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psilyguy


Registered: 12/03/08
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Re: Arguments to destroy a religious person in a debate? [Re: psilyguy]
#14331429 - 04/22/11 01:56 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I guess my argument is about one definition of God. If you have a different definition of god than Omnipotent, Benevolent, Supreme Creator of Everything That Exists, what is your definition and most importantly why is he worth worshiping?
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Reppin501
The Peoples Champ



Registered: 04/21/11
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Re: Arguments to destroy a religious person in a debate? [Re: psilyguy]
#14331433 - 04/22/11 01:58 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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God has told how it would unfold, I suppose he "could" destroy all evil and/or the Devil in theory, but in this instance we dont have to theorise because its been told. First in the Bible, then by Jesus himself, how it will will be, how it will end, and what to expect. Destroying evil from its inception wasnt part of the plan.
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masterfluffypants
The Psilocybin Psychospawn



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Re: Arguments to destroy a religious person in a debate? [Re: psilyguy]
#14331462 - 04/22/11 02:04 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
masterfluffypants said: Understandable. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. But you also have to think of it like if you had an infestation of ants in your house. You will kill the ants because they are invading your house. But would you consider that "evil"? Its similar to God erasing certain people out of mankind because when they act in a way that causes extreme measures to be taken, they need to be eradicated for the greater good of man. Just like you would eradicate the ants for the greater good of your house. You can allow these ants to have "free-will" in your house, but then the problem will just spread. Think of it in that context.
Quote:
psilyguy said: I guess my argument is about one definition of God. If you have a different definition of god than Omnipotent, Benevolent, Supreme Creator of Everything That Exists, what is your definition and most importantly why is he worth worshiping?
Everybody will have different views of God, especially people who believe in God. Polls show that there are hundreds of different versions of god that people believe in. The truth is nobody can really say he is "this way" because the bible is written in code. The Bible also only tells a tiny bit about everything. The bible does not mention other galaxies and planets, but does hint to the idea of extra terrestrial beings and extraordinary life sequences. And there is text that was taken out of the bible like the dead sea scrolls. And you also have to think about ancient carvings of biblical entities and extra terrestrial ideas. There is only so much we really know and can find out. We are but mere specs of dust in a vast array of knowledge.
-------------------- "You ever have that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?" "Mmm...All the time. It's called mescaline, it's the only way to fly."
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psilyguy


Registered: 12/03/08
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Re: Arguments to destroy a religious person in a debate? [Re: masterfluffypants]
#14331473 - 04/22/11 02:06 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
masterfluffypants said: Understandable. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. But you also have to think of it like if you had an infestation of ants in your house. You will kill the ants because they are invading your house. But would you consider that "evil"? Its similar to God erasing certain people out of mankind because when they act in a way that causes extreme measures to be taken, they need to be eradicated for the greater good of man. Just like you would eradicate the ants for the greater good of your house. You can allow these ants to have "free-will" in your house, but then the problem will just spread. Think of it in that context.
Yay, good points. Hard to argue against it, maybe cause i'm getting tired, but it doesn't provide a reason for worship. So why should we worship him then? What you say really makes a lot of sense if we are really talking about the greater good of mankind, which would probably include the continuity of the species more than anything else. If that is really the case though then why places like sodom and gomorrah instead of the people with the knowledge and intent to create nuclear bombs? God works in mysterious ways? Even so, why worship him?
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Reppin501
The Peoples Champ



Registered: 04/21/11
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Re: Arguments to destroy a religious person in a debate? [Re: psilyguy]
#14331487 - 04/22/11 02:08 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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If you want to get right down to it, God created Satan initially and so you could say God created evil, your context is grossly flawed, but you could say that.
"Worthy" of worship...its your task to figure that out. I have my reasons but they may not be yours, its a personal relationship between each of us and him.
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psilyguy


