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Talking Head
cheeseburger walrus


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Nationalsozialismus
#14286927 - 04/13/11 09:45 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Why is it that naziism is often portrayed as a right-wing ideology in films?
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy


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"national socialism" isnt socialism any more than "neoliberalism" is liberal...
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Talking Head
cheeseburger walrus


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Really?
this is interesting: link
"What Mises identified was that private ownership of the means of production existed in name only under the Nazis and that the actual substance of ownership of the means of production resided in the German government. For it was the German government and not the nominal private owners that exercised all of the substantive powers of ownership: it, not the nominal private owners, decided what was to be produced, in what quantity, by what methods, and to whom it was to be distributed, as well as what prices would be charged and what wages would be paid, and what dividends or other income the nominal private owners would be permitted to receive. The position of the alleged private owners, Mises showed, was reduced essentially to that of government pensioners.
De facto government ownership of the means of production, as Mises termed it, was logically implied by such fundamental collectivist principles embraced by the Nazis as that the common good comes before the private good and the individual exists as a means to the ends of the State. If the individual is a means to the ends of the State, so too, of course, is his property. Just as he is owned by the State, his property is also owned by the State.
But what specifically established de facto socialism in Nazi Germany was the introduction of price and wage controls in 1936. These were imposed in response to the inflation of the money supply carried out by the regime from the time of its coming to power in early 1933. The Nazi regime inflated the money supply as the means of financing the vast increase in government spending required by its programs of public works, subsidies, and rearmament. The price and wage controls were imposed in response to the rise in prices that began to result from the inflation."
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Talking Head
cheeseburger walrus


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btw, your avatar is really disturbing.
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Therian
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They most likely are compared not necessarily due to their political inclinations, but their collective hawkish stance. I think the defacto socialism/Nazism comparison is due to the fact anti obama pundits like to characterize him as a socialist, and by extension Nazi-esque. Actually the nazis were very much unlike the conservatives. They actually had the balls to exterminate the illegal Gypsy scum that were invading their territory, whereas the conservatives here have no problems catering to the illegal mexican vermin which so proudly flaunt their illegal status.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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> Why is it that naziism is often portrayed as a right-wing ideology in films?
The easy answer is that most film makers are bleeding left wing liberals.
The not so easy answer, which is more of an opinion, is that Nazism was very authoritarian, and for whatever reason, right-wing ideology (in the US) is associated with authoritarian rule. The irony is that liberal policies lead to authoritarian rule (as somebody has to strong-arm people into giving up their money for society) while (US) conservative policies of smaller government actually reduce authoritarian rule. Unfortunately, the small fragment of the extreme far right religious idiots that try to legislate their moral values upon the rest of us give the liberals fodder to paint everybody conservative in the same light.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Ectius
Werecat Ninjabeast



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Re: Nationalsozialismus [Re: Seuss]
#14288673 - 04/14/11 07:11 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Naziism isn't a worldwide meme because of its political policies. The sensational persecution of other peoples and chronic xenophobia are what people normally associate with the regime, which is where it draws parallels to American Conservatism.
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy


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Re: Nationalsozialismus [Re: Seuss]
#14289965 - 04/14/11 01:02 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Seuss said: > Why is it that naziism is often portrayed as a right-wing ideology in films?
The easy answer is that most film makers are bleeding left wing liberals.
thats because only bleeding left-wing liberals are capable of thinking in terms other than the corporate propaganda that you keep bleating (which is lousy film material since theres already enough commercials on TV)...
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The not so easy answer, which is more of an opinion, is that Nazism was very authoritarian and for whatever reason, right-wing ideology (in the US) is associated with authoritarian rule.
thats the only sentance in that paragraph which is factually correct...i will discuss the "whatever reason" below...
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The irony is that liberal policies lead to authoritarian rule (as somebody has to strong-arm people into giving up their money for society)
conservative policies are much worse in that regard.. allowing and encouraging corporate autocrats to strong-arm many more ppl into giving up their money for corporate autocrats.. in the form of layoffs..cutbacks..and speedups...which is actually a form of taxation without representation...
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while (US) conservative policies of smaller government actually reduce authoritarian rule.
:sigh: more mindless bleating...to wit ..when conservatives talk about "small government".. they mean reducing the role of government to corporate mercenaries and taskmasters...
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



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Quote:
Talking Head said: Why is it that naziism is often portrayed as a right-wing ideology in films?

