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zzantium2999
Shroom Groomer



Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 177
Loc: Toronto Canada
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
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fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed
#14335067 - 04/22/11 08:04 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Let's say I have tten pounds of WBS. What would be the fastest way to colonize it all? So far I've been putting them in pint jars, but that doesn't always work because sometimes a few jars get contams, others just sit and do nothing, and some colonize. Whats the best way to colonize a huge batch of substrate?
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A good friend would bail you out of jail, but your best friend would be the one sitting next to you saying, "damn that was awesome".
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Larrythescaryrex
teardrop on the fire



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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: zzantium2999]
#14335084 - 04/22/11 08:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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with a smaller batch of colonized substrate.
-------------------- RIP Acidic_Sloth Sunset_Mission said: "larry the scary rex verily scary when thoroughly vexed invoke the shadows and dust, cast a hex mercifully massacring memories masterfully relocate from Ur to 8th density and become a cosmic bully mulder and scully couldn't decipher his glyphs invoke the shadows and dust, smoke infernal spliffs" April 24th 2011
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zzantium2999
Shroom Groomer



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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: Larrythescaryrex]
#14335107 - 04/22/11 08:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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yea that part I know. I mean should I pour a little colonized substrate into 100 jars or should i throw it in a Bucket,t or a bag as one big substrate. I want to Make a huge substrate with thee least time. Right now all I have t inoculate with is. Colonized jars of brf sorry I wasn't being specific enough.
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A good friend would bail you out of jail, but your best friend would be the one sitting next to you saying, "damn that was awesome".
Edited by zzantium2999 (04/22/11 08:15 PM)
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Ectius
Werecat Ninjabeast



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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: zzantium2999]
#14335115 - 04/22/11 08:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
zzantium2999 said: pint jars. Whats the best way to colonize a huge batch of substrate?
Quart jars.
You could try filter-patch bags, but I wouldn't recommend it if contaminated jars are a regularity.
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skiddy
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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: Ectius]
#14335130 - 04/22/11 08:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Use a LC
-------------------- PESH : Pinning Transeski : colonizing Orrisa : colonizing Mex a : colonizing You're not a mycologist just because you grow mushrooms.
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steelmonkey
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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: zzantium2999]
#14335131 - 04/22/11 08:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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How much growing experience do you have? no offence but it doesn;t sound like much
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zzantium2999
Shroom Groomer



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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: Ectius]
#14335161 - 04/22/11 08:22 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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not alot. thats why I've only got 28 posts in. so anyways back to the question. Would it be better to colonize as one big substrate, or as many smaller ones? I would probably inoculate by using a uncontaminated jar of brf thats fully colonized
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A good friend would bail you out of jail, but your best friend would be the one sitting next to you saying, "damn that was awesome".
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steelmonkey
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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: zzantium2999]
#14335366 - 04/22/11 08:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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It would take forever to colonize that amount of substrate with one jar of spawn and most likely it would contaminate before it fully colonised if your goal is to get a lot of fruits then you really need more spawn
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m_jacobs
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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: steelmonkey]
#14335512 - 04/22/11 09:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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If your currently having trouble with contams doing jars your problems are only going to get worse with contams doing one LARGE spawn. The problem with doing a single LARGE tube or container all at once is that if you get ONE single contam your WHOLE setup is gone.
It is VERY VERY difficult to keep things completely sterile and contam free. By breaking up the 10lbs of WBS into say 10 Quart jars you limit your risk of losing everything.
I'm assuming your starting with a MS syringe. I would do 3 pint jars 1/2 filled with WBS with 4 inoculation points. Depending on the viability of your spores it will take 3-14 days for them to show signs of growth. Mine have been averaging 3-4 days room temp NO incubator.
Once you get growth bigger about size of a quarter on all 4 sides give them a shake. Once they are 100% colonized do G2G transfer to your quart jars.
I have 6 pint jars that were 100% from MS spore syringe exactly at 12 days. From those I put about 3-4 big tablespoons into my quart jars and those finished off in 8 days. Total of 20days.
My 1st run at doing straight quart jars and MS took 35 days.
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Doc_T
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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: m_jacobs]
#14336002 - 04/22/11 11:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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^^^ that's the answer.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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fngbronco
Monkey Man



