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OfflineSprezzatura
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Registered: 10/01/09
Posts: 2,637
Loc: On the Atlantic Ocean
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: Blend]
    #14320263 - 04/19/11 10:25 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

What are you doing to live differently?  It sounds like you're quite vehemently against the Capitalist system yet your convictions appear to be disregarded in practice. 

I like the way society is overall.  Corporate bail outs and mass production gone awry may be questionable, but the ability to have a free-market, in the sense that you can start a business and offer an alternative and profit from it and make a living, is awesome to me.

I'll give you an example... Look at the beer companies like Budweiser; these types of companies dominated the beer market for quite some time (companies like Pabst blue Ribbon, Shlitz, etc.) and for a while you figured that was the only type of beer you could drink...  what happened?  The smaller beer companies, in this free market, started selling 'Craft beers' of higher quality, which sparked a whole movement of small-time beer companies getting on the shelves at local liquor stores... the quality of the beer has gotten better and better and the smaller companies gained so much profits, Budweiser was forced into attempting to create a 'Craft Beer' in 2008 (I believe or 2007) but ultimately failed to gain recognition from a new class of beer drinkers.

It's just one example of the upside of capitalism; it's not all crooked politicians and back stabbing rapacious monsters in suits and ties.


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Spectaculorum procedere debet





:mushroom2: :beer:


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Invisiblenalyudi
he runs about
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/03/08
Posts: 2,256
Loc: Oak Savanna Region
Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: STIKAROUND]
    #14320317 - 04/19/11 10:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

STIKAROUND said:

I would not consider it progres I would consider it a leap in the wrong direction. Whose to say a primitive lifestyle is not the correct one. They may not be as literate or analytical as you or I but are they not geniuses? They live in a almost perfect equalibrium with the planet. We consumers in a capitalist society are literally poisoning the planet we taint the air we breath, the water we drink, and degrade the soil to the point of infertility.




You use the term correct, when I think you mean appropriate. Reality is that people were willing to invest and adopt appropriate technologies they could live in harmony with the land. There are permaculture villages in the US...they still use power even if it is solar. Collective knowledge has given us the tools.

Image heavily insulated architecture with an air-tight energy envelope combined with a a geothermal hydronic heating system supplemented by a pellet furnace. The minimal electricity used could be created with solar panels, and the furnace could be fed waste woody debris. All localized energy, hardly any environmental impact, and completely doable.

So yes we could live in the elements with the land or collective knowledge could be used to reduce use and impact, then enjoy our time to recreate!

http://www.aldoleopold.org/legacycenter/ < check this out. i've been here, it's amazing


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Invisible4HO-DMT
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Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 5,073
Loc: County Line Road
Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: nalyudi]
    #14320384 - 04/19/11 10:42 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)



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InvisibleBlend
afferent orchestra
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Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 2,949
Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: Sprezzatura]
    #14320415 - 04/19/11 10:49 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I understand the failures of the practices of capitalism, but I've yet to find a suitable alternative, save for a complete reform of the way society operates.  I am guilty of being comfortable in our current paradigm, but I do believe we can do better.  In fact, I'm convinced we literally won't have a choice for much longer.

I mostly agree with Silversoul, but I like to dream that a system similar to The Venus Project could work - at least better than capitalism.  History doesn't quite agree with the concept, but it seems much saner than capitalism on many levels.


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InvisibleSalomon
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Registered: 01/17/09
Posts: 25,128
Loc: America, FUCK YEAH Flag
Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: 4HO-DMT]
    #14320434 - 04/19/11 10:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

spend your life working as a slave of the machine. work for money. money is your fuel, you will do what ever you must to get it because with out it  you are powerless. elitism exists in all governments as is human nature. but anarchy isn't the answer either, as becomes chaos. so given the choice between chaos and slavery, the masses choose slavery.


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EVERYTHING EVENTUALLY BECOMES A DESERT



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Invisiblenalyudi
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Registered: 03/03/08
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Loc: Oak Savanna Region
Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: 4HO-DMT]
    #14320454 - 04/19/11 10:55 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

read my OP and appropriate tech does not use oil, as a by product in manufacturing some will be used but never as a primary fuel.

As far as I am concerned oil is dead in our future, but it will take time to ween off the addiction until biomass methanol or cellulose ethanol really take hold. Starch (corn) ethanol is not grown with a stewardship ethic, but things like switchgrass and hemp provide an enormous amount feed stocks and is normally cultivated in a way that does rape the land


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Invisible4HO-DMT
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Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 5,073
Loc: County Line Road
Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: Salomon]
    #14320458 - 04/19/11 10:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Salomon said:
spend your life working as a slave of the machine. work for money. money is your fuel, you will do what ever you must to get it because with out it  you are powerless. elitism exists in all governments as is human nature. but anarchy isn't the answer either, as becomes chaos. so given the choice between chaos and slavery, the masses choose slavery.



qft


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InvisibleBlend
afferent orchestra
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Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 2,949
Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: 4HO-DMT]
    #14320555 - 04/19/11 11:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

physicist said:
capitalism?  Read this:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/innovation/04/19/oil.sands.extreme.energy/index.html?iref=allsearch



+5 for that.
It's a terrifying place we'll soon find ourselves in at this rate.  I can only hope people aren't still quoting Adam Smith and praising capitalism when they're working full time just to be able to buy enough water for themselves.
But my doubt is definitely heavier.


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OfflineDevlish2
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 3,641
Loc: The Astral Realm 16,376AD
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: Salomon]
    #14320699 - 04/19/11 11:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Salomon said:
spend your life working as a slave of the machine. work for money. money is your fuel, you will do what ever you must to get it because with out it  you are powerless. elitism exists in all governments as is human nature. but anarchy isn't the answer either, as becomes chaos. so given the choice between chaos and slavery, the masses choose slavery.






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[]
Space is the place


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Offlinerealfuzzhead
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Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 10,783
Loc: above the smog layer Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Do you love or despise capitalism? [Re: Devlish2]
    #14320723 - 04/19/11 11:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I could easily write a short book on my thoughts on capatalism

they basically aggregate to " it has its +/-'s"

I love the fact that  it allows for specialization of the work force
It has allowed for a substantial increase in the standard of living
It has allowed science to progress and obtain the precision nesessary to get to the amazing point it is at today
yadada

It virtually runs on exploitation
20% of the people own over 80% of the wealth.
Enviromental issues
Corruption

etc

to high to elaborate and I talked about this subject in 5 hours of classes today


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