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skatealex2
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Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents?
#14331460 - 04/22/11 02:03 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Has anyone ever disproved god to their parents here?
I'm not saying I would do it or not but if my dad trys to throw religion on me i wouldn't be afraid to subject him to truth but i also feel bad doing that since he is a bit older than me.
the process of again is enough to make me resent god though 
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: skatealex2]
#14331475 - 04/22/11 02:07 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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you cant disprove god
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shallowbastard
the friendly puppet


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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: skatealex2]
#14331481 - 04/22/11 02:07 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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yeah dude, for sure. your parents tend to believe lots of bullshit sources many times, even yours. if you're eloquent enough, i'm sure you'll leave em thinking about it. my parents are catholics and they know i'm kind of an atheist and they can see why.
your parents will listen to you once you reach a certain age, all you gotta do is be eloquent, be clear and fair and they might understand why.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: skatealex2]
#14331489 - 04/22/11 02:08 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
skatealex2 said: Has anyone ever disproved god to their parents here?
No, if only because I can't. Can't prove his existence, can't disprove it either But more importantly: I don't need to. Why would I want to disprove the existence of the entity on which someone else bases his or her reason of existence? Live and let live.
edit: Congratulations btw! Funny thing; you're birthday this year coincides with the dying day of Christ, and you choose that day to open this topic! I'm appreciative of the irony
Edited by koraks (04/22/11 02:10 AM)
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: shallowbastard]
#14331490 - 04/22/11 02:08 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
shallowbastard said: yeah dude, for sure.
then do it, disprove god
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shallowbastard
the friendly puppet


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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#14331492 - 04/22/11 02:09 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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prisoner why you gotta be like that, you know i can't disapprove god
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: shallowbastard]
#14331494 - 04/22/11 02:11 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
shallowbastard said: prisoner why you gotta be like that, you know i can't disapprove god
can you prove you cant disapprove god?
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#14331499 - 04/22/11 02:12 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ah, nice one, Pris. Here's another one for you: if God is almighty, can He disprove his own existence?
It'd be the ultimate Houdini. Or Godini.
Edited by koraks (04/22/11 02:14 AM)
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shallowbastard
the friendly puppet


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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#14331502 - 04/22/11 02:13 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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why are you so mean to me pris, i just don't understand
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skatealex2
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: koraks]
#14331505 - 04/22/11 02:13 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
koraks said:
Quote:
skatealex2 said: Has anyone ever disproved god to their parents here?
No, if only because I can't. Can't prove his existence, can't disprove it either But more importantly: I don't need to. Why would I want to disprove the existence of the entity on which someone else bases his or her reason of existence? Live and let live.
edit: Congratulations btw! Funny thing; you're birthday this year coincides with the dying day of Christ, and you choose that day to open this topic! I'm appreciative of the irony 
thanks. synchronicities ftw!
Edited by skatealex2 (04/22/11 02:14 AM)
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Synesthetic
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: koraks] 1
#14331528 - 04/22/11 02:22 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Atheists who go out of their way to convert Christians and other religious/spiritual people are every bit as bad...no, actually worse than the people who try to push their religions on others.
Religion and spirituality provides a lot of peace of mind for a lot of people, even though some take it way too far and "pass judgment" (murder) those who disagree with their beliefs.
I mean, how would you react if the thing that brings you the most comfort and sense of inner-peace was threatened or even taken from you?
Live and let live. Besides, atheism is every bit a spiritual statement as any other religion since, like everything else, it's usually an informed decision based on your own observations or your upbringing.
Instead of trying to fight anyone with any spiritual beliefs you should act like an adult and just have a non-hostile, philosophical conversation with your parents so both of you can understand the other better.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: shallowbastard]
#14331529 - 04/22/11 02:23 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
shallowbastard said: why are you so mean to me pris, i just don't understand
had your statement been "you know I cant disprove god", I'd have asked, 'can you prove you cant disprove god' and then you could have said YES! and referred to the proof that you cant disprove god
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Samuel L Jackson
Bad Motherfucker