Registered: 12/03/08
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Re: Arguments to destroy a religious person in a debate? [Re: Reppin501]
#14331501 - 04/22/11 02:12 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Reppin501 said: God has told how it would unfold, I suppose he "could" destroy all evil and/or the Devil in theory, but in this instance we dont have to theorise because its been told. First in the Bible, then by Jesus himself, how it will will be, how it will end, and what to expect. Destroying evil from its inception wasnt part of the plan.
Bible was written and edited by man. This also means no one knows with certainty what exactly Jesus told, let alone that he existed at all.
Also, if God knows how it will unfold then everything has a predetermined destiny. This destiny being determined by the creator, who willingly and knowingly created a universe full of evil and misery. Furthermore, with predestiny it makes no difference what I do, because what I do has already been told.
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Reppin501
The Peoples Champ



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Re: Arguments to destroy a religious person in a debate? [Re: psilyguy]
#14331507 - 04/22/11 02:14 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Because he loves you, and he wants to care for you. Theres no adjective that can describe the presence of God. I know it sounds GAY, but its true, no other way to put it.
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shallowbastard
the friendly puppet


Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 1,539
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Re: Arguments to destroy a religious person in a debate? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
#14331509 - 04/22/11 02:16 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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the answer is sex. spit some harcore game over a religious chick, and after you've rub your dicks on her and fingered fucked her a little, everything will be just fine.
and i don't mean no offense eh, i speak from personal experience.
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psilyguy


Registered: 12/03/08
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Re: Arguments to destroy a religious person in a debate? [Re: Reppin501]
#14331520 - 04/22/11 02:19 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Reppin501 said: If you want to get right down to it, God created Satan initially and so you could say God created evil, your context is grossly flawed, but you could say that.
Context is not flawed. God is either the supreme creator or he is not. There is no gray area in this regard.
Quote:
"Worthy" of worship...its your task to figure that out. I have my reasons but they may not be yours, its a personal relationship between each of us and him.
By worthy of worship I really meant, why call him God at all? But either way, if it is meant to be a personal thing i'm down with that. But let it be a personal thing and please don't monetarily support oppressive organizations that try to force their religious beliefs on others.
OP take notes on this debate and how I've gone wrong. Then tell me if you find out how to destroy a religious person in a debate. I give up lol, night night.
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Reppin501
The Peoples Champ



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Re: Arguments to destroy a religious person in a debate? [Re: psilyguy]
#14331523 - 04/22/11 02:21 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Have you considered that everyone doesnt live n a universe of evil and misery? I dont live that way, I acknowledge its there but I choose to see the beautiful things in life. Part of spiritual awakening is a change in perspective, a paradigm shift so to speak.
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masterfluffypants
The Psilocybin Psychospawn



