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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlinemeatcakeman
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Moral Dilemma
    #14290418 - 04/14/11 02:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

This is a COMPLETELY HYPOTHETICAL situation. Thus, there is no need to nitpick at the details. Rather, one should logically assume the parameters and judge them accordingly and unbiasedly.

A trolley is going full speed and you notice it will hit and kill 5 people who are on the tracks. You also notice that you have the ability to pull a lever that will change the trolley's course onto another set of tracks destined for 1 man. What do you do? Do you kill one man to save 5 lives?


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大开眼界

:awegroove:
:fbsnugs::fbsnugs::fbsnugs:
Hasta siempre, comandante.
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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Moral Dilemma [Re: meatcakeman]
    #14290925 - 04/14/11 03:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

meatcakeman said:
This is a COMPLETELY HYPOTHETICAL situation. Thus, there is no need to nitpick at the details. Rather, one should logically assume the parameters and judge them accordingly and unbiasedly.

A trolley is going full speed and you notice it will hit and kill 5 people who are on the tracks. You also notice that you have the ability to pull a lever that will change the trolley's course onto another set of tracks destined for 1 man. What do you do? Do you kill one man to save 5 lives?




My job as an assassin was to kill that man.  I had to kill the trolley engineer first to gain control of the trolley's course.  The 5 people on the other track will get it after the job is done.  Can't risk any witnesses.

You didn't see anything did you?


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Offlinemeatcakeman
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Re: Moral Dilemma [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #14291955 - 04/14/11 06:57 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

i should have known an honest philosophical debate about morality was impossible here. i guess i was blinded by my wishful thinking.


--------------------
大开眼界

:awegroove:
:fbsnugs::fbsnugs::fbsnugs:
Hasta siempre, comandante.
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Offlinesynapz
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Re: Moral Dilemma [Re: meatcakeman]
    #14292153 - 04/14/11 07:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

A trolley is going full speed and you notice it will hit and kill 5 people who are on the tracks. You also notice that you have the ability to pull a lever that will change the trolley's course onto another set of tracks destined for 1 man. What do you do? Do you kill one man to save 5 lives?




You pick one of the two choices mate. Not a hard question.


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Oh Snapz

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OfflineShroomerette
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Re: Moral Dilemma [Re: synapz]
    #14292260 - 04/14/11 08:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Of course pick one death over 5.  Did you hear that scenario on a PBS philosophy show or something? I heard a very similar thought experiment on tv.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Moral Dilemma [Re: Shroomerette]
    #14292407 - 04/14/11 08:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Oh, and it is such an original thought experiment, one can only find it secluded in some documentary or a book or something...


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
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And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
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Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

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OfflineShroomerette
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Re: Moral Dilemma [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #14292474 - 04/14/11 08:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Sarcasm is unbecoming


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Moral Dilemma [Re: Shroomerette]
    #14292477 - 04/14/11 08:37 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Who gives a crap?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
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Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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OfflineShroomerette
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Re: Moral Dilemma [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #14292495 - 04/14/11 08:39 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

They should call you Dr. Grumpy Thighs instead :tongue:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Moral Dilemma [Re: Shroomerette]
    #14292526 - 04/14/11 08:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

But they aren't cause I don't hang out with butt-rashes. :wink:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Offlinemeatcakeman
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Re: Moral Dilemma [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #14292567 - 04/14/11 08:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomerette said:
Of course pick one death over 5.  Did you hear that scenario on a PBS philosophy show or something? I heard a very similar thought experiment on tv.




no i actually was proposed the hypothetical situation by a philosophy professor here. he actually wrote a whole book about it.

btw, why do you choose the 5 over the 1? to quantify human life is to assume we are all equally valuable. what if the man was a researcher for cancer? or what if the 5 were all runaway fugitives?

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Oh, and it is such an original thought experiment, one can only find it secluded in some documentary or a book or something...




it wasn't meant to be original. it was meant to provoke existential thought, something it seems you are quite incapable of.


--------------------
大开眼界

:awegroove:
:fbsnugs::fbsnugs::fbsnugs:
Hasta siempre, comandante.
:mattz:

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Offlinemeatcakeman
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Re: Moral Dilemma [Re: synapz]
    #14292650 - 04/14/11 09:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

synapz said:
Quote:

A trolley is going full speed and you notice it will hit and kill 5 people who are on the tracks. You also notice that you have the ability to pull a lever that will change the trolley's course onto another set of tracks destined for 1 man. What do you do? Do you kill one man to save 5 lives?




You pick one of the two choices mate. Not a hard question.




btw, you also have the option of doing nothing.


