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Offlinekataphrakt
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Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate
    #14299148 - 04/16/11 01:02 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I'm sorry if there is already a thread on this, if so please direct me. I made a thread a while ago about my slow pf jar colonization, but that problem was corrected (thanks to you guys) by removing the foil from the jar; a novice mistake, I know :frown:

Since then, the jars quickly began colonizing and I assumed all was fine. However, the jars have remained in the same state for the past 5 days. I hypothesize that this is another problem in gas exchange due to the type of verm I am using (extra fine). Inside the jars I can see that some areas are more dense than others; these dense areas are the uncolonized portions.

I have read that flipping the jars over can promote gas exchange, so I am debating on whether or not to give it a try. However, I am also curious whether or not I could birth the mycelium in the jars to a bulk sub. I'd say all of the jars are at least 50% colonized, two jars are near 90%.

Any advise would be greatly appreciated.


--------------------
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:mushroom2:


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Invisibleslapphappypill
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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: kataphrakt]
    #14299225 - 04/16/11 01:28 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

How long have they been in the jars for? I've left my jars sitting un-touched for 2 months, then birthed.

I personally would say to leave them. If you are anxious, get some more jars and knock up new babies. That way your still doing something and satisfying your urge to fuck with stuff. This way you wont mess with the myc :bigjoint:


--------------------
We think we have freedom, but we're all just mice in a maze....

                   

FYI: I stole all my pix off google! F+ PORN! Here is a shit-ton of porn by yours truly!