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Posts: 2,877
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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: Doc_T]
#14336357 - 04/23/11 12:23 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Y do u have 4 inoculation points on grains? With grains and ms you shoot and shake. 3 extra holes can introduce contaminants.
OP if you've had a hard time with the grains and have a colonized cake, fruit the cake and make spore prints. Then use the spore prints to make more cakes and a couple jars of grains until you get the grains down. Grains are tough to get down, but once you do you're golden! If you're trying to go bulk it'd take more than 1 cake unless you do like a 2.5qt mini, but even then I'd say fruit it and let the fruits mature for spore prints. If you can take aseptic spore prints you're heading in the right direction to making good grain jars
Best of luck!
-------------------- I challenge you to challenge yourself more! When you feel complacent and ready to hang it up, challenge yourself to get over it! If you fail, don't look at it as you didn't succeed, look at it as you would a rock face you're trying to climb. Stand back, wayyyy back, and look at it and plot another path. If you can't find one, shuffle down the way a little, a little change of scenery or a view from a different angle may give you the insight you need. Anything I state is relayed information from a friend of a friend and should be viewed as completely fictitious. I do not partake in any illegal or grey-area-of-the-law activities, but do have lots of friends who may or may not. -fngbronco Pill Divider Agar Tek
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rustycobwebs
Green mold cultivator

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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: fngbronco]
#14336857 - 04/23/11 02:18 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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If you're using multispore, I wouldn't shake them after shooting, I just use yes 1 injection port and kinda, shoot the CC or 2 of spore solution around in kind of a circle?
It seems to work for me... but I think shaking is a bad idea, might be dead wrong. I shake after injecting LC though, cuz that's already germinated.
You could break up colonized cakes and spawn that to the jars....
-------------------- and let it be so Praise Psilocybe
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shroomiin
unprofound


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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: rustycobwebs]
#14337229 - 04/23/11 06:42 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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quart jars man, do it right they should all colonize without contam..
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m_jacobs
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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: fngbronco]
#14337495 - 04/23/11 08:54 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
fngbronco said: Y do u have 4 inoculation points on grains? With grains and ms you shoot and shake. 3 extra holes can introduce contaminants.
His primary objective is speed on colonizing 10 lbs of WBS. 4 inoculation points with 1/4cc MS shots into pint or quart jar will colonize faster then 1 inoculation point with 1cc MS shot. Then he can do G2G or GLC to Quarts.
All inoculation holes are taped (or self healed) after inoculations. Inoculation holes are NOT left opened or unfiltered when doing Grain. When doing Grain you must have a GE HOLE that is filtered! Inoculation points are left opened only if you are doing some type of CAKE tek with a verm layer.
Also you DO NOT shake after inoculation with MS shots. You only shake if your using any type of LC with live mycelium. The reason is if you shake you make it harder for the initial mating process of germinated spores.
Quote:
shroomiin said: quart jars man, do it right they should all colonize without contam..
The reason I decided to do pint jars but only 1/3 to 1/2 full is it will become 100% colonized faster. Once the tiny 1/3 pint jar is fully colonized he can do G2G or make a GLC and noc up quart jars. You ever notice how quickly your jars go to 100% after you do the initial shake at 20-30%? Its using the same idea. You take already colonized grains and using them at MANY MANY different inoculation points inside of a quart jar. **Again his primary goal was SPEED.
Edited by m_jacobs (04/23/11 09:03 AM)
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fngbronco
Monkey Man



