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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc: Flag
A complete history of the universe, from the Big Bang to the Internet, in a riveting 18 minutes. * 2
    #14278907 - 04/12/11 04:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

A captivating TED Talk, from finish to end.

Interestingly, the majority of his implications regarding complexity and novelty have already been expounded upon by Terence McKenna, albeit in a different language.

Edit: a major exception of course would be his disagreement with the origin of the universe and the Big Bang theory that, to quote McKenna, "sprang from nothing, out of nowhere, for no reason, in a single instant."



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Invisibleifoundwaldo


Registered: 09/28/10
Posts: 8,389
Loc: Denver, CO Flag
Re: A complete history of the universe, from the Big Bang to the Internet, in a riveting 18 minutes. [Re: The Whale]
    #14278943 - 04/12/11 04:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'm posting so I can check this out later.

But seeing as how you quoted this twice... to say that modern science believes that the universe "sprang from nothing, out of nowhere, for no reason, in a single instant" is the most ignorant statement I've ever heard. No offense to Mr. McKenna. Although I'm not a huge fan boy of his either.


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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc: Flag
Re: A complete history of the universe, from the Big Bang to the Internet, in a riveting 18 minutes. [Re: ifoundwaldo]
    #14278974 - 04/12/11 04:48 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ifoundwaldo said:
I'm posting so I can check this out later.

But seeing as how you quoted this twice... to say that modern science believes that the universe "sprang from nothing, out of nowhere, for no reason, in a single instant" is the most ignorant statement I've ever heard. No offense to Mr. McKenna. Although I'm not a huge fan boy of his either.




If that is the most ignorant statement you've ever heard, then you need to get your ear wax density checked.

Some say the ear wax candles actually work, despite SE Asian street charlatans.



A good place to buy them is here: http://www.earcandles.net/?gclid=CMH_042HmKgCFSUaQgod9SPxCw

In other news, the prevailing Big Bang theory posits that the universe went from an infinitely dense and infinitely "hot" singularity and then expanded and cooled according to various laws... just for shits and giggles of course. For the same reason, we have theories of abiogenesis and cosmic sporulation - because, according to Alan Watts' humor, this place just enjoys making more life.


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Invisibleifoundwaldo


Registered: 09/28/10
Posts: 8,389
Loc: Denver, CO Flag
Re: A complete history of the universe, from the Big Bang to the Internet, in a riveting 18 minutes. [Re: The Whale]
    #14278986 - 04/12/11 04:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Correct, it does.

Firstly, a singularity is not "nothing." The singularity did not spring "out of nowhere." And nothing happened in a single instant.

I guess you could say that it happened for no reason... If that's your prerogative.
So there's 1 for 4.

Oh yeah, and we evolved from stoned apes who ate mushrooms that came from outer space. :fasted:


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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc: Flag
Re: A complete history of the universe, from the Big Bang to the Internet, in a riveting 18 minutes. [Re: ifoundwaldo]
    #14279036 - 04/12/11 05:02 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


Firstly, a singularity is not "nothing." The singularity did not spring "out of nowhere." And nothing happened in a single instant.





Then it isn't very useful as an origin model of the universe, so why is it typically flaunted as such?

Quote:


I guess you could say that it happened for no reason... If that's your prerogative.
So there's 1 for 4.




Well, it is certainly a big jump to reverse our observations of natural laws and presuppose they work backwards in time in an identical fashion, all the while omitting any assumption about the origin or necessity of those laws themselves.

Going round in circles

"In contradiction to most cosmologists’ opinions, two scientists have found
evidence that the universe may have existed forever"

http://www.economist.com/node/17626874


Quote:


Oh yeah, and we evolved from stoned apes who ate mushrooms that came from outer space. :fasted:




McKenna was a brilliant story-teller, but whether his "stoned ape" theory (which is admittedly only one of many) is correct or not doesn't change the equally astonishing and improbable claims made by materialist cosmologists. Don't get all arrogant and pissy because I name-dropped Saint Terence.   

Nice ad hominems, btw.


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Invisibleifoundwaldo


Registered: 09/28/10
Posts: 8,389
Loc: Denver, CO Flag
Re: A complete history of the universe, from the Big Bang to the Internet, in a riveting 18 minutes. [Re: The Whale]
    #14279052 - 04/12/11 05:05 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

The Big Bang theory does not presuppose that the universe could not have existed forever.
It merely states that we have no frame of reference for the universe prior to the Big Bang.


