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Angel_Above
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DMT Extraction - Layers not separating?
#14305316 - 04/17/11 09:45 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I've done extractions before. I'm not sure what is going on this time, but for some reason the layers of Naphtha and lye/bark/water are not separating fast enough. I mix the stuff as soon as I see there's a separation, but when I've done it before I used to be able to mix it about 8 times a day.
The problem was I took out about 200 mL of naphtha yesterday, but the problem is I put about 350-almost 400 mL of naphtha in there 3 days ago... and I don't get where the naphtha is going?
Last night I added another 300 mL, and this was around 10 Pm. It's now 12 hours later, and only about 1/4 of the naphtha I added yesterday has separated.
Did I do something wrong?
I'm doing a 250 gram lye and 250 gram bark extraction.
My room is a little cold, but I even used a heating pad on "low" and a lamp on it when I was trying to get it to separate, but it didn.t
I mean they can't readily mix together because the solvent is nonpolar, so I don't understand what's going wrong here?
Any help would be great. I'd post this in chemistry but I don't know if it's a chemistry problem.
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bholzer
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14305333 - 04/17/11 09:49 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Angel_Above said: I've done extractions before. I'm not sure what is going on this time, but for some reason the layers of Naphtha and lye/bark/water are not separating fast enough. I mix the stuff as soon as I see there's a separation, but when I've done it before I used to be able to mix it about 8 times a day.
The problem was I took out about 200 mL of naphtha yesterday, but the problem is I put about 350-almost 400 mL of naphtha in there 3 days ago... and I don't get where the naphtha is going?
Last night I added another 300 mL, and this was around 10 Pm. It's now 12 hours later, and only about 1/4 of the naphtha I added yesterday has separated.
Did I do something wrong?
I'm doing a 250 gram lye and 250 gram bark extraction.
My room is a little cold, but I even used a heating pad on "low" and a lamp on it when I was trying to get it to separate, but it didn.t
I mean they can't readily mix together because the solvent is nonpolar, so I don't understand what's going wrong here?
Any help would be great. I'd post this in chemistry but I don't know if it's a chemistry problem.
It sounds to me like you may have added a little too much naptha. It may have done a kind of super-saturation kind of deal causing it to not separate well. Did you shake your jar, or just roll it around to mix it?
I know you want the process to hurry, but my advice would be to keep the jar warm, and just let it sit for a day. See how its doing, and depending on how much comes out, let it sit for another day.
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Use these substances wisely, they have the ability to cause life altering realizations.
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Angel_Above
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14305376 - 04/17/11 10:02 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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And I do it over 3 days because if I repeat this step 2-3x, I ALWAYS get over 1% yield with this method.
There "might" be more water than usual in the mix, but I don't see why that would make the nonpolar solvent and the polar water not separate?
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Angel_Above
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: bholzer]
#14305385 - 04/17/11 10:05 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Do you mean let it sit for a day without mixing it, just letting it sit on a heating pad on low or something for a few hours?
And I may have used too much naphtha, but since it's 250 g I figured 250-400 mL was a good number.
Also, it's in my closet which is kind of cold (around 70 degrees tops)
this might contribute, BUT, like I said, I did the same method before. Every single step, and I had much more naphtha. The 200-300 mL I took out last night I put in the freezer just to see what's up. Then I'll save the naphtha I have now and take out the stuff I put in and do it again. Hopefully getting around 2 grams.
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vegantoker
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: bholzer]
#14305411 - 04/17/11 10:09 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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When I have this problem adding a bit more water to the mix helps it separate.
Why so much napatha though? I normally put in 40-60 ml per pull. Any more than that and it seems you just end up with a less saturated napatha solution per pull. Ime. Maybe your using a larger jar than I do, Idk, just figured I would throw that out there.
Good luck!
-------------------- "Be happy for no reason. It is your childlike joy that will lead you home. Do you remember?" Dennis McKenna is writing a new book, consider donating to help make it happen: the-brotherhood-of-the-screaming-abyss
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bholzer
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14305415 - 04/17/11 10:10 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Angel_Above said: Do you mean let it sit for a day without mixing it, just letting it sit on a heating pad on low or something for a few hours?
And I may have used too much naphtha, but since it's 250 g I figured 250-400 mL was a good number.
Also, it's in my closet which is kind of cold (around 70 degrees tops)
this might contribute, BUT, like I said, I did the same method before. Every single step, and I had much more naphtha. The 200-300 mL I took out last night I put in the freezer just to see what's up. Then I'll save the naphtha I have now and take out the stuff I put in and do it again. Hopefully getting around 2 grams.
It does seem odd that you've used the same method, but are getting results. Sometimes weird shit just happens.
Yea, I would let it sit on the heating pad on a low setting for a good bit longer than usual. Try not to disturb it so that the naptha has less reason to sink into the lye-water.
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Use these substances wisely, they have the ability to cause life altering realizations.