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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#14331531 - 04/22/11 02:23 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
shallowbastard said: why are you so mean to me pris, i just don't understand
had your statement been "you know I cant disprove god", I'd have asked, 'can you prove you cant disprove god' and then you could have said YES! and referred to the proof that you cant disprove god
youre the only person i know who cites themself as a reference in casual conversation.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: Samuel L Jackson]
#14331539 - 04/22/11 02:26 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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that's because it's cool
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skatealex2
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#14331592 - 04/22/11 02:59 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Synesthetic said: Atheists who go out of their way to convert Christians and other religious/spiritual people are every bit as bad...no, actually worse than the people who try to push their religions on others.
Religion and spirituality provides a lot of peace of mind for a lot of people, even though some take it way too far and "pass judgment" (murder) those who disagree with their beliefs.
I mean, how would you react if the thing that brings you the most comfort and sense of inner-peace was threatened or even taken from you?
Live and let live. Besides, atheism is every bit a spiritual statement as any other religion since, like everything else, it's usually an informed decision based on your own observations or your upbringing.
Instead of trying to fight anyone with any spiritual beliefs you should act like an adult and just have a non-hostile, philosophical conversation with your parents so both of you can understand the other better.
Word man. I definitely agree.
No reason to reign on someone's parade if they don't impose it on you. I think on earth is important.
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ManianFH
living in perverty


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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: Synesthetic]
#14331593 - 04/22/11 02:59 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Some good replies in this thread. OP I think about religious beliefs a lot. There seem to be so many dissenting philosophies and its so easy to get caught up in which is right, or on the more direct path to understanding reality, and which are just plain wrong.
I just try and connect with God through my mind, my heart, and through meditations throughout the day. When I feel connected to God, I am flooded with feelings that inspire me to accept and love others, and to share that love in a way that doesn't hurt anyone else. I am not inspired to pick up the Bible, or the Koran, or any other known set of beliefs, though if I was, so be it. The feelings simply come to me. If someone else is inspired in a different way, it is what the need at that time in their life. No need to argue. Just live connected with God, and that will be enough.
-------------------- notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... " ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."
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Salomon
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: ManianFH]
#14331603 - 04/22/11 03:07 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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you can't prove anything, including, that you can't prove anything.
there can be no absolutes, which itself is not an absolute.
problem?
-------------------- EVERYTHING EVENTUALLY BECOMES A DESERT
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ManianFH
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: Salomon]
#14331642 - 04/22/11 03:28 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I can prove that I have to take a dump.
-------------------- notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... " ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: Salomon]
#14331643 - 04/22/11 03:28 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Salomon said: you can't prove anything, including, that you can't prove anything.
there can be no absolutes, which itself is not an absolute.
 This is Absolut. And it's 100 proof. Problem?
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ManianFH
living in perverty


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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: koraks]
#14331665 - 04/22/11 03:44 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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case closed
-------------------- notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... " ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."
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Salomon
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: ManianFH]
#14331668 - 04/22/11 03:45 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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-------------------- EVERYTHING EVENTUALLY BECOMES A DESERT
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jobe28
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: Salomon]
#14331789 - 04/22/11 05:27 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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There is a god!
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Asante
Mage


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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: skatealex2]
#14331822 - 04/22/11 05:43 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yes its wrong to disprove God because you cant disprove God, its a fallacy.
Not because I think he exists, but theres simply nothing to go on. "God" has no scientific definitions or parameters of functioning. You cant prove or disprove something like that.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Doc_T
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: skatealex2] 1
#14331830 - 04/22/11 05:45 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
skatealex2 said: Has anyone ever disproved god
No.
/thread.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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jobe28
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: koraks]
#14331837 - 04/22/11 05:50 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
koraks said: Here's another one for you: if God is almighty, can He disprove his own existence?
Hahah nice one. That's a pretty trippy thought. Yeah I think, hypothetically, he could.
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koraks
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: jobe28]
#14331894 - 04/22/11 06:20 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm pretty sure He'd turn in to Schrödinger's cat if he did.
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NetDiver
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: koraks]
#14331903 - 04/22/11 06:25 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think you can demonstrate the logical inconsistency of belief in the Christian god very easily, but of course logic is not necessary for faith.
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makaveli8x8
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: jobe28]
#14331912 - 04/22/11 06:27 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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lets say you manage to meet god, and he shows u all this cool shit he can do. You'd still have to prove he was the 'right' god wouldn't u? I mean it could just be satan in disguise or aliens, it could always be aliens. Infact if i was an alien, watching tv for years, planning a first encounter, it would seem pretending to be god would be desirable would it not? The only downside would be explaining why there are so many of you, which is a very interesting question yet easily answered by quoting
Quote:
Matthew 16: 26
No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.
so you see God comparable to money, and like money more can be printed when needed and with different faces
--------------------
  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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funegi
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: makaveli8x8]
#14331967 - 04/22/11 06:56 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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God? people choose wheather to subscribe to those beliefs or not. it's not a matter of fact or fiction but of devotion to ones own self completion(or lack of completion) as to whether one chooses to have faith. And that shit (faith) is the most mind fucking little guy in the mix. like samurai drifter said, there is no logic in faith! and like salomon said, nothingn is absolute, and therefore proveable. GOD i love this site.
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Asante
Mage


