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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: jammin]
    #14294410 - 04/15/11 07:30 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

jammin said:
dubstep has definately changed. Most dubstep is now "girly" in a sense. Dubstep used to be more hard with good drops with strong bass. none of the high pitched shit like it is now.

Bassnectar sticks to the goods stuff...




This is either deep sarcasm, or you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Im going for the former.


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #14294521 - 04/15/11 08:30 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomDoom said:
I think so many n00bs are quick to call bassnectar dubstep not noticing the drastic tempo variances in the tracks in his set. 160 bpm is more drum n bass than dubstep. And the half time surely isnt dubstep.  Actually out of what he played at nocturnal last year only 2 of the entire set were dubstep tracks. Bassnectar's production as of late is not my cup of tea, but that dude can build a set like no one else is doing right now and execute it live and fresh each time.



If you ask me its the style rather than the tempo that more defines a genre (though stylistically as well not all his songs are dub..which is good.. variety :thumbup:), half time could still be 140 - just played with a half time feel... and 160 oh my gawwd so drastic :lol:


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Edited by twighead (04/15/11 08:40 AM)

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Offlineriglow
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: twighead]
    #14294613 - 04/15/11 08:57 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

twighead said:If you ask me its the style rather than the tempo that more defines a genre


Unfortunately, that's not true and not a matter of opinion.
Quote:

(though stylistically as well not all his songs are dub..which is good.. variety :thumbup:),


He also does not have any tracks that are dub </genre_snob_mode>
Quote:

half time could still be 140 - just played with a half time feel... and 160 oh my gawwd so drastic :lol:


160 is the start of drum and bass tempo. Dubstep is not half-time that feels like 140, it's 140 and half-time so the percussion pattern feels even slower.


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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: twighead]
    #14294650 - 04/15/11 09:06 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

twighead said:
Quote:

ShroomDoom said:
I think so many n00bs are quick to call bassnectar dubstep not noticing the drastic tempo variances in the tracks in his set. 160 bpm is more drum n bass than dubstep. And the half time surely isnt dubstep.  Actually out of what he played at nocturnal last year only 2 of the entire set were dubstep tracks. Bassnectar's production as of late is not my cup of tea, but that dude can build a set like no one else is doing right now and execute it live and fresh each time.



If you ask me its the style rather than the tempo that more defines a genre (though stylistically as well not all his songs are dub..which is good.. variety :thumbup:), half time could still be 140 - just played with a half time feel... and 160 oh my gawwd so drastic :lol:



the point is at least there is a variance. of course 140 to 160 is not a difficult transition in an ableton set (try that on vinyl though :wink: ) and there are other tempos and styles of music that he plays. You are downplaying the significance of it.Maybe you havent been out to many shows, because i have seen countless dubstep headliners play straight 140-145 the entire set.

style is relative. there can be a various styles within the same genre. tempo and syncopation are a framework that help to structurally define the music. make a track at 190 and call it dubstep and see how many people agree with you. Not happening.

Quote:

half time could still be 140 - just played with a half time feel




when i cut 160 in half its not 140. its 80. you missed the point entirely of what I was saying because you suck at math.



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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #14294682 - 04/15/11 09:14 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

He also does not have any tracks that are dub </genre_snob_mode>
Quote:




How many of these kangol hat wearing little shits have that word on their mouth and never once heard king tubby's bionic horn? kids these days.


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: riglow]
    #14294719 - 04/15/11 09:27 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomDoom said:
Quote:

twighead said:
Quote:

ShroomDoom said:
I think so many n00bs are quick to call bassnectar dubstep not noticing the drastic tempo variances in the tracks in his set. 160 bpm is more drum n bass than dubstep. And the half time surely isnt dubstep.  Actually out of what he played at nocturnal last year only 2 of the entire set were dubstep tracks. Bassnectar's production as of late is not my cup of tea, but that dude can build a set like no one else is doing right now and execute it live and fresh each time.



If you ask me its the style rather than the tempo that more defines a genre (though stylistically as well not all his songs are dub..which is good.. variety :thumbup:), half time could still be 140 - just played with a half time feel... and 160 oh my gawwd so drastic :lol:



the point is at least there is a variance. of course 140 to 160 is not a difficult transition in an ableton set (try that on vinyl though :wink: ) and there are other tempos and styles of music that he plays. You are downplaying the significance of it.Maybe you havent been out to many shows, because i have seen countless dubstep headliners play straight 140-145 the entire set.

style is relative. there can be a various styles within the same genre. tempo and syncopation are a framework that help to structurally define the music. make a track at 190 and call it dubstep and see how many people agree with you. Not happening.

Quote:

half time could still be 140 - just played with a half time feel




when i cut 160 in half its not 140. its 80. you missed the point entirely of what I was saying because you suck at math.





Yeah I know everyone plays 140~ the whole damn set, but that doesn't mean you can't have a transition that brings you into another tempo temporarily - but effectively doing this and not messing up peoples dancing 'groove' is rough and beyond the compositional capabilities of most dubstep artists.

Maybe you should reread my last sentence, you know cause your reading comprehension sucks. I meant that the tempo can be set at 140 and the drums can be sequenced in a way that gives it a half time feel, I doubt the dude went in and actually set the tempo to 70 (unless it spans the whole song), more likely he composed to give it a feel of half time - thus still 140.


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: riglow]
    #14294732 - 04/15/11 09:33 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomDoom said:
Quote:

He also does not have any tracks that are dub </genre_snob_mode>
Quote:




How many of these kangol hat wearing little shits have that word on their mouth and never once heard king tubby's bionic horn? kids these days.



and shit- DUBSTEP.

