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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc: Flag
The Shroomery is Not a Democracy
    #14306312 - 04/17/11 01:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not trolling, I just want to promote discussion on why it is such a BAT SHIT CRAZY idea for members to hold majority votes on the way the Shroomery functions as a website and as a community: things like website features, moderator selection, rules, etc.

The majority of all the content, if not all of it, is user generated or user submitted - so why can't we manage ourselves? Installing a voting system would be ridiculously easy from a programming perspective.

It just appears to me to be hypocritical and slightly ironic that a drug forum which emphasizes the importance and autonomy of the individual still submits it to a hierarchy of control for no apparent reason. So, what gives?


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OfflineLed Zeppelin
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Registered: 05/17/10
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale] * 2
    #14306325 - 04/17/11 01:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

$


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Invisible4runner
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Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 15,406
Loc: State of Jefferson
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale] * 10
    #14306335 - 04/17/11 01:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Because giving the control to a bunch of drugged up teens sounds like a good idea :shrug:


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Invisiblefiddle
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/10/08
Posts: 1,769
Loc: PNW
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Led Zeppelin] * 12
    #14306336 - 04/17/11 01:17 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

If you want to see how anonymous internet users manage themselves, go check out OTD or 4chan.


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Tickle my bassline.


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InvisibleSamuel L Jackson
Bad Motherfucker
Male

Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 8,393
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: 4runner]
    #14306346 - 04/17/11 01:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

if you were around on april 1st, you would know what happens when the "shitty way the website is run" is taken down.

it goes to shit REALLY QUICK.

scat porn, rebecca black, and general chaos would reign supreme


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InvisibleMad_Larkin

Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 18,606
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: fiddle]
    #14306350 - 04/17/11 01:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

maddlevi said:
If you want to see how anonymous internet users manage themselves, go check out OTD or 4chan.




QTF

As much as it goes against my philosophical principles, you have to have some responsible people in control on the internet. People don't give a shit about the consequences of their actions on the interbuttz so forums without moderation very soon become shitholes.


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OfflineHajnal
(ノ´ヮ´)ノ*:・゚✧


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Registered: 01/22/10
Posts: 2,071
Loc: New Eden
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: 4runner] * 2
    #14306351 - 04/17/11 01:20 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

anunnakian said:
Because giving the control to a bunch of drugged up teens sounds like a good idea :shrug:




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Hajnal ['hɒjnɒl] - An elegant mixture of blood and circuitry; sorrow and love fill your systems, like the stars and black holes encompass the ∞.


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Offlineathedrivein61
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Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 236
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: fiddle] * 2
    #14306355 - 04/17/11 01:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Im for it :happyheart:

Quote:

anunnakian said:
Because giving the control to a bunch of drugged up teens sounds like a good idea :shrug:





lol, its an internet drug forum who cares?? Who do you think
is moderating anyways?? Valedictorians and Ivy league graduates

:dumblol:




 

Quote:

maddlevi said:
If you want to see how anonymous internet users manage themselves, go check out OTD or 4chan.





How do they manage themselves??

They dont. I dont know what ur talking about.


Edited by athedrivein61 (04/17/11 01:22 PM)


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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 34,088
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 19 minutes, 10 seconds
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale] * 1
    #14306372 - 04/17/11 01:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Imagine you throw a party at your house and then people start complaining that they can't make their own rules.  Then you'll understand. 














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Mp3 of the month:  The Apple-Glass Cyndrome - Someday



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Offlineathedrivein61
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Registered: 02/05/10
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Learyfan]
    #14306375 - 04/17/11 01:25 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Imagine you throw a party at your house and then people start complaining that they can't make their own rules.  Then you'll understand. 


















but thats just dumb :smirk:


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InvisibleJesusGoneRogue
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Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 9,495
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Learyfan]
    #14306382 - 04/17/11 01:26 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

otd anyone?:Trollface:


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Offlineathedrivein61
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: JesusGoneRogue]
    #14306402 - 04/17/11 01:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

JesusGoneRogue said:
otd anyone?:Trollface:






There is an OTD for a reason. Giving people choice does not lead to OTD.
Unless the trolls outnumber the rest.

Oh wait...

Ya never mind this idea.


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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Registered: 04/20/01
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: athedrivein61]
    #14306413 - 04/17/11 01:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

athedrivein61 said:
but thats just dumb :smirk:




So if you're throwing a party and people want to fuck shit up, you'll let them. 














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Mp3 of the month:  The Apple-Glass Cyndrome - Someday



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Invisible4runner
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Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 15,406
Loc: State of Jefferson
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: JesusGoneRogue]
    #14306418 - 04/17/11 01:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

athedrivein61 said:
lol, its an internet drug forum who cares?? Who do you think
is moderating anyways?? Valedictorians and Ivy league graduates





Well the difference is that "admins" are going to think about discussions before changes are made based on previous experience and what is best for the community as whole.
Some regular user will just vote for what sounds best at that particular moment with out giving it a second thought or any thoughts of why it might not work.


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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc: Flag
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: athedrivein61] * 2
    #14306419 - 04/17/11 01:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

It's nobody's house and it's nobody's party. The internet is a platform for sharing, not an opportunity to plant another flag or property sign.

The voting system on individual posts could easily hide and/or remove offensive or inappropriate content. The Reddit system of posting comments works this way, where offensive posts are individually buried according to down votes by the users - moderators are rarely needed. Besides, we would STILL HAVE RULES, they would just be democratically selected. It isn't a far-fetched idea.

And as another member pointed out, there are already tons of pics of weed nugs, tits and ass, Obama giving high fives, crack heads and meth heads, spoofs, jokes, etc. What are you afraid of? I personally believe it's the idea of authority we are addicted to, whereby control is mis-attributed. Things would look basically the same - there won't be an influx of "SHROOMERY DESTROYERS" [If we won't protect America, the terrorists will destroy us... sound familiar?].

“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.”
Albert Einstein


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InvisibleSamuel L Jackson
Bad Motherfucker
Male

Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 8,393
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale] * 7
    #14306428 - 04/17/11 01:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

the shroomery is just fine the way it is.

cry more.


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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Registered: 04/20/01
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale] * 2
    #14306429 - 04/17/11 01:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Whale said:
It's nobody's house and it's nobody's party.




Wrong.  It's Ythan and the Admins house and party.  If you don't like this house and this party, go to another house and party. 














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Mp3 of the month:  The Apple-Glass Cyndrome - Someday



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Offlineathedrivein61
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Registered: 02/05/10
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale]
    #14306441 - 04/17/11 01:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Whale said:
It's nobody's house and it's nobody's party. The internet is a platform for sharing, not an opportunity to plant another flag or property sign.

The voting system on individual posts could easily hide and/or remove offensive or inappropriate content. The Reddit system of posting comments works this way, where offensive posts are individually buried according to down votes by the users - moderators are rarely needed. Besides, we would STILL HAVE RULES, they would just be democratically selected. It isn't a far-fetched idea.

And as another member pointed out, there are already tons of pics of weed nugs, tits and ass, Obama giving high fives, crack heads and meth heads, spoofs, jokes, etc. What are you afraid of? I personally believe it's the idea of authority we are addicted to, whereby control is mis-attributed. Things would look basically the same - there won't be an influx of "SHROOMERY DESTROYERS" [If we won't protect America, the terrorists will destroy us... sound familiar?].

“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.”
Albert Einstein




Agreed


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Invisible4runner
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Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 15,406
Loc: State of Jefferson
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale] * 1
    #14306444 - 04/17/11 01:37 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Whale said:
It's nobody's house




Ythan might think differently.