I have FINALLY written up a couple teks as to how SHP has done things in the past. DISCLAIMER: This is not for the newbie to mycology, and not going to work for everyone! This is simply what works for one person when other teks and methods have failed miserably!
~~~~~How SHP does their unconventional WBS Prep!! (NO DRY METHOD)~~~~
~~~~~SHP's highly disputed method of doing ALL their work outside of a flow hood or a Still air box!~~~~~
~~~~~Troubles harvesting the side and bottom pins in your mono? Learn how!! Dunking included ;-)~~~~~


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Offlinedeadmandave
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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: kataphrakt]
    #14299233 - 04/16/11 01:30 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The more colonized a cake is the less chance it will contam i.e. If a cake is spawned to a bulk sub. before it is 100% then it has a higher chance to fail. I would let the cakes continue to colonize in their current state, if they never make 100% then chuck em outside, in the mean time I would start some new jars with all the new info acquired :smile:


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Offlinekataphrakt
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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: deadmandave]
    #14299257 - 04/16/11 01:39 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I do have an urge to fuck with stuff too much... lol
The jars were inoculated 22 days ago.

So no one suggests I try mixing two of the 90% colonized jars in with some verm/spent coffee grounds as a bulk sub? The idea sounded so appealing. Yes, the added risk of contamination is there since the cakes weren't fully colonized. However, I feel I could keep everything sterile enough.

I have 6 jars total, and an LC, so I feel I could at least experiment with 2 jars.


--------------------
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:mushroom2:


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Offlinedeadmandave
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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: slapphappypill]
    #14299265 - 04/16/11 01:41 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

slapphappypill said:
How long have they been in the jars for? I've left my jars sitting un-touched for 2 months, then birthed.

I personally would say to leave them. If you are anxious, get some more jars and knock up new babies. That way your still doing something and satisfying your urge to fuck with stuff. This way you wont mess with the myc :bigjoint:



:biggrin::thumbup:


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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: kataphrakt]
    #14299270 - 04/16/11 01:43 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well, you really cannot spawn uncolonized cake to bulk.

You can wash off the uncolonized part and use the rest though.

Good luck,

JD


--------------------
Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes

Myco-tek.org


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Offlinemabachko
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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: Javadog]
    #14299287 - 04/16/11 01:51 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Go for it!!
If you have LC, you can always make more.
By trying it, you will know for sure.


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Offlinekataphrakt
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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: mabachko]
    #14303426 - 04/16/11 09:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I had also asked about flipping the jars over. Apparently this adds contam risk (or so I've read). Anyone had success with this?


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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: kataphrakt]
    #14303552 - 04/16/11 09:42 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I have done it because the bottoms of some of my early jars
were too compacted.  I like to think that it helped,
but this is hard to confirm.

The reality is that inverting a jar cannot to the verm
layer any good, especially considering that while the
cake has been colonizing, the substrate has been drying
and contracting, leaving space above the sub and the verm,
or at least more space, and it stands to reason that the
flipping has the potential to assist a contam vector in
getting past the barrier.

In any case, good luck,

JD


--------------------
Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes

Myco-tek.org


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Offlinekataphrakt
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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: Javadog]
    #14303781 - 04/16/11 10:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks for the input. This is basically my first run anyway, so I'll flip two jars as an experiment. I wish I could travel forward in time and harvest these babies.


--------------------
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:mushroom2:


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Offlinekataphrakt
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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: kataphrakt]
    #14314136 - 04/18/11 09:50 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)



I know the pics aren't the best quality... but the only digital camera I own is on my phone. In this experiment, I'll be putting GE first since it will most likely make or break the outcome. As I stated earlier, this is just an experiment with stalled jars, so it may fruit but I'm not getting my hopes too high. I'll be fanning/misting regularly, and hope to have some pin porn soon. Can one mist/fan too much?


--------------------
No glove, no love.
:mushroom2:


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Offlinedeadmandave
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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: kataphrakt]
    #14317053 - 04/19/11 12:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

You can mist too much by letting water pool which is a breeding ground for contams. The only time you can have too much fae is if it drops humidity too much and the mycelium starts to dry out.


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Offlinekataphrakt
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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: deadmandave]
    #14333828 - 04/22/11 03:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks for the advice. So far I've seen a ton of mycelium growth; it's gotten really white in there. The misting and fanning has continued; about 4 times a day. I haven't spotted any contams or odd colors yet, so I'm very pleased. Also, here are the jars I let sit. They appear to be nearing their completion, so I'm very excited.



--------------------
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:mushroom2:


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Offlinedeadmandave
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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: kataphrakt]
    #14336555 - 04/23/11 12:57 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Those jars are lookin good :super:

What kind of substrate is in your monotub? actually, what kind of FC is that?  :pipesmoke:


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Offlinekataphrakt
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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: deadmandave]
    #14336668 - 04/23/11 01:21 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The substrate consists of spent coffee grounds (pasteurized), verm, and an underlying layer of soaked perlite. The FC itself is just a rubbermaid tub with 4 holes in each side; poly is filtering the holes from the outside with tape keeping them in place. Not the best thing I could have done, but I made it with stuff I had here at the house in about 10 minutes.


--------------------
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:mushroom2:


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Offlinedeadmandave
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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: kataphrakt]
    #14336742 - 04/23/11 01:41 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

hmmmmmm pasteurized coffee and verm? IMHO that has a snowballs chance in hell of fully colonizing with mushroom mycelium :awesome:. I say that because coffee is very nitrogen rich and a good starting point for any small life form i.e. it is very prone to contaminate.

I would suggest looking up some different substrate options such as coco coir or aged hpoo. coir is cheap, you can get it from the petstore and its not nearly as prone to contams when compared to coffee. 

Anyways, how did you pasteurize the coffee? did you pasteurize the verm as well? lets see what happens :pipesmoke:


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Offlinerustycobwebs
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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: deadmandave]
    #14336765 - 04/23/11 01:47 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

i dunno if u should be misting and fanning, that might be some confused mycelium, and damp coffee....

hold off till its all white or ull end up with green.