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Angel_Above
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: bholzer]
#14305528 - 04/17/11 10:39 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well the normal STB tek by Nature_Boy had 100 grams lye/bark and added 150 mL of naphtha.
And I'm using a windshield wiper sized jug. I'm telling you, this worked wonderfully before. I use this much napthha because 100 mL in a jug this size is SOOO hard to get out because it makes such a thin looking layer than when I pipette the naphta out, I get a bunch of dirty stuff (I am very careful though and I do a sodium carbonate wash as well as a re-X everytime)
And like I already said, I ALREADY have more water in the mix than any extraction I've ever done. Should I still add water? I don't want to ruin the method.
The only difference is I got my powdered bark frmo another source (I know about the trouble with powdered bark, so this jug method factors in extra water anyway already, ironically enough haha).
If I should still add water or some lye or something, be sure to let me know.
As of now I'm holding off on the water until you guys say or say not to. Then I'll, once I get home from work in 8 hours, I'll use my heating pad and let it sit for about 2-3 hours.
Edited by Angel_Above (04/17/11 10:40 AM)
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vegantoker
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14305605 - 04/17/11 11:00 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yes I would add more water. You can add more lye too if you want to be sure the ph stays right, but I wouldnt say adding lye would be necessary. Powdered bark is reported by many to need some extra water to separate properly and that has been my experience also.
-------------------- "Be happy for no reason. It is your childlike joy that will lead you home. Do you remember?" Dennis McKenna is writing a new book, consider donating to help make it happen: the-brotherhood-of-the-screaming-abyss
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Mushroom25
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14305623 - 04/17/11 11:05 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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With powdered bark a good Acid/base extraction is alot better then a STB. I would not even bother with STB, its a good tek to get into extractions but there are alot better ones out there. Acid/Bases are great since you have no root bark material left in the solution when you add the naphtha, you also use way less sodium hydroxide which is a plus and I find the end result alot more pure then STB .
Well that's my 2 cents hope it helps
Edited by Mushroom25 (04/17/11 11:06 AM)
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vegantoker
I like carrots.



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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Mushroom25]
#14305662 - 04/17/11 11:15 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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It's a bit late for that. He's already doing a STB.
-------------------- "Be happy for no reason. It is your childlike joy that will lead you home. Do you remember?" Dennis McKenna is writing a new book, consider donating to help make it happen: the-brotherhood-of-the-screaming-abyss
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Mushroom25
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: vegantoker]
#14305668 - 04/17/11 11:16 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yea, My post was more or less for future reference,
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Angel_Above
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Mushroom25]
#14305729 - 04/17/11 11:27 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'll add water before work and report back on what happened later. Ciao!
My crystals in my freezer from the 200-300 mL look nice
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vegantoker
I like carrots.



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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14305754 - 04/17/11 11:33 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Cool, I hope it works for you.
-------------------- "Be happy for no reason. It is your childlike joy that will lead you home. Do you remember?" Dennis McKenna is writing a new book, consider donating to help make it happen: the-brotherhood-of-the-screaming-abyss
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cogent



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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14305766 - 04/17/11 11:36 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Angel_Above said: I'll add water before work and report back on what happened later. Ciao!
How much water did you start with?
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Nature Boy
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14306280 - 04/17/11 01:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Stop all the speculating. I know where the naphtha is. The naphtha is mechanically caught up in the spaces in the pieces of bark aka "the interstices". If you tap on the jar with your palm and hold the jar up to a strong light, you will see tiny "bubbles" of it float up like carbonation in a beer glass.
Not to worry. When you put the rest of your naphtha back in the jar and agitate, some portion of the volume of "lost" naphtha will naturally exchange itself with the recently added stuff. Eventually, when the bark is completely macerated by the lye, all the naphtha will be released and recovered.
This phenomena happens to a greater or lesser degree every time. Its normal!!! What surprises me most is you never noticed it before! 
N.B.
-------------------- All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.
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Angel_Above
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Nature Boy]
#14307549 - 04/17/11 04:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nature Boy said: Stop all the speculating. I know where the naphtha is. The naphtha is mechanically caught up in the spaces in the pieces of bark aka "the interstices". If you tap on the jar with your palm and hold the jar up to a strong light, you will see tiny "bubbles" of it float up like carbonation in a beer glass.
Not to worry. When you put the rest of your naphtha back in the jar and agitate, some portion of the volume of "lost" naphtha will naturally exchange itself with the recently added stuff. Eventually, when the bark is completely macerated by the lye, all the naphtha will be released and recovered.
This phenomena happens to a greater or lesser degree every time. Its normal!!! What surprises me most is you never noticed it before! 
N.B.
Ha I might have noticed it, I just never thought anything of it. What do I do from this point? I added a little bit of water and the naphtha level is still the same as where it was before I left for work 5 hours ago.