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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: funegi]
#14331982 - 04/22/11 07:01 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
God? people choose wheather to subscribe to those beliefs or not.
God means many things to many people. To me God equals the totality of everything.
Quote:
(faith) is the most mind fucking little guy in the mix. like samurai drifter said, there is no logic in faith! and like salomon said, nothingn is absolute, and therefore proveable.
Therefore, there only really IS faith. You put faith in logic as a system towards affecting the world around you.
Logic CANT POSSIBLY BE WRONG! To even THINK that is HERESY! The only thing you should put faith in is SCIENCE, any other faith is DELUSIONAL! Sure sounds like a medieval catholic if you put it that way no? Lets see what they say about the Church of Logic another 1000 years on.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Asante
Mage


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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: Asante]
#14331989 - 04/22/11 07:04 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Oh and as to..

You gotta realize that even ABSOLUT is only 40% and the actual proof in ABSOLUT is only 80/200, so there.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: Asante]
#14331997 - 04/22/11 07:07 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said: Logic CANT POSSIBLY BE WRONG!
Yes, by definition. Its validity is internal, not external. Which means that from the tenets of logic itself, it is impossible to establish the scope of subject matter to which it can be applied. I agree with Samurai_Drifter that if there is a God, then He can only exist if at least part of Him exists outside the realm of logic. The statement that logic can't be wrong is a snake that bites its own tail.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: Asante]
#14331999 - 04/22/11 07:07 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said: You gotta realize that even ABSOLUT is only 40% and the actual proof in ABSOLUT is only 80/200, so there. 
Hey, it's still proof.
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ROFL_my_ WAFFLE


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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: koraks]
#14332017 - 04/22/11 07:13 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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An almighty god doesn't exist in my universe. I'm a buddhist.
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PreparationH
apply daily


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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: ROFL_my_ WAFFLE]
#14332059 - 04/22/11 07:30 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I don't try to convert or disprove god to people but I do remember who the atheists I know are and hold them to a higher regard...
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makaveli8x8
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: Asante]
#14332089 - 04/22/11 07:43 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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logic can obviously be wrong, but its also the foundation of science. Science is based on monkey see monkey do, which as described any monkey can do. But whenever u hit a wall, thats where logic and creativity steps in, and thats why its superior or at the very least deserves alot more credit. And science doesn't exactly have a perfect track record either, its just when science makes a mistake its all hush hush no big deal because we did our best to get there. It was accepted that the atom was the smalled unit, now there saying its possibly strings and all kinds of other crap. Then there was how the "rules" suddenly don't apply to objects that small so it "technically" wasn't wrong or something. And based on that previous sentence we have these really small objects that are apparently affected/destroyed just by looking at them The bottom line is, science is a good system but its not perfect and people resting faith in it isn't good either. There's also the human factor and things being manipulated for greed and money, and more often than not, logic is going to save you quicker than science will since it takes logic to defy science in the first place and to take such a leap obviously requires faith, so to suggest people shouldn't ever use faith combine with logic, just isn't scientifically safe. Theres a reason things get tested again after having already been approved, its not just to make people feel safe, its because sometimes, science actually was wrong.
now maybe my definition of logic is different than others but i think you get what im talking about, anyways just sayin
--------------------
  We were sent to hell for eternity Ø h® We play on earth to pass the time Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
Edited by makaveli8x8 (04/22/11 07:52 AM)
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funegi
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: PreparationH]
#14332103 - 04/22/11 07:49 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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logic, is simply high probability, not certainty and "certainly" not absolute or right. logic, being the result of a rigorous scientific process for theory establishment, is therefore essentially an highly probable explination but by no means absolute or right. So, if science is the basis for ones beliefs, then by its nature (science) it begs for the disproving of its own logic and therefore, is theories. when you don't question something you make it a "god"/absolute, that's not science.
Church of Logic? not logical. lol
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: funegi]
#14332120 - 04/22/11 08:03 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
funegi said: logic, is simply high probability, not certainty and "certainly" not absolute or right. logic, being the result of a rigorous scientific process for theory establishment, is therefore essentially an highly probable explination but by no means absolute or right.
Your confusing empirical science and logic. Logic is absolutely true by definition; there is no probability in logic. Empirical science revolves around probability and attempts to approach the cleanness of logic via that route. That the two are often in disagreement is obvious and is very well illustrated by makaveli8x8's post, which describes the process through which science builds a body of knowledge that is logically consistent: by inducing theory from observations, by deducing new theory from existing knowledge (that may in turn be either deduced or induced), by formulating hypotheses based on the newly developed theory in order to test it in an empirical setting, which in turn makes it possible to see if the new theory is consistent with both existing knowledge and empirical data. Deduction and induction are activities that involve both creativity and the application of logic. Hence, modern (empirical) science is the integration of existing knowledge, new data, creativity and logic. Therefore, I think it's difficult to maintain that any of those elements is in any way superior to the others; they are in fact complementary.
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AntiEverything
im not a doctor