What are they elements of the way Naziism is portrayed in films which you interpret as being of right-wing ideology?
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy


Registered: 05/21/02
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Quote:
Talking Head said: Really?
this is interesting: link
the link conveniently ignores the loss of distinction between big govt and big business that occurred under the nazis and the soviets...the soviets' use of the word "socialism" gave the right fodder to project their own perverted agendas on liberals ..
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A "socialist government" [quotes mine] totally annihilates these freedoms [of the press and freedom of speech]. It turns the press and every public forum into a vehicle of hysterical propaganda in its own behalf, and it engages in the relentless persecution of everyone who dares to deviate by so much as an inch from its official party line.
corporate amerikkka and their shills in govt fit that billing to a tea...and IMAO..the US incarnation is a soviet implementation of a nazi ideology...
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy


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Re: Nationalsozialismus [Re: ChuangTzu]
#14290143 - 04/14/11 01:40 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
ChuangTzu said:
Quote:
Talking Head said: Why is it that naziism is often portrayed as a right-wing ideology in films?

What are they elements of the way Naziism is portrayed in films which you interpret as being of right-wing ideology?
the most generic definition of "right-wing ideology" is simply any ideology that aims to redistribute wealth upwards.. as was done in nazi germany and the USSR...the american right has also borrowed the nazi aphorism of asserting the moral and bioligical superiority of certain individuals over others.. pushing the former into their fullest potential by exercising the brutal use of force against the latter...
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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



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Quote:
Annapurna1 said: the most generic definition of "right-wing ideology" is simply any ideology that aims to redistribute wealth upwards..
That's not an answer to my question, I didn't ask you, and I don't agree with your response.
Thanks anyway.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


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Re: Nationalsozialismus [Re: ChuangTzu]
#14290953 - 04/14/11 03:57 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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ChuangTzu said:
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Annapurna1 said: the most generic definition of "right-wing ideology" is simply any ideology that aims to redistribute wealth upwards..
That's not an answer to my question, I didn't ask you, and I don't agree with your response.
Thanks anyway.
You've been here long enough that you should know Anna prefers her own definitions to the ones that most people use.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