I know what dub itself is, I'm just saving time - I assumed you capable of extrapolating meaning from context :rolleyes:


Quote:

riglow said:
Quote:

twighead said:If you ask me its the style rather than the tempo that more defines a genre


Unfortunately, that's not true and not a matter of opinion.
Quote:

(though stylistically as well not all his songs are dub..which is good.. variety :thumbup:),


He also does not have any tracks that are dub </genre_snob_mode>
Quote:

half time could still be 140 - just played with a half time feel... and 160 oh my gawwd so drastic :lol:


160 is the start of drum and bass tempo. Dubstep is not half-time that feels like 140, it's 140 and half-time so the percussion pattern feels even slower.





Speak for yourself, unfortunately there was never an official convention of what defines dubstep so my opinion is as valid as your 'fact' - its more dependent on style than tempo to me. That said they're all almost 140 and since most of it is made for dancing so there isn't much variation from that - perhaps I am too used to the rest of the music out there that can transition tempos from 70 up to 240 all in one song and still stay in the same genre...


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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: twighead]
    #14294787 - 04/15/11 09:51 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

but effectively doing this and not messing up peoples dancing 'groove' is rough and beyond the compositional capabilities of most dubstep artists




It's not a problem of composition, its an issue of programming and mixing skill on the Dj's part. In ableton this can be done easily with the proper warping of tracks, skillfully placing the markers so that you can manually change the global tempo mixing into the next track up 20 maybe 30 bpm if you want and still not mess up the overall groove or trainwreck the mix. It's not rough when executed properly, on the contrary it's refreshing to be "warped" into another groove like that on the dancefloor. A change of pace that is easy on the ears. 
Quote:

perhaps I am too used to the rest of the music out there that can transition tempos from 70 up to 240 all in one song and still stay in the same genre... /quote]

jazz, classical, death metal, and IDM do this but Im hard pressed to find funk, soul, pop, hip hop, or mainstream music that changes BPMs that much in the same song.

got some examples?


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #14294808 - 04/15/11 09:57 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Between tracks is one thing, within a single song though its a compositional thing - you need some sort of transition (which would probably just consist of a gradual tempo increase under a building beat..) to bind the 140 to the 160.

I probably couldn't give you many examples of funk, soul, pop, or hiphop/mainstream music that does that because I mostly listen to jazz, classical, death metal, and IDM :tongue:

but here's what I'd consider a dubstep song that seems to be about 160 BPM~... I would defnitely call it dubstep far before I would DnB..



some people in the comments claim 145~ but tapping it out in ableton sets me 156-160~


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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: twighead]
    #14294951 - 04/15/11 10:39 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

twighead said:Speak for yourself, unfortunately there was never an official convention of what defines dubstep


Yeah? Bass at 140 with half-time percussion rhythms. It's been defined as that from the start and has been diluted to mean "bass music." Ask any head and they'll tell you the definition, not what it has come to mean in connotation.
Quote:

so my opinion is as valid as your 'fact' - its more dependent on style than tempo to me.


Connotation != Denotation
Quote:

That said they're all almost 140 and since most of it is made for dancing so there isn't much variation from that


Right, that's an inherent part of electronic dance music. All of it is classified by BPM and drum patterns.
Quote:

perhaps I am too used to the rest of the music out there that can transition tempos from 70 up to 240 all in one song and still stay in the same genre...


Making you an ill authority on electronic dance music.

Edited by riglow (04/15/11 10:50 AM)

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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: twighead]
    #14294973 - 04/15/11 10:45 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

twighead said:but here's what I'd consider a dubstep song that seems to be about 160 BPM~... I would defnitely call it dubstep far before I would DnB..

[flash=425,344]http://www.youtube.com/v/L3gmMGUwxXc&fs=1&autoplay=1[/flah]

some people in the comments claim 145~ but tapping it out in ableton sets me 156-160~




In the comments: "iv got this on a mix album, revalomatic...its a lot slower on it and sounds more right, this defo sped up."

Try this one:



DJs also tend to speed up tracks to 145 for the hyped rave vibe.

A song at 160 with a half-time percussion pattern is not uncommon for drum and bass. There is an entire label dedicated to deep rollers around 170 bpm and they are all drum and bass tracks produced by mostly dubstep producers.

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Offlinetwighead
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: riglow]
    #14295449 - 04/15/11 12:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:strokebeard: Well I'll give you this one - I felt compelled to devils advocate because I hate to think of genres as being so rigidly defined :smilingpuppy:

But I guess at least there is a good reason for it.


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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: twighead]
    #14296333 - 04/15/11 03:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

twighead said:
:strokebeard: Well I'll give you this one - I felt compelled to devils advocate




sure man

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Offlinetwighead
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: riglow]
    #14296499 - 04/15/11 04:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:stonedjerk::stonedjerk::stonedjerk:


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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: twighead]
    #14296642 - 04/15/11 05:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

twighead said:
:strokebeard: Well I'll give you this one - I felt compelled to devils advocate because I hate to think of genres as being so rigidly defined


But I guesat least there is a good reason for it.




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Offlinetwighead
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #14296829 - 04/15/11 05:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What about him?


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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: twighead]
    #14297435 - 04/15/11 07:07 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Skrillex looks like a prepubescent scenester.

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Offlinetwighead
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: riglow]
    #14297537 - 04/15/11 07:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Probably because he was in from first to last :smilingpuppy:

Now he's teaming up with korn  :scumbagsteve:


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