--------------------
大开眼界

:awegroove:
:fbsnugs::fbsnugs::fbsnugs:
Hasta siempre, comandante.
:mattz:

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OfflineUnison
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Re: Moral Dilemma [Re: meatcakeman]
    #14292677 - 04/14/11 09:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yes.

And I would expect anyone else to do the same, were I that 1 man.

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OfflineShroomerette
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Re: Moral Dilemma [Re: meatcakeman]
    #14292709 - 04/14/11 09:13 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

meatcakeman said:
Quote:

Shroomerette said:
Of course pick one death over 5.  Did you hear that scenario on a PBS philosophy show or something? I heard a very similar thought experiment on tv.




no i actually was proposed the hypothetical situation by a philosophy professor here. he actually wrote a whole book about it.

btw, why do you choose the 5 over the 1? to quantify human life is to assume we are all equally valuable. what if the man was a researcher for cancer? or what if the 5 were all runaway fugitives?

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Oh, and it is such an original thought experiment, one can only find it secluded in some documentary or a book or something...




it wasn't meant to be original. it was meant to provoke existential thought, something it seems you are quite incapable of.




I assumed they were all equal because you did not differentiate between them.  If it was a choice between letting 5 rapists die or 1 good person I would choose to let the rapists die :lol:


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Offlinemeatcakeman
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Re: Moral Dilemma [Re: Unison]
    #14292761 - 04/14/11 09:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

imo, that is the cleanest way to go about this situation without getting any blood on your hands. in a sense, that 1 man is a mere bystander. if you were to pull the lever, you'd be bringing him into a situation in which he was intrinsically not a part of. some would disagree because to them 5 lives is worth more than 1.


--------------------
大开眼界

:awegroove:
:fbsnugs::fbsnugs::fbsnugs:
Hasta siempre, comandante.
:mattz:

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OfflineBobFromReboot
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Re: Moral Dilemma [Re: Shroomerette]
    #14292766 - 04/14/11 09:22 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What if that one man were a baby? A white baby.

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Offlinemeatcakeman
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Re: Moral Dilemma [Re: Shroomerette]
    #14292772 - 04/14/11 09:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomerette said:
Quote:

meatcakeman said:
Quote:

Shroomerette said:
Of course pick one death over 5.  Did you hear that scenario on a PBS philosophy show or something? I heard a very similar thought experiment on tv.




no i actually was proposed the hypothetical situation by a philosophy professor here. he actually wrote a whole book about it.

btw, why do you choose the 5 over the 1? to quantify human life is to assume we are all equally valuable. what if the man was a researcher for cancer? or what if the 5 were all runaway fugitives?

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Oh, and it is such an original thought experiment, one can only find it secluded in some documentary or a book or something...




it wasn't meant to be original. it was meant to provoke existential thought, something it seems you are quite incapable of.




I assumed they were all equal because you did not differentiate between them.  If it was a choice between letting 5 rapists die or 1 good person I would choose to let the rapists die :lol:




exactly. you don't know if they are equal, but you have to choose. so, what do you do? i'd just stand there and do nothing. i couldn't empower myself to discern the value of a human being in a situation of life or death. i am not a god.


--------------------
大开眼界

:awegroove:
:fbsnugs::fbsnugs::fbsnugs:
Hasta siempre, comandante.
:mattz:

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OfflineShroomerette
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Re: Moral Dilemma [Re: BobFromReboot]
    #14292813 - 04/14/11 09:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Plus if you pulled the lever the guys family would probably sue you, or you might get charged with murder or something.


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Offlinemeatcakeman
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Re: Moral Dilemma [Re: Shroomerette]
    #14292826 - 04/14/11 09:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

hahaha indeed. a lot of kids, freshmen i'm assuming :facepalm:, were disagreeing with me because they believed that doing nothing is morally wrong, like watching someone drown. honestly, there is no right or wrong though, only personal preference.


--------------------
大开眼界

:awegroove:
:fbsnugs::fbsnugs::fbsnugs:
Hasta siempre, comandante.
:mattz:

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OfflineShroomerette
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Re: Moral Dilemma [Re: meatcakeman]
    #14292894 - 04/14/11 09:43 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

In the version of this question I saw on tv the situation was almost the same, except the lever opened a trapdoor under a really fat man standing on the bridge so he would fall in front of the trolley and stop it.

And then he asked, what if there was no lever but you had to push the fat man off the bridge with your own hands to stop the trolley?  A lot of people on the show changed their answers from killing the fat man to letting the 5 people die instead when he asked that.  It was kinda weird.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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