entire interview was recorded and no where on that tap will it show that he was read his rights (because he wasnt), which is required by law.

Fucked up part is, cops were there because he called them to serve an order of protection to some guy who had been threatening him

I hope he doesnt end up doing too much time. He also has the False Reporting to law enforcement which is a M1, likely to be dropped if he takes a plea to the Trespassing charge. imo.


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #14336772 - 04/23/11 01:50 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well, maybe they'll give him a break since he confessed and trespassing isn't all that terrible a charge.


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Invisiblerackem
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #14336776 - 04/23/11 01:51 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

i would suggest your friend gettign something better that a pd.

try to work out some sort of payment play with them cause just to press the loop hole issue. :twocents:


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: Le_Canard]
    #14336778 - 04/23/11 01:51 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ToiletDuk said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

ToiletDuk said:
Even if it became an issue, the cops would just lie in court and say they Miranda'd your friend.





they cant just lie, in order to have mirandized him they have to read him his
rights from the piece of paper that he has to sign that acknowledges that
he's been read his rights and understands them




Oh. It's been a while since I've been arrested.





yeah but that was back in the day before they even had miranda rights and
could still beat you with a rubber hose to get a confession


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14336780 - 04/23/11 01:53 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not that old! Besides, you ain't that far behind me, old man. :razz:


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: Le_Canard]
    #14336783 - 04/23/11 01:54 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

oh yeah... you got any geritol you can spare?


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14336787 - 04/23/11 01:55 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Hush you, or I'll grease up your walker again.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: Le_Canard]
    #14336799 - 04/23/11 02:00 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I'll cut the strings on my girdle, we'll see how ya like that


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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14336803 - 04/23/11 02:01 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Not that! And I'm all out of Depends too.


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Invisiblerackem
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: Le_Canard]
    #14336808 - 04/23/11 02:02 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

i think wal marts having a sale


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OfflineDosile Kouki
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #14336809 - 04/23/11 02:02 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

if you have prior offences, that is going to make things alot more difficult for you, and you probably wont be able to get a no conviction ruling.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #14336847 - 04/23/11 02:14 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Everything you say or do can and will be held against you in a court of law.


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InvisibleKillerPicklez
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: Shroomism]
    #14337223 - 04/23/11 06:35 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

so what is an unlawful confession?

It's not me that is in trouble it's one of my good buddies. I just dont see how it could be used in court if he was never read his rights.

He is still locked up right now on the charges awaiting his first court appearance which will just be a pre-trail and he will probably get his first plea deal then as well


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OfflineDosile Kouki
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #14337225 - 04/23/11 06:36 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

you sit in the interview room. they tape it and probably film it. they ask you questions in relations to crimes. you admit to committing a crime of your own will. thus this is evidence. thus you are guilty of the crimes you admit to, unless you can rebut this presumption.


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InvisibleKillerPicklez
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: Dosile Kouki]
    #14337228 - 04/23/11 06:42 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

He was asked questions at his own house, while having the police our serving an order of protection against someone who was at his house. Then got hit with the charge.

I just read this though; and this was kinda my hunch


The Miranda Warning is a police warning which is given to criminal suspects who are in the custody of law enforcement in the United States before they can ask questions regarding what took place during the crime.

Law enforcement can only ask for specific information such as name, date of birth and address without having to read the suspects their Miranda warnings. Confessions and other information that you provide them will not make up admissible evidence unless you have been made aware of and waived your "Miranda rights".

The Miranda warnings were mandated by the 1966 United States Supreme Court decision in the case of Miranda v. Arizona as to protect a criminal suspect's Fifth Amendment right to help avoid self-incrimination during police interrogation. This was once referred to as undergoing the ‘third degree.’


edit- His whole questioning outside our house was taped so if replayed in court it will show that he was never read his rights.


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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #14337235 - 04/23/11 06:48 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

so when he was taken in, did he also restate his confession and sign it at the station?


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InvisibleKillerPicklez
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #14337252 - 04/23/11 07:03 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

makaveli8x8 said:
so when he was taken in, did he also restate his confession and sign it at the station?




no.

he was booked, cited, and released. he only went to jail because he had an outstanding warrant for missing a court date awhile back.


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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #14337294 - 04/23/11 07:28 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

weird, i always thought you had to sign a confession to make it official.  I mean obviously they can use anything you say against you but i didn't think that applied to a confession, i mean i thought if it wasn't signed then it wasn't "proof" yet, just evidence. for example he could have been under the influence, intimidated/pushed into the confession, etc which is why i thought they could only be done at the station with a witness/lawyer present.  However even if this was the case, there's video that would most likely show otherwise in regards to some of that

I think the problem here tho is that he confessed before he was under arrest, so the miranda rights thing might not apply, so they didn't have to ask him anything after he was arrested.  i mean does a cop have to stop everyone midsentence to read them there rights incase they confess a crime? lol he basically walked up to a cop and said take me in


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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: makaveli8x8]
    #14337333 - 04/23/11 07:45 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah I realize he made mistakes but I am now trying to help him in any way I can. Figure out what can be said in court and what evidence can be used against him.