Should I add anything? I still have the naphtha that was in the freezer that I can add if necessary, but this time I used about 300 mL of naphtha when I put it in the jug.
Thanks again everyone, especially NB! You're always so helpful with my questions
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Angel_Above
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14309451 - 04/17/11 10:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Anyone know? I have the naphtha from the freezing step left over (got about .4 grams so far.. which is diappointing!) Should I add this napthha to the mix or wait for the rest of the naphtha already in there to separate?
The naphtha in the jar still has not separated.
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vegantoker
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14309974 - 04/18/11 12:43 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I don't think adding more water or napatha is going to hurt anything. I say try more water/lye and if that doesn't work add more napatha. I like my jars to separate out within 30 minutes at most and if they don't, adding water has always fixed the problem for me. I just use quart size ball jars though.
Are you even getting a thin layer of napatha? I ask because with what nature boy said in mind it might be your jug causing you problems. A smaller diameter jar would make any layer of napatha you might be getting thicker. You know what I mean?
Let us know if you get it to work I'd like to know what the solution to this problem ends up being.
-------------------- "Be happy for no reason. It is your childlike joy that will lead you home. Do you remember?" Dennis McKenna is writing a new book, consider donating to help make it happen: the-brotherhood-of-the-screaming-abyss
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muistrue
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14310165 - 04/18/11 01:49 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Adding some rock salt should do the trick.
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Angel_Above
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: muistrue]
#14311924 - 04/18/11 01:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I added the naphtha because I realized I had NO extra jar for it.. lol. But what I ended up doing was having my jug under my bed near the vent so it gets hot (not sure if it's too hot or not...) but it's definitely not as cold as my closet.
It separated a lot, and it just seemed overall to be a better choice.
I think I'll keep it under my bed because I don't see the heating system of my house raising the temperature to 70 and the vent heating it up to run it.
Like I said before, I don't care how dirty my naphtha is in terms of dark color or whatever, I do a sodium carbonate wash as well as recrystallization.
Should I keep it under my bed or am I running the risk of it getting too hot and becoming DMT-n-Oxide?
That's the last thing I want.
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bholzer
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14312129 - 04/18/11 01:39 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Angel_Above said: I added the naphtha because I realized I had NO extra jar for it.. lol. But what I ended up doing was having my jug under my bed near the vent so it gets hot (not sure if it's too hot or not...) but it's definitely not as cold as my closet.
It separated a lot, and it just seemed overall to be a better choice.
I think I'll keep it under my bed because I don't see the heating system of my house raising the temperature to 70 and the vent heating it up to run it.
Like I said before, I don't care how dirty my naphtha is in terms of dark color or whatever, I do a sodium carbonate wash as well as recrystallization.
Should I keep it under my bed or am I running the risk of it getting too hot and becoming DMT-n-Oxide?
That's the last thing I want.
I don't think you risk oxidation unless evaping, I could be wrong though.
--------------------
Use these substances wisely, they have the ability to cause life altering realizations.
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Angel_Above
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: bholzer]
#14312292 - 04/18/11 02:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
bholzer said:
Quote:
Angel_Above said: I added the naphtha because I realized I had NO extra jar for it.. lol. But what I ended up doing was having my jug under my bed near the vent so it gets hot (not sure if it's too hot or not...) but it's definitely not as cold as my closet.
It separated a lot, and it just seemed overall to be a better choice.
I think I'll keep it under my bed because I don't see the heating system of my house raising the temperature to 70 and the vent heating it up to run it.
Like I said before, I don't care how dirty my naphtha is in terms of dark color or whatever, I do a sodium carbonate wash as well as recrystallization.
Should I keep it under my bed or am I running the risk of it getting too hot and becoming DMT-n-Oxide?
That's the last thing I want.
I don't think you risk oxidation unless evaping, I could be wrong though.
Wow... so I let it sit under my bed about 30 minutes as I was doing my daily routine, and it started separating already!
I think I'll keep it here to see what happens. I hope you're right. n-oxide is so weak, harsh, and evil feeling.
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bholzer
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14312324 - 04/18/11 02:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Angel_Above said:
Quote:
bholzer said:
Quote:
Angel_Above said: I added the naphtha because I realized I had NO extra jar for it.. lol. But what I ended up doing was having my jug under my bed near the vent so it gets hot (not sure if it's too hot or not...) but it's definitely not as cold as my closet.
It separated a lot, and it just seemed overall to be a better choice.
I think I'll keep it under my bed because I don't see the heating system of my house raising the temperature to 70 and the vent heating it up to run it.
Like I said before, I don't care how dirty my naphtha is in terms of dark color or whatever, I do a sodium carbonate wash as well as recrystallization.
Should I keep it under my bed or am I running the risk of it getting too hot and becoming DMT-n-Oxide?
That's the last thing I want.
I don't think you risk oxidation unless evaping, I could be wrong though.