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Therian
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Fascism is normally described as "extreme right",[32] although writers have found placing fascism on a conventional left-right political spectrum difficult.[33] There is a scholarly consensus that fascism was influenced by both left and right, conservative and anti-conservative, national and supranational, rational and anti-rational.[9] A number of historians have regarded fascism either as a revolutionary centrist doctrine, as a doctrine which mixes philosophies of the left and the right, or as both of those things.[10][11][12]
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the most generic definition of "right-wing ideology" is simply any ideology that aims to redistribute wealth upwards.. as was done in Nazi Germany and the USSR...
WTF are you talking about. Have you purchased a gallon of gas lately? The corresponding prices of food, clothing, transportation, everything that you purchase will also increase. This will only further the financial distress many average Americans are enduring. You can thank obama for that. The profits are going to the large oil companies and sent to our enemies overseas. Yeah, that money is being redistributed "downwards"
GE made 14 billion in profits last year, and paid no taxes here in the US. Of course the ceo of GE is now on Obamas job "task force" Yes that asshole is responsible for a great deal of job creation overseas, but not here. Huge tax breaks for the ULTRA rich, then speaking of how he will have to raise taxes? I don't see the Dem's doing any great works for the workers of this country. Slick willie signed NAFTA, do you know how many hundreds of thousands of common american workers have lost their jobs due to this?
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hostility towards equitable distribution of wealth & workers' self management.
Where in the hell do you and sugar tits get your information from.
First off concerning self management here's a quote for you. "We just can't trust the American people to make those types of choices.... Government has to make those choices for people" Hillary Clinton,1993 As for laborers and the common worker, let me contrast our sec of states comments about ag. laborers and farmers, she called them rednecks, and shit kickers or the "G*damn L. D., did you see that family right out of Deliverance? Get me the hell out of here!" -- Hillary Clinton speaking to L. D. Brown, her bodyguard, while at the Arkansas county fair in the early 1980's regarding a family in bib overalls and cotton dresses. Yep the Dem's are the salt of the earth, friend to the working class of America.
How did the Nazis feel about their working class? farmers? Read about the term blut and boden, or blood and soil. The Reichserbhofgesetz, the State Hereditary Farm Law of 1933, implemented this ideology, stating that its aim was to: "preserve the farming community as the blood-source of the German people" (Das Bauerntum als Blutquelle des deutschen Volkes erhalten). Selected lands were declared hereditary, to pass from father to eldest son, and could not be mortgaged or alienated, and only these farmers were entitled to call themselves Bauen or "farmer peasant", a term the Nazis attempted to refurbish from a neutral or even pejorative to a positive term.[5] This was also regarded as the best place to raise infantry, and as having a organic harmony between landowner and peasant, unlike the "race chaos" of the industrial cities.[6]
The doctrine not only called for a "back to the land" approach and re-adoption of rural values, it held that German land was bound, perhaps mystically, to German blood.[7] Peasants were the Nazi cultural heroes, who held charge of German history.
Our current leaders consider the laborer and the farmer inbred, hillbilly, worthless ignorant, shit kicker fucks. To the Fascists, they were heroes and patriots.
The Nazis initiated May Day, a day celebrated by organized labor, to be a paid holiday and held celebrations on 1 May 1933 to honor German workers.[11] The Nazis stressed that Germany must honor its workers.[12] The regime believed that the only way to avoid a repeat of the disaster of 1918 was to secure workers' support for the German government.[11] The regime also insisted that all Germans take part in the May Day celebrations in the hope that this would help break down class hostility between workers and burghers.[12] Songs in praise of labor and workers were played by state radio throughout May Day as well as an airshow in Berlin and fireworks.[12] Hitler spoke of workers as patriots who had built Germany's industrial strength and had honorably served in the war and claimed that they had been oppressed under economic liberalism
The nazis hated the class system, elitists, and the bourgeois. Bonfires were made of school children's differently colored caps as symbolic of the abolition of class differences.[14]A common Nazi mantra declared they must put "collective need ahead of individual greed" -- a widespread sentiment in this era.
Hitler declared that he knew nothing of bourgeois or proletarian, only Germans.[22] Volksgemeinschaft was portrayed as overcoming distinctions of party and social class.[23] The commonality this created across classes was among the great appeals of Nazism.[24]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winterhilfswerk
The nazis killed 8-10 million NON-Whites? Who did they kill that wasn't white? Did they travel to mexico? Rommel was in Africa, but not to kill blacks. If a country the size of Wisconsin can nearly take on the entire world and kill untold millions of their enemies, then they were correct they were superior. Jesus Christ we've been in Afghanistan for a decade and we can't even kill a few thousand haji cave monkeys. All this and their engineers were able to think out of the box when creating alternative uses for shower facilities. I guess the good ol' days are gone.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



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Re: Nationalsozialismus [Re: Therian]
#14295551 - 04/15/11 01:08 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/05/22 07:44 PM)
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



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Re: Nationalsozialismus [Re: Therian]
#14295573 - 04/15/11 01:14 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/05/22 07:44 PM)
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zappaisgod
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