Seems like someone thinks they deserve a piece of everything. If you don't like you are free to go elsewhere and troll.


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Offlineathedrivein61
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: 4runner]
    #14306449 - 04/17/11 01:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

anunnakian said:
Quote:

The Whale said:
It's nobody's house




Ythan might think differently.

Seems like someone thinks they deserve a piece of everything. If you don't like you are free to go elsewhere and troll.





Ythan himself said he pretty much doesnt care about this place like
he used to.


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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc: Flag
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: 4runner]
    #14306472 - 04/17/11 01:42 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:

Wrong.  It's Ythan and the Admins house and party.  If you don't like this house and this party, go to another house and party. 





"If you don't like it, then fuck off!"

Don't sound like a country bumpkin, please. America and other systems of authority, for example, are still permeable to individual influence by way of voting, protest, non-profits, NGOs, etc. To be welcoming of change should be a value that is encouraged, not seen as a competition or battle of ideas.

"HE WANTS TO CHANGE THE PARTY! HE WANTS CHANGE!"




anunnakian said:
Quote:

The Whale said:
It's nobody's house




Ythan might think differently.

Seems like someone thinks they deserve a piece of everything. If you don't like you are free to go elsewhere and troll.




"Go somewhere else and troll!"

I love how any input that contradicts the current system is somehow seen as an affront.

Dissent... so unwelcomed.


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InvisibleJesusGoneRogue
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Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 9,495
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: athedrivein61]
    #14306478 - 04/17/11 01:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

trolling just wouldnt be the same without your threads getting locked and those delicious official warnings. and the possible ban. its like cheating death. :Trollface:


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Offlineathedrivein61
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: JesusGoneRogue]
    #14306483 - 04/17/11 01:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Im trolling?


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InvisibleMad_Larkin

Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 18,606
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: JesusGoneRogue]
    #14306485 - 04/17/11 01:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Tru dat. It's like diving with sharks, it's only fun because there's a chance you'll get eaten. :awesome:


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InvisibleJesusGoneRogue
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Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 9,495
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: athedrivein61]
    #14306486 - 04/17/11 01:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

no ma'am. i am:ashstrobe:


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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc: Flag
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: JesusGoneRogue]
    #14306488 - 04/17/11 01:46 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

JesusGoneRogue said:
trolling just wouldnt be the same without your threads getting locked and those delicious official warnings. and the possible ban. its like cheating death. :Trollface:




It's like breaking the law in Canada.

It just isn't as fun. :lol:


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InvisibleJesusGoneRogue
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Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 9,495
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Mad_Larkin]
    #14306493 - 04/17/11 01:47 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mad_Larkin said:
Tru dat. It's like diving with sharks, it's only fun because there's a chance you'll get eaten. :awesome:


:bigyesnod:
it's that threat of danger that compells and drives us to commit such acts.

someone gets it.


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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc: Flag
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: JesusGoneRogue]
    #14306497 - 04/17/11 01:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

So trolling and misbehavior is a byproduct of excessive regulation?

Now we're getting closer to the truth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbidden_fruit


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InvisibleSamuel L Jackson
Bad Motherfucker
Male

Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 8,393
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale] * 2
    #14306522 - 04/17/11 01:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

just because you think something is a good idea doesnt mean the entire website is going to jump on the bandwagon and agree.

as i said earlier, the shroomery is just fine the way it is. i honestly dont see where you are having an issue with the way its run now.


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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc: Flag
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Samuel L Jackson] * 1
    #14306552 - 04/17/11 01:55 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

SamuelLJackson said:
just because you think something is a good idea doesnt mean the entire website is going to jump on the bandwagon and agree.




I never expected that, and I never wanted that. Why should my "good" idea be the most important one?

But I did hope for some balanced opinions and a little dash of logic, rather than instant ridicule in a can. A mark of intelligence is the ability to entertain multiple possibilities and perspectives without ascribing to them.

The only bandwagon here apparently is the belief that improvement is somehow isolated and does not apply to all concepts and forms.

Quote:


as i said earlier, the shroomery is just fine the way it is. i honestly dont see where you are having an issue with the way its run now.




I don't have an issue, we are just discussing the reasons for why it is not democratic, and yet the people supposedly value democracy.

It's a contradiction.


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InvisibleLegend
RIP Sasha
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Registered: 03/29/10
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Loc: TX Flag
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale] * 4
    #14306559 - 04/17/11 01:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

i like the idea of an annual election of mods.


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No sympathy for the devil, keep that in mind.
[url=
]Buy the ticket, take the ride. [/url]
Are you lost?


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Offlineathedrivein61
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Registered: 02/05/10
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale] * 1
    #14306567 - 04/17/11 01:59 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Whale said:
Quote:

SamuelLJackson said:
just because you think something is a good idea doesnt mean the entire website is going to jump on the bandwagon and agree.




I never expected that, and I never wanted that. Why should my "good" idea be the most important one?

But I did hope for some balanced opinions and a little dash of logic, rather than instant ridicule in a can. A mark of intelligence is the ability to entertain multiple possibilities and perspectives without ascribing to them.

The only bandwagon here apparently is the belief that improvement is somehow isolated and does not apply to all concepts and forms.

Quote:


as i said earlier, the shroomery is just fine the way it is. i honestly dont see where you are having an issue with the way its run now.




I don't have an issue, we are just discussing the reasons for why it is not democratic, and yet the people supposedly value democracy.

It's a contradiction.






:thumbup:


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InvisibleMad_Larkin

Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 18,606
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Legend] * 3
    #14306571 - 04/17/11 02:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

legit27 said:
i like the idea of an annual election of mods.




I support this motion.


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InvisibleJesusGoneRogue
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Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 9,495
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Mad_Larkin] * 3
    #14306583 - 04/17/11 02:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mad_Larkin said:
Quote:

legit27 said:
i like the idea of an annual election of mods.




I support this motion.



i support this as well. no more dictators!!


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
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Loc: The Barricades
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Legend] * 2
    #14306586 - 04/17/11 02:04 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

legit27 said:
i like the idea of an annual election of mods.



Users are often given the chance to vote on new moderators when a position opens up.  The admins have the last say, but the opinion of users is taken into account.

To the RP:  If any user wants to contribute their ideas for the site, there's a forum for that.


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Offlineathedrivein61
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Silversoul] * 1
    #14306597 - 04/17/11 02:05 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

This is a pub is it not? :smirk: This idea is totally acceptable here.


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Invisible4runner
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Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 15,406
Loc: State of Jefferson
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Legend] * 1
    #14306598 - 04/17/11 02:05 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Democracy is not always the best option, even if that is what you believe. There really is no reason for me to entertain this idea because this is nothing new. It's all been discussed before, maybe not on this board but it has been discussed.

If you want a forum to vote on it's rules and features it will fail. How can you regulate the votes. Then who can vote, do you need x amount of posts, member for x years.Regular users will not give a second thought as to why something will or will not work. It will be just a bunch of yeah that's would be cool, but is it necessary, probably not.

In the end the shroomery would look like:

a big ol ball of fail.

Quote:

legit27 said:
i like the idea of an annual election of mods.



Oh a popularity contest. So instead of admin and mods picking mods for election you get the popular kids running things. You want people with the best interest of the shroomery to be a mod not the one with the most friends. Mods and admins cannot pick sides and choose when and where to enforce rules.