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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: m_jacobs]
#14337617 - 04/23/11 09:53 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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You can put the needle in and spray the spores in a circular motion with a jar that's 1/2 full. That's why the 4 holes don't make sense to me
-------------------- I challenge you to challenge yourself more! When you feel complacent and ready to hang it up, challenge yourself to get over it! If you fail, don't look at it as you didn't succeed, look at it as you would a rock face you're trying to climb. Stand back, wayyyy back, and look at it and plot another path. If you can't find one, shuffle down the way a little, a little change of scenery or a view from a different angle may give you the insight you need. Anything I state is relayed information from a friend of a friend and should be viewed as completely fictitious. I do not partake in any illegal or grey-area-of-the-law activities, but do have lots of friends who may or may not. -fngbronco Pill Divider Agar Tek
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Fungal growth
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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: m_jacobs]
#14337796 - 04/23/11 10:54 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
m_jacobs said: The reason I decided to do pint jars but only 1/3 to 1/2 full is it will become 100% colonized faster. Once the tiny 1/3 pint jar is fully colonized he can do G2G or make a GLC and noc up quart jars. You ever notice how quickly your jars go to 100% after you do the initial shake at 20-30%? Its using the same idea. You take already colonized grains and using them at MANY MANY different inoculation points inside of a quart jar. **Again his primary goal was SPEED.
good advice imo as i do that too. often when doing ms, i will use half-pints (the regular mouth are better for this) filled halfway. this will be colonized much faster than an entire qt, and then i g2g to 2-4 qt jars per half pint jar.
Edited by Fungal growth (04/23/11 10:55 AM)
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m_jacobs
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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: fngbronco]
#14337904 - 04/23/11 11:23 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
fngbronco said: You can put the needle in and spray the spores in a circular motion with a jar that's 1/2 full. That's why the 4 holes don't make sense to me
This works perfectly well too. I have tried this method and the jars worked just as well as the 4 holes.
It really breaks down to personal preference. I do all my inoculations inside of a glove box. So I just found it easier for me to squirt 1/4cc 4x then it was to try and do a single squirt while rotating the jar. Also I don't like the idea of injecting through the GE hole. That is just my own paranoia.
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afrosheen
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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: m_jacobs]
#14338010 - 04/23/11 11:46 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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No point in 4 inoculation holes with grains, even when doing MS. You shoot and shake regardless. Don't worry about the spores finding sex mates, they already did it in the syringe.
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: zzantium2999]
#14338073 - 04/23/11 11:57 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
zzantium2999 said: Let's say I have tten pounds of WBS. What would be the fastest way to colonize it all?
This is what you need: http://forums.mycotopia.net/spawning-teks/30494-tv-guide-colonizing-quart-jar-three-days.html#post467474
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Quick WBS Prep
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fngbronco
Monkey Man



Registered: 09/26/10
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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: FooMan]
#14338868 - 04/23/11 02:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Biggest issue with 4 holes is you're drawing and and exposing the needle to 4x the contaminants. I use a section of SFD for me GE, and a RTV'd hole for my needle so I know I'm sealed on the lid. It is all personal, but you open yourself up to failure (contamination) putting a needle in the same jar 4 times.
-------------------- I challenge you to challenge yourself more! When you feel complacent and ready to hang it up, challenge yourself to get over it! If you fail, don't look at it as you didn't succeed, look at it as you would a rock face you're trying to climb. Stand back, wayyyy back, and look at it and plot another path. If you can't find one, shuffle down the way a little, a little change of scenery or a view from a different angle may give you the insight you need. Anything I state is relayed information from a friend of a friend and should be viewed as completely fictitious. I do not partake in any illegal or grey-area-of-the-law activities, but do have lots of friends who may or may not. -fngbronco Pill Divider Agar Tek
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just me
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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: fngbronco]
#14340836 - 04/23/11 09:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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filter patch bags
2 lbs in each bag 5 bags. each bag 12-25cc of LC youll have 10lbs of wbs colonized in a week
if your LC is good hope you have a pressure cooker
--------------------
  -------------------------------------------------- -pEaCeLoVeGoDbLeSs- "The Downfall of Mankind; is Believing He Has Limitations."
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Mawkiie42o
SleepWalker42o