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This thread isn't about the "far right & underlying Nazi ideology". It's about Nazi portrayal in films and what the OP perceives as being of a far right nature. I'd still like to know why he perceives that. What exactly is being shown in the film which, to him, is of a "far right nature".
This thread has nothing to do with the connections, real or imagined, between the actual Nazis and "far right" politics. It could be the case that the OP's perceptions of rightism are way out of line with reality. How do we know since he never responded.
This thread has been jacked by a few people (e.g. annapurna) who can't keep their hands off any opportunity to talk about their personal agendas. Reminds me of college.
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy


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Re: Nationalsozialismus [Re: ChuangTzu]
#14300693 - 04/16/11 12:38 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
This thread isn't about the "far right & underlying Nazi ideology". It's about Nazi portrayal in films and what the OP perceives as being of a far right nature
seizing another opportunity to jill the thread.. i dont think that the films actually portray naziism "as being of a far right nature" unless one chooses to define "a far right nature" as the cinematic portrayal of naziism...
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Me_Roy
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As it emerged within the context of Weimar Germany, Nazi-ism was a reactionary force from the right. They were extremely culturally and socially conservative. They may have adopted the rhetoric of workers' rights, but they consolidated power by way of cronyism and cultivated a loyalist elite. Their staunchest opponents were from the far left, with policies of increasing appeasement found as one moved towards the center of the political spectrum.
To use the parlance of the 21st-century U.S., they were indeed "big-government". However, their cultural and social conservatism and Blut und Boden rhetoric are closer to the the positions of the contemporary American right than they are to the contemporary American left.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Nationalsozialismus [Re: Me_Roy]
#14300977 - 04/16/11 01:26 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Cronyism and a loyalist elite are left wing features, not conservative or capitalist meritocracy.
They reason they hated the communists so much was that they were so similar.
They weren't so much conservative as they were nationalist. Hence that part of their name.
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Me_Roy
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Socially and culturally, the Nazis were ur-konservativ.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Nationalsozialismus [Re: Me_Roy]
#14301420 - 04/16/11 02:32 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Only if you pervert the meaning of the word conservative to mean what liberal assholes like to imagine it means.
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Me_Roy
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...and I'll say the same for your use of the term liberal. Thanks for the discussion.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Nationalsozialismus [Re: Me_Roy]
#14301600 - 04/16/11 03:04 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Do you think the Soviet Union was a liberal nation?
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despisedicon
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Better dead than red.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Give me liberty or give me death.
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EntheogenicPeace
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Re: Nationalsozialismus [Re: Me_Roy]
#14302032 - 04/16/11 04:36 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/05/22 07:46 PM)
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zappaisgod
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said: The only reason some people have a problem with Nazi Germany being right-wing is bc they are using a contradictory scale of left vs. right that has limited application in reality. The premise they use is left = statism, & right = individualism/no government involvement. It seems simple, but it breaks down when looking at the U.S. political scene.
Consider the following:
- such loyal devotion to the state the they are happy to send their first-born it is death upon its alter, believing children from the youngest age should be mandated to pledge their total allegiance every day to the almighty state, in a massive big government (or "socialist" if you will), inherently ultra-authoritarian institution, which happens to be the largest portion of the federal budget
- believing that the state should have arbitrary control over the body & mind of its subjects (instead of owning your own body being a natural right of all people), & coerce them (& then often incarcerate after an initial detainment), inflicting virtually-unaccountable violence (sometimes lethal) on its subjects if they don't comply to this from of imposed state ownership of one's body; this control would also extend to a woman's reproductive anatomy
As such, the Religious Right (i.e. social conservatives, the core constituency of the GOP) would be "radical leftists" in a # of far-reaching & fundamental ways. Conversely, someone like Mikhail Bakunin (19th century Russian anarchist who spend time in prison for his anti-Czarist activities) would have been a "right-wing extremist."
I realize that this scale would have some merit for people like the "anarcho-capitalist" Murray Rothbard (who actually wrote a lamenting eulogy containing much praise for Che Guevara, for his fight against the "common enemy of U.S. imperialism" that sought to dominate & subordinate the sovereignty of the 3rd world), but for every one of him, there are hundreds of dull-witted GOPers who love & empower the state when it comes to waging war against darker-skinned people abroad (or incarcerating them domestically via the racist "War on Drugs"), or such asinine things as eradicating hemp plants (let alone marijuana.)
You make several flagrantly stupid assumptions:
1. That service in the military is a death sentence 2. That anybody is mandated to pledge their allegiance 3. That national defense is "big government". No, it is all government. That is primarily why we have them going back to clan of the cave bear times. 4. That the only being at issue in abortion is the mother. 5. That drug prohibition has anything to do with race. See China. By the way, why don't you tell us all about how the leftist/liberal nations treat drug use? As far as waging war on "darkies" you might want to consider what flavor the Germans and Soviets were. Che Guevara was a murderous piece of shit who died cowering and Murray Rothbard is almost equally scummy.
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gluke bastid
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Quote:
Talking Head said: Why is it that naziism is often portrayed as a right-wing ideology in films?