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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc: Flag
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Silversoul] * 1
    #14306599 - 04/17/11 02:05 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mad_Larkin said:
Quote:

legit27 said:
i like the idea of an annual election of mods.




I support this motion.




Otherwise it's like presidents selecting the subsequent presidents, and the mayors deciding on the upcoming mayors.

At the least, it's a joke. At the worst, it indicates a belief that the people are incapable of deciding what's best for themselves.

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

legit27 said:
i like the idea of an annual election of mods.



Users are often given the chance to vote on new moderators when a position opens up.  The admins have the last say, but the opinion of users is taken into account.

To the RP:  If any user wants to contribute their ideas for the site, there's a forum for that.




I actually didn't want to protest or complain about site regulation, I wanted to hear the opinions from the members. Thanks for the heads up though.


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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc: Flag
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: 4runner]
    #14306619 - 04/17/11 02:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

anunnakian said:
Quote:

legit27 said:
i like the idea of an annual election of mods.




Oh a popularity contest. So instead of admin and mods picking mods for election you get the popular kids running things. You want people with the best interest of the shroomery to be a mod not the one with the most friends. Mods and admins cannot pick sides and choose when and where to enforce rules.




It is a popularity contest, that's how democracy works. Haven't you seen election ads?

But the "popularity" you are referring to is the sociological idea of being the coolest. And what's wrong with that if it satisfies the majority?

You said you want 'people with the best interests of the Shroomery to be a mod', well who gets to decide what's in its best interest? The popular vote! Not a handful of elite. I think you misunderstand how simple democracy really is.


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InvisibleSamuel L Jackson
Bad Motherfucker
Male

Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 8,393
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale]
    #14306623 - 04/17/11 02:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Whale said:
Quote:

SamuelLJackson said:
just because you think something is a good idea doesnt mean the entire website is going to jump on the bandwagon and agree.




I never expected that, and I never wanted that. Why should my "good" idea be the most important one?

But I did hope for some balanced opinions and a little dash of logic, rather than instant ridicule in a can. A mark of intelligence is the ability to entertain multiple possibilities and perspectives without ascribing to them.

The only bandwagon here apparently is the belief that improvement is somehow isolated and does not apply to all concepts and forms.

Quote:


as i said earlier, the shroomery is just fine the way it is. i honestly dont see where you are having an issue with the way its run now.




I don't have an issue, we are just discussing the reasons for why it is not democratic, and yet the people supposedly value democracy.

It's a contradiction.





all democracy is, is a popularity contest.

i like the current mods. they do their job well.

if people voted for everything, then people that are generally disliked would be shut down and people that everyone likes would be boosted to some sort of demi-god status.

if there were annual elections of moderators, then there would be people that everyone generally likes as a moderator all the time, and all the people who had a separate opinion would instantly become a victim of sorts just for going against the grain.

the current moderators and admins are pretty damn good at what theyre doing. and if you think something needs to be done a certain way, theres (get this, new idea comin' up) a little whistle button at the bottom of every post. and when you hit that button you get to type a message.

it alerts moderators to what you think is a problem and they can assess the situation.

heres ANOTHER new idea. you can click on a moderators profile and SEND THEM A MESSAGE! you can actually talk to them and speak your opinion! amazingly, theyre people too and actually consider it! and sometimes if you make a good case they will act according to what you said! WOW!

the current system is just fine. theres no need to test out some shit which can go horribly wrong and throw the forum into chaos.


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InvisibleMad_Larkin

Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 18,606
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale] * 3
    #14306626 - 04/17/11 02:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I wish you weren't an opt out Mr. Whale, I'd give you +5 for almost all of your posts.


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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc: Flag
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Mad_Larkin] * 2
    #14306653 - 04/17/11 02:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

if people voted for everything, then people that are generally disliked would be shut down and people that everyone likes would be boosted to some sort of demi-god status.




Contingent on their performance. It's not set in stone and it's not blind faith. If the person isn't nice and becomes an incompetent, rude asshole - then there is no doctrine in place that mandates we should still adhere to their authority. They get downvoted with the quickness.

Quote:

the current moderators and admins are pretty damn good at what theyre doing. and if you think something needs to be done a certain way, theres (get this, new idea comin' up) a little whistle button at the bottom of every post. and when you hit that button you get to type a message.




Why do you think you need a middleman?

It's still not a democracy. That whistle button isn't a "VOTE" - it's merely a suggestion.

Quote:

heres ANOTHER new idea. you can click on a moderators profile and SEND THEM A MESSAGE! you can actually talk to them and speak your opinion! amazingly, theyre people too and actually consider it! and sometimes if you make a good case they will act according to what you said! WOW!




Not really, I've had moderators ignore my messages and/or disagree with me.

Quote:

the current system is just fine. theres no need to test out some shit which can go horribly wrong and throw the forum into chaos.




Fear of chaos breeds stagnation.

Perpetuating these fears is in the interest of authority, whose foundation is secured by making you believe there is no other possible way of improvement.


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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc: Flag
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Mad_Larkin]
    #14306665 - 04/17/11 02:18 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mad_Larkin said:
I wish you weren't an opt out Mr. Whale, I'd give you +5 for almost all of your posts.




Vote for me in the coming election! :tongue:

J/k.


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Invisiblevirus1824
Mr Mushroom
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/25/05
Posts: 1,751
Loc: Europe
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale] * 2
    #14306666 - 04/17/11 02:18 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:


why it is such a BAT SHIT CRAZY idea for members to hold majority votes on the way the Shroomery functions as a website




1.The majority doesn't pay to upkeep the website, and just uses/abuses it. so why give them power?

2. the majority are idiots and trolls.

3. The site functions perfectly fine.

4. The vast majority are here for a relatively short period of time and leave within a year or 2. so why give them a say if they don't stay here long enough to learn the culture.

5. this site has never been set up as a democracy where the masses rule. But if you are dedicated and not retarded in the end, they will probably ask for you're cooperation in keeping things tidy.


--------------------
A weekend wasted is never a wasted weekend


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Posts: 193,665
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: athedrivein61]
    #14306682 - 04/17/11 02:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

athedrivein61 said:
Who do you think is moderating anyways?? Valedictorians and Ivy league graduates





I went to princeton and yale


they threw me out, said I wasnt a student and didnt belong


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InvisibleSamuel L Jackson
Bad Motherfucker
Male

Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 8,393
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale]
    #14306693 - 04/17/11 02:23 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Whale said:
Quote:

if people voted for everything, then people that are generally disliked would be shut down and people that everyone likes would be boosted to some sort of demi-god status.




Contingent on their performance. It's not set in stone and it's not blind faith. If the person isn't nice and becomes an incompetent, rude asshole - then there is no doctrine in place that mandates we should still adhere to their authority. They get downvoted with the quickness.





unless everyone likes trolls and finds it funny, then upvotes it. i dunno why you think everyone on here is some sort of intellectual and moral thought machine. were you here on april fools day? did you not see what happened when people were allowed to do whatever they wanted? everyone trolled. hell, even i trolled.

its fucking hilarious, and people like the chaos. i dunno why you think everyone will take the voting on a forum as serious business.

Quote:

The Whale said:
Quote:

the current moderators and admins are pretty damn good at what theyre doing. and if you think something needs to be done a certain way, theres (get this, new idea comin' up) a little whistle button at the bottom of every post. and when you hit that button you get to type a message.




Why do you think you need a middleman?

It's still not a democracy. That whistle button isn't a "VOTE" - it's merely a suggestion.





because if you get all emotional and butthurt about something and report it to a moderator, then the moderator gets to come in without the emotion and butthurt and look at it realistically. i never said the whistle was a vote either. the whistle lets someone come look at it with an outside opinion.

if its actually a problem they do something about it.

