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MagicBear
Stranger

Registered: 01/23/11
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politicians and chimps
#14315200 - 04/19/11 12:51 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Showing Obama with chimps questions his parentage, that's racist. Showing Bush with chimps is a comparison of similar intelligence, not racist. As for the tes-party don't be fooled, they have nothing to do with the spirit of the boston tea party, they are in fact the new name for the religious right. Do we really want our country controlled by a religious party. Sounds kinda like Muslim countries, don't ya think?
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Smackshadow
It's Time for Wild Speculation


Registered: 09/27/05
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Re: politicians and chimps [Re: MagicBear]
#14315229 - 04/19/11 12:58 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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I largely agree with MagicBear, but will add that comparing black people with monkeys has a historic element that impart creates the racism. No such historical comparison exists between white people and monkeys so it is not generally viewed as racism.
-------------------- The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all. ~H. L. Mencken~
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



Registered: 06/06/07
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shit happens, people need to deal with it. so someone made a reference to obama looking like a chimp.
they had to make a huge spectical out of it and put it in the news. i'd be upset if someone called me a name, and would rather not know it happened, instead of reading it in the news.
the state of hypocrisy this country lives in is astounding. a little while ago a black person had to use a separate bathroom than a white person did. now you make fun of a black person you lose your job. if someone had sent an email calling bush a redneck do you think they'd have been fired for racism.
i mean hey, if they lady is a shitty politician, she needs to resign, but not because of a comment she made. i mean does it take all this to get a politician to resign? bush had an illegal war and killed thousands of people, but if he had made a negro joke(not racism, just using it for terminology, please take a note of that) would that mean he has to resign?
it's amazing, how this country works, and i guess the world for that matter. it's like in apocalypse now when they thought colonel kurts was crazy, then in the end martin sheen thought he was a genius. it all starts to make sense now
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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Smackshadow
It's Time for Wild Speculation


Registered: 09/27/05
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Re: politicians and chimps [Re: imachavel]
#14315393 - 04/19/11 01:47 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have no problem with people calling Obama stupid, other then I think they are generally incorrect. The vast majority of liberals I know are the same way.
It is not hypocrisy. Being a redneck isn't a race. Comparing a black person to an Ape is. Namely because for generations black people were depicted as less then human, animal. Specifically, they were compared in oral, written, and visual medium as monkeys.
-------------------- The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all. ~H. L. Mencken~
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



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Re: politicians and chimps [Re: Smackshadow] 1
#14315427 - 04/19/11 02:00 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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i think calling someone a redneck is clearly a racial term for a white person. to me it's very racist. as racist as the word nigger.
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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monkiman
human being


Registered: 06/30/10
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Loc: somewhere in space time.
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Re: politicians and chimps [Re: imachavel]
#14315440 - 04/19/11 02:06 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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MagicBear
Stranger

Registered: 01/23/11
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Be careful there, someone might start calling you a liberal. Which apparently has become a bad word sometime in the last four decades.
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MagicBear
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Re: politicians and chimps [Re: imachavel]
#14315454 - 04/19/11 02:14 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Redneck refers to a social group, not all whites. The term should actually be worn with pride as it's referring to a sunburned neck from working the land; ie farmer.
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Smackshadow
It's Time for Wild Speculation


Registered: 09/27/05
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Re: politicians and chimps [Re: imachavel]
#14315507 - 04/19/11 02:46 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
i think calling someone a redneck is clearly a racial term for a white person. to me it's very racist. as racist as the word nigger.
I don't mean to be rude, but if that is true, you simply don't understand the concept of racism.
-------------------- The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all. ~H. L. Mencken~
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
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> add that comparing black people with monkeys has a historic element that impart creates the racism.
I believe this is just an excuse used by racists to justify their racism. How can something that was not intended to be racist actually be racist unless the offended observer creates the racism? It is people in the here and now that create racism, not history.
> I have no problem with people calling Obama stupid, other then I think they are generally incorrect.
Obama isn't stupid, but he isn't anything special. Unfortunately, the problem isn't with his intelligence, but rather the problem is his lack of substance.
> i think calling someone a redneck is clearly a racial term for a white person. to me it's very racist.
Exactly the point that I was making earlier... you create the racism, not history.
> Be careful there, someone might start calling you a liberal. Which apparently has become a bad word sometime in the last four decades.
It has been a bad word a lot long than that.
> Redneck refers to a social group, not all whites.
Really? You might want to rethink your definition of racism. I'll give you a hint... race (from wiki) is defined as:
Quote:
Race is [the] classification of humans into large and distinct populations or groups often based on factors such as appearance based on heritable phenotypical characteristics or geographic ancestry, but also often influenced by and correlated with traits such as culture, ethnicity and socio-economic status.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Quote:
MagicBear said: Showing Obama with chimps questions his parentage, that's racist. Showing Bush with chimps is a comparison of similar intelligence, not racist.
you're absolutely right, racism is only funny when it's targets are whites

of course alan greenspan isnt really white... he's a jew and liberals are a buncha racists