Wow... so I let it sit under my bed about 30 minutes as I was doing my daily routine, and it started separating already!
I think I'll keep it here to see what happens. I hope you're right. n-oxide is so weak, harsh, and evil feeling.
Awesome, I'm glad it's working for you! Keep it up.
I've used a hot water bath to speed up separation before, and ended up with perfect white crystals, so I don't think you'll have anything to worry about.
--------------------
Use these substances wisely, they have the ability to cause life altering realizations.
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Angel_Above
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: bholzer]
#14318316 - 04/19/11 04:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Somehow when I mixed it again yesterday afternoon there is LESS naphtha separation than when I checked on it before mixing.
I don't get what to do. I left it under my bed so it could heat up thinking that would help, but it seems less.
Since I added the other naphtha, there's about 450-650 mL of naphtha in there, and I probably can only take out about 150 at this point in time.
Is my extraction just done? Should I stop here or keep it going?
Thanks shroomerites
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bholzer
quasi-scientist



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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14318338 - 04/19/11 04:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Angel_Above said: Somehow when I mixed it again yesterday afternoon there is LESS naphtha separation than when I checked on it before mixing.
I don't get what to do. I left it under my bed so it could heat up thinking that would help, but it seems less.
Since I added the other naphtha, there's about 450-650 mL of naphtha in there, and I probably can only take out about 150 at this point in time.
Is my extraction just done? Should I stop here or keep it going?
Thanks shroomerites
You should always be able to pull out roughly as much as you put in.
Somebody said something earlier about tapping the jar to release the trapped naptha, give that a shot. Just tap it gently on a countertop a few times and see if some naptha starts to rise.
--------------------
Use these substances wisely, they have the ability to cause life altering realizations.
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muistrue
Inspired by the mystery


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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14318373 - 04/19/11 04:23 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
FractalDust said: Adding some rock salt should do the trick.
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Angel_Above
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: muistrue]
#14318490 - 04/19/11 04:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Is that the salt that you use to de-ice sidewalks and things of that sort?
Should I get a certain brand? I assume that most of those are mixes of a bunch of chemicals, will that alter the pH or anything in the mix? How much rock salt as well?
I'm sure it's good advice, but I feel i need to do more extracting out of you than I do with this jug
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bholzer
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14318512 - 04/19/11 04:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Angel_Above said: Is that the salt that you use to de-ice sidewalks and things of that sort?
Should I get a certain brand? I assume that most of those are mixes of a bunch of chemicals, will that alter the pH or anything in the mix? How much rock salt as well?
I'm sure it's good advice, but I feel i need to do more extracting out of you than I do with this jug 
Rock salt actually doesn't have chemicals in it. Just the salt. It's commonly used for home-made ice cream. You can probably find it at walmart or a similar store.
--------------------
Use these substances wisely, they have the ability to cause life altering realizations.
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Mushroom25
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14318563 - 04/19/11 05:04 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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In the future your best bet is to start doing A/B with powered root bark, A/B's are Superior
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Angel_Above
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Mushroom25]
#14318624 - 04/19/11 05:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mushroom25 said: In the future your best bet is to start doing A/B with powered root bark, A/B's are Superior
Yes I'm learning that now :-\
For the next 250 grams I'll do that.
How much rock salt do I add though?
Would epsom salt be different?
Edited by Angel_Above (04/19/11 05:21 PM)
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muistrue
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14318672 - 04/19/11 05:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I recommend rock salt because it's pure with nothing else added, a lot of salt has additives which will cause problems. There's no exact amount to add it's the same as with everything else when doing extractions just go by feeling. Saturating the solution with salt will encourage the layers to separate.
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Ogla



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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14318678 - 04/19/11 05:28 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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i didnt bother to read most of the replies, but if ur solvent is not separating u might have put too much Mimosa Bark (or whatever) in ur basified water.. U can fix this by adding more basified water to ur mix. U may have to pour access into a 2nd container. This is y i like using milk jugs. U shouldnt need to add salt. Hope this helps
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Ogla



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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Ogla]
#14318702 - 04/19/11 05:34 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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also, i think sometimes what happens is the basified water/bark mix is sometimes so thick that it clings to the walls of the container ur using, making it appear its not separating. Could be wrong, but i think adding more water solution will fix this
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Nature Boy
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14318719 - 04/19/11 05:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Angel_Above said: Somehow when I mixed it again yesterday afternoon there is LESS naphtha separation than when I checked on it before mixing.
I don't get what to do. I left it under my bed so it could heat up thinking that would help, but it seems less.
Since I added the other naphtha, there's about 450-650 mL of naphtha in there, and I probably can only take out about 150 at this point in time.
Is my extraction just done? Should I stop here or keep it going?
Thanks shroomerites
OK...stop right there. All these remedial actions would NEVER have been needed if you had simply used the recommended volume of naphtha. I'm so tired of explaining principles, but, here I go again. 