Registered: 10/31/10
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Re: Arguments to destroy a religious person in a debate? [Re: Reppin501]
#14331524 - 04/22/11 02:21 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
psilyguy said:
Quote:
masterfluffypants said: Understandable. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. But you also have to think of it like if you had an infestation of ants in your house. You will kill the ants because they are invading your house. But would you consider that "evil"? Its similar to God erasing certain people out of mankind because when they act in a way that causes extreme measures to be taken, they need to be eradicated for the greater good of man. Just like you would eradicate the ants for the greater good of your house. You can allow these ants to have "free-will" in your house, but then the problem will just spread. Think of it in that context.
Yay, good points. Hard to argue against it, maybe cause i'm getting tired, but it doesn't provide a reason for worship. So why should we worship him then? What you say really makes a lot of sense if we are really talking about the greater good of mankind, which would probably include the continuity of the species more than anything else. If that is really the case though then why places like sodom and gomorrah instead of the people with the knowledge and intent to create nuclear bombs? God works in mysterious ways? Even so, why worship him?
Quote:
Reppin501 said: If you want to get right down to it, God created Satan initially and so you could say God created evil, your context is grossly flawed, but you could say that.
"Worthy" of worship...its your task to figure that out. I have my reasons but they may not be yours, its a personal relationship between each of us and him.
^ This.
You should worship him because you feel in your heart that its the right thing to do. Maybe some journey or experience has or will happen to humble someone and make them turn to God, but that is all a matter of personal beliefs and the willingness to put faith into him. You dont "have" to do anything, and thats the beauty of free will. But when you put faith into him, I believe good things can come out of it. I for one am truly blessed. I have been put into a life filled with good vibrations and great people. This could be the way the dice was rolled for me. Like the coincidence of being born into a rich family or a poor family. But the way my life is going I feel its only right that I put my faith into "the creator". I had some psychedelic experiences that brought me much closer to God and allowed me to see the light of the world. I believe that there is truth to EVERYTHING. Evolution. God. Other religions and philosophies that people will argue about such as Taoism and Buddhism. There is a much bigger picture that we play huge roles in. Small compared to the vastness of the so called "master plan", but huge in our existence. Everything i just said is based solely on faith, and i cant really convince anyone to turn to god because that is a choice up to you based on your free will. People tend to separate God and science when in reality, God is science. Everything is beautiful. Its mankind that has corrupted and tainted the world. The devil plays a major role in it, but we are responsible for the pollution and nuclear crises of the world. The best we can do is live our lives to the fullest and be good souls to our brothers and sisters of the world.
-------------------- "You ever have that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?" "Mmm...All the time. It's called mescaline, it's the only way to fly."
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ManianFH
living in perverty


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Re: Arguments to destroy a religious person in a debate? [Re: masterfluffypants]
#14331627 - 04/22/11 03:21 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I like this last post. We humans are enemies of ourselves, because we choose to continue an argument that has proven to be the cause of all the misery we claim to want to prevent: I'm right and you're an idiot.
Outside of my consciousness nothing exists, because I cease to exist. All that I perceive to be reality are simply occurrences in a small window of time that I call the human experience. Even time and space are a product of my conscious understanding. I know that through my human experience the best I can do is to try and live connected with God, and use my understanding of God to appreciate this existence.
People can call it Christianity, Buddhism, Atheism, but its all the same. Its a human attempt in the product of individual consciousness to connect with something that we feel is beyond our capacity as humans. Were all connected, and connected with God. There is no need to argue, because were arguing against ourselves, our conscious perceptions, and more deeply, God.
I choose to live connected with God, and that inspires me to try love and appreciate it all.
-------------------- notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... " ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."
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Apollyphelion
Dungeon Master/Princess(1009)


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Re: Arguments to destroy a religious person in a debate? [Re: ManianFH] 1
#14331712 - 04/22/11 04:29 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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I don't go out of my way to mock religious beliefs, however any time they are looking for a fight, or they mock me, I will try to give them hell.
First off all, I can't respect a silly faith that insists I'm going to hell; If you believe in the bible, I am going to suffer for all of enternity, Well fuck you, plain and simple. And I hate how they "feel sorry for you". Honestly, if you REALLY REALLY believe I am going to hell, I don't think I could be your friend. I think it is just culturally accepted to "respect" religion, but when it comes down to brass tacks, a lot of what is in the bible is just ancient bullshit that only means what you want it to mean. All the bible is is a playground to justify the craziest bullshit you can think off. It is a way for some to feel superior and smug. Any good that can be accomplished with the bible can be accomplished without.
I think religion is a sure fire way to teach ignorance, hatred, misunderstanding, an I don't give a fuck about science attitude--It holds unrealistic standards to reality, and teaches it is okay to accept things without fact. I personally think the world would be a better place with out religion. I really hope it dies out.
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"I'm looking at you looking at it" SUBSCRIBE TO MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL PLEASE! www.youtube.com/apollyphelion Creator of the World's Worst Comic Book
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LadyLittleZeppelin
Stoner