Quote:
Smackshadow said: I largely agree with MagicBear, but will add that comparing black people with monkeys has a historic element that impart creates the racism. No such historical comparison exists between white people and monkeys so it is not generally viewed as racism.
you're right, we call that a double standard, it's wrong to compare blacks to monkeys but it's perfectly fine to compare whites to monkeys... it's just racism plain and simple and since we're all monkeys, why is anyone getting upset
oh wait... but historically whites have been compared to monkeys... now what
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum



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Re: politicians and chimps [Re: Seuss]
#14316539 - 04/19/11 10:39 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > add that comparing black people with monkeys has a historic element that impart creates the racism.
I believe this is just an excuse used by racists to justify their racism. How can something that was not intended to be racist actually be racist unless the offended observer creates the racism?
Are you serious? Racism only exists when its intended? Segregation and Jim Crow laws, based on the concept that the races were 'seperate but equal' was not a deliberate attempt at racism but was nonetheless a clear manifestation of racism. A father forbidding his daughter to date a black man may be doing so out of the belief that he is ´protecting her' but is clearly manifesting racist prejudice about black men. And what about Hitler´s famous 'I am not a racist' speech? I'm sorry but this doesn't hold up. Deliberate manifestations of racial prejudice are rare, except on the internet. Much more significant are manifestations of racism and racist ideas that come out in rationalized methods. To say 'racism exists only in the eye of the beholder' is like saying 'it´s not rape if the rapist didn´t intend for it to be rape.' You may be on a mission to downplay racism´s current significance, which is a different discussion. But to define racism as something that can only exists when it is intended to is illogical.
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It is people in the here and now that create racism, not history.
A useless statement because history informs everything from politics to sex to entertainment. Why? Because people have memories.
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
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> Are you serious? Racism only exists when its intended?
That isn't what I said. I claimed that something that is not racist cannot magically become racist unless the observer decides that it is racist. For example, if I say "You are a really nice guy" but you mishear some racist remark, then it is you creating the racism out of thing air. In the same light, if I say something that I don't mean to be racist, but you decide that it is racist based upon some historical precedence, then once again you are creating the racism.
> To say 'racism exists only in the eye of the beholder' is like saying 'it´s not rape if the rapist didn´t intend for it to be rape.'
A married couple having consensual sex is not rape even if some third party that happens to see it thinks that it is.
> But to define racism as something that can only exists when it is intended to is illogical.
To the contrary, claiming that racism exists where it is not intended is illogical. People need to get over their little fragile feelings. Mens rea.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum



Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 3,322
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Re: politicians and chimps [Re: Seuss]
#14316784 - 04/19/11 11:29 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > Are you serious? Racism only exists when its intended?
That isn't what I said. I claimed that something that is not racist cannot magically become racist unless the observer decides that it is racist.
I agree that´s an important distinction, but then who decides what is racist and what isn´t? Which 'observer' is correct? I mean, you´re talking about racism as if its an empirical event. Which its not. Racism is as subjective as race itself, which by scientific accounts, doesn´t even exist.
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if I say something that I don't mean to be racist, but you decide that it is racist based upon some historical precedence, then once again you are creating the racism.
Why is history inappropriate grounds for determining something is racist?
Besides...thats not even the issue here. If you said 'black people look like apes' that would be racist now. And thats the issue. The ape comparison is obviously still considered racism, at least by some, otherwise this issue wouldn´t exist.
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To the contrary, claiming that racism exists where it is not intended is illogical.
No its perfectly logical if you can show the racism is there, as evinced by what I said earlier about Jim Crow and segregation being rationalized. Again, racism in those examples were not intended but certainly were present.
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People need to get over their little fragile feelings. Mens rea.
Perhaps this is the crux of the biscuit for you. You don´t think this particular Obama monkey comparison is worth getting upset over. That's a different judgement than deciding that there is nothing racist about comparing a black man to an ape. If your argument had been 'well its a little racist or maybe racist but its dumb to get upset over' I wouldn´t have jumped in. But so far, your argument has been 'people are interjecting a racist reading on something that is clearly not racist,' which I disagree with.
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Again, we are all, each and every race (and, yes Virginia, there are races), descended from apes. The Irish were compared to apes some day a while ago in history as evidenced by a cartoon presented above. Bush was constantly referred to as a chimp. I'm sorry but if you believe that Negroes should be immune from being compared to chimps it can only be because you think they are more closely related to them than other races. Which is, of course, incorrect. Everyone knows the Japanese are.
Grievance mongers make me sick. Everybody out looking for the latest "diss". Fuck that.
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum



Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 3,322
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
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Re: politicians and chimps [Re: zappaisgod]
#14317308 - 04/19/11 01:04 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Again, we are all, each and every race (and, yes Virginia, there are races),
There is only one race, you can distinguish characteristics all you want but 'race' is a social fabrication. If you believe in the idea that 'there is no such thing as society' you cannot also consistently believe in social distinctions such as 'a white race.' Its meaningless, no one can show where one race begins and another ends. Hitler tried to with his rules about what constitutes a Jew and what doesn´t and it was complete bullshit. Has anyone else been able to categorize races successfully? No. Particularly in America, where a person stops being black and they start being white has nothing to do with biology and has everything to do with social interaction. There is no such thing as race from an empirical point of view.
Quote:
descended from apes. The Irish were compared to apes some day a while ago in history as evidenced by a cartoon presented above. Bush was constantly referred to as a chimp. I'm sorry but if you believe that Negroes should be immune from being compared to chimps it can only be because you think they are more closely related to them than other races.
I don´t believe that 'negroes' are more closely related to chimps than 'other races.' I don´t believe that 'negroes' exist. However, I acknowledge that people of African descent in my country have to deal with racism on a daily basis, and have continually been depicted as monkeys in an intentionally hurtful campaign to dehumanize them. Perhaps one day this will all be a distant memory, and I will be free to compare whoever I want to whatever I want without belittling them racially. However, I know this is not the case, and I have enough common sense not to do so. Those who lack this common sense and then get called out have the right to whine 'I didn´t mean to be racist,' as much as I have the right to say 'that doesn´t matter.' This is the issue I´m debating, not whether or not a cartoon in which Obama is a chimp is 'a big deal'
Quote:
Grievance mongers make me sick. Everybody out looking for the latest "diss". Fuck that.
Agreed. That doesn´t mean racism doesn´t exist.
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Quote:
gluke bastid said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Again, we are all, each and every race (and, yes Virginia, there are races),
There is only one race, you can distinguish characteristics all you want but 'race' is a social fabrication. If you believe in the idea that 'there is no such thing as society' you cannot also consistently believe in social distinctions such as 'a white race.' Its meaningless, no one can show where one race begins and another ends. Hitler tried to with his rules about what constitutes a Jew and what doesn´t and it was complete bullshit. Has anyone else been able to categorize races successfully? No. Particularly in America, where a person stops being black and they start being white has nothing to do with biology and has everything to do with social interaction. There is no such thing as race from an empirical point of view.
There are biological differences not just manifest in melanin content. How many Caucasian people get sickle cell anemia? That is just one example. There are definitely clear physiological and biological differences.Quote:
Quote:
descended from apes. The Irish were compared to apes some day a while ago in history as evidenced by a cartoon presented above. Bush was constantly referred to as a chimp. I'm sorry but if you believe that Negroes should be immune from being compared to chimps it can only be because you think they are more closely related to them than other races.
I don´t believe that 'negroes' are more closely related to chimps than 'other races.' I don´t believe that 'negroes' exist. However, I acknowledge that people of African descent in my country have to deal with racism on a daily basis, and have continually been depicted as monkeys in an intentionally hurtful campaign to dehumanize them. Perhaps one day this will all be a distant memory, and I will be free to compare whoever I want to whatever I want without belittling them racially. However, I know this is not the case, and I have enough common sense not to do so. Those who lack this common sense and then get called out have the right to whine 'I didn´t mean to be racist,' as much as I have the right to say 'that doesn´t matter.' This is the issue I´m debating, not whether or not a cartoon in which Obama is a chimp is 'a big deal'
You are being racist if you ignore comparing a Caucasian person (Bush and the Irish) to a chimp but deplore comparing a Negro to a chimp. YOU are making a racial distinction. One is bad but the other is acceptable based solely on the color of skin of the purported target?Quote:
Quote:
Grievance mongers make me sick. Everybody out looking for the latest "diss". Fuck that.
Agreed. That doesn´t mean racism doesn´t exist.
I didn't say it didn't. I'm not quite sure how somebody who doesn't believe there are races can believe there is racism, though.
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



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Quote:
Smackshadow said:
Quote:
i think calling someone a redneck is clearly a racial term for a white person. to me it's very racist. as racist as the word nigger.
I don't mean to be rude, but if that is true, you simply don't understand the concept of racism. 
are you serious? 
so you'd call a puerto rican, a black person, a japanese man, a chinese man, a russian person, a mexican, a cuban, a columbian, you'd call all and any of these people a red neck?

