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Offlinesynapz
pee on flowing lava = fail
Male

Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 80
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: DieCommie]
    #14328304 - 04/21/11 03:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.


 

Who is to say you only chose to decide NOT to decide because the choice of choosing  to decide,

was

in fact

not available?

(almost had me, I was like "wait a second here?!")


--------------------

Oh Snapz

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Offline4896744
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Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: synapz]
    #14328317 - 04/21/11 03:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

synapz said:
Quote:

If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.


 

Who is to say you only chose to decide NOT to decide because the choice of choosing  to decide,

was

in fact

not available?

(almost had me, I was like "wait a second here?!")




Ya

its cool

to post like you

are in

a

stimulant

induced psychosis.


--------------------
Live your Life! :heart:

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Offlinesynapz
pee on flowing lava = fail
Male

Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 80
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: 4896744]
    #14328509 - 04/21/11 04:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Ya

its cool

to post like you

are in

a

stimulant

induced psychosis.




I find it helps me be clear. I would recommend it to everyone really. I find it lets me be able to separate my thoughts more clearly as I write. It puts more "feel" into the words, less static of mind.


--------------------

Oh Snapz

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: synapz]
    #14328563 - 04/21/11 04:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

synapz said:
I find it helps me be clear.




I think the audience would be a better judge of that (rather than the author).

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Offlinesynapz
pee on flowing lava = fail
Male

Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 80
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: DieCommie]
    #14328873 - 04/21/11 05:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


I think the audience would be a better judge of that (rather than the author).




How do you figure, mate?

I find it helps me be clearer. That's a fact of the reality of my direct experience.

If you don't get it or understand it, the fuck do I care? I can't fix stupid. I can't make myself stupid so I can be understood by stupid people. I am smart and I am only interested in smart people and smart conversations.


--------------------

Oh Snapz

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: synapz]
    #14330004 - 04/21/11 08:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

we have a limited number of choices available to us in any given situation... and we choose whatever the fuck we think works in our favor...fucking "free will" never comes into play

I think that would be a valid argument if consciousness didn't exist.

But it does exist and what give it rise isn't known. Maybe it's a deterministic emergent property of matter, or maybe it's genuine original volition.

It may be that consciousness/volition "just happens" when a system become sufficiently complex for it to emerge. And HOW consciousness/volition happens may be a permanently unknowable mechanism of nature.

There is precedent for this.

As far as we can tell, there is no cause of nuclear decay. It "just happens" with a precise probability. According to the currently-available evidence, HOW decay happens is a permanently unknowable mechanism of nature.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,432
Loc: Under the C
Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: Diploid]
    #14330029 - 04/21/11 08:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

HOW decay happens is a permanently unknowable mechanism of nature.




Something about sugar and bacteria...


--------------------

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Offlinesynapz
pee on flowing lava = fail
Male

Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 80
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: Diploid]
    #14330082 - 04/21/11 09:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I think that would be a valid argument if consciousness didn't exist.





But it does exist and what give it rise isn't known. Maybe it's a deterministic emergent property of matter, or maybe it's genuine original volition.

It may be that consciousness/volition "just happens" when a system become sufficiently complex for it to emerge. And HOW consciousness/volition happens may be a permanently unknowable mechanism of nature.

There is precedent for this.

As far as we can tell, there is no cause of nuclear decay. It "just happens" with a precise probability. According to the currently-available evidence, HOW decay happens is a permanently unknowable mechanism of nature.

eh fuck it

was gonna reply to it

(i don't read and then reply, i read as i reply together)

then thought, this shit makes no sense there's nothing to fucking say

_hence_


--------------------

Oh Snapz

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: synapz]
    #14330525 - 04/21/11 10:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

So let me see if I understand.

You were gonna reply, but decided not to. Then you posted noise with zero information entropy anyway.

Is that about it?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineNoteworthy
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Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 5,599
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: synapz]
    #14330542 - 04/21/11 10:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What doesnt make sense about it?


--------------------

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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: DieCommie]
    #14330556 - 04/21/11 10:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.  :smile:




ahah rock on brother!



--------------------

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: Noteworthy]
    #14332138 - 04/22/11 08:08 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Ha, I actually really dislike that song.  But I do like the lyric.

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Offlinesynapz
pee on flowing lava = fail
Male

Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 80
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: Diploid]
    #14332987 - 04/22/11 11:51 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

So let me see if I understand.

You were gonna reply, but decided not to. Then you posted noise with zero information entropy anyway.

Is that about it?




*nods*


--------------------

Oh Snapz

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Offlinesynapz
pee on flowing lava = fail
Male

Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 80
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: Noteworthy]
    #14332989 - 04/22/11 11:52 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

What doesnt make sense about it?




everything


--------------------

Oh Snapz

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Offlinesynapz
pee on flowing lava = fail
Male

Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 80
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: Noteworthy]
    #14332993 - 04/22/11 11:53 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ahah rock on brother!




u missed the part where i gave him a wedgie playa?