Quote:

The Whale said:
Quote:

heres ANOTHER new idea. you can click on a moderators profile and SEND THEM A MESSAGE! you can actually talk to them and speak your opinion! amazingly, theyre people too and actually consider it! and sometimes if you make a good case they will act according to what you said! WOW!




Not really, I've had moderators ignore my messages and/or disagree with me.





probably because whatever it was that you messaged them about wasnt as big of a deal as you thought it was.

Quote:

The Whale said:
Quote:

the current system is just fine. theres no need to test out some shit which can go horribly wrong and throw the forum into chaos.




Fear of chaos breeds stagnation.

Perpetuating these fears is in the interest of authority, whose foundation is secured by making you believe there is no other possible way of improvement.




if it isnt broken, dont fix it.


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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc: Flag
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: virus1824] * 1
    #14306699 - 04/17/11 02:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

1.The majority doesn't pay to upkeep the website, and just uses/abuses it. so why give them power?




Actually, the majority does pay - without our page hits there would be no ad revenue; also factor in our donations for supporter accounts.

Quote:


2. the majority are idiots and trolls.




I take it you don't have many friends on here.

Quote:


3. The site functions perfectly fine.




But it could still be improved. Angelfire and Geocities websites worked perfectly fine too. Old printed media worked fine too, but now we have digital e-books and electronic media. 

Quote:


4. The vast majority are here for a relatively short period of time and leave within a year or 2. so why give them a say if they don't stay here long enough to learn the culture.




Internet shelf-life and longevity is very short, but you're right in that there could possibly be a maturation period before someone is allowed to vote.


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Invisible4runner
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Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 15,406
Loc: State of Jefferson
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale]
    #14306701 - 04/17/11 02:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Whale said:
It is a popularity contest, that's how democracy works. Haven't you seen election ads?




Yes but don't get a republic and a democracy confused. The U.S. is not a democracy.


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Invisibledonteatasians


Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1,461
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Samuel L Jackson] * 1
    #14306703 - 04/17/11 02:25 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

SamuelLJackson said:

if it isnt broken, dont fix it.



Exactly.:borat:


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InvisibleautomanM
blasted chipmunk
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Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 8,272
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale] * 2
    #14306710 - 04/17/11 02:26 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Voting for mods isnt that great of an idea. Users can post whom they like, but the admin have the ultimate decision. In the mod forum, we sometimes have very serious conversations as to site issues. We select not only people that can do the job, but also people with a proven track record of level headedness and rationality.

The Shroomery isnt a Democracy. Ultimately, It's a business.

You couldn't go to work one day and hold elections to see if you can get the hot receptionist in as Vice President of Marketing.


--------------------
No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr


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Offlineathedrivein61
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Female


Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 236
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: donteatasians]
    #14306718 - 04/17/11 02:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The guy offers an idea and gets shat on :sad:


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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc: Flag
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Samuel L Jackson]
    #14306721 - 04/17/11 02:28 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

SamuelLJackson said:

if its actually a problem they do something about it.





Because of course "they" get to determine when it's "actually a problem."

Quote:


if it isnt broken, dont fix it.




The wheel wasn't broke, but we went from horse and buggies to automobiles.

Crazy.


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Offlineathedrivein61
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Female


Registered: 02/05/10
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Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale]
    #14306730 - 04/17/11 02:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Whale said:
Quote:

SamuelLJackson said:

if its actually a problem they do something about it.





Because of course "they" get to determine when it's "actually a problem."

Quote:


if it isnt broken, dont fix it.




The wheel wasn't broke, but we went from horse and buggies to automobiles.

Crazy.






Moar logic??

:whoa:


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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc: Flag
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: athedrivein61]
    #14306731 - 04/17/11 02:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

automan said:
The Shroomery isnt a Democracy. Ultimately, It's a business.





Here we are.


Quote:

anunnakian said:
Quote:

The Whale said:
It is a popularity contest, that's how democracy works. Haven't you seen election ads?




Yes but don't get a republic and a democracy confused. The U.S. is not a democracy.




Actually, the U.S. is a plutocracy.

I'm just using it as an idealist example.


Quote:

athedrivein61 said:
The guy offers an idea and gets shat on :sad:




I like how the empathy comes from the only female participating. :heart:


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Invisibledonteatasians


Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1,461
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale]
    #14306739 - 04/17/11 02:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

athedrivein61 said:
The guy offers an idea and gets shat on :sad:



He didn't get "shat on", he got an honest response and conversation

Quote:

The Whale said:

The wheel wasn't broke, but we went from horse and buggies to automobiles.

Crazy.




There are other places on the internet if you want an automobile.


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Invisible4runner
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 15,406
Loc: State of Jefferson
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale]
    #14306742 - 04/17/11 02:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Now I completely understand where yo are coming from.... :facepalm:


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InvisibleSamuel L Jackson
Bad Motherfucker
Male

Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 8,393
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale]
    #14306745 - 04/17/11 02:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Whale said:
Quote:

SamuelLJackson said:

if its actually a problem they do something about it.





Because of course "they" get to determine when it's "actually a problem."





theres set rules. and they are damn good at determining what breaks the rules.

dont like the rules? go to OTD.


Quote:

The Whale said:
Quote:


if it isnt broken, dont fix it.




The wheel wasn't broke, but we went from horse and buggies to automobiles.

Crazy.




thats a horrible analogy. horrible


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale]
    #14306752 - 04/17/11 02:33 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Whale said:
The wheel wasn't broke, but we went from horse and buggies to automobiles.




a wheel is still a wheel


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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc: Flag
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Samuel L Jackson]
    #14306762 - 04/17/11 02:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

thats a horrible analogy. horrible





Actually it's sound analogical reasoning. But "horrible" sounds more convincing.

Quote:

dont like the rules? go to OTD.




Quote:

There are other places on the internet if you want an automobile.




For the record, suggesting that I go elsewhere is played out and is an easy cop-out in exchange for free thinking.


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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc: Flag
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14306768 - 04/17/11 02:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

The Whale said:
The wheel wasn't broke, but we went from horse and buggies to automobiles.




a wheel is still a wheel




Yes, and the internet is still the internet when we switched from Netscape Navigator to Google Chrome.

But my point remains. Don't be nitpicky.


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Offlineathedrivein61
Stranger
Female


Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 236
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: donteatasians]
    #14306769 - 04/17/11 02:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

donteatasians said:
Quote:

athedrivein61 said:
The guy offers an idea and gets shat on :sad:



He didn't get "shat on", he got an honest response and conversation

Quote:

The Whale said:

The wheel wasn't broke, but we went from horse and buggies to automobiles.

Crazy.




There are other places on the internet if you want an automobile.





No thats not how this works there guy. You all throw him right under
the buss without a second thought because its the normal thing to
do here in a belittling manner and pass it off as simple discussion
and "honest responses"

sucks.


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InvisibleSamuel L Jackson
Bad Motherfucker
Male

Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 8,393
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14306770 - 04/17/11 02:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

The Whale said:
The wheel wasn't broke, but we went from horse and buggies to automobiles.




a wheel is still a wheel




yo im looking for a post you made on april fools day, you said something along the lines of "look, you guys bitched about how the site was run, and now you got what you asked for. do you like it?"

but i cant find it because i cant remember exactly what you said so my searches are turning up a bunch of useless crap.

that thread needs to get linked so the OP can read it.


