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Invisiblenalyudi
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Loc: Oak Savanna Region
Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: Mad_Larkin]
    #14319865 - 04/19/11 09:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

good luck not being cut down in your pursuit of freedom :rolleyes:

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InvisibleMad_Larkin

Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 18,606
Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: nalyudi]
    #14319871 - 04/19/11 09:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:shrug:

I don't particularly want to rape and murder so I don't think that'll be a problem.

What's your idea of freedom, nalyudi?

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OfflineSTIKAROUND
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Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14319903 - 04/19/11 09:22 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

STIKAROUND said:
Capitalist market based societies like the US are what keep us consuming and program us to be materialistic. How could there be any good in this? We are taught that the fast paced, instant gratification based, and luxurious lifestyles we live are neccesary in fact it is this beahavior is not only dehumanizing it is literally destroying the planet.

Capitalism = Bad





no one is being programmed, it's human nature that kicks in and desires things




No one is being programmed? Is this a serious response? Of course its in our nature to desire things but we are domesticated overly intelligent apes who in the face of shiny and flashy new "things' cant resist because that is all we have been exposed to.

Westernizied Capitalist style culture armed with television the ultimate organizer of content and distibuator of content and being that the are more tv's than people here in the states and those tv's are on a majority of our day. Your telling me some how some way none of that content did not manage to enter your very mind and alter your perception of reality beacause by observing my slef for 19 years and the people around me its seems to be quite the opposite.


--------------------
The :sun: :heart:s GAIA

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Offlinescienceguy
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Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: Mad_Larkin]
    #14319909 - 04/19/11 09:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)



--------------------
"Freedom starts between the ears."

Edward Abbey

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Invisiblenalyudi
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Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: Mad_Larkin]
    #14319910 - 04/19/11 09:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

"Libertarian Capitalists believe individuals should be free to do anything they want, so long as they do not infringe upon the equal rights of others.

They further believe that the only legitimate use of force, whether public or private, is to protect those rights."

These are the values the (US) founding fathers took from Fracis Bacon and John Locke in developing the constitution and bill of right. But differences in interpretation have turned the political system into a shit storm

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OfflineDungeonMaster
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Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: STIKAROUND]
    #14319935 - 04/19/11 09:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Edward Bernays wrote a book on it called "Propaganda". Look it up.  It is worth the read.


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InvisibleBlend
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Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: Patlal]
    #14319947 - 04/19/11 09:31 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'm strongly against the practice.  But whatcanyoudo

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OfflineSTIKAROUND
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Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: DungeonMaster]
    #14319956 - 04/19/11 09:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Ill be sure to look it up. You should look up The Lies My Teacher Told Me.


--------------------
The :sun: :heart:s GAIA

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Invisiblenalyudi
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Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: STIKAROUND]
    #14319964 - 04/19/11 09:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

STIKAROUND said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

STIKAROUND said:
Capitalist market based societies like the US are what keep us consuming and program us to be materialistic. How could there be any good in this? We are taught that the fast paced, instant gratification based, and luxurious lifestyles we live are neccesary in fact it is this beahavior is not only dehumanizing it is literally destroying the planet.

Capitalism = Bad





no one is being programmed, it's human nature that kicks in and desires things




No one is being programmed? Is this a serious response? Of course its in our nature to desire things but we are domesticated overly intelligent apes who in the face of shiny and flashy new "things' cant resist because that is all we have been exposed to.

Westernizied Capitalist style culture armed with television the ultimate organizer of content and distibuator of content and being that the are more tv's than people here in the states and those tv's are on a majority of our day. Your telling me some how some way none of that content did not manage to enter your very mind and alter your perception of reality beacause by observing my slef for 19 years and the people around me its seems to be quite the opposite.




I would separate capitalism from consumer culture although they are related. Capitalism provides the incentive for people to develop product progression. Think what life would be like without a washer and dryer. You would have to spend hours hand washing. The point is capitalism has led to you being able to allot time to read, learn, and post on a web forum. Maybe this is a leap idk.

Imagine if 3rd world countries all the sudden had amenities to allot time in a day to read, discuss, and thus progess...maybe.

I consider consumer culture an ego thing more than anything else. Too many believe wealth is the only measure of success.

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OfflineSprezzatura
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Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: Patlal]
    #14319966 - 04/19/11 09:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
We all know it has its +/-.

Any thoughts on the matter?




I think capitalism reflects the nature of human beings more than any other economic system.  Competition in a free market has the highest potential for quality outcomes.
"Individual ambition serves the common good" ~Adam Smith. 