I think that as soon as the cop started questioning him that they should have stopped and informed him of his rights.... That is what happens every time I get arrested :shrug:

edit- yes, I feel like that is part of what the constitution says and the whole State of Arizona vs. Miranda was all about. Protect yourself against self incrimination. I feel like the first thing out of his mouth should have been "mind if we ask you some questions, btw you have the right to remain silent and anything you say or confess may be used against you in court"

my buddy has going for him that he had just woken up, placed a distressed 9-1-1 call to have someone removed from the house and was in a full blown panic attack and not thinking clearly


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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #14337339 - 04/23/11 07:47 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

during the committal hearing , both parties exchange all of their evidence and info relative to the case. Your lawyer will get all of that.


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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: Dosile Kouki]
    #14337345 - 04/23/11 07:50 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

DosileFlynn said:
during the committal hearing , both parties exchange all of their evidence and info relative to the case. Your lawyer will get all of that.




I dont have a lawyer because I am in no way related to this case. He wont have a lawyer though either. Just a public pretender if he even qualifies for that. I know he doesnt have money but I think he family does (although they arent going to help him pay for a lawyer)

I have a DUI and a petty "violating an order of protection" charge. Then a weed and pipe charge coming up in the future.


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OfflineDosile Kouki
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #14337370 - 04/23/11 07:58 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

well this is relevant to whoever the original post is in reference to. His public defender, is still a lawyer, and will get all of the evidence given to him in a brief by the prosecutor during the committal hearing.

Although if it's pretty clear that your friend is going to be found guilty for what he is alleged to have done, its better to just plead guilty. You get a concession for doing this, and then introduce the other information previously stated to mitigate his sentence further, and if possible push for a conviction to not be recorded.


That seems to be the best outcome in my mind, if my understanding of the facts of the case are correct.


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InvisibleKillerPicklez
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: Dosile Kouki]
    #14337456 - 04/23/11 08:26 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I guess it will all come down to what the public defender says. I just wish I could find information that was conclusive and help him out.

He goes back to court next week just to put in his plea so I will have more information at that point. I dont have a law degree by any means but ive been to jail a couple of times and studied a bit of law here and there.

I am hoping that he just gets a minimal sentence and can serve his time with me when I do my DUI. We can sit in jail and make hooch to sell :crazy2:


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OfflineDosile Kouki
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #14337468 - 04/23/11 08:34 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

he's not going to go to jail don't worry. he will have to pay some sort of fine, probably either get a conviction or a good behaviour bond of some sort. i find it really difficult to believe they will send him to prison for picking a lock.


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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: Dosile Kouki]
    #14337473 - 04/23/11 08:37 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

prison and jail are 2 different places.

and there is no such thing as a good behavior bond. Once you are convicted you got to do your time.

I live in Arizona, under Sheriff Joe Arpaio's fucked up rules. Someone needs to take that clown out. The jail conditions are borderline unconstitutional. He houses the inmates in a building condemned by the health department. He just makes enough money off the inmates that he can afford to pay the monthly fine.


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OfflineDosile Kouki
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #14337476 - 04/23/11 08:44 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

australia is a bit different. We have all sorts of different punishments judges can choose to implement. Good behaviour bonds, Community Based Orders (community service), suspended sentences, fines, etc etc etc


yeah i've actually seen that Joe Arpaio guy on some tv shows about drugs and prison and things.


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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: Dosile Kouki]
    #14337573 - 04/23/11 09:29 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah he is a major dick. You literally cant eat the dinner at all. It is fucking slop and EVERYDAY for breakfast you get bread, peanut butter, and 2 oranges or a grapefruit.

I know it's jail and not a Hilton but it is fucking sickening the way they treat people who havent even been sentenced yet. All my time so far that I have served has been while "innocent until proven guilty"

He is also under investigation by the Feds for how he treats prisoners and for misspending 100 million dollars of state money


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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #14337741 - 04/23/11 10:40 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Just heard from my friend; he talked to a lawyer and the lawyer seems to think that either the charges will be dismissed or the penalty will be very light. Something like 1-3 years of probation and that's it. He seemed more worried about the "Giving False Information to Law Enforcement" charge which is the M1.

I guess his trespassing was downgraded also, I thought it was felony trespassing but apparently 3rd degree trespassing is only an M3.

If he does go to jail it should be for less than a month


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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #14337793 - 04/23/11 10:53 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

gotta love lawyers... only when you need them..


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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: rackem]
    #14337802 - 04/23/11 10:55 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

They are money-sucking scum. Funny how if you cough up 5 grand they will get you out of almost anything, but if you have a state appointed lawyer you pretty much get fucked. Just shows how fair and equal the system is :rolleyes:


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OfflineDosile Kouki
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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #14337814 - 04/23/11 10:57 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Lawyers aren't scum. Lawyers are around to help people like you who need advice on the inner workings of the legal system. They are trained professionals, just like financial planners and auditors.



Your whole thread is a testament to the fact of why we need lawyers.


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Re: You "Law Experts" out there [Re: Dosile Kouki]
    #14337865 - 04/23/11 11:12 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

They charge ridiculous prices though. My buddy has to come up with 5 grand just as the retainer. So just to sign papers and get basic information and case started is 5,000 then he charges per court appearance.

I told my buddy to at least go listen to their first plea deal before he drops money on a lawyer. I dont think he can afford a lawyer anyways.

The prosecutor for this town is a dick. He is more than likely going to have the same one that ive had a number of times. They tried to hit me with 3 months in jail for my DUI and even the judge turned them down. I have 55 days currently but I think I can get it reduced to 35-40 days.


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