--------------------
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Offlinekataphrakt
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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: rustycobwebs]
    #14338461 - 04/23/11 01:21 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I didn't pasteurize the verm. I mixed the grounds and verm in a bowl, then dumped it into the tub. I will stop misting, but should I fan? Also, is there any extra measure I could take to fight contams?


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:mushroom2:


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Offlinedeadmandave
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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: kataphrakt]
    #14343990 - 04/24/11 03:29 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Nope, just let it sit while colonizing. the best way to fight contams is to follow good clean/sterile procedures :smile: Let the mycelium fight the contams :super:


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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: deadmandave]
    #14344230 - 04/24/11 04:28 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I had the same prob a while back because the only verm you can find around here is the fine grade. I solved the problem by using less water than the PF recipe calls for. The lack of water content will be fixed when you inject the MS solution or LC. Better to be slightly dry than too wet. I'd keep a nose close on those jars until they're at least 90%. If you smell dat funk, toss those bitches like a hot potato.

I ended up buying 10 gallons of Medium grade verm off eBay for ~$28, then came across some medium-coarse and mixed them both together. No problems at all anymore.

Water-logged jars piss me off!!!
:firecum:


--------------------
Why is pot against the law? It wouldn't be because anyone can grow it, and therefore you can't make a profit off it, would it? - Bill Hicks



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DIY Magnetic Stir Bars Tek

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Offlinekataphrakt
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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: Phoenix Crash]
    #14347403 - 04/25/11 03:23 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks for the insight. No foul odors have appeared yet, but I'm regularly eyeing them. Here's an update on my tub. Two words: cobweb mold. Just checked it and the gray wisps are everywhere. So disappointed with myself :frown:


--------------------
No glove, no love.
:mushroom2:


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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: kataphrakt]
    #14348719 - 04/25/11 11:46 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Dont get too upset. Its not a total failure as long as you learned something during the process. Next time will be better :biggrin:


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Offlinekataphrakt
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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: deadmandave]
    #14350492 - 04/25/11 05:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I learned a lot about how easy contaminants can take over uncolonized substrate. I'll be letting my jars sit for a while before birthing.

So, I dumped the substrate/myc in my back yard under some brush, washed the tub with hot water inside and out, and let it sit out back to air dry. I'm going to wipe it down with some isopropyl before I use it to birth my cakes. Should that be enough sterilization to get all the cobweb mold out?


--------------------
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:mushroom2:


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: kataphrakt]
    #14351028 - 04/25/11 07:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Remember, there's always a reason a jar 'stalls'.  Toss them as soon as you notice to avoid wasting your time.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #14351354 - 04/25/11 08:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Remember, there's always a reason a jar 'stalls'.  Toss them as soon as you notice to avoid wasting your time.
RR




Solid advice, but young people don't care about wasting their time.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:


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Offlinekataphrakt
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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: anonjon]
    #14351768 - 04/25/11 09:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks RR. I had originally attributed their stalling to the temp (I had kept them around 70-74F). I just wish my other cakes would finish colonizing so I can stop worrying so much about contams. I swear I followed the tek to a T and took all the sterile precautions when knocking up the jars.  :aweman:

EDIT: Also, I have a question regarding gypsum. I've read that it 'helps' the mycelium in developing fruiting bodies, and I would like to know how I should incorporate it. Should I add some to the verm I roll my cakes in after dunking?


--------------------
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:mushroom2:


Edited by kataphrakt (04/25/11 09:32 PM)


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Offlinedeadmandave
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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: kataphrakt]
    #14352505 - 04/25/11 10:54 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Add gypsum to the pf tek recipe, at about 1 tbsp per 5 jars. so the recipe would be 2 cups verm 1 cup brf and 1 tbsp gypsum, mix then add 1 cup water and mix it all really well.


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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: deadmandave]
    #14352538 - 04/25/11 11:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

did you say that you did or didnt pasteurize the coffee grounds?


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OfflineOneU

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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: floatindownsligo]
    #14353041 - 04/26/11 12:51 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I inoculated 4 jars about 20 days ago. I had one finish yesterday, three are over 75%. One was at 60% for more than a couple of days not moving so I looked at the bottom and noticed some water, decided to flip it. Flipped it on two jars so the air holes were still exposed and it has started up again, after 3 days it is now at 80%+.

Flip when you need to. Also, what helps them grow a lot faster appears to be love man. Some people don't believe in that stuff and say it appears to be a placebo but they grow much better and stronger.

Nice job for getting this far and blessings on your grow brother.

:thumbup:


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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: OneU]
    #14353127 - 04/26/11 01:14 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

your jars shouldnt be taking that long to colinise. As RR stated when jars stall, its not a good sign and usually the reason is a contaminant.

make sure you are falling the pf tek


mushroomvideos.com shows it from start to finish.


Never spawn unfinished jars to bulk, the uncolinised food will just be a breeding ground to contams (if it isnt already contaminated).

Temps are not your problem. i had jars colinise just fine even in the colder months when my room would get below 70 at night


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
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Offlinekataphrakt
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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: veda_sticks]
    #14355777 - 04/26/11 03:18 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Another thing I had attributed the stalling to was the extra fine verm I was using (in the pf tek vids they were using coarse, I think). But, I'll pray that no contams are in there; as they don't show any contam signs.

And yes, I pasteurized the coffee grounds.


--------------------
No glove, no love.
:mushroom2:


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Invisiblefloatindownsligo
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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: kataphrakt]
    #14358309 - 04/26/11 10:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

-And yes, I pasteurized the coffee grounds-

just checking, sorry about that, now that i read back i see i misunderstood. and yes, its true finer vermiculite will have a greater chance of contaminants but not by much. there are a lot of people on here that use fine verm because of better moisture retention. good luck on keeping the future ones contam-free!


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the meaning of life is to live it


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Offlinekataphrakt
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Re: Birthing stalled jars to bulk substrate [Re: floatindownsligo]
    #14361280 - 04/27/11 02:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, they do hold a lot of moisture; since about day 3 I've seen condensation on the inside of the jars


--------------------
No glove, no love.
:mushroom2:


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