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OfflineFear.Loathing
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Layering Horse-poo
    #14316629 - 04/19/11 10:59 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Hey guys,

So I was reading this tek on horse poo prep by agar:
http://www.shroomery.org/8397/Horse-poo-substrate-preparation

I was originally thinking of using the pillowcase method of pasteurization but might use this tek instead....

Sort of dumb question, but the way I understand it you would only have one layer of substrate (poo/verm) and the layer of spawn on top; then naturally flip the 'cake' over when it has finished colonizing.

So
1)would this mean you would want a clear container so that you can tell when its done colonizing?

2)I've read that multiple layers of each (spawn/sub) is better, is that right? :confused:

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OfflinePerun
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Re: Layering Horse-poo [Re: Fear.Loathing]
    #14316668 - 04/19/11 11:06 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I have much better experience with mixing the spawn and bulk(poo,coir,verm) then layering... :2cents:

sorry,but this fliping thing...i dont understand what do u mean!:shrug:


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OfflineFear.Loathing
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Re: Layering Horse-poo [Re: Perun]
    #14316699 - 04/19/11 11:13 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

wait how do you mix it then layer??? wouldn't it just be one layer then? and I was just thinking that like in this instance, flipping the cake out of its container to fruit in the FC.. or is that a bad idea? This was just my thinking cuz i thought having the spawn ONTOP of the bulk sub was a weird notion, so flipping it over my might make more sense, or just putting the spawn on bottom and the sub on top, OR, as you say, possibly mixing. but like i said i read a couple places people had more luck layering spawn/sub/spawn/sub etc

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OfflinePerun
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Re: Layering Horse-poo [Re: Fear.Loathing]
    #14316735 - 04/19/11 11:20 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Sorry i didnt write that good! :mad: (i am dead tired)

Anyway...i dump my bulk in the tub(save some(it will be clear why)),spawn on top of it,mix it all very good and then put those saved left overs of bulk on top as a "casing" layer,so it protect exsposed grain!


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Offlineabica
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Re: Layering Horse-poo [Re: Perun]
    #14316792 - 04/19/11 11:30 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I just read about people using a (clean) hand mixer to mix spawn into a bulk substrate.  The idea is that you make as many points of contact between mycelium and substrate as possible.

All this flipping etc. sounds like a bad idea.

And I think the consensus here is that mixing is better than layering.

Next interesting point of debate- is it better to add that layer of substrate on top to cover the grains, or is it better to mix everything up evenly and let grains poke through?  I've read both (preparing a grain run myself after having spawned BRF cakes to bulk poo a few times)



PS looks like a good pasteurization tek.  I did one similar to that a long time ago...this must have been my inspiration.  One issue was that my poo wasn't as aged as it could have been, and as such, a pillowcase type tek would have been better, because it would have leached the poo a bit.  If yours is nice and ready to go, this ought to be perfect!

The tek is nice because it allows you to adjust your water content before loading a pan or tub with spawn. 

The downside, as I remember reading and thinking, is that you may run the risk of only a partial pasteurization using this method.  It relies on transfer of heat into the bag, into the middle of the substrate.  Immersing the substrate, like in a pillowcase tek, doesn't expose you to that potential problem, because the hot water gets in there "real good like."


--------------------
My first poo tub



Edited by abica (04/19/11 11:37 AM)

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OfflineFear.Loathing
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Re: Layering Horse-poo [Re: Perun]
    #14316812 - 04/19/11 11:34 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Ok so keep in container... I feel like having that layer of just dung (no verm/straw/spawn) on top would help protect from contams tho.. almost like a casing layer?

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OfflineFear.Loathing
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Re: Layering Horse-poo [Re: Fear.Loathing]
    #14316824 - 04/19/11 11:36 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

oh woops thats pretty much what perun just said... i misread it. in any case i concur :tongue:

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Offlineabica
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Re: Layering Horse-poo [Re: Fear.Loathing]
    #14316836 - 04/19/11 11:39 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Correct on the idea behind the top layer.