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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: jobe28]
#14332145 - 04/22/11 08:11 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
jobe28 said:
Quote:
koraks said: Here's another one for you: if God is almighty, can He disprove his own existence?
Hahah nice one. That's a pretty trippy thought. Yeah I think, hypothetically, he could.
he has disproven his existence and does so on a constant and daily basis
truth and experience are in-separable. all other types of knowledge are subjective. unless you have truly experienced something which can be objectively measured and experienced by others, you are taking truth for granted. excluding the importance of experience in favor of hearsay is arbitrary, you wouldnt know anything first hand and your thoughts and experiencs rest on the words and teachings of other people.
as far as im concerned the word of god only exists in the minds of people on earth, after this fact, i have seen no evidence of god, nor heard of evidence of god that can be measured objectively. the explanation of god always ends in tautology "who created order? god. who created god? god just is and always was". "seeing god" or experiencing "god" only seems to happen inside the minds of certain "special" people. at this point, god grants favors on an arbitrary basis, free will exists only for certain people.
science can objectively measure why things act in a certain "order" and what effect that has on other parts of reality.
-------------------- You are at once both the quiet and the confusion of my heart. -Franz Kafka
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funegi
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: koraks]
#14332150 - 04/22/11 08:13 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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the fact that something can be highly logical but still not true and therefore requires another look at evidence for its explination is a demonstration of the definition that logic is a propensity of evidence to list an explination w/a high percentage of logic. All this is exactly evident in your very argument as the the absolutism of logic.
god - logic. if you ask me both make for great little arguments.
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justin340
Rock Star



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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: skatealex2]
#14332163 - 04/22/11 08:16 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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disprove of it by the most awesome skate trick of all time.
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AntiEverything
im not a doctor



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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: funegi]
#14332208 - 04/22/11 08:28 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
funegi said: the fact that something can be highly logical but still not true and therefore requires another look at evidence for its explination is a demonstration of the definition that logic is a propensity of evidence to list an explination w/a high percentage of logic. All this is exactly evident in your very argument as the the absolutism of logic.
god - logic. if you ask me both make for great little arguments.
if its "highly" logical..like say 95%, but still the equation is not complete it is still illogical. what the hell is your point?
it would be like doing a math equation and making it "highly methematical but still nonsensical" look teacher i did 95% of this math equation and it still doesnt make sense MATH IS NOT ABSOLUTE
-------------------- You are at once both the quiet and the confusion of my heart. -Franz Kafka
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realfuzzhead



Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 10,783
Loc: above the smog layer
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: justin340]
#14332216 - 04/22/11 08:30 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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considering we live in a model based society, your parents "God" model of the universe isnt really any less correct than our "nonGod" view..
just like the Ptolemaic view of the Universe isnt necessarily wrong, its just a much more complicated model for explaining an observed phenomena, and the sun-centered model is cleaner, more elegant and easier to work with so it is the accepted model.
Steven Hawkings book, The Grand Design, really has got me thinking.
We are not right, we only have models to explain situations, but no one model can be applied to all situations (universal theorem)
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,797
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: justin340]
#14332217 - 04/22/11 08:30 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
disprove of it by the most awesome skate trick of all time.
This will be officially accepted as proof, at least on the Shroomery.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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funegi
Stranger



Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 1,063
Loc: lat: right, long: hi
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Re: Would it be wrong to disprove god to your parents? [Re: Asante]
#14332234 - 04/22/11 08:34 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Antieverything, i agree w/you. that is my point. I really believe the only solution to this is justin340's!
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