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Offlinesynapz
pee on flowing lava = fail
Male

Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 80
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: Diploid]
    #14335012 - 04/22/11 07:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

*nods*

In that case your posts amount to trolling. It's against the rules. Post on topic or take it to the OTD forum where noise is how they debate there.

Consider this your warning.




how about no

u can suck my dick instead how about that?


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Oh Snapz

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Offlinesynapz
pee on flowing lava = fail
Male

Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 80
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: synapz]
    #14335073 - 04/22/11 08:06 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

LOL!

he actually did! the fool actually wasted his time to "report me"

for what?

FOR WHAT?


Nature of offense: Offender Answered A Question

lmao cant make this shit up if u tried

grow up and quit bein a little bitch yesh


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Oh Snapz

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OfflineLightShedder
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Registered: 08/30/05
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Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: synapz]
    #14335120 - 04/22/11 08:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Have some freewill would ya!?!?


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Offlinesynapz
pee on flowing lava = fail
Male

Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 80
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: LightShedder]
    #14335148 - 04/22/11 08:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

uh u mean restraint ?


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Oh Snapz

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InvisiblePoid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
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Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area Flag
Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14335177 - 04/22/11 08:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
If you could choose to have Free Will or not, which way would you pick?



Undecided...:undecided:


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinesynapz
pee on flowing lava = fail
Male

Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 80
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: Poid]
    #14335354 - 04/22/11 08:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Undecided...




Sounds like a plan if I ever heard one :smile:


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Oh Snapz

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InvisiblePoid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
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Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: synapz]
    #14335361 - 04/22/11 08:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:highfive:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: LightShedder]
    #14337034 - 04/23/11 03:53 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

LightShedder said:
Have some freewill would ya!?!?





Doesn't seem to have any.

Unluckily for him, being a drama queen and having a tantrum over recieving a warning will get ya the same result whether you have free will or not.

Yeesh- figured I better ban the guy or there'd be fifty more posts bitching about Diploid's warning by the time another mod comes across it, lol.

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Offline4896744
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Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14337808 - 04/23/11 10:56 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
If you could choose to have Free Will or not, which way would you pick?




Well the existence of free will would require some crazy ass magic shit, and that sounds like it might be interesting so let's say maybe.


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: 4896744]
    #14338373 - 04/23/11 12:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Maybe what?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offline4896744
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Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: Poid]
    #14339360 - 04/23/11 04:31 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I would maybe choose to have free will exist. I would want a general rundown on what that would entail, for in our physical world it is a ridiculous idea.


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: 4896744]
    #14339411 - 04/23/11 04:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The idea of free will is nonsensical because it would require input beyond that of the structure of your brain caused by DNA and past experiences.

It's not that simple.

If have two choices A and B, you might argue that my choice is an irrevocable consequence of my past experiences. But I could decide to choose based in the flip of a coin.

What happens to your premise now that my decision is no longer a function of my past experiences (if it ever was).


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Offline4896744
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Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: Diploid]
    #14339824 - 04/23/11 06:00 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
The idea of free will is nonsensical because it would require input beyond that of the structure of your brain caused by DNA and past experiences.

It's not that simple.

If have two choices A and B, you might argue that my choice is an irrevocable consequence of my past experiences. But I could decide to choose based in the flip of a coin.

What happens to your premise now that my decision is no longer a function of my past experiences (if it ever was).




Your decision to choose based on a coin toss was due to your DNA and past experiences. You also have no control over how the coin lands. There is still no free will.


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
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Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: 4896744]
    #14339889 - 04/23/11 06:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You also have no control over how the coin lands.

That's true, but my point is that my decision in that case is NOT a simple consequence of my experiences.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Offlinezoomfan
doubt 'er
Male

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 505
Loc: eastern Canada
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: NetDiver]
    #14339931 - 04/23/11 06:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Well, the question of whether or not we have free-will is a dualist question to begin with, because it implies an agent somehow separate from the rest of the system.