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Re: Arguments to destroy a religious person in a debate? [Re: Apollyphelion]
#14333439 - 04/22/11 01:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Apollyphelion said: I don't go out of my way to mock religious beliefs, however any time they are looking for a fight, or they mock me, I will try to give them hell.
First off all, I can't respect a silly faith that insists I'm going to hell; If you believe in the bible, I am going to suffer for all of enternity, Well fuck you, plain and simple. And I hate how they "feel sorry for you". Honestly, if you REALLY REALLY believe I am going to hell, I don't think I could be your friend. I think it is just culturally accepted to "respect" religion, but when it comes down to brass tacks, a lot of what is in the bible is just ancient bullshit that only means what you want it to mean. All the bible is is a playground to justify the craziest bullshit you can think off. It is a way for some to feel superior and smug. Any good that can be accomplished with the bible can be accomplished without.
I think religion is a sure fire way to teach ignorance, hatred, misunderstanding, an I don't give a fuck about science attitude--It holds unrealistic standards to reality, and teaches it is okay to accept things without fact. I personally think the world would be a better place with out religion. I really hope it dies out.
feeling superior over someone else is a sin and not accepted by God. No one is perfect or better than anyone else and the Bible makes that clear, you have to read it for yourself. Many christians haven't even picked up a bible aside from church They make the rest of us look bad.
-------------------- SHROOMS MAKE YOU GAY ~ Crystal G said: its cuzzzzzz i giiiiiive a meeeeean blooooowjjjobbbb.
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masterfluffypants
The Psilocybin Psychospawn



Registered: 10/31/10
Posts: 3,312
Loc: Electric Ladyland
Last seen: 5 years, 4 months
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Re: Arguments to destroy a religious person in a debate? [Re: LadyLittleZeppelin]
#14333454 - 04/22/11 01:39 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
LadyLittleZeppelin said:
Quote:
Apollyphelion said: I don't go out of my way to mock religious beliefs, however any time they are looking for a fight, or they mock me, I will try to give them hell.
First off all, I can't respect a silly faith that insists I'm going to hell; If you believe in the bible, I am going to suffer for all of enternity, Well fuck you, plain and simple. And I hate how they "feel sorry for you". Honestly, if you REALLY REALLY believe I am going to hell, I don't think I could be your friend. I think it is just culturally accepted to "respect" religion, but when it comes down to brass tacks, a lot of what is in the bible is just ancient bullshit that only means what you want it to mean. All the bible is is a playground to justify the craziest bullshit you can think off. It is a way for some to feel superior and smug. Any good that can be accomplished with the bible can be accomplished without.
I think religion is a sure fire way to teach ignorance, hatred, misunderstanding, an I don't give a fuck about science attitude--It holds unrealistic standards to reality, and teaches it is okay to accept things without fact. I personally think the world would be a better place with out religion. I really hope it dies out.
feeling superior over someone else is a sin and not accepted by God. No one is perfect or better than anyone else and the Bible makes that clear, you have to read it for yourself. Many christians haven't even picked up a bible aside from church They make the rest of us look bad.
Yeah well it says in the bible that just because a christian goes to church doesnt mean he is really a "christian". It says in the time of tribulation only very few will be selected to walk with the lord eternally. There are people who go to church and claim theyre righteous, then as soon as service ends, they go and cheat on their wife with their neighbor.
-------------------- "You ever have that feeling where you're not sure if you're awake or still dreaming?" "Mmm...All the time. It's called mescaline, it's the only way to fly."
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*



Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Re: Arguments to destroy a religious person in a debate? [Re: psilyguy]
#14333464 - 04/22/11 01:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
psilyguy said:
Quote:
Reppin501 said: God has told how it would unfold, I suppose he "could" destroy all evil and/or the Devil in theory, but in this instance we dont have to theorise because its been told. First in the Bible, then by Jesus himself, how it will will be, how it will end, and what to expect. Destroying evil from its inception wasnt part of the plan.
Bible was written and edited by man. This also means no one knows with certainty what exactly Jesus told, let alone that he existed at all.
Also, if God knows how it will unfold then everything has a predetermined destiny. This destiny being determined by the creator, who willingly and knowingly created a universe full of evil and misery. Furthermore, with predestiny it makes no difference what I do, because what I do has already been told.
When the dead sea scrolls were discovered only around 20% of the writings were ever recovered, there would have benn edits en masse to make a book out of the small part of the original work.
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*



Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Re: Arguments to destroy a religious person in a debate? [Re: Reppin501]
#14333496 - 04/22/11 01:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Reppin501 said: First and foremost "Hello, hope all is well with you". I hope you can pardon my interjection, but wouldn't it make more sense to actually study the issue for yourself, based on what you find formulate your own opinion, then simply share your thoughts? As opposed to “believing” in something blindly, with no real understanding for why, and just repeating someone elses talking points? Actually that sounds alot like the perception of the people you're attempting to mock...No?
FYI, Dinosaur references are debatable, there is a passage in particular that could be interpreted to refer to Dinosaurs, Im just too lazy to look it up right now...just sayin.
I have, although not extensively I have plenty of arguments and know of more then a few contradictions religious people dont notice or care to.
Your belief system is no more then a reiteration of the Egyptian polytheistic tale of creation
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Arguments to destroy a religious person in a debate? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
#14333569 - 04/22/11 01:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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If you're debating a religious person, I see basically two possibilities:
1. They're a fundamentalist, in which case trying to argue with them will be like banging your head against a brick wall.
2. They're actually more thoughtful and reflective than you thought, and have a more sophisticated interpretation of their religion than you expected.
I suppose there's a middle ground between the two that would be worth arguing with, but basically I think you first need to gauge where they're at before trying to argue with them.
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*



Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Re: Arguments to destroy a religious person in a debate? [Re: psilyguy]
#14333626 - 04/22/11 02:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Reppin501 said: Because he loves you, and he wants to care for you. Theres no adjective that can describe the presence of God. I know it sounds GAY, but its true, no other way to put it.
But there is a area in the brain responsible for the god experience, and its quite easily activated with the use of a pulsating electromagnet placed over that area of the brain, many people, unbelievers and believers alike reported mystical experiences when the magnet was activated.
Quote:
psilyguy said:
Quote:
Reppin501 said: If you want to get right down to it, God created Satan initially and so you could say God created evil, your context is grossly flawed, but you could say that.
Context is not flawed. God is either the supreme creator or he is not. There is no gray area in this regard.
Quote:
"Worthy" of worship...its your task to figure that out. I have my reasons but they may not be yours, its a personal relationship between each of us and him.
By worthy of worship I really meant, why call him God at all? But either way, if it is meant to be a personal thing i'm down with that. But let it be a personal thing and please don't monetarily support oppressive organizations that try to force their religious beliefs on others.
OP take notes on this debate and how I've gone wrong. Then tell me if you find out how to destroy a religious person in a debate. I give up lol, night night.
He did exactly what I would figured he would do, which is change the subject whenever he was put on the spot, Im surprised he hasn't called out on faith yet.
Edited by Bodhi of Ankou (04/22/11 03:10 PM)
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Reppin501
The Peoples Champ



Registered: 04/21/11
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Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: Arguments to destroy a religious person in a debate? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
#14333918 - 04/22/11 03:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
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First off...where was I "on the spot", secondly how did I change the subject? Look before this progresses I feel like it would only be fair for me to say directly, you dont want this with me, in reading this thread its pretty obvious you arent very educated on the issue, and if you wanna make it a borderline flame war/debate Ill beat you soundly. Dont hear what Im not saying, there are lots of people smarter and more schooled on this issue than I am, but you arent one of them. I recognize Im new and I dont really wanna seem like a prick, but I feel like you're trying to insult my intelligence as opposed to discussing the issue. No disrespect breh, just being honest in hopes of avoiding a conflict. If I got off couse please feel free to ask a follow up, and Ill try to clarify.
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