Which films? From which countries? From which time periods?
If I had to characterize the tendency of portrayal of nazism in American films I would say that they tend to, for the most part, side step the politics of the third reich alltogether, with the exception of a disgust for its authoritarian structure. In fact if there were one "character" in film history who (outside of facist propoganda of the third reich era) is a given symbol of evil itself, it would probably be hitler. The film maker takes it for granted that the audience is going to know that Hitler is "bad," and where the film typically goes from there is an exploration of the people and nations around him. How many films can you think of that actually explore the (in)effectiveness of Hitler's politics? I myself am having trouble thinking of a movie that portrays nazism as either left wing or right wing, and would be interested to hear what films you or others have in mind.
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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EntheogenicPeace
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Therian
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Quote:
In fact if there were one "character" in film history who (outside of fascist propaganda of the third Reich era) is a given symbol of evil itself, it would probably be hitler. The film maker takes it for granted that the audience is going to know that Hitler is "bad," and where the film typically goes from there is an exploration of the people and nations around him. How many films can you think of that actually explore the (in)effectiveness of Hitler's politics?
Yes I believe the only time you see any characterizations of hitler, the Reich, or the german people in general during this time period the prelude invariably goes as follows. All one has to do to look into the face of true evil, to see the devil incarnate, the murderous butcher, etc. etc.
If you want to take a contemporary perspective I believe the Reich and obama are inversely proportionate. One can not have any legitimate concerns about obamas flat out lies, broken promises, ineffective leadership, etc. without eventually being called a racist. As matter of fact it was on the national news a while ago that the question was posed that "if one disagrees with obama, does that make them a racist?" Give me a freaking break, as this guy has gotten one, as well as a free pass on nearly every lie he has ever told. Don't disagree with Obama, as you too will be a racist.
The same holds true for the Reich. Don't ever say any good came of the leadership. Don't say that the nation was by magnitudes far more advanced than was nearly any other nation. During the war it was amazing the amount of innovation that took place in the ream of multiple disciplines. They made advances in the fields of biology, physics esp. optics, as well as the electron microscope, medicine, rocketry, and of course engineering. Their weapons were by far better than ours, their engineering prowess made us look like incompetent fools.
These people were like vectors. They had drive, force, intellect, and direction. Comparatively speaking, ask any american now where is this country going? What are our goals? Where do we see ourselves being in 20 years? Is anyone on either side optimistic? Do we have any "national goals" or are we nothing but an amalgamation of separate racial states within a state, without a common identity or purpose? Neither side of our political spectrum can even come up with answers to such basic simple questions. They could, they did, and they kicked ass. Were it not for inept leadership I'm certain they would have owned most of Europe.
German children were taught the value of intellectual pursuits as well as the virtues of athleticism and self reliance/determinism. They gave to the poor, volunteered their time to help the elderly, and had a mantra of none will starve or freeze. Well, every year we have elderly freeze to death in my state. Many seniors go without adequate food as well as health care. The Germans didn't. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winterhilfswerk
Watch the news here, all you see is kids in gangs, beating and stealing from the elderly. Athleticism or intellectualism? What a joke. American children are some of the fattest most ignorant bastards on this planet. If you ever see any that actually help seniors or have even the most minuscule amount of drive, they are called "heroes". The skinheads and KKK are no more like the Nazis, than the tea partiers are like the original founding fathers/sons of liberty.
As for many of the german films and literature they are called propaganda. What is propaganda? Here we call it the media, and therefor it has a legitimate ring to it. Due to the fact most Americans don't feel they are being influenced by it, or that if even exists, illustrates just how well it is working.
Watch the (triumph of the will, 1934). Since it is a know fact that most news agencies are owned by those of the jewish persuasion, does that mean we are all subject to zionist propaganda? Or is it only so when we don't agree with the message?
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zappaisgod
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said:
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Che Guevara was a murderous piece of shit who died cowering and Murray Rothbard is almost equally scummy.
'Shoot, coward, you are only going to kill a man' (as recalled by his executioner, in contrast to the lying opportunistic CIA agent who used to torture for Batista, & who worked w/a Nazi war criminal for help to capture him), by a man who risked his life countless times & never as a for profit mercenary but rather fighting for the poor, is not "cowering." Murray Rothbard scum? If that's what you think of libertarians, so be it.
Portugal & drug laws; look it up if you don't already know. basically the rest of the developed world is light years ahead of the U.S. in drug policy, btw.
Imperialism is not "national defense." Supporting pro-American dictators abroad is not "national defense." It is, however, big government of the highest magnitude, & right-wingers of the "moral majority" have unquestioning loyalty to it no matter what is ask them to do & to support (torture & execute peasant civilians in Central America, torture civilians or otherwise common criminals at Abu Ghraib, killing civilians in drone strike, etc.)
America does not practice imperialism. If they did all of SA would be protectorates. The criminals of Abu Graib were prosecuted in courts of law. The rest of the world is, except in the view of blinkered idiots, at least as repressive as the US regarding drug laws. You spew endless bullshit.
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy


Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
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zappaisgod said: America does not practice imperialism.
false ..iraq and afghanistan...
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The criminals of Abu Graib were prosecuted in courts of law.
mostly false but still partly true ..some of them were..but the big fish got away...
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The rest of the world is, except in the view of blinkered idiots, at least as repressive as the US regarding drug laws.
absolutely..positively..false ..go to amsterdam...
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You spew endless bullshit.
you should be talking...
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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said:
You are a pathetic ignorant racist, revealing the indistinguishable link between the far right & underlying Nazi ideology.
lol
What's this now? Indistinguishable link between far right and its underlying Nazi ideology?
This seems pretty absurd- ridiculous. I don't know what else to say other than appeal to ridicule, as you don't seem to have bothered to share any evidence of that which is indistinguishable from... Nazism? What is "far right" anyways?
Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said:
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Che Guevara was a murderous piece of shit who died cowering and Murray Rothbard is almost equally scummy.
'Shoot, coward, you are only going to kill a man' (as recalled by his executioner, in contrast to the lying opportunistic CIA agent who used to torture for Batista, & who worked w/a Nazi war criminal for help to capture him), by a man who risked his life countless times & never as a for profit mercenary but rather fighting for the poor, is not "cowering." Murray Rothbard scum? If that's what you think of libertarians, so be it.
How was Che Guevara a man who fought for the poor? This seems a pretty rose-colored filter of that which he did. He fought for his ideology: the poor where the fuel that he tried to exploit for his support, both succesfully and not in varying cases.
To say he did what he did for the poor, rather than for power, for ideology, against hated regimes, et cet seems to be taking a selective view of things.
How did he view the poor who didn't agree with his particular ideology and plans- those in the Congo and Bolivia who were less than suitably enthusiastic at the thought of violent struggle? My understanding was that it was to call them ignorant and fools. Rather than "fighting for them" it seemed he used them when it suited his purposes and ignored them when it didn't- to say nothing of what happened in Cuba once he got his way.
Anyways: what does Guevera's merit have to do with that of the CIA who opposed him or the worth of Batista? Even the US disliked and eventually left Batista, despite their views on the alternative: it doesn't say a whole lot to say someone was better than Batista.
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Imperialism is not "national defense." Supporting pro-American dictators abroad is not "national defense."
What imperialism are you referring to? I don't think anyone is arguing that imperialism is "national defense", but I doubt are definitions of imperialism have much in common.
How is supporting pro-American dictators abroad not national defense? Seems like it would be by definition: if they like America they don't fight america.
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pouihi
Mary Jane Doe