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Invisiblevirus1824
Mr Mushroom
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Registered: 09/25/05
Posts: 1,751
Loc: Europe
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale]
    #14306773 - 04/17/11 02:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Whale said:
1.The majority doesn't pay to upkeep the website, and just uses/abuses it. so why give them power?

Actually, the majority does pay - without our page hits there would be no ad revenue; also factor in our donations for supporter accounts.





I have no financial records of the site so i can't comment on howmuch revenue this brings. i was referring to direct payment through supporter accounts. Which i find the way to directly support the shroomery.

Quote:


2. the majority are idiots and trolls.

I take it you don't have many friends on here.




I wouldn't know since im not asking those questions to people, nor am i searching for acceptance. I'm not here to get befriended with people who live half a planet away. Im here to learn about mushroom growing and sharing that knowledge. Sometimes I even get into a trivial discussion such as this. Boosts my English grammar and sentence structure and whatnot.


--------------------
A weekend wasted is never a wasted weekend


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Invisibledonteatasians


Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1,461
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale]
    #14306774 - 04/17/11 02:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Whale said:
Quote:

thats a horrible analogy. horrible





Actually it's sound analogical reasoning. But "horrible" sounds more convincing.

Quote:

dont like the rules? go to OTD.




Quote:

There are other places on the internet if you want an automobile.




For the record, suggesting that I go elsewhere is played out and is an easy cop-out in exchange for free thinking.



I'm not suggusting you leave, just that you appreciate the shroomery for what it is and get whatever you don't feel you can find here from someplace that offers it.


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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc: Flag
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Samuel L Jackson]
    #14306777 - 04/17/11 02:37 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I have to go run errands, but thanks for posting your responses.

I'll re-visit again soon.


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InvisibleSamuel L Jackson
Bad Motherfucker
Male

Registered: 12/10/09
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale]
    #14306781 - 04/17/11 02:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Whale said:
Don't be nitpicky.




nit picking is what separates the truly good ideas from the truly shit ideas.

a lot of things seem like good ideas on the surface.

like drug prohibition

but then you look at the fine details and realize it sucks, doesnt work, and is totally immoral.

if you want to have a good conversation (which you seem to think you are missing out on for some reason) then you have to allow others to nitpick what you say and point out your logical fallacies.


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InvisibleautomanM
blasted chipmunk
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Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 8,272
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale]
    #14306782 - 04/17/11 02:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Whale said:
Quote:

automan said:
The Shroomery isnt a Democracy. Ultimately, It's a business.





Here we are.







Dipping into philosophy or does that actually mean something?


--------------------
No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr


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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc: Flag
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: automan]
    #14306789 - 04/17/11 02:39 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I'm not suggusting you leave, just that you appreciate the shroomery for what it is and get whatever you don't feel you can find here from someplace that offers it.




I do appreciate this place in many ways, I am just also an idealist that sees ways in which the value systems we possess as individuals can be extrapolated to the greater platform we use to communicate. It's like freeing the bird in your chest.
Quote:

automan said:


Quote:

The Whale said:
Quote:

automan said:
The Shroomery isnt a Democracy. Ultimately, It's a business.





Here we are.






Dipping into philosophy or does that actually mean something?




I wasn't being facetious.

I was agreeing with you and implying it's more closer to the truth.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Posts: 193,665
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale]
    #14306791 - 04/17/11 02:39 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Whale said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

The Whale said:
The wheel wasn't broke, but we went from horse and buggies to automobiles.




a wheel is still a wheel




Yes, and the internet is still the internet when we switched from Netscape Navigator to Google Chrome.

But my point remains. Don't be nitpicky.




you should follow your own advice because in this thread you're being picky

Quote:

The Whale said:
It just appears to me to be hypocritical and slightly ironic that a drug forum which emphasizes the importance and autonomy of the individual still submits it to a hierarchy of control for no apparent reason. So, what gives?




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Invisibledonteatasians


Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 1,461
Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: athedrivein61]
    #14306797 - 04/17/11 02:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

athedrivein61 said:
Quote:

donteatasians said:
Quote:

athedrivein61 said:
The guy offers an idea and gets shat on :sad:



He didn't get "shat on", he got an honest response and conversation

Quote:

The Whale said:

The wheel wasn't broke, but we went from horse and buggies to automobiles.

Crazy.




There are other places on the internet if you want an automobile.





No thats not how this works there guy. You all throw him right under
the buss without a second thought because its the normal thing to
do here in a belittling manner and pass it off as simple discussion
and "honest responses"

sucks.



I gave it thought.  I'm not belittling him.
Would you mind telling how conversation goes if it's not an exchange of ideas like I thought?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Samuel L Jackson]
    #14306802 - 04/17/11 02:42 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

SamuelLJackson said:
i cant remember exactly what you said so my searches are turning up a bunch of useless crap.






all my posts :Trollface:


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InvisibleSamuel L Jackson
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14306809 - 04/17/11 02:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

hahahahaha when i typed that out i knew you were going to comment on that aspect of it :lmafo:


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: athedrivein61] * 2
    #14306843 - 04/17/11 02:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Two fucking newbs think they are going to revolutionize the Shroomery to suit t3h p33puhlz?  :facepalm:  As Teragon once said, "Shine off, you twat(s)".

Even if there were to be an election what makes you think you two month dorks would get a vote?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Samuel L Jackson]
    #14306848 - 04/17/11 02:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

every time I search my posts I can only pull one page of results, it wont let me move to the second or any other subsequent pages


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InvisibleautomanM
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14306858 - 04/17/11 02:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
every time I search my posts I can only pull one page of results, it wont let me move to the second or any other subsequent pages




proof that a system can learn pity

:smirk:


--------------------
No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: automan]
    #14306869 - 04/17/11 02:54 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

it says I'm not found in the database


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14306872 - 04/17/11 02:55 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Spider monkeys are ninjas.


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InvisibleSamuel L Jackson
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Registered: 12/10/09
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14306900 - 04/17/11 02:59 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Dunno said:
there are no actual mods and all you can come up with is 100's of rebecca black comments and random scat?

i thought you guys could have come up with some more creative usage of a free site...





what better way to enrage the pub than to remove all the mods...
you wanted freedom and now you cant fucking handle it


I laugh at you all




:winning:


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Invisible4runner
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14306911 - 04/17/11 03:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Sorry I sorted by date, I think it wiped you out.

"The username you entered was not found on the BB."

It's gotta be # sign.


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OfflineCoaster
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Samuel L Jackson]
    #14306914 - 04/17/11 03:02 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

How about we have elected officials moderate the place :shoosh:


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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: zappaisgod]
    #14306939 - 04/17/11 03:05 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
:dancingbear:




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OfflineCoaster
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: athedrivein61]
    #14306942 - 04/17/11 03:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

:wtf:


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: 4runner]
    #14307042 - 04/17/11 03:22 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

anunnakian said:
Sorry I sorted by date, I think it wiped you out.

"The username you entered was not found on the BB."

It's gotta be # sign.





yeah... the puppet tracker doesnt work on me either, the admins have to check


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Coaster]
    #14307045 - 04/17/11 03:23 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Coaster said:
How about we have elected officials moderate the place :shoosh:





the mods are elected


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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14307060 - 04/17/11 03:26 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

:header:


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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14307082 - 04/17/11 03:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

By God?


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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: 4runner]
    #14307137 - 04/17/11 03:39 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I say we change the Shroomery to a dictatorship that masquerades as a democracy.

And we should only allow the men to fake vote.