Now, I'm not sure of it (I'm no expert) because:

On one hand, the top layer protects the exposed grains.

On the other hand, if there were grains in that top layer, it would most likely colonize more quickly, which would...protect everything from contamination.

Oh, I added a bit of talk about the poo pasteurization tek in my post above.  Just thoughts from an amateur.

I believe it is true that you're better off having a poo top layer than anything with straw...I remember reading that straw contams easier than poo. 


--------------------
My first poo tub



Edited by abica (04/19/11 11:40 AM)

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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: Layering Horse-poo [Re: Fear.Loathing]
    #14316859 - 04/19/11 11:41 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

properly pasteurized substrate is very contam resistant as is colonized grain spawn.

I've done it both ways. I prefer to mix it all fully together & ditch the pseudo-casing layer.

I use Damion5050's Elementary coir tek. Just dump the bucket in my mono, dump the spawn & mix w/ gloved hands. Smooth it out, put the lid on & let sit for 14 days.


--------------------
AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth

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OfflinePerun
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Re: Layering Horse-poo [Re: Fear.Loathing]
    #14316874 - 04/19/11 11:44 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Casing layer is a non nutriant and its applayed to create perfect micro-climate! Layer of poo u applay on top will get colonizade,but it will protect exposed grain long enough for myc to get stronger after spawning! I would suggest ading something else to your bulk be side poo...coir or at least verm(much better texture) Straight poo sub is not the best option...mix of 3 or 4 ingredients is much better(complex sub)


P.S. sorry for the spelling and grammar...i am dead tired and English is not my native language! :blush:


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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: Layering Horse-poo [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14316895 - 04/19/11 11:47 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

todlow said:
properly pasteurized substrate is very contam resistant as is colonized grain spawn.

I've done it both ways. I prefer to mix it all fully together & ditch the pseudo-casing layer.

I use Damion5050's Elementary coir tek. Just dump the bucket in my mono, dump the spawn & mix w/ gloved hands. Smooth it out, put the lid on & let sit for 14 days.




That's why I said pseudo, as in fake. It's what I refer to the extra 1/4" of a substrate you'd put on your bulk mix before sealing the lid for colonization.

it's probably just a language barrier.

But yea, I know what a real casing layer is. lol, good lookin' out though


--------------------
AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth

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OfflinePerun
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Re: Layering Horse-poo [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14316903 - 04/19/11 11:49 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

todlow said:
Quote:

todlow said:
properly pasteurized substrate is very contam resistant as is colonized grain spawn.

I've done it both ways. I prefer to mix it all fully together & ditch the pseudo-casing layer.

I use Damion5050's Elementary coir tek. Just dump the bucket in my mono, dump the spawn & mix w/ gloved hands. Smooth it out, put the lid on & let sit for 14 days.




That's why I said pseudo, as in fake. It's what I refer to the extra 1/4" of a substrate you'd put on your bulk mix before sealing the lid for colonization.

it's probably just a language barrier.

But yea, I know what a real casing layer is. lol, good lookin' out though




No bro...i wasnt talking to you! :smile: It was for Fear.Loathing !:smile:


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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: Layering Horse-poo [Re: Perun]
    #14316927 - 04/19/11 11:53 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Perun said:
Quote:

todlow said:
Quote:

todlow said:
properly pasteurized substrate is very contam resistant as is colonized grain spawn.

I've done it both ways. I prefer to mix it all fully together & ditch the pseudo-casing layer.

I use Damion5050's Elementary coir tek. Just dump the bucket in my mono, dump the spawn & mix w/ gloved hands. Smooth it out, put the lid on & let sit for 14 days.




That's why I said pseudo, as in fake. It's what I refer to the extra 1/4" of a substrate you'd put on your bulk mix before sealing the lid for colonization.

it's probably just a language barrier.