It still seems to us like we have the ability to make decisions, though, and we have to hold people accountable for their actions. :shrug:




this is the motivation for most people who argue for free will, and with good reason, if it became common opinion that we have no control, people would lose their sense of accountability. its not that the human being has no control its that there isnt an agent independant of the human being which can influence the human being.

the belief that im not responsible for my actions would simply replace the belief that i am responsible for my actions. people like to think that when they think about something and make a decision this mythical agent who they "really are" has made the choice but the fact is the human biocomputer just made a calculation and the easiest way to explain it is to say i made a choice.

this is a case,though, where semantics does matter. for example consciously make the choice to snap your fingers.....dont read further until you do this. after you have done this ask yourself, did you actually have the choice to snap your fingers or was it the fact that i asked you too along with your curiosity etc, which made you think it was a conscious choice?

conscious choice is just a simplified understanding of a very complex process. just like most people are not aware of exactly how the sum is come to when 57483 divided by 76483 is typed int9 a calculator.


--------------------
Thinking is dreaming wake up and enjoy the dream.

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OfflineOwsley2.0
Homo Sapien
Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 47
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: Diploid]
    #14341920 - 04/24/11 02:24 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
You also have no control over how the coin lands.

That's true, but my point is that my decision in that case is NOT a simple consequence of my experiences.




He just told you it is. Where'd you come up with the idea of flipping a coin? This is nothing new, flipping a coin. Past experiences also led you up to that moment and are responsible for the way you feel when you decide to go with the good ole coin toss.

I like the coin toss, givin in to the flow.

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Offline4896744
Small Town Girl
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Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
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Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: Diploid]
    #14343204 - 04/24/11 11:52 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
You also have no control over how the coin lands.

That's true, but my point is that my decision in that case is NOT a simple consequence of my experiences.




The outcome of the event is not STRICTLY due to your past experiences due to the randomness of the coin toss. However, your decision is still a consequence of your past experiences because that is what caused you to choose to base your decision off of a coin flip and to follow through with it. The way the coin lands is not a "decision".


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: 4896744]
    #14343880 - 04/24/11 03:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

your decision is still a consequence of your past experiences

I agree that's true in gross decisions. If someone asks me whether I want to go to church this Sunday, my past experience will have a strong influence on my answer of "no way".

But if someone asks me if I want the chicken or the fish for dinner, how the decision goes is a matter of whim and not preordained or decided for me, IMO.

I believe this is so because of the confounding effects of consciousness. As far as I can tell, my consciousness has genuine free volition. If I were an automaton, then I'd agree with you. But I'm not, so I don't.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offline4896744
Small Town Girl
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Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: Diploid]
    #14343958 - 04/24/11 03:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
your decision is still a consequence of your past experiences

I agree that's true in gross decisions. If someone asks me whether I want to go to church this Sunday, my past experience will have a strong influence on my answer of "no way".

But if someone asks me if I want the chicken or the fish for dinner, how the decision goes is a matter of whim and not preordained or decided for me, IMO.

I believe this is so because of the confounding effects of consciousness. As far as I can tell, my consciousness has genuine free volition. If I were an automaton, then I'd agree with you. But I'm not, so I don't.




It seems we agree for the most part except for some small exceptions that I don't really have a solid case for.

I still think that what you see as "free" will is an illusion, even in the case of what you want for dinner. Let's just agree to disagree for the argument seems to be going nowhere.


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: Silversoul]
    #14359588 - 04/27/11 05:00 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Not really.  There is such a thing as emergence.  Biology and experience come together to create an emergent structure called the self.  The self can be subject to multiple influences and impulses with contradictory choices.  For example, you may crave a piece of chocolate cake, but also be worrying about your weight.  You can either indulge in your immediate desire for the cake, or commit to your diet and abstain.  That is what's called a choice(and I'd argue that the latter is more of a choice than the former).  When our desires do not conflict and we have a clear preference, then there isn't really any will involved.  But when we are faced with a choice between fulfilling one desire or another, then we have to use our willpower, particularly when it comes to choosing between instant gratification(cake) or long-term goals(weight loss).  The very fact that we are able to set long-term goals and fulfill them is all the proof we need of the existence of will(whether you call it "free" or not is little more than a game of semantics).

QED




Nicely stated! :thumbup:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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