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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Remix]
    #14307224 - 04/17/11 03:54 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

This thread :laugh2:


--------------------
~The Cultivators Motherload~

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I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale]
    #14307414 - 04/17/11 04:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

For what it's worth, I admire Reddit and have said in the past that I would like to emulate some of their ideas. But honestly, unless we find someone else to do the programming, it will probably never happen. I've learned a lot from working on the site but my interest is pretty much exhausted.


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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Ythan]
    #14307430 - 04/17/11 04:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The Lord hath spoken.


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Invisible4runner
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Ythan]
    #14307438 - 04/17/11 04:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Ah reddit, where once again you get to feel the true power of a 56k modem.

I like reddit but it is kind of a mess. They need to get off of the amazon servers and really bulk up. 501's all up in that bitch.


Edited by 4runner (04/17/11 04:34 PM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Remix]
    #14307491 - 04/17/11 04:37 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Remix said:
I say we change the Shroomery to a dictatorship that masquerades as a democracy.

And we should only allow the men to fake vote.




news flash.. The Shroomery is Not a Democracy

with love,
The Bourgeois


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OfflineRemix
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14307551 - 04/17/11 04:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The proletariat user will rise again!
We must end this reign of Mods and Admins who sacrifice our shroomery rights at the whim of those who can afford supporter accounts!


--------------------


Edited by Remix (04/17/11 04:54 PM)


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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale] * 1
    #14308787 - 04/17/11 08:47 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Noobs have been coming on this site for years demanding democracy and fair justice.. new flash, this isn't a democratic nation it's a privately owned message board/website.

You act as if the admins don't even listen to the masses and take suggestions into account. Nothing could be further from the truth. The admins and mods listen and take everything into consideration.
That comes at a price though, because then they can end up wasting their valuable time catering to the whiners.

You should have seen the site in 1998, with the puke orange color scheme
Improvements are constantly being made, the site evolves into the greatest message board on the internet. Name one with more features and customization.
I honestly do not think it would be where it is today if OTD ran the place, or if we would even exist still


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Invisibledr_gonz
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. [Re: Shroomism]
    #14308796 - 04/17/11 08:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

.


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InvisibleJesusGoneRogue
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: dr_gonz]
    #14308808 - 04/17/11 08:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

ouch :aweman:


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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Shroomism]
    #14308811 - 04/17/11 08:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Have the mods and admins taken to account how many people to not like pris#1? I know he's not that bad, i was just wondering if they had looked into that.


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]Buy the ticket, take the ride. [/url]
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Legend]
    #14308824 - 04/17/11 08:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Just because retards can't fallow the rules does not mean a mod is bad.

Always fun to see he banned list. Those are always the ones that complain about a mean mod./

Read the fucking rules.


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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Legend] * 2
    #14308860 - 04/17/11 08:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

legit27 said:
Have the mods and admins taken to account how many people to not like pris#1? I know he's not that bad, i was just wondering if they had looked into that.





prisoner#1 is legit.

hes banned me twice, but i wont hold it against him.

i wonder if the people who dislike him ever seriously look at his posts and consider his opinion. he doesnt just blow shit out of his ass into the forum. he also knows how to take a joke. hes just good at appreciating/taking jokes, and then when someone takes the joke too far he lays down the law. and then some people get butthurt because they took it too far and he let the :banhamster: loose.

hes pretty knowledgeable about random shit too. (but im still convinced hes a wikipedia master, despite his claims of encyclopedia use and listening to old people tell stories)


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OfflineRemix
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: 4runner]
    #14308889 - 04/17/11 09:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

This reminds me...

...I miss the shroomerites anon forum.
:feelsbadman:


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Edited by Remix (04/17/11 09:00 PM)


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InvisibleJesusGoneRogue
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Samuel L Jackson]
    #14308892 - 04/17/11 09:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

very true samuel. i wont take it personal the day i go to far.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Shroomism]
    #14308915 - 04/17/11 09:02 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
You should have seen the site in 1998





or even in 2004 when people were banned for anything other than goodvibes in the pub


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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Remix]
    #14308922 - 04/17/11 09:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Remix said:
This reminds me...

...I miss the shroomerites anon forum.
:feelsbadman:




I do miss SA.

When I first joined I kept thing it was Sex Anonymous :facepalm: :shrug:

Which I guess it kind of was but damn there was some lols in there. And some good posts.


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OfflineRemix
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: 4runner]
    #14308973 - 04/17/11 09:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I know.

I once advised a guy who was obsessed with fucking fatties to throat fuck his girl until she could be considered bulimic and, accordingly, lose weight. This advise is now lost with the removal of said forum and any other internet users with savvy-enough google skills may now lack such informative advise.


--------------------


Edited by Remix (04/17/11 09:12 PM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Legend] * 1
    #14309022 - 04/17/11 09:18 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

legit27 said:
Have the mods and admins taken to account how many people to not like pris#1? I know he's not that bad, i was just wondering if they had looked into that.




yes, many times, I'm frequently asked why someone was banned if the reason
wasnt readily apparent or if the offense was not deserving of the duration of
the ban, at that point I show them the reason which is generally a series of
posts... has it occurred to you that the reason so many dont like me is
because I'm consistent and I dont play favorites... many can vouch for that,
someone hits the button because someone is flaming them and it turns out they
were baiting to get that response, well it's unfortunate but they both get
the ban because the flamer wouldnt have reacted had the baiter not been
fishing and if one gets 5 days the other will as well... whether I like
you or just dont care I hand it out the same, I've slapped the hands of
mods and had mine slapped, I permabanned several people I liked end
enjoyed talking to... people will bitch when they have a target to bitch
about and the bullseye on my back says I'm it

some dont like me because my opinion isnt the same as theirs and I'll call
bullshit when I see bullshit... is my opinion the reasons you dont like me?


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InvisiblePenguarky Tunguin
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: 4runner]
    #14309030 - 04/17/11 09:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

anunnakian said:
Because giving the control to a bunch of drugged up teens sounds like a good idea :shrug:





This.


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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #14309062 - 04/17/11 09:25 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

my opinion on you changes, but for the most part. I love you pris :datass:


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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: 4runner] * 1
    #14309086 - 04/17/11 09:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not going to reply to the responses individually, as there are just too many points to note and it would take awhile.

But in closing, there are a few things I'd like to address

  • Several people have indicated that "newbs be comin' in here all demanding an' shit, yo. YOU NEW, DAWG!" In fact, membership duration does not negate the validity of the arguments for or against changes in forum regulation. That logic exists independently of how much one identifies with being a regular. To counter otherwise is equivalent to saying the new rotating associate professor in physics can't make any bold claims because he's new, or that novice jazz players just ain't got that old timey jingle! Old hat is not best hat, sorry.

  • This wasn't an attempt (or even a bland desire) to change any Shroomery bureaucracy. It's an opportunity to discuss "what ifs" in addition to the whys, hows, and whens of its current state. At least to my mind (caveat emptor: "opinion") the psychedelic experience usually promotes creative perspectives that alter our traditional modes of being - we get fresh insights on the best ways to manage our lives and our relationships with other people (in addition to discovering HD Planet Earth is the shit). Instead of arguing about change itself, which is inevitable, or quickly making ad hominem attacks on alternative perspectives, it is much more fruitful to discuss specific details and ideas that arise from those new insights, which often include ways to overcome our tendencies towards hegemony.

