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Offlinemexicanjewlucas
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What does Agnostic mean to you?
    #14304667 - 04/17/11 04:30 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

i was asked what my religion was today and i told the person i was agnostic. they then told me i was an atheist and that i should pick a religion that suits my lifestyle and follow it. if that was the case i would be either jewish because my mothers side of the family is or a non practicing follower of the church of england, like my fathers side. i don't think agnosticism are atheism are the same.
to me being agnostic means that if someone can provide proof of a god or higher power then i will believe and pick a religion from their proof, until then i'm undecided about religion.
an atheist doesn't believe in any form of god and even proof won't change their mind.

just wondering what others here think of that.


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Offlinemeatcakeman
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Re: What does Agnostic mean to you? [Re: mexicanjewlucas]
    #14304702 - 04/17/11 05:01 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

i think you're right and the guy you were talking to just has no idea what atheism is.


Quote:

agnostic
–noun
1.
a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as god, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.
2.
a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study.






Quote:

agnosticism
–noun
1.
the doctrine or belief of an agnostic.
2.
an intellectual doctrine or attitude affirming the uncertainty of all claims to ultimate knowledge.





it's a common debate because many people can't define the line between agnosticism and atheism.


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InvisibleTomandjerry58
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Re: What does Agnostic mean to you? [Re: mexicanjewlucas]
    #14304710 - 04/17/11 05:07 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Im agnostic....I believe there is a higher power, everything is part of god and i am part of everything. As it will be when i die. Don't let someone tell you what you should do, religions have there good sides but they have an equal dark side. cheers!


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Offlinecurious mouse
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Re: What does Agnostic mean to you? [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #14304804 - 04/17/11 06:04 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

to me it is this:

you can neither prove nor deny the existence of God


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Offlinepouihi
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Re: What does Agnostic mean to you? [Re: Tomandjerry58]
    #14304898 - 04/17/11 06:54 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

preschooler said:
Im agnostic....I believe there is a higher power, everything is part of god and i am part of everything. As it will be when i die.




but you do believe in something...
An agnostic basically says "I don't know, I haven't got enough proof of existence or non-existence, to affirm for sure one or the other".

mexicanjewlucas, that person you spoke to hasn't got an accurate idea of what "agnostic" and "atheist" mean.
An atheist claims with certainty that god does not exist, and if someone wishes to allege the existence of an ethereal life form they should present proof of it, believers obviously work the other way, they claim that we were obviously put here with some purpose by a higher being and if you wish to discredit it you should prove otherwise.

Agnosticism has nothing to do with believing or not, but yes with having not enough information to do so with 100% certainty.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: What does Agnostic mean to you? [Re: pouihi]
    #14305280 - 04/17/11 09:37 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

An agnostic basically says "I don't know, I haven't got enough proof of existence or non-existence, to affirm for sure one or the other".





If a person says that then they are an ignorant moron.


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OfflineMutantBonobo
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Re: What does Agnostic mean to you? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14305334 - 04/17/11 09:49 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Agnostic is a term I used to describe myself when I don't want militant religionists to assume I fit the caricature they have of atheists in their minds.  Other times I'll call myself a pantheist if I really feel like adding to their confusion.  Still other times, I'll play myself off as a nihilist. 

All religion is bunk, any certitude in the unknowable and/or unprovable is in the very least, self deception.  No one has ever come up with any proof that god exists.  I should not have to take a stand asserting the non-existence of a god (a position usually ascribed to and taken by, self described atheists) any more than I should take a stand asserting the non-existence of the easter bunny.


--------------------
Lois, this family believes in the Easter Bunny.  He died for our sins in that helicopter crash.  Now, if you wanna go to hell, that's fine, but don't drag the rest of us down with you like a mentally handicapped rooster.
- Peter Griffin (Family Guy)


Edited by MutantBonobo (04/17/11 09:56 AM)


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Offlinepouihi
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Re: What does Agnostic mean to you? [Re: MutantBonobo]
    #14306056 - 04/17/11 12:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

An agnostic basically says "I don't know, I haven't got enough proof of existence or non-existence, to affirm for sure one or the other".





If a person says that then they are an ignorant moron.




That's your opinion, although I don't identify myself with agnosticism, I don't see any motive to criticize their position regarding religion.


Quote:

MutantBonobo said:
I should not have to take a stand asserting the non-existence of a god (a position usually ascribed to and taken by, self described atheists) any more than I should take a stand asserting the non-existence of the easter bunny.




My thoughts exactly, if someone wants to make up a story with some character and convince the world that's real, they should present proof and not otherwise, I think that there are plenty of evidence for non existence of god.


--------------------


"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: What does Agnostic mean to you? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14306188 - 04/17/11 12:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

An agnostic basically says "I don't know, I haven't got enough proof of existence or non-existence, to affirm for sure one or the other".





If a person says that then they are an ignorant moron.




Ha, bullshit.  Recognizing the bounds of ones knowledge if far from being ignorant or moronic.


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InvisibleBrainstem
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Re: What does Agnostic mean to you? [Re: DieCommie]
    #14306345 - 04/17/11 01:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Every year new species of organism are discovered around the world, creatures that before were not known to science. Every decade that goes by, we as a race improve our ability to observe and move forward the border of known and unknown, hypothesized and proven. To stand now and declare that we have tested the existence of Erik (or God as he is sometimes known), is premature to say the least.
  Religion suffers from 'Chinese whisper syndrome', in that it is subject to time and the subjective interpretation of fallible minds, and I guarantee that the spark that lit the touch paper of many of the worlds religions had a very different hue to the flame that now burns.
Some say the search for Erik is at an end, I say it's only the end of the beginning.