--------------------

Oh Snapz

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: synapz]
    #14333335 - 04/22/11 01:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

*nods*

In that case your posts amount to trolling. It's against the rules. Post on topic or take it to the OTD forum where noise is how they debate there.

Consider this your warning.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineLightShedder
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Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 3,026
Loc: AustinDenverLA
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Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: Diploid]
    #14333900 - 04/22/11 03:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Enough crazy events have happened in my life. So unexplainable and so mysterious that by now, even though it is very hard to convince yourself, I accept freewill as an illusion. It's so tough and anytime I tell people this it doesn't cone out even slightly convincing. I won't waste my time detailing too many events to recall all of, I'll just summarize by saying I've had many dreams and waking premonitions that later (sometimes YEARS later) fall into place by events that could not possibly collectively be coincidence. They occur due to specific interactions between humans operating under what we perceive as free will. When you've got something that was shown to you in a vision when you were 16, then you just go about your "free will" life, meeting one person through weird circumstance who introduces you to another person through unusual cicrumstance, who leads you to your lover through incredibly unusual cirmustances that absolutely could not have taken place unless 20 different factors were in place, and you remember almost changing a few of those factors but ultimately "deciding on something else" due to instinct, then you and said lover have a child with the same look and personality as the one you had a vision of 10 years earlier, this child leading you to certain career paths that land you exactly where you always KNEW in your heart you'd be. Doing what you always knew you'd be doing, but by now you see that you didn't have mch of an effect on the unfolding at all. That was one minor summarized exams of countless events I've had turn out Deja vu style.

It's not at all impossible that history could be unfolding according to a very complex "godmind" mathematical formula. Every leaf, animal, all the way down to every cell can be given a code. When applying a pattern inconceivable to humans in our lifetime to all these codes in physical reality, specific events, even what words you choose to use at what times you choose to say them can begin to be mathematically predicted. I call it the godly formula of free-will.

It's impossible to prove either side of this argument but I think everyone has the same opportunity to see correlations in life like I did with the one I described above, I think most people are far too out if tune with their natural self to even recall important dreams and be able to connect the dots. It's not like a dude named god came and directly told me that he runs things personally, it's that too many literally magical things have happened in a manner that is literally hilarious to write off as coincidence.


How about this one.... 5 friends are sitting around a fire tripping on 200 mics of LSD each. They start talking philosophy etc. when one person says "think about the concept of zero. Try to imagine nothingness. What if the universe had never existed what would it be like yada yada yada, so the zero talk evolves into talking about one. The concept of unity oneness yada yada yada anything trippy you can think of about one. Anyways, one of the friends had developed a playlist of music to listen to during the trip. It consisted of literally 1000s of songs playing on randomization mode on his computer. While talking about "one" and how were really all one and not separate, a girl starts singing the three dog night song "one is the loneliest number". We all started laughing because none if us were exactly three dog night fans, but my friend with the music says "that's funny I had a feeling to download that song today and add it to our playlist tonight"( he is by no means a three dog night fan and didn't really give a rats ass about this song) but we say " that's funny, what if it started playing right now?"
That exact moment the current song stopped and there was a few seconds of silence where we all sat there anticipating what was next...,
"(piano thumps dum dum dum dum dum dum dum one is the loneliest number that you'll ever know"
Have any of you ever heard the song? Imagine that piano coming in at an epic moment like this. On a huge timeline, at this precise moment we decided to talk about zero. This led us o to the topic of one at a specific pace so as to land us talking about this song coming on at the EXACT moment that, 1 song out of 1500 randomly cones on the playlist. Add the head full of acid and your either stubborn or you start reconsidering the nature of free-will.


This ole saying applies here, your dog can not conceive and understand the concept of thermodynamics, yet we know it exists thanks to our specific brain. So why is it crazy to think that a concept like the formula of free-will might exist as well?


--------------------

Edited by LightShedder (04/22/11 03:27 PM)

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: LightShedder] * 1
    #14334151 - 04/22/11 04:27 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

tl;dr


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
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Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: Poid]
    #14334376 - 04/22/11 05:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If you could choose to have Free Will or not, which way would you pick?


--------------------

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OfflineLightShedder
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Re: The Idea Of Free Will Is Ludicrous [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14334991 - 04/22/11 07:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I already feel like I do! The concept of free will you speak of, the choice to stick my penis in her butt or her chicken shack, I always am thinking with. I just can't predict where it will lead me to based on my prior experiences. It's hard to notice, but at times I've picked up on how my subconscious mind controls my actions. My subconscious mind is nothing more than an accumulation of my past experiences mixed with whatever my genetics decided to do with my brain chemistry. Although this isn't proof, imagine that your past experiences, everything in history essentially, was a part of the plan. In that plan, you were destined to have the specific brain chemistry in which you do so that you could interact with those events in the prescribed way. Both of those things control our subconscious, genetics and experience. Our subconscious controls our actions. You aren't Making any decision without applying some energy from your brain. Subconscious has got to have a lot to do with it.


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