There is only so much DMT in the bark. Its a relatively tiny amount...lets say 1 full gram. The whole purpose in keeping the naphtha volume SMALL is so that the concentration of DMT in a small volume will become HIGH...as high as possible (nearly saturated), and therefore can easily be precipitated out by lowering the temperature and dropping the solubility. That's the central principle to this tek!!!!!!
If you use a fuck-ton of naphtha, the DMT concentration will NEVER be anything other than LOW...and you will NEVER and I mean NEVER get it to freeze precipitate. You will then be FORCED to evaporate and/or freeze precipitate. WHY is this such a difficult concept???????????
EVERY SINGLE step in the process has been set out in mass and volume to GUARANTEE success. There is absolutely NOTHING arbitrary in the method on page one. Every time you meaningfully depart from the recommended materials, proportions, volumes, masses in the tek you INSURE a problem will arise.
If you don't understand basic chemistry principles, JUST FOLLOW THE TEK...PLEASE!!!!!!!!!
Also...there is NO NEED to do ANYTHING about your "missing" naphtha volume. Obviously its NOT missing. Its IN THE JAR. Its just caught up MECHANICALLY in the interstices in the bark...the little nooks and crannies that can trap bubbles by the hundreds, if not thousands. As the bark turns to mush, those interstices disappear, and the naphtha will magically re-appear. You don't have to do ANYTHING except exercise patience.
I surely hope this explanation helps. I suffer terribly watching people flail and fail when the answers are so self-evident. Its really quite simple.
Best,
N.B.
-------------------- All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.
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Angel_Above
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Ogla]
#14318733 - 04/19/11 05:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
losfreddy said: also, i think sometimes what happens is the basified water/bark mix is sometimes so thick that it clings to the walls of the container ur using, making it appear its not separating. Could be wrong, but i think adding more water solution will fix this
I have already added enough water and the problem has not gone away. I got epsom salt with 100% magnesium sulfate as the active, I don't see it saying inactive anyway
I'll just get the rock salt and add that.
Thanks for the help guys. If you think I should add lye instead I have some of that as well. The difference in bark vs. lye added is about 2-4 grams... I'm not sure if that's significatnt.
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Nature Boy
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14318742 - 04/19/11 05:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Angel_Above said:
Quote:
losfreddy said: also, i think sometimes what happens is the basified water/bark mix is sometimes so thick that it clings to the walls of the container ur using, making it appear its not separating. Could be wrong, but i think adding more water solution will fix this
I have already added enough water and the problem has not gone away. I got epsom salt with 100% magnesium sulfate as the active, I don't see it saying inactive anyway
I'll just get the rock salt and add that.
Thanks for the help guys. If you think I should add lye instead I have some of that as well. The difference in bark vs. lye added is about 2-4 grams... I'm not sure if that's significatnt.
Apparently I'm too late.
N.B.
-------------------- All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.
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Ogla



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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Nature Boy]
#14318746 - 04/19/11 05:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thanks for that Answer Nature Boy. I have had this happen to me before and couldnt figure out what was going on. Use less naphtha.
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Angel_Above
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Nature Boy]
#14318750 - 04/19/11 05:46 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nature Boy said:
Quote:
Angel_Above said: Somehow when I mixed it again yesterday afternoon there is LESS naphtha separation than when I checked on it before mixing.
I don't get what to do. I left it under my bed so it could heat up thinking that would help, but it seems less.
Since I added the other naphtha, there's about 450-650 mL of naphtha in there, and I probably can only take out about 150 at this point in time.
Is my extraction just done? Should I stop here or keep it going?
Thanks shroomerites
OK...stop right there. All these remedial actions would NEVER have been needed if you had simply used the recommended volume of naphtha. I'm so tired of explaining principles, but, here I go again. 
There is only so much DMT in the bark. Its a relatively tiny amount...lets say 1 full gram. The whole purpose in keeping the naphtha volume SMALL is so that the concentration of DMT in a small volume will become HIGH...as high as possible (nearly saturated), and therefore can easily be precipitated out by lowering the temperature and dropping the solubility. That's the central principle to this tek!!!!!!
If you use a fuck-ton of naphtha, the DMT concentration will NEVER be anything other than LOW...and you will NEVER and I mean NEVER get it to freeze precipitate. You will then be FORCED to evaporate and/or freeze precipitate. WHY is this such a difficult concept???????????
EVERY SINGLE step in the process has been set out in mass and volume to GUARANTEE success. There is absolutely NOTHING arbitrary in the method on page one. Every time you meaningfully depart from the recommended materials, proportions, volumes, masses in the tek you INSURE a problem will arise.
If you don't understand basic chemistry principles, JUST FOLLOW THE TEK...PLEASE!!!!!!!!!
