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OfflineKickleM
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Shroomerette]
    #14287997 - 04/14/11 01:17 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

yeah but if no one is around to say that is a point of some sort...?


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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OfflineShroomerette
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Kickle]
    #14288036 - 04/14/11 01:24 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I would say that that doesn't affect the substantiality of the argument but it does make it pretty pointless :lol:


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: [Re: Shroomerette]
    #14288133 - 04/14/11 01:47 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I definitely have to concede that insubstantial was not the right choice of word :blush:

edit: thought garbage...

Edited by Kickle (04/14/11 01:56 AM)

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OfflineDutchbrewed
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Kickle]
    #14288170 - 04/14/11 01:57 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

meh..

if we're going to generalize an atheist as everything else. Then I propose there is simply English then everything else.. OR America, then everywhere else.

There is a clear distinction between someone who claims/believes/testifies there is no god and a newborn who's life simply consists of bodily processes. Not seeing a distinction between the two is pretty dumb.

Is the true motive of this entire argument to prove the validity of atheism?? of Christianity?? I think so..

but for the sake of drawing party lines I really can't see how it is logical to claim all the babies and every other species of life. Trying to pin the beliefs of these things is like proving the existence of god. Just as impossible.

Why is atheism so much more supported?? oh wait it isn't.. and that's not saying anything else is. Just stop having such a goddamn ego about it and eat more fungus.

that is, after all, something we can agree on.. maybe

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Offlinepouihi
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Dutchbrewed]
    #14288544 - 04/14/11 06:02 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Almost all (or all) religions claim the existence of one or more, gods, entities, deities, or some higher force, so in what way can the denial of this existing be an alternative god supporting system?

Atheists are not trying to sell you anything, they just request an evidence for that belief otherwise it has no basis.


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Offlinepouihi
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: pouihi] * 1
    #14288627 - 04/14/11 06:42 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)



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"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."

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OfflineUnison
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: g00ru]
    #14288759 - 04/14/11 07:53 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Atheism is, by definition, "everything else". It is this way, literally, because of the "a" prefix.  The "a" prefix literally means "not", or "without". An atheism is one who is not, or is without, theism.

Despite pop-culture use, atheism is, again, by definition, "everything else" other than theism. Everything that does not qualify as theism, qualifies as atheism. A baby does in fact classify as an atheist, because he or she is without theism, despite his or her lack of knowledge of it.

What you are thinking of, is an "antitheist". This is someone who holds an actual "ism" which is the polar opposite of the theist.

Quote:

guruu said:
Quote:

Unison said:
That has nothing to do with anything.




you disappoint me, inverted pentagram dude



Say something useful.

Edited by Unison (04/14/11 07:56 AM)

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Offlineg00ru
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Unison]
    #14288941 - 04/14/11 09:02 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

yeah yeah, i know jesus i've read so much about atheism and heard so many times why by definition a baby or whatever is an atheist.  there is a more transcendental perspective to take on this argument, where you look at what atheism really is, as a mental construct.  Anybody that calls them self an atheist fits this bill, anybody that doesn't does not, they don't have atheist consciousness, sorry if you can't escape the maze of definitions


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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: g00ru]
    #14288956 - 04/14/11 09:08 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

But by saying "they're not atheists," you are just as much a part of the web of definitions. Opposites are mental constructs too. The truly "transcendental" perspective on this debate would be to not enter it.


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OfflineUnison
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: NetDiver]
    #14289015 - 04/14/11 09:26 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Ah. You're not talking about the literal atheist, but what atheism is considered depending on who says it. If that is the case, then this whole topic is entirely useless. The answer is sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Nothing is anything specific, and thoughts only describe reality as well as you need them to.

Is the mental construct you are referring to a religion? That all depends on who says the word, if you refuse to be literal about it.

Edited by Unison (04/14/11 09:28 AM)

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OfflineUnison
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Unison]
    #14289070 - 04/14/11 09:41 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Here's the most general answer I can give you:
Some atheists are dogmatic about their antitheism.

What I'm saying, guruu (not just guruu, sorry to pick on you), is it all depends on what game you want to play. We can be completely literal, or we can play on what ever point of the continuum between "thoughts describe reality" and "reality transcends thought" you find convenient. You want to play the role of the transcendental person, while still keeping it literal enough to have an argument and be correct about it.

You picked a point in that continuum that is convenient for you. At least have the integrity to see that is what you have done.

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Offlineg00ru
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Unison]
    #14290125 - 04/14/11 01:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

okay true and i've admitted that several times throughout this thread.  I'm just holding my position because i think it's highly misleading to spread the definition of atheism to everyone not believing in God because it gives atheism this overarching validity that it doesn't really deserve, and implies that all the atheists championing this position don't hold a belief, which they clearly do.


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OfflineSimms
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: g00ru]
    #14290294 - 04/14/11 02:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I guess atheism is a religion when the participants act as religious group: make meetings, do missionaries, try to convince everybody.

What about those who just don't think about religion at all? Are they still atheists, although they have not labeled themselves as atheists, they are just give-no-shit-ists?


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Offlinesynapz
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Poid]
    #14291985 - 04/14/11 07:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I find it far easier to not get worried about religion as a label. I don't use it. lol I have essentially disposed of religion in my mind. So I see it all in terms of belief systems. Different belief systems.

Religion, then, doesn't factor in at all.

And besides, using such labels will keep you from the heart of the issue: it's the individual beliefs that are important and have reality. Nothing else actually, in this context.

Let us focus on each belief one at a time and not get totally ahead of ourselves. eh?

We don't need to label because we are exploring. We don't know. :smile:


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Oh Snapz

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OfflineUnison
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: synapz]
    #14292573 - 04/14/11 08:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I get what you're saying, guruu. You're talking about someone who proudly states "I am an Atheist" with a capital A. You're not talking about atheist, but the mental construct they have developed around the word. It's hard to say it's a religion, as synapz said, it comes down to belief system. That's the core of religion. So yes, that capital Atheism does qualify.

Understand why I get defensive about this. I do not care about the semantics of a word, but to say (A)theism is not "everything else" is to butcher the English language.

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OfflineDutchbrewed
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Unison]
    #14293847 - 04/15/11 01:39 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


Understand why I get defensive about this. I do not care about the semantics of a word, but to say (A)theism is not "everything else" is to butcher the English language.




not butchering english... it's just irony.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Unison]
    #14293872 - 04/15/11 01:48 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

So yes, that capital Atheism does qualify.





Um, no it doesn't. There are no meetings, no robes, no leader, incense, hymns, rituals, secret handshakes, study meetings, organ music, fake charities, overseas missions nor the fondling of under-aged boys.


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OfflineDutchbrewed
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14293915 - 04/15/11 01:57 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

ahhhh.. so that's a religion.. thanks for bastar- I mean clarifying:facepalm:

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: Dutchbrewed]
    #14293941 - 04/15/11 02:06 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

No matter how you phrase it, an individual belief or non belief does not constitute a religion.


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OfflineUnison
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Re: "Atheism is a religion." [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14294466 - 04/15/11 08:02 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
No matter how you phrase it, an individual belief or non belief does not constitute a religion.



It qualifies as a belief system, depending on the person's approach. Not as a religion.

It's not actually the atheism that qualifies a belief system (atheism is everything but a particular belief), but there can be belief systems that are centered around atheism.

That's all this discussion is about. It has been pretty well summed up.

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