  • The "giving control to a bunch of drugged up teens" argument is a gross underestimation of the value of the people who post here. In many cases the communication is one of baseless sarcasm and scatological humor, but that's just the nature of the beast. Besides, the website obviously doesn't mind generating revenue and ad hits from that same reckless group. Furthermore, the scope of the mission - or at least as it appears - includes transforming the stereotype that "drugged up teens" are ignorant and irresponsible people. I thought we left that logic with the drug war? Nobody's looking to sabotage anything; I would say the joke of trolling and recking the place actually arises from a compulsion to constantly control it.

  • Ythan's response indicates at the admin level there is an interest to implement voting policies that mimick Reddit in its ability to regulate the popularity and visibility of posts. So, I'm definitely not alone in suggesting this - according to him it is a matter of lack of resources and interest, not one of "IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT, MAN!" The Shroomery isn't a lawnmower. Ideally, it should be an open source platform for information exchange.



I'll close out with a reiterative note from our beloved moderator, Pris, in case we forget:

Quote:

news flash.. The Shroomery is Not a Democracy

with love,
The Bourgeois




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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Legend]
    #14309129 - 04/17/11 09:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

legit27 said:
my opinion on you changes, but for the most part. I love you pris :datass:





gaddamnit... gotta work harder on that then


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OfflineRemix
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale]
    #14309130 - 04/17/11 09:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Whale said:
I'll close out with a reiterative note from our beloved moderator, Pris, in case we forget:

Quote:

news flash.. The Shroomery is Not a Democracy

with love,
The Bourgeois






:laugh2: Yes. We, here, at the shroomery are so oppressed.



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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale] * 1
    #14309458 - 04/17/11 10:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Whale said:
I'm not trolling, I just want to promote discussion on why it is such a BAT SHIT CRAZY idea for members to hold majority votes on the way the Shroomery functions as a website and as a community: things like website features, moderator selection, rules, etc.

The majority of all the content, if not all of it, is user generated or user submitted - so why can't we manage ourselves? Installing a voting system would be ridiculously easy from a programming perspective.

It just appears to me to be hypocritical and slightly ironic that a drug forum which emphasizes the importance and autonomy of the individual still submits it to a hierarchy of control for no apparent reason. So, what gives?




Meh, who says letting the majority control the site would be a good idea?  Sometimes the most popular opinion is not the most correct or intelligent one, and for the most part I favor a benign dictatorship over the popularity contest that such a majority-ruled system would inevitably turn into IMO.  I can definitely see why having more influence over the way the Shroomery functions via voting is appealing, but I don't necessarily want to grant the average person the same power.


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OfflineMaharishi_2_U
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: deCypher] * 1
    #14310495 - 04/18/11 05:14 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

It was once generally accepted that the world was flat and that one could sail off the edge
:shrug:
whale I think your discusion is validated but you seek the wrong audience, in the wrong venue.
:twocents:


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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Maharishi_2_U]
    #14310514 - 04/18/11 05:36 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I think it would be a good idea to vote on moderators. The Admins are obviously in thier positions due to technical know-how, as well as the identifiers / cultivators, but other than that, I don't really see a reason we shouldn't vote on mods.

I think it would be neat to having people running for mods and an election kind of thing.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Shroomism]
    #14310521 - 04/18/11 05:46 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
Noobs have been coming on this site for years demanding democracy and fair justice.. new flash, this isn't a democratic nation it's a privately owned message board/website.

You act as if the admins don't even listen to the masses and take suggestions into account. Nothing could be further from the truth. The admins and mods listen and take everything into consideration.
That comes at a price though, because then they can end up wasting their valuable time catering to the whiners.

You should have seen the site in 1998, with the puke orange color scheme
Improvements are constantly being made, the site evolves into the greatest message board on the internet. Name one with more features and customization.
I honestly do not think it would be where it is today if OTD ran the place, or if we would even exist still




Yeah, and this suggestion should also be considered. If the general consensus is that your a good mod, then you have nothing to lose!

I think it would help eliminate any possible corruption as well.

:wink:

What makes you think that people would vote a douchebag to be a mod? Obviously the president and council would have the final say, but overall I think the users should be able to have some say as well.


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Maharishi_2_U]
    #14310540 - 04/18/11 06:03 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Shroomery Spring. Democracy is such a fine thing, it is. Democratic systems just work better than others. Look at the West. All doing fine, those people, aren't they? They're driving their cars, eating their burgers, they can whine about their politicians or anything else that bothers them, and go about their days in a relatively worry-free manner. And they're democratic. So democracy works; you need democracy! WE need democracy! Today's it's the Arabs who step up to the plate and embrace this superior paradigm. The entire Western world is sympathetic to the efforts of Arab civilians demanding a better system and is ready to support them in fighting their old-fashioned autocratic leaders.

Likewise, we were sympathetic to the democratization of eastern European countries. Velvet Revolution; anything as soft as velvet can't be wrong, can it? And it wasn't. The Czech, Slovaks, Polish, Romanians, etc.: they all had some vision of what democracy would look like, and how it would improve, or at least change, their societies. They had examples in (culturally comparable) neighboring countries of democracies that worked fine, and the template could be transferred to the newly liberated countries. And even though it took two decades during which improvement was scarce, and a generation had to get to grips with a fundamentally altered society, in the end, it delivered. For most people. People became less constricted in what they were allowed say, although there remained substantial differences between what was legally allowed and what was socially and therefore realistically acceptable. Wealth began to be distributed in a different way. That this new distribution of wealth was perhaps just as unfair as it had been in the past, is something that took people more than 15 years to realize. But in one way things have improved dramatically. For now, they are democratic. And what's more, Democracy brought its twin brother called Free Market, and that tandem is the engine that generates limitless wealth. At least, it has always done that for us, in the West.

But now, the West is starting to run into the limitations of the wonder boys called Democracy and Free Market. It forces us to ask the question if wealth really equals prosperity, for that is the assumption we implicitly embraced for more than a century. And while a new surge of democratization sweeps the world, and Libyans, Egyptians, Tunisians, Syrians and Yemenites seek improvement of their situation by throwing out the old and embracing the new, some people in the West ask themselves in what specific areas the Arabs are expecting improvement, and how democracy is going to help them achieve that. And I just don't know, I really don't. The only thing I know is that when the question is asked of the revolutionaries what they really want, then the answer is invariably 'democracy'. And I can't help but wonder if democracy will taste as sweet as anticipated, if it will quench thirst, if it will protect against the cold, and if it will make more people feel better than they did before. I sincerely hope so, but I realistically don't expect we'll know within the next decade, as that is the time that it will take for the initial chaos to subside and some form of stability to emerge.

So concerning the topic of a democratic Shroomery, I can only ask: what will democracy bring us? And only then, if that question is addressed, in detail, resulting in a clear vision of what democracy means in this context, only then and not a minute earlier, start making changes. And while scrolling through this thread, it appeared to me that nobody has even raised the question why democracy would be desirable, other than for the hollow reasons of 'empowering people'. People only want to be empowered if they expect that it will improve their situation. So try to understand their situation first, and then think of how to improve it.

Democracy is not a panacea.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: koraks]
    #14310556 - 04/18/11 06:13 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

It would just bring people a say-so, which is really all they want :smile:


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InvisibleFischer
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: teknix]
    #14310646 - 04/18/11 07:02 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I think the title says it all; The Shroomery is not a democracy... why would anyone think it was? It's a privately-funded, privately-hosted forum.  And in my experience, democracy is one of the worst things that can happen to a place with no consequences or cost.