Also...there is NO NEED to do ANYTHING about your "missing" naphtha volume. Obviously its NOT missing. Its IN THE JAR. Its just caught up MECHANICALLY in the interstices in the bark...the little nooks and crannies that can trap bubbles by the hundreds, if not thousands. As the bark turns to mush, those interstices disappear, and the naphtha will magically re-appear. You don't have to do ANYTHING except exercise patience.
I surely hope this explanation helps. I suffer terribly watching people flail and fail when the answers are so self-evident. Its really quite simple.
Best,
N.B.
Well whatever I did what I could to follow your tek (150 ml naphtha for 100 grams lye/bark... i just did 300ish for 250...)
I'll just let it sit I guess but do you have any idea on a time estimate?
And thanks for the help... but up until I added the additional naphtha, I had the same damn problem with it being in the interstitial space...
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Angel_Above
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Nature Boy]
#14318756 - 04/19/11 05:47 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nature Boy said:
Quote:
Angel_Above said:
Quote:
losfreddy said: also, i think sometimes what happens is the basified water/bark mix is sometimes so thick that it clings to the walls of the container ur using, making it appear its not separating. Could be wrong, but i think adding more water solution will fix this
I have already added enough water and the problem has not gone away. I got epsom salt with 100% magnesium sulfate as the active, I don't see it saying inactive anyway
I'll just get the rock salt and add that.
Thanks for the help guys. If you think I should add lye instead I have some of that as well. The difference in bark vs. lye added is about 2-4 grams... I'm not sure if that's significatnt.
Apparently I'm too late.
N.B.
Chill the out the water adding reference was for the original process.
I've adde dno additional water or salt or anything
no need for that
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Mushroom25
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14318767 - 04/19/11 05:51 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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The prob with the STB is with powdered bark it really can suck, with emulsion or the darkened naptha being the main problems hence why I advocate a good A/B over the STB with powered bark
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Angel_Above
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Mushroom25]
#14319543 - 04/19/11 08:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I apologize if I was lashing out in my last few posts. Well I haven't added anything, I guess what I'll do is stop mixing for 24 hours, take out what naphtha I can and store it, then see if the rest of the naphtha will surface over the next week.
Hopefully I can pull at least a 1g yield out of this mess. Already got .5 ish.
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Nature Boy
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14321549 - 04/20/11 04:22 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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No problem A_A. What I don't understand is that folks on this site are used to waiting, what, 6 weeks for a crop of mushrooms, but haven't the patience to wait a week for a gram of DMT???
Time and patience are your friend. Minimal effort is involved in success. In fact, the LESS you do, the better. Even with no agitation whatsoever (but the slow passage of time) the DMT would ultimately be released from the bark by the degradation of the strong base, be freebased by the same chemical (NaOH) and migrate by diffusion down its concentration gradient into the naphtha! You literally could do NOTHING following the dissolving of the NaOH into the water, adding the bark, and by simply letting the naphtha float on the top for a week (no shaking, no seeming loss into the interstices) and if you were patient and ignored the jar (as if you went on vacation) you would be astonished at the result!
If folks could just grasp the underlying principles, I would never have had to make one follow-up post to the original tek.
You have actually done a service if lots of people read this.
N.B.
-------------------- All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.
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Angel_Above
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Nature Boy]
#14324470 - 04/20/11 06:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well I waited until today leaving it be... and there's literally only about 30 mL of naphtha I was able to pull up.
What would you suggest from here on out? I haven't added anything yet, and I'm willing to be patient. I can leave it be for as long as need be, but I'd like to know if the wait will yield some or if there is a chance that 2 months can go by and it is still stuck in that space.
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bholzer
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14324561 - 04/20/11 07:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Angel_Above said: Well I waited until today leaving it be... and there's literally only about 30 mL of naphtha I was able to pull up.
What would you suggest from here on out? I haven't added anything yet, and I'm willing to be patient. I can leave it be for as long as need be, but I'd like to know if the wait will yield some or if there is a chance that 2 months can go by and it is still stuck in that space.
Okay, post a list of all the things you've tried, just so we can see it all in one place.
--------------------
Use these substances wisely, they have the ability to cause life altering realizations.
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Nature Boy
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14326317 - 04/21/11 04:15 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ok...take the jar in question, place it on a wooden table or bench. Jiggle it gently back and forth without lifting off the table, tapping one edge of the bottom of the jar, then the other. Look through the solution as best you can. Use a flashlight or bright table lamp.
Do you see any tiny bubbles of naphtha floating to the surface? Look carefully, then report back. Lets find the pesky lost volume and try some remedial actions.
N.B.
-------------------- All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.
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Angel_Above
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: bholzer]
#14326799 - 04/21/11 08:43 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'll go all the way from the beginning. Added 250 g of lye to some water, around 400-500 mL of distilled so it had a lot of room to dissolve. Added that to a jug, and filled it to where my old tek said to fill it to (it ended up being a little more water than I usually put in because I poured a little too much).