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 2,384
Last seen: 2 years, 27 days
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Re: Nationalsozialismus [Re: johnm214]
#14316375 - 04/19/11 10:00 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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DictatorSHIT is shit be it left or right.
Although Nazi stood for national socialism, it wasn't socialist at all, but right-winged. Just as he was retarded enough to pick an hindu symbol and probably would burn all hindus if he could.
One balled, gay, frustrated, austrian, jew descendant looser.
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"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."
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GI_Luvmoney
Vote Republican!


Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 939
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Deleted by Seuss - Keep it polite or take a vacation.
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 3,060
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What ever happened to the OP...
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum



Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 3,322
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
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Re: Nationalsozialismus [Re: ChuangTzu] 1
#14321614 - 04/20/11 05:43 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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ChuangTzu said: What ever happened to the OP...
Yah, I wanted a chance to show off how much I know about Nazism and film
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Nationalsozialismus [Re: ChuangTzu]
#14321886 - 04/20/11 08:12 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
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ChuangTzu said: What ever happened to the OP...
Anna's avatar scared him away.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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I find it exciting but I'm kinda jaded. A little danger is stimulating.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Nationalsozialismus [Re: johnm214]
#14339066 - 04/23/11 03:34 PM (13 years, 29 days ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/05/22 07:50 PM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Yeah you stated it in your first post. It was ignorant and misleading. You cite their hatred for communists but that was just a power struggle between two groups with similar statist ideologies. You also cited their desire, falsely attributed as right wing, to subjugate the third world. There is nothing right wing about that nor do you bother to mention that they were trying to subjugate the entire world, not just the third world.
Just because you spouted a bunch of afactual nonsense earlier in a thread doesn't make it any less nonsensical.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/05/22 07:50 PM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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EntheogenicPeace said: What's ignorant & misleading is your scale of left = statist & right = anti-statist since this would mean the religious right in U.S. are very much radical leftists, & 19th century Russian anarchists were right-wing extremists, as i already expounded upon.
You have expounded on much shit at some length. It remains shit. What specifically do you find "statist" about the religious right? That they oppose abortion? Do you think it is statist to prosecute murderers? And only a blithering idiot would conflate anarchy with the limited government positions taken by the right in this country and elsewhere. Though they are certainly anti state their positions have not one damn thing to do with the responsible proponents of limited government. To propose otherwise is idiotic. Also irrelevant to a discussion of whether nazism is anti-state because the Nazis were at odds with the Communists.Quote:
The one (notable) person who would exemplify the above scale, Murray Rothbard, you called "scum," I believe.
I don't recall labeling Rothbard as scum. You might have him confused with Lew Rockwell. Who is scum.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/05/22 07:51 PM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:
Che Guevara... piece of shit... and Murray Rothbard is almost equally scummy.
OK. I have no use for anarchists. Quote:
P.S. I listed more much than abortion (although they even want the morning after pill banned.)
Regarding the religious right? I didn't see any list. And their view of the morning after pill is that it is abortion, which is not incorrect. I'm going to ask again, what do you find particularly statist about the religious right? That they believe in law to protect innocents? The only alternative to socialism/communism is NOT anarchy. It is limited government. Not nonexistent government.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/05/22 07:52 PM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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I don't want to control the behavior of people when both parties consent. Build another straw man, pumpkin.