ok but now nigger, nigger has only COME to mean a black person over time, it's original definition is an ignorant person, so that in fact shouldn't even be a racial word. if i called obama a nigger, i would wish to do so without being called out as a racist, personally i think he is very ignorant. i also think bush is very ignorant.
i'm surprised people think obama is intelligent with lack of substance, a great many other people seem to think he tries to do a lot of good things, but that he is dumb as a lamp post. it's not like i really know, i never met the guy.
maybe he just has a bad case of bieber fever and can't get over how struck he is, therefore he has made bad decisions throughout his entire presidency
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
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Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Quote:
gluke bastid said: There is only one race, you can distinguish characteristics all you want but 'race' is a social fabrication.
are you denying there's genetic differences between people of different races? I believe modern science would disagree, forensic sciences can determine the race of a human by examining the physical differences in bones as well as through DNA testing, modern medicine shows us that hose differences arent limited to just the skin color or the bones, each race has their own heritable issues, jews for instance with taysachs, blacks with hypertension, they've developed what's called 'races based medicine'
maybe the social fabrication is in the denial that there are many races on this planet, simply being of a different race doesnt mean that one race is inferior to another, it simply means there's definite heritable differences which is why black children arent often born to chinese families. to deny this is simply lying to yourself, if you want to make yourself feel better though you can always look at us as we do other animals like cattle or house pets, we can call people by breeds, the yellow breed, red breed, the brown breed with the dots on their heads
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no one can show where one race begins and another ends.
what the fuck does this even mean?
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Psychoslut
The Mother Fucking Bear-o-dactyl

Registered: 12/10/02
Posts: 20,917
Loc: all up in ya
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Re: politicians and chimps [Re: Prisoner#1]
#14318156 - 04/19/11 03:37 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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I know a chick thats half asian, half black. I need to fuck her, but shes too ghetto and only screws black guys.
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[quote]KristiMidocean said: Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: politicians and chimps [Re: Psychoslut]
#14318658 - 04/19/11 05:23 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Psychoslut said: I know a chick thats half asian, half black. I need to fuck her, but shes too ghetto and only screws black guys.
She is miles out of your league.
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GI_Luvmoney
Vote Republican!


Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 939
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Re: politicians and chimps [Re: zappaisgod]
#14319040 - 04/19/11 06:34 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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.
Edited by Prisoner#1 (04/19/11 07:03 PM)
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MagicBear
Stranger

Registered: 01/23/11
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I was taught way back in school that race referred to physical adaptations to environment. There where only like four different races, negro, Caucasian, mongol and Polynesian.These where developed back in the early days of man due to geological separation. It had nothing really to do with cultural differences. these days it seems like people just tag race on any group that's different than they are. By some peoples thinking I guess people from the deep south are a different race than people from the north, and hell I won't even get in to those crazy Californians.
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Psychoslut
The Mother Fucking Bear-o-dactyl

Registered: 12/10/02
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Loc: all up in ya
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Re: politicians and chimps [Re: zappaisgod]
#14322089 - 04/20/11 09:21 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Psychoslut said: I know a chick thats half asian, half black. I need to fuck her, but shes too ghetto and only screws black guys.
She is miles out of your league.
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Psychoslut said: I know a chick thats half asian, half black. I need to fuck her, but shes too ghetto and only screws black guys.
She is miles out of your league.
Not really man. She runs around the worst part of town possible, dating crack dealers that treat her like shit.
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[quote]KristiMidocean said: Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
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Re: politicians and chimps [Re: MagicBear]
#14322165 - 04/20/11 09:44 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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> I was taught way back in school that race referred to physical adaptations to environment. There where only like four different races, negro, Caucasian, mongol and Polynesian.
You were taught, or remembered, incorrectly. From the free dictionary:
Quote:
1. A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.
2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.
3. A genealogical line; a lineage.
4. Humans considered as a group.
The definition you provided may be correct within a limited context, but within the domain of racism, your definition is much too narrow.
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



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Re: politicians and chimps [Re: zappaisgod]
#14360859 - 04/27/11 12:30 PM (13 years, 25 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Psychoslut said: I know a chick thats half asian, half black. I need to fuck her, but shes too ghetto and only screws black guys.
She is miles out of your league.
you might be wrong about that. but anyway, you are going to love this, they found obama's birth certificate!

so now you can continue to criticize him for his political decisions, but can no longer criticize him for his legal status. yaaayyy!!
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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zorbman
blarrr


Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: politicians and chimps [Re: MagicBear]
#14360886 - 04/27/11 12:35 PM (13 years, 25 days ago) |
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Quote:
Showing Bush with chimps is a comparison of similar intelligence..
But very insulting to the chimps.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



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Re: politicians and chimps [Re: zorbman]
#14360924 - 04/27/11 12:45 PM (13 years, 25 days ago) |
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yes indeed, if i was a chimp, i'd be extremely offended
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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