Added the bark, mixed it around and let it sit for 24 hours. THen I added the naphtha, about 350 mL, mixed every time I saw the layers had separated over 3 days, and pulled about 250-300 mL of dmt-enriched naphtha.
Let this sit in the freezer for about 36 hours, and during this time I added another 250 mL of naphtha to the DMT mix.
I put some of that from the freezer in too .... and that is where I'm at today. I added a smidgeon of water before adding the second naphtha amount because that's when the layers weren't separating. THe amount of water that I have added as extra from the beginning amounts to a small amount, but it is more than I'm familiar with in there.
And N.B.... I put it next to a light. I'm not sure I see tiny bubbles, it's just too dark of a mix. There's definitely a noticable layer of separation (not near the amount it should be at the Volume of naphtha I added) and when I put it near the light it seems like there's 3 layers. One of naphtha, one of a mix of dark naphtha and lye/bark/water (i know water/naphtha can't mix, I'm just giving my assumption as of what it is), then the rest is the lye/water/bark.
I didn't see bubbles but that caught my eye. The amount of naphtha that I can visibly see separated is probably only 30-50 mL worth, because I squeezed the jug and it was barely at the top of the jug, just enough to cover the cap.
Edited by Angel_Above (04/21/11 08:46 AM)
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Mushroom25
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14326982 - 04/21/11 09:53 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Sounds like you got the brown/darkened naphtha, a by product of doing a STB with powdered material.
Get more bark and start a proper extraction using a A/B, STB has more problems with emulsion and darkened naptha then any other tek out there,
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Angel_Above
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Mushroom25]
#14327027 - 04/21/11 10:06 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Don't have any more bark, thank you though..
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Angel_Above
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14332081 - 04/22/11 07:40 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'll just let it sit in my closet. But are there NO corrective remedial steps I can do at this point?
The level of naphtha is still quite low. I have the funds to get whatever is needed to speed up the alkaloids migrating into the solvent, but if this is F.U.B.A.R. and there's nothing that can be done, let me know.
Edited by Angel_Above (04/22/11 10:42 AM)
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Angel_Above
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14333299 - 04/22/11 01:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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The only thing I have done in the past 3 days or so was move it to under my bed to see if heat would maybe help it.
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cogent



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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14337541 - 04/23/11 09:13 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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How much bark did you use?
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Angel_Above
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: cogent]
#14339838 - 04/23/11 06:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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250 g lye 250 gram bark
update!:
Same shit... hardly separation I just have been leaving it be..
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Angel_Above
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Nature Boy]
#14339940 - 04/23/11 06:28 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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And I still cannot find bubbles floating to the top or anything like that. I'm wondering...
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cogent



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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14340024 - 04/23/11 06:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Angel_Above said: 250 g lye 250 gram bark
update!:
Same shit... hardly separation I just have been leaving it be..
My buddy had the same issue on his first attempts. What he has done since has yielded amazing results and in a much shorter time frame with no naphtha lost. He used a 1:1:15 ratio of (1)Bark, (1)NaOH, and (15)water. For example, if 50grms of Bark and NaOH are used then one would use 750ml of H20. He never had any issues after using those ratios of the naphtha getting stuck in the MHRB. He worked with 50grm of powdered bark at a time to perfect his technique. If you used 250grms of bark you would realistically need 3.75 liters of H20 which is a huge amount to work with. The root bark turns to a thick putty if not enough water is used and that will most certainly trap your naphtha. I would honestly order more bark and just start over using much smaller amounts of rootbark (50grms) and see if that ratio works for you. If you cant do that I would try to transfer your solution to a larger container and add more water and stir it into the mixture with a Stainless spoon.
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lumadaylight9
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: cogent]
#14340537 - 04/23/11 08:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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my friend had the same problem with the layers seperating and only after turning up the heat for 3 or so days the layers eventually seperated
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Angel_Above
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: cogent]
#14343929 - 04/24/11 03:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ironically I added a gallon of distilled water in total (well give or take 200 mL).
About 3.5L worth in this windshield wiper jug... the rest was used for the wash.
I mean the ONLY thing I want to know is 1.: am I wasting my time or will patience MAYBE (yes, i'll accept a maybe) pay off? I see NO POINT in holding an extremely illegal jug in my house for months if you guys already know its FUBAR.
Thanks for the advice so far. Hopefully someone learns something. No offense to the lot of you, but I'm more waiting on a reply from 1-2 people here.
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bholzer
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14344000 - 04/24/11 03:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Angel_Above said: Ironically I added a gallon of distilled water in total (well give or take 200 mL).
About 3.5L worth in this windshield wiper jug... the rest was used for the wash.
I mean the ONLY thing I want to know is 1.: am I wasting my time or will patience MAYBE (yes, i'll accept a maybe) pay off? I see NO POINT in holding an extremely illegal jug in my house for months if you guys already know its FUBAR.