  The coordinated and moderated first hand experience of mystical states is the way forward. To collect and study experiences from all areas including meditative,deprivatory, psychedelic, also the mental state of schizophrenics and other those suffering from other mental illness are supposed to show correlations with the fore mentioned states.

  Life is a dodecahedron-esque Rubik puzzle and the atheists gave up after five minutes of 'trying'.


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OfflineShroomerette
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Re: What does Agnostic mean to you? [Re: Brainstem]
    #14306898 - 04/17/11 02:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I am atheist and agnostic. You people and your definitions :rolleyes:.


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Offlinepouihi
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Re: What does Agnostic mean to you? [Re: Brainstem]
    #14307097 - 04/17/11 03:33 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Brainstem said:
Every year new species of organism are discovered around the world, creatures that before were not known to science. Every decade that goes by, we as a race improve our ability to observe and move forward the border of known and unknown, hypothesized and proven. To stand now and declare that we have tested the existence of Erik (or God as he is sometimes known), is premature to say the least.
  Religion suffers from 'Chinese whisper syndrome', in that it is subject to time and the subjective interpretation of fallible minds, and I guarantee that the spark that lit the touch paper of many of the worlds religions had a very different hue to the flame that now burns.
Some say the search for Erik is at an end, I say it's only the end of the beginning.

  The coordinated and moderated first hand experience of mystical states is the way forward. To collect and study experiences from all areas including meditative,deprivatory, psychedelic, also the mental state of schizophrenics and other those suffering from other mental illness are supposed to show correlations with the fore mentioned states.

  Life is a dodecahedron-esque Rubik puzzle and the atheists gave up after five minutes of 'trying'.




I agree with your initial line of thought, not the last though.

I consider myself an atheist but that doesn't mean in any way that by being so I'm unaware of the potential our mind has, and I do believe is great.
I know that we have the ability to expand our consciousness our even unconsciousness in many ways, and further more that can lead to a myriad of "places".
Just because I refute the idea that we are all puppets for a god, doesn't mean that I'm least open minded than others, or that I don't accept or have ideas, and thinking that just because one considers him/herself an atheist ends up being a bit limited itself.

I believe in energy, matter, chemistry, among other things, but those are a reality. Decomposing everything to the smallest constituent known to us, allows me to know that we are all a great part of the same, and all live in this great cycle, as the wise Lavoisier said:
"In nature, nothing is created, nothing is destroyed, everything is transformed"


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: What does Agnostic mean to you? [Re: pouihi]
    #14307271 - 04/17/11 04:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OrgoneConclusion said:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

An agnostic basically says "I don't know, I haven't got enough proof of existence or non-existence, to affirm for sure one or the other".



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



If a person says that then they are an ignorant moron.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



That's your opinion, although I don't identify myself with agnosticism, I don't see any motive to criticize their position regarding religion.






It is NOT my opinion nor does it have anything to do with religion. It has to do with logic.

Please explain what would constitute proof of non-existence.


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Offlinemeatcakeman
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Re: What does Agnostic mean to you? [Re: DieCommie]
    #14307336 - 04/17/11 04:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

An agnostic basically says "I don't know, I haven't got enough proof of existence or non-existence, to affirm for sure one or the other".





If a person says that then they are an ignorant moron.




Ha, bullshit.  Recognizing the bounds of ones knowledge if far from being ignorant or moronic.




i undoubtedly concur.


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大开眼界

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Hasta siempre, comandante.
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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: What does Agnostic mean to you? [Re: meatcakeman]
    #14307362 - 04/17/11 04:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yay, another clueless member. Perhaps you can explain what constitutes proof of non-existence.


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Offlinemeatcakeman
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Re: What does Agnostic mean to you? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14307433 - 04/17/11 04:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

one needs no proof. more importantly, however, lack of faith (faith in the humanistic, not religious, sense) doesn't necessarily constitute lack of intellect. it might just be a fair compromise of logistics.


--------------------
大开眼界

:awegroove:
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Hasta siempre, comandante.
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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: What does Agnostic mean to you? [Re: meatcakeman]
    #14307436 - 04/17/11 04:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Way to miss the point. Again and again.


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Offlinemeatcakeman
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Re: What does Agnostic mean to you? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14307449 - 04/17/11 04:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Way to miss the point. Again and again.




way to have no point, perpetuating my claim of your ignorance.


--------------------
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:awegroove:
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Hasta siempre, comandante.
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Offlinemeatcakeman
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Re: What does Agnostic mean to you? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14307455 - 04/17/11 04:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Way to miss the point. Again and again.




if you find yourself to be rather profound, why play the passive mind games?

tell me your point then, oh omniscient one.


--------------------
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Hasta siempre, comandante.
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Offlinepouihi
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Re: What does Agnostic mean to you? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14307610 - 04/17/11 05:02 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OrgoneConclusion said:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

An agnostic basically says "I don't know, I haven't got enough proof of existence or non-existence, to affirm for sure one or the other".



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



If a person says that then they are an ignorant moron.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



That's your opinion, although I don't identify myself with agnosticism, I don't see any motive to criticize their position regarding religion.






It is NOT my opinion nor does it have anything to do with religion. It has to do with logic.

Please explain what would constitute proof of non-existence.




When you affirm something, one could believe you were expressing an opinion, even if it's your logic.

I believe you missed the part where I said I am an atheist, so for me the idea of proving that something that's not exist is ridiculous.
Although billions of people would tell me otherwise, and if you have already engaged this type of subject with theists you know what I'm talking about.

As I said, I do not identify myself with agnosticism but if someone asks me what they stand for, as far as know, is that they haven't got enough knowledge on the subject to support one or the other :shrug:

If that made sense to me I would be an agnostic, if other things made sense I would be a religious person, but none of them do, I am an atheist.


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