While the community is the clay that makes up the forum, it's down to the mods and admins to sculpt and remove parts, to keep it in line with its mission, whatever that may be. Users do not have intrinsic rights, and I'm totally ok with that, as a user who has learned and benefited with the only expectations being that

- I might share my experiences and assist those less knowledgeable (which amounts to no-one, at this stage)
- I refrain from acting like a cockjockey.

I've been on a few great forums that decided to stop trying, and gave into the constant bitching for "democracy".  You know what happened?  The "facist" mods were replaced with facist cliques, the members who were interested in the pure subject matter left for less dramatic pastures and the interesting info was replaced by the cool kids circlejerking.

They turned from places of learning into clubhouses.

Off subject, I think that part of the reason RogerRabbit is held in such esteem by the community is that despite seeing the same newbs, same questions, same bullshit, he still shares, teaches and tries as (I assume) he always did. People like that (or genuinely tireless mods/admin) are the only thing that stops a community overrunning a forum.  And in the end it's the community (including/especially those to come) who loses out. 

It's the job of mods to fend off that stagnation/decay as long as possible, so that the forum can remain active, fresh and focussed on what it was created for.


Edited by Fischer (04/18/11 07:09 AM)


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Invisiblegerryjarcia
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Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: The Whale] * 2
    #14310892 - 04/18/11 08:31 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Whale said:
I'm not going to reply to the responses individually, as there are just too many points to note and it would take awhile.

But in closing, there are a few things I'd like to address

[LIST]
  • Several people have indicated that "newbs be comin' in here all demanding an' shit, yo. YOU NEW, DAWG!" In fact, membership duration does not negate the validity of the arguments for or against changes in forum regulation. That logic exists independently of how much one identifies with being a regular. To counter otherwise is equivalent to saying the new rotating associate professor in physics can't make any bold claims because he's new, or that novice jazz players just ain't got that old timey jingle! Old hat is not best hat, sorry.

  • This wasn't an attempt (or even a bland desire) to change any Shroomery bureaucracy. It's an opportunity to discuss "what ifs" in addition to the whys, hows, and whens of its current state. At least to my mind (caveat emptor: "opinion") the psychedelic experience usually promotes creative perspectives that alter our traditional modes of being - we get fresh insights on the best ways to manage our lives and our relationships with other people (in addition to discovering HD Planet Earth is the shit). Instead of arguing about change itself, which is inevitable, or quickly making ad hominem attacks on alternative perspectives, it is much more fruitful to discuss specific details and ideas that arise from those new insights, which often include ways to overcome our tendencies towards hegemony.

  • The "giving control to a bunch of drugged up teens" argument is a gross underestimation of the value of the people who post here. In many cases the communication is one of baseless sarcasm and scatological humor, but that's just the nature of the beast. Besides, the website obviously doesn't mind generating revenue and ad hits from that same reckless group. Furthermore, the scope of the mission - or at least as it appears - includes transforming the stereotype that "drugged up teens" are ignorant and irresponsible people. I thought we left that logic with the drug war? Nobody's looking to sabotage anything; I would say the joke of trolling and recking the place actually arises from a compulsion to constantly control it.

  • Ythan's response indicates at the admin level there is an interest to implement voting policies that mimick Reddit in its ability to regulate the popularity and visibility of posts. So, I'm definitely not alone in suggesting this - according to him it is a matter of lack of resources and interest, not one of "IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT, MAN!" The Shroomery isn't a lawnmower. Ideally, it should be an open source platform for information exchange.





  • are you a college T.A. (Teachers Assistant), cause you sure sound like one?

    i dig most of your posts, Whale, and i appreciate the intelligence you bring to most discussions. reading through this thread it's interesting to observe the various responses from other users.

    debates are interesting for me and i've sat through many of them over the years. sometimes i chime in, sometimes i just observe. it's interesting to see how people fall into their respective "roles" without even thinking about it (or maybe they do think about it and choose their particular role according to their liking).

    you have the protagonist and the antagonists and then all the varying roles in between.

    i too am an idealist (which can sometimes feel more like a disease i suffer from than a healthy perspective through which to view the world). i can empathize with your desire to encourage others to re-frame and rethink the "norm". even if the "norm" seems apparently "all good".

    one thing i've had to take into account while observing debates and discussions over the years was the ability and know how of the participants to engage in the art of critical thinking. i'm not talking about one person being "smarter" than the other. i'm referring to the learned and practiced skill of engaging an issue or set of issues through a lens that allows you to hold all the various angles up to the light to see them for what they are.

    from my experience, this is not a widely practiced art (just look at american political discourse).

    all that to say, cheers to you for bringing this up even if it has been discussed in the past on this site. we could use a dose of healthy critical thinking everyone once in a while if for nothing more than to remind ourselves of what we stand to lose and what we've already gained.


    --------------------


    "We are all intoxicated. We were born into an insane asylum, a world crazy-making. We believe what we see and hear. The real myth is the myth of sanity, of rationality: it's a disease that is eating away at the earth. All the poisons flow from our denial. We deny madness, we forget our crimes, we dismember the corpse, we imprison our children. We need poison to poison the poison, to remember the sacred nature of intoxication, the green body of the young god." ~ Dale Pendell


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    Invisibleteknix
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    Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: gerryjarcia]
        #14312985 - 04/18/11 03:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

    Those in the seats of power would obviously be inclined to disagree.

    Then there are those who resist any change out of fear. Not knowing what could happen :o . It is a bit insulting to think that the users here are too inept to decide who gets a ban priveledge?

    We makes choices for ourselves each day, and fortunately, we are still alive.


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    InvisibleFischer
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    Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: teknix]
        #14313088 - 04/18/11 04:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

    I wouldn't say it's insulting to think that...  You're assuming that the vast majority of users on an x-thousand user site have enough investment, judgement, self control and take their online "social life" seriously enough to keep things on track, friendly and beneficial for the hobby/art/science of psychedelics/cult/etc.

    That is rarely the case, and never so on a large forum.  You will always get people who don't understand the etiquette, or piss people off, or look for opportunities to get butthurt, or behave in a way that's otherwise detrimental to the community.  And if you don't do anything about it, it only takes a few to wipe out the quality of a forum.

    But then, that's only *my* opinion (that the primary value of this place is the fact that it brings together a huge knowledge-base and people who want to learn).  If the community evolves to something that no longer grabs me, I'll move on.


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    Invisibleteknix
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    Re: The Shroomery is Not a Democracy [Re: Fischer]
        #14313138 - 04/18/11 04:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

    Quote:

    Fischer said:
    I wouldn't say it's insulting to think that...  You're assuming that the vast majority of users on an x-thousand user site have enough investment, judgement, self control and take their online "social life" seriously enough to keep things on track, friendly and beneficial for the hobby/art/science of psychedelics/cult/etc.

    That is rarely the case, and never so on a large forum.  You will always get people who don't understand the etiquette, or piss people off, or look for opportunities to get butthurt, or behave in a way that's otherwise detrimental to the community.  And if you don't do anything about it, it only takes a few to wipe out the quality of a forum.

    But then, that's only *my* opinion (that the primary value of this place is the fact that it brings together a huge knowledge-base and people who want to learn).  If the community evolves to something that no longer grabs me, I'll move on.




    In my eyes this is already the case in one instance, and there is nothing to do about it really. Not that it's a deal breaker, but I could almost garuntee there would be increase in user accounts and participation in general, which would in turn increase advertisement revenue, and maybe even better hardware eventually :smile:

    That would be an incentive that shroomery could offer over most other sites. Don't get me wrong, I love this place, but I love freedom more.


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