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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: just me]
#14380408 - 04/30/11 11:56 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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^^ I just did that and it's not going so hot. I had 10 bags and 4 of them got all mushy at the bottom and there are no signs of any colonization =[.
But that's not my point.
I agree this is the best way to do it too. Just make sure you keep an eye on them and take your time. If rye berries wern't 5 times more expensive I would of rather gone with that.
** Also would 10cc be too little for 4 quart bags? As I'ved only put 2.5cc in each quart jar before. [ Sorry to semi-jack ]
-------------------- Living for what you'll die for.
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sporesmores420
SillyPsybin



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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: Mawkiie42o]
#14382255 - 05/01/11 11:58 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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do g2g transfers. Im trying to get 40 in 3 weeks.
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just me
Friend



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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: Mawkiie42o]
#14384915 - 05/01/11 08:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mawkiie42o said: ^^ I just did that and it's not going so hot. I had 10 bags and 4 of them got all mushy at the bottom and there are no signs of any colonization =[.
But that's not my point.
I agree this is the best way to do it too. Just make sure you keep an eye on them and take your time. If rye berries wern't 5 times more expensive I would of rather gone with that.
** Also would 10cc be too little for 4 quart bags? As I'ved only put 2.5cc in each quart jar before. [ Sorry to semi-jack ]
i think everyone hates this way ive had good luck with it so i dont yet
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  -------------------------------------------------- -pEaCeLoVeGoDbLeSs- "The Downfall of Mankind; is Believing He Has Limitations."
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zzantium2999
Shroom Groomer



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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: sporesmores420]
#14385891 - 05/01/11 10:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I ended up buying 10 pounds of wild bird seed. Haven't jarred it all up yet. What I'm doing is G@G transferred into 1 litre mason jars.I put the WBS into simmering water for about 30 Min's until it sucked up almost all the water. Then I'll put the jars in a pressure cooker for an hour. After the jars cool down to just above room temperature (25c-35c,) I'll inoculate with some colonized BRF jars. Probably use 3 tablespoons of colonized BRF per 1 litre jar. I'll keep that in my colonizing chamber
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A good friend would bail you out of jail, but your best friend would be the one sitting next to you saying, "damn that was awesome".
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just me
Friend



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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: zzantium2999]
#14385917 - 05/01/11 10:58 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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are you rinsing? pre? post?
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  -------------------------------------------------- -pEaCeLoVeGoDbLeSs- "The Downfall of Mankind; is Believing He Has Limitations."
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zzantium2999
Shroom Groomer



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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: just me]
#14386490 - 05/02/11 01:27 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I didn't think of that. I cooked the WBS today but will be inoculating tomorrow. I think I'll rinse it out with warm water. Any other suggestions before I go ahead with it?
--------------------
A good friend would bail you out of jail, but your best friend would be the one sitting next to you saying, "damn that was awesome".
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Fungal growth
Lootinint



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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: zzantium2999]
#14387464 - 05/02/11 08:48 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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hmmhrm... i dunno... wbs needs rinsed BEFORE you cook it up. we have to rinse off any antifungals or other crap that may have gotten on it, it's not made for us to eat so there's no real controls over quality. but, depending on how clean it is, it might still work, but i'd be cooking up more grain.
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zzantium2999
Shroom Groomer



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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: Fungal growth]
#14389306 - 05/02/11 03:33 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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wouldn't an antifungal be killed while PC'ing?
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A good friend would bail you out of jail, but your best friend would be the one sitting next to you saying, "damn that was awesome".
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steelmonkey
Homejigger



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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: zzantium2999]
#14389537 - 05/02/11 04:09 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Theres nothing to kill its a chemical
That would be like saying if I pc'd this Pine-Sol would it kill it
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UnnamedGrower
The AMUiest