But yea, I know what a real casing layer is. lol, good lookin' out though




No bro...i wasnt talking to you! :smile: It was for Fear.Loathing !:smile:





:doh:

Yea, what  Perun said about not using 100% is correct. I'd recommend the majority being poo, some coir & you're def. going to need some Verm in there for moisture retention.


--------------------
AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth

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OfflineFear.Loathing
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Re: Layering Horse-poo [Re: Perun]
    #14316939 - 04/19/11 11:54 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

lol its ok about the spelling perun, I've seen americans do much worse.


I may go with the pillowcase method as it seems a little easier and i like what you said about there being less risk as far as the pasteurization thing.

Also I'll probably try the layer of dung on top..I've heard that straw is more susceptable to contams as well... I live next to a farm so it depends on how much straw is mixed in with the poo when I collect it tho...Otherwise, prolly use poo/straw/verm as bulk sub mix... anyone have any ideas on good ratios?


@Todlow

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OfflineFear.Loathing
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Re: Layering Horse-poo [Re: Fear.Loathing]
    #14316949 - 04/19/11 11:56 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

and thanks i do also know what a REAL casing layer is lol, and know its pretty much unnecessary when using a poo mix. having that layer on top just seems sensible as far as contams/colonization goes.....

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Re: Layering Horse-poo [Re: Fear.Loathing]
    #14316961 - 04/19/11 11:59 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The pillowcase method is hard to get the substrate to field capacity...I'd recommend using quart jars like RR does in his video for ports.

Where did you hear that straw is more susceptible to contams? I'm just wondering, because if you've watched the RR videos, He uses strait straw laundry baskets outside for fruiting. Doesn't really seem to be a problem. Again, it comes down to PROPER pasteurization not, half-assed pasteurization...

As far as the ratios go, I :justdontknow: I only use Damion5050's coir tek. It works great for me :grin:


--------------------
AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth

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OfflineFear.Loathing
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Re: Layering Horse-poo [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14316976 - 04/19/11 12:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I've been rummaging through this site so much recently i cant remember exactly, prolly in some long ago thread... Could you post a link to Damion 5050's coir tek on here for me??

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InvisibleTranscendingLife
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Re: Layering Horse-poo [Re: Fear.Loathing]
    #14316986 - 04/19/11 12:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Click on the AMU Q&A Thread in my signature. We have a list of all our members's teks as the first post :awethumb:


--------------------
AMU: We Quickly Answer Questions Here
"One must accept the probability of failure to experience the elation of success." - TranscendingLife
“A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery.” - James Joyce
:sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop::wow:How I Do EVERYTHING:wow::sporedrop::sporedrop::mushroomgrow::sporedrop::sporedrop:
"Your vision will become clear only when you can look into your own heart…. Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes."- Carl Jung
"Anything that can be done chemically can be done by other means."- William S. Burroughs
"You are as dead now as you will ever be" - Seth

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Offlineabica
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Re: Layering Horse-poo [Re: TranscendingLife]
    #14317173 - 04/19/11 12:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'd heard that straw seems to be more susceptible to green molds than hpoo, but I've been searching a bit and haven't come up with anything concrete- just rumors etc. 

That's one of the reasons I stuck with hpoo.  Despite lots of people having success with coir, straw, etc., hpoo seems like the natural choice (no pun intended).

I can totally see the argument for making a complex substrate, however.  More nutrient variety, water capacity, etc. 

Todlow, I'm sure you're right, good procedures yield good results and can make any established tek work just fine.  That's yet another reason why I like just plain poo in monotubs- I could probably get better results with more complex methods, but the way I've adopted is just so easy it makes me lazy and change-adverse.  (The results in my sig were just my very first grow, things improved after that)

Ack- how did I end up rambling about this stuff in Loathing's thread?  Sorry dude.

I'm gonna check out that AMU thread as well!


--------------------
My first poo tub



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OfflineFear.Loathing
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Re: Layering Horse-poo [Re: abica]
    #14317232 - 04/19/11 12:48 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I like the coir tek... any idea whether horse poo can be added (or substituted) for better results?

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