The morning after pill is abortive Hardly any religious want alcohol prohibition drug prohibition has wide support, not just by the religious right Not recognizing civil unions is not prohibiting homosexual behavior. Andrea Dwoerkin would prohibit porno, too, and she is not of the religious right There is almost no one left in the religious right who would forbid miscegenation. It is a fringe position.
Fred Phelps is no more representative of the religious right than Pol Pot is of Upper East Side limousine liberals but you keep living your bigoted lie.
That wasn't my post and yes, there is appropriate forms of government control. Anarchists are retards.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/05/22 07:53 PM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said: I don't care about your position; I said the religious right, unless you consider yourself to be among them.
No, hard-line prohibition policies are supported much more by ppl who call themselves conservative than liberal.
There are
Morning after pill is not necessary "abortion." In the circumstances that it is, I don't even think the first mitotic division has occurred in the window that the pill is supposedly effective; thus we are talking about a single cell.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/morning-after-pill/MY01190
As for interracial relationships, a poll came out fairly recently that I think said a majority of (white) ppl in the South have a favorable view of the Confederacy... thus the period of antebellum & the Jim Crow era that followed trying to retain its apartheid structures, of which a ban on "race mixing" was one of them.
Lastly, you said in a previous post on Nazi ideology that white supremacist doctrine wasn't necessarily based on a right-wing worldview. If so, name some left-wing white supremacist groups (i.e. some white supremacist groups that talk about things like the international working class solidarity & anti-war coalitions.)
That poll was suspect but I don't really care. It wasn't the religious right that shot down same sex marriage in California. I said nothing about supremacist groups.
The hard line left are the ones who want to regulate the food you can eat, not the religious right. They also have no interest in ending drug prohibition (I don't give two shits about separating pot out. All or none or you are a phony.)
Regarding abortion and the morning after pill if you believe human life begins at conception then the morning after pill is abortion. I don't agree with it but I understand it. Any other position is arbitrary. Which is fine. It is just important to understand that it is arbitrary. Blackmun based his legislation on medical technology of the time, i.e. that 6 months was pretty much the age of viability. Medicine has progressed since. Does that mean we should push the age of the fetus back before we can whack it?
Do not for one second believe that I harbor the same beliefs as the religious right. I do not. But I find them to be more honest and consistent than anything on the left
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/05/22 07:53 PM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said: Reason for the poll was that a week or two ago marked 150th anniversary of first shots that began the Civil War. Poll shows 1 in 4 Americans sympathize more w/confederacy than Union. In the South the % was closer to 40. Since I doubt too many blacks were among that 40%, based on demographics, that would I imagine mean something like 55-60% of white Southerners have more affection for the Confederacy & its cause than the Union & its cause.
http://sonsofconfederateveterans.blogspot.com/2011/04/war-for-southern-independence.html Not exactly a liberal site that doesn't have a problem accepting the validity of the poll.
Regulating food eaten? How's that worse than taking money from healthier states (i.e. blue states), sending it to Washington D.C., & then shipping it out to cover healthcare costs in less healthy states (i.e. red states, especially in the South.) On average blue states overwhelmingly pay in much more to D.C. than they get back, while red states (again, especially in the South) overwhelmingly receive much more than they pay in. Who's the lazy, deadbeat, "socialist" welfare recipients now?
As a conservative in a blue state, NY, I find it disgusting that my representatives fuck me at every turn. Whose fault is that? My stupid fucking liberal neighbors. The idiot bums and limousine liberal enablers who keep voting for Federal office liberals have no idea that if the federal government didn't fuck NY so much to help Mississippi the state government might be able to extract more money to help NYers who suck. (That isn't really true, I know. If NY raised its state taxes even more we would have the Tennessee Stock Exchange.)
By the way, do you know why NY manages to pay so much in taxes when upstate NY and much of NYC looks almost exactly like the poor South? Financial industry. Those fucking demon scum.[end sarc]
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