Capitalism FTW :thumbup:


--------------------
Spectaculorum procedere debet





:mushroom2: :beer:

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OfflineStaleShrooms
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Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: Devlish2]
    #14319975 - 04/19/11 09:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Devlish2 said:
Quote:

STIKAROUND said:
Capitalist market based societies like the US are what keep us consuming and program us to be materialistic. How could there be any good in this? We are taught that the fast paced, instant gratification based, and luxurious lifestyles we live are neccesary in fact it is this beahavior is not only dehumanizing it is literally destroying the planet.

Capitalism = Bad




Well said. The whole capitalist culture is mind numbingly stupid and absolutely disgusting.




This.

Fuck capitalism.

it encourages greed, cruelty, consumerism, materialism and a compassionless society hell bent on making money any way it can - which almost always includes abusing people and the environment to turn the largest profit possible.


--------------------
Kick is seeing things from a special angle. Kick is momentary freedom from the claims of the aging, cautious, nagging, frightened flesh. Maybe I will find in yage what I was looking for in junk and weed and coke. Yage may be the final fix.
                         
                                              ~William S. Burroughs

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OfflineDungeonMaster
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Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: StaleShrooms]
    #14319997 - 04/19/11 09:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

StaleShrooms said:
Quote:

Devlish2 said:
Quote:

STIKAROUND said:
Capitalist market based societies like the US are what keep us consuming and program us to be materialistic. How could there be any good in this? We are taught that the fast paced, instant gratification based, and luxurious lifestyles we live are neccesary in fact it is this beahavior is not only dehumanizing it is literally destroying the planet.

Capitalism = Bad




Well said. The whole capitalist culture is mind numbingly stupid and absolutely disgusting.




This.

Fuck capitalism.

it encourages greed, cruelty, consumerism, materialism and a compassionless society hell bent on making money any way it can - which almost always includes abusing people and the environment to turn the largest profit possible.





What is money?


--------------------

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OfflineSprezzatura
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Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: StaleShrooms]
    #14320033 - 04/19/11 09:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Come on, you guys aren't serious are you?  That sounds like you're reading from a poorly xeroxed pamphlet distributed by some 'head-up-their-ass' liberal at a college campus protest.

Capitalism is good, it's closer to freedom than any other economic system, my family in Poland can tell you all about how terrible communism is... and just for the record, humans destroy the planet no matter what economic theory they practice.

Materialism, Greed, corruption, destruction etc. aren't the direct result of capitalism, they're the byproduct of human kind.

There are alternative lifestyles to being Materialistic and in a consumer-based society...  I think some woman from the message board went to a commune in Hawaii that discourages that sort of ideology and mentality...   

Why stay in modern society?  No one has a gun to your head telling you to shop at their store, you have the freedom and power to change your own life... yet you remain in the materialistic world?  Why?


--------------------
Spectaculorum procedere debet





:mushroom2: :beer:

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InvisibleDarkMatterOfFact
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Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: Sprezzatura]
    #14320040 - 04/19/11 09:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

this is also in the constitution and  is noticeably removed from monuments around D.C.

even though it was held in high respect by the writers of. as  in it is what this nation was built upon

"In political philosophy, the right of revolution (or right of rebellion) is the right or duty, variously stated throughout history, of the people of a nation to overthrow a government that acts against their common interests. Belief in this right extends back to ancient China, and it has been used throughout history to justify various rebellions, including the American Revolution and the French Revolution."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_revolution


--------------------
                                                                                 

Nixon was a asshole. Just look at his biggest creation. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the DEA.

Which secretly stands for Demonizing Everyone by Allegations.

Edited by DarkMatterOfFact (04/19/11 09:54 PM)

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OfflineSTIKAROUND
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Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: nalyudi]
    #14320050 - 04/19/11 09:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

"Think what life would be like without a washer and dryer. You would have to spend hours hand washing."

Exactly this is the way it is supposed to be washing by hand would result in no loss energy tyus resulting in no degradation to the planet.


"Imagine if 3rd world countries all the sudden had amenities to allot time in a day to read, discuss, and thus progess...maybe."

I would not consider it progres I would consider it a leap in the wrong direction. Whose to say a primitive lifestyle is not the correct one. They may not be as literate or analytical as you or I but are they not geniuses? They live in a almost perfect equalibrium with the planet. We consumers in a capitalist society are literally poisoning the planet we taint the air we breath, the water we drink, and degrade the soil to the point of infertility.