Thanks for the advice so far. Hopefully someone learns something. No offense to the lot of you, but I'm more waiting on a reply from 1-2 people here.
It sounds to me like it's just turned into a jar of despair and failed hopes and dreams. I would say leave it alone completely for another coupl of days, as a last ditch effort. If that doesn't work, it looks like you need to start from scratch.
--------------------
Use these substances wisely, they have the ability to cause life altering realizations.
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vodka please
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: bholzer]
#14344025 - 04/24/11 03:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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When is an appropriate time to add heat to get the layers to separate better?
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bholzer
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: vodka please]
#14344195 - 04/24/11 04:20 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
vodka please said: When is an appropriate time to add heat to get the layers to separate better?
Right after you roll the naptha around in the lye-water-bark mixture. It will facilitate batter absorption and faster separation.
--------------------
Use these substances wisely, they have the ability to cause life altering realizations.
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Angel_Above
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: bholzer]
#14345112 - 04/24/11 07:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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That's fine as long as I KNOW. I'll have to read up on the A/B Tek for next time for sure. Thanks for all of your help. time to go crazy
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Angel_Above
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14345184 - 04/24/11 07:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Since I don't much care anymore as the 250 g was a gift (I can get 200 more when I feel prepared with the AB tek) I did a hot water bath. We'll see what happens in a bit
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cogent



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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14346467 - 04/24/11 11:02 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Cool cool, well good luck and dont be too bummed if it doesnt work out as planned the first go around. I know my friend's sure didn't.
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Angel_Above
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: cogent]
#14354602 - 04/26/11 11:16 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well... I'm not sure if the naphtha layer is getting larger or not, but when would be a good time to take out the naphtha I have as my latch ditch effor to get some powder/crystals from the mix?
I was thinking that if I let it sit upright as much as possible, doing a hot water bath over the next few days (2-3) that that will yield the most possible available naphtha on the top layer of mix, and from that I can safely say that it is the most naphtha I will ever get out of it. Doing a final freeze/evap and calling it quits for this one until next time?
Let me know what you think.
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Nature Boy
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14355410 - 04/26/11 02:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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Do you have a stainless kitchen tool like a wire whisk or something very similar? You can open the jar and slowly and gently squeeze down on the bark to see if that liberates the missing naphtha...like gently squeezing water out of a sponge. Then carefully withdraw the tool and allow the jar to sit upright for a bit.
Do it in the sink or a painter's bucket in case there is a minor spill.
The FINAL potential avenue (if you are CONVINCED there's naphtha in there) is to strain all the bark out using a colander or large strainer, leaving ONLY LIQUID (presumably water and naphtha) and transfer THAT to a tallish jar for the inevitable separation.
N.B.
-------------------- All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.
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JohnnyConverse
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Nature Boy]
#14360529 - 04/27/11 10:52 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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You did 250 g mhrb 250 gram lye and a gallon of total water?
I will tell you one thing - if you used a gallon of water, that's not enough lye. Your bark is never breaking down and that's why it's never coughing up the emulsed naphtha. You're basing the total volume of solution. It's a ratio of lye:bark&water not a ratio of lye:bark that works in any amount of water.
There's a lot of hate for straight to base, but seriously it's like a 3 step process that gets you a nearly total yield with cheap supplies...That's what we call "good science"
It works just fine with powdered bark, in fact it works better
One longshot you might want to look at is if your naphtha is actually just evaping out of your container. Just a stray thought. If your container is leaking air, you could be losing some since you're heating it.
Edited by JohnnyConverse (04/27/11 06:08 PM)
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Angel_Above
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Registered: 09/25/08
Posts: 5,348
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: JohnnyConverse]
#14365382 - 04/28/11 06:35 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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So this method is worth doing on further extractions, just with a lower amount of water? Man everyone changes what "should" be done in regard to certain contingencies.
I ended up getting frustrated and taking out 125 mL of naphtha (all I could get out) last night and put it in the freezer. Got some little goodies in there. . I'm horrible at eyeballing, but it looks less than last time so we'll go wit .3-.4 grams.
Since I did it last night around 9 PM and it's been 10 and a half hours, I'll keep it in there until 5 PM tonight so it is near 24 hours. My freezer is very very cold.
What should I do with that extra naphtha though? Keep it for a later extraction since it probably has some residual DMT? I will be unable to evaporate, plus if I'm freezing, I don't see evaporating 125 mL yielding more than .1 grams.
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JohnnyConverse
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Registered: 04/10/09
Posts: 268
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Re: DMT Extraction - Layers not separating? [Re: Angel_Above]
#14366450 - 04/28/11 11:35 AM (12 years, 9 months ago) |
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up to you I guess two pipeloads is worth a pull IMO
You can always just dump it back in your naptha.
There's NOTHING wrong with this extraction. STB works very, very well on MHRB, chemically speaking .... all the kinks people hit with it are simple logistical problems
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