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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: just me]
#14389608 - 05/02/11 04:19 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
just me said: filter patch bags
2 lbs in each bag 5 bags. each bag 12-25cc of LC youll have 10lbs of wbs colonized in a week
if your LC is good hope you have a pressure cooker
I know a toronto outlet to get spawn bags and other myco supplies if you want to for details
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Ectius
Werecat Ninjabeast



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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: zzantium2999]
#14390650 - 05/02/11 07:21 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Sporicides are just that: They prevent spore germination. In professional mold restoration industries, extra cleaning steps are needed because simply spraying things with anti-mold chems won't kill active growth.
That said, you can inoculate treated grain as long as you're using g2g, agar, or an lc.
Edited by Ectius (05/02/11 07:23 PM)
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shroomiin
unprofound


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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: Ectius]
#14393086 - 05/03/11 06:33 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I would pressure cook for the reccommended 90min instead of an hour.
Also, if you are making more wbs i would rinse, soak it overnight, then maybe a 10 min simmer or no simmer at all for that matter.
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m_jacobs
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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: shroomiin]
#14394770 - 05/03/11 02:39 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I would definitely simmer. I've done a few batches where I did not simmer, but soaked in warm / hot water for 24 hours. Then i've also done the "simmer" method. The simmer method definitely lead to faster/stronger mycelium growth.
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shroomiin
unprofound


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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: m_jacobs]
#14394919 - 05/03/11 03:14 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I do a little of both. Soak for 12-16 hours, simmer for 8 to 12 minutes...works perfect for me every time.
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UnnamedGrower
The AMUiest



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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: shroomiin]
#14394951 - 05/03/11 03:21 PM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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I just pour boiling water on the WBS and let that sit an hour then spread on newspaper till I get the right moisture. Works everytime. I go for the KISS of shrooming
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just me
Friend



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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: UnnamedGrower]
#14398964 - 05/04/11 09:11 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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unnamed i prepping grain for awhile by just pouring boiling water line your bucket with a paint strainer, pour the boiling water, let sit desired time, hang the paint strainer up to drain
but something about the soak and simmer that just makes perfect grain
i rinse pre soak. till the water is crystal clear. add some coffee let soak overnight...or however long i want then simmer with water barely covering the grain rinse again, only if the grain feels shitty(slimy, sticky)
sometimes add straight coffee grounds to the grain for myc growth explosion.
but i think this leads to higher contaminate chances
--------------------
  -------------------------------------------------- -pEaCeLoVeGoDbLeSs- "The Downfall of Mankind; is Believing He Has Limitations."
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p_walter
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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: just me]
#14399422 - 05/04/11 11:12 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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Coffee lowers the pH of your substrate, which makes it more suitable for contam growth. Add 1/2 teaspoon of hydrated lime (raises pH) and 1 teaspoon of gypsum (buffers pH so it doesn't rapidly swing back down) per gallon of water when you soak your grains.
Edit: I will add, though, that mushroom mycelium does prefer a slightly acidic environment (pH of 5.5-6), so it will grow best at that pH - it's just that contams also prefer acidic environments. Mushroom mycelium happens to be more tolerant of basic environments, so it will still grow, just not quite as fast. It's a trade-off, really; faster growth vs less risk of contams. If you are confidant in your sterile procedure for however you inoculate your grain jars (LC through self-healing hole, etc), then by all means, go crazy
-------------------- Coaster said: so i got free drug coupons witch u floozies refer to as "money"....
Edited by p_walter (05/04/11 11:27 AM)
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Re: fastest way to colonize ten pounds wild bird seed [Re: p_walter]
#14399466 - 05/04/11 11:24 AM (12 years, 8 months ago) |
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nice i like the aggressive colonization with the coffee stabilizing it a little bit without inhibiting growth sounds remembering remembering remembering could probably get away with just gypsum
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  -------------------------------------------------- -pEaCeLoVeGoDbLeSs- "The Downfall of Mankind; is Believing He Has Limitations."
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