--------------------
The :sun: :heart:s GAIA

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Invisible4HO-DMT
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Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: NetDiver]
    #14320056 - 04/19/11 09:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Eh, I think the best system is one with both capitalist and socialist elements.

Capitalism is good to an extent, but it needs to have some degree of control to prevent corporations from becoming the government, as we've seen happen.





This sums it up pretty well.

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OfflineAntiEverything
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Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: DungeonMaster]
    #14320071 - 04/19/11 09:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

money is a representation of labor

but under the paremeters of capitalism it is highly convoluted


--------------------
You are at once
both
the quiet
and
the confusion
of my heart.
-Franz Kafka

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OfflineSTIKAROUND
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Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: Sprezzatura]
    #14320101 - 04/19/11 09:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Sprezzatura said:
Come on, you guys aren't serious are you?  That sounds like you're reading from a poorly xeroxed pamphlet distributed by some 'head-up-their-ass' liberal at a college campus protest.

Capitalism is good, it's closer to freedom than any other economic system, my family in Poland can tell you all about how terrible communism is... and just for the record, humans destroy the planet no matter what economic theory they practice.

Materialism, Greed, corruption, destruction etc. aren't the direct result of capitalism, they're the byproduct of human kind.

There are alternative lifestyles to being Materialistic and in a consumer-based society...  I think some woman from the message board went to a commune in Hawaii that discourages that sort of ideology and mentality...   

Why stay in modern society?  No one has a gun to your head telling you to shop at their store, you have the freedom and power to change your own life... yet you remain in the materialistic world?  Why?




Im not saying and alternative system such as communism is the correct route Im saying all current systems are so far from correct that the simplist answer is so blurred it cannot be recognized. We were not meant to live within city wall we were not meant to develop this way. We were supposed to be nothing more than aborigines of out designated areas.


--------------------
The :sun: :heart:s GAIA

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InvisibleBlend
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Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: AntiEverything]
    #14320130 - 04/19/11 10:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Sprezzatura said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
We all know it has its  /-.

Any thoughts on the matter?




I think capitalism reflects the nature of human beings more than any other economic system.  Competition in a free market has the highest potential for quality outcomes.
"Individual ambition serves the common good" ~Adam Smith. 

Capitalism FTW :thumbup:




I'm so not up for debate right now, but I've got to at least touch on this....

I think you may be confusing the word 'ambition' with the word 'obligation.'  People are obligated to make money to support themselves and their families.  This has nothing to do with the 'common good,' it has to do with making money by any means necessary. 
I'm still baffled how people call our financial system a 'free market.'  You did hear about the bailouts, right? 
And I won't even start on the 'highest potential for quality outcomes' bit, cause I won't be able to quit.  I'll just say that in a capitalist economy (and I shudder to even call it an economy, because going by definition, capitalism is closer to an antonym), goods and services of the highest possible quality would not be affordable.  Sustainability goes against the very nature of the financial system.  The engine of our economy is perpetual consumption, and in order for that to happen, things simply have to break down.

Quote:

Materialism, Greed, corruption, destruction etc. aren't the direct result of capitalism



You really could not be more wrong here.

You can throw your generalizations around all you want, capitalism is textbook insanity.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: Patlal]
    #14320189 - 04/19/11 10:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Depends how you define capitalism.  I support a market economy because central planning has such an abysmal record(which is why I don't support the Venus Project).  And even if a centrally planned economy could work, I wouldn't want to live in it.  I think a market economy, liberated from monopolistic power, has a wonderful tendency for novelty and creativity.

On the other hand, I think that natural resources, or at least the profits from them, should belong to all people in common.  I think land and resource rents need to be used for public finance so that no individual profits from taking what rightly belongs to all of us.  So that puts me pretty sharply at odds with modern capitalism.

I also think much of what the financial sector does needs to go away.  It's fine to invest in companies to create wealth and then share in their profits, but the whole derivatives fiasco is symptomatic of the way they disguise phantom wealth as real wealth.  So basically, the financial sector needs to be a lot smaller than it is.  I also don't like the way that money is created privately as debt by for-profit banks, rather than as a public good by a public institution.

And corporate personhood...don't get me started.

I even would like to see wage labor eventually replaced with various models of worker ownership.  But I don't think it should be mandated by the state.  I think once we have the proper land reform and monetary reform in place, workers will be empowered enough that that sort of thing can evolve on its own.

So basically, with the caveat that I absolutely do not support a centrally planned economy, I'd still have to say I'm not a fan of capitalism.


--------------------

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