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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc: Flag
Re: A complete history of the universe, from the Big Bang to the Internet, in a riveting 18 minutes. [Re: ifoundwaldo]
    #14279081 - 04/12/11 05:11 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

It merely states that we have no frame of reference for the universe prior to the Big Bang




This is more like it! I just wish this "missing frame" was made more obvious and referenced in examples of the theory.

This mysterious pre-history is likely more subject to philosophical rambling and quirky ideas, to which I say it would be a humbling move to place a disclaimer at the beginning of any research article that stated, "no one knows for sure, but..."

Otherwise, making fatal assumptions about the universe without knowing what preceded the big bang conditions is like reverse engineering an apple pie (yee-haw, Sagan) but forgetting that you can have all the essential ingredients but they don't make jack shit without a chef.


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Offlineconan
Alternate Internet Ego
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 501
Loc: Austin, TX
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: A complete history of the universe, from the Big Bang to the Internet, in a riveting 18 minutes. [Re: ifoundwaldo]
    #14279083 - 04/12/11 05:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ifoundwaldo said:
The Big Bang theory does not presuppose that the universe could  not have existed forever.
It merely states that we have no frame of reference for the universe prior to the Big Bang.



Kewl story :thumbup:

I found the video to be fucking great. A+ lecture as far as I'm concerned.

Gawd I love TED.


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Be Here Now

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Invisibleuber_aj
Goodbye Shroomery!
Male


Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 4,486
Loc: Much love to you all
Re: A complete history of the universe, from the Big Bang to the Internet, in a riveting 18 minutes. [Re: The Whale]
    #14279137 - 04/12/11 05:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The Whale said:
Going round in circles

"In contradiction to most cosmologists’ opinions, two scientists have found
evidence that the universe may have existed forever"

http://www.economist.com/node/17626874




Thanks for posting that! I love the idea of an oscillating universe that expands and contracts, it's always seemed the simplest answer of origin to me. Shiva's cosmic dance and whatnot/

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OfflineEnvix
Avoidant Disorder
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Registered: 11/04/08
Posts: 18,206
Last seen: 10 months, 26 days
Re: A complete history of the universe, from the Big Bang to the Internet, in a riveting 18 minutes. [Re: ifoundwaldo]
    #14279227 - 04/12/11 05:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

great stuff indeeeeed



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smack a hoe out this dimension
continue my ascension
-bhad bhabie

rip. todcasil, acid sloth, st1llnox, zappaisgod, big worm (sketch), tim b

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Offlinepropensity
۞̷ ̶۞̷ ̶
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 11,056
Loc: Bedrock America
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
Re: A complete history of the universe, from the Big Bang to the Internet, in a riveting 18 minutes. [Re: uber_aj]
    #14279246 - 04/12/11 05:43 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

uber_aj said:
Quote:

The Whale said:
Going round in circles

"In contradiction to most cosmologists’ opinions, two scientists have found
evidence that the universe may have existed forever"

http://www.economist.com/node/17626874




Thanks for posting that! I love the idea of an oscillating universe that expands and contracts, it's always seemed the simplest answer of origin to me. Shiva's cosmic dance and whatnot/




Most things seem to work in cycles such as this.. It only makes sense that it would be as such on the cosmic scale


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Invisibleuber_aj
Goodbye Shroomery!
Male


Registered: 11/13/05
Posts: 4,486
Loc: Much love to you all
Re: A complete history of the universe, from the Big Bang to the Internet, in a riveting 18 minutes. [Re: propensity]
    #14279302 - 04/12/11 05:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, that's the model I prefer, but from the little I understand about special relativity physics, the way things really work is frequently counter-intuitive to us.

I'm sure we'll have a slightly clearer picture before I die, I can't wait!

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InvisibleThe Whale

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 2,384
Loc: Flag
Re: A complete history of the universe, from the Big Bang to the Internet, in a riveting 18 minutes. [Re: uber_aj]
    #14279539 - 04/12/11 06:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Call me old fashioned, but I find more truth in the mystics.

Although knowledge - in any form - is never mutually exclusive, but rather complementary.



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Invisiblegerryjarcia
biophiliac
 User Gallery


Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 1,889
Loc: the woods
Re: A complete history of the universe, from the Big Bang to the Internet, in a riveting 18 minutes. [Re: The Whale]
    #14280195 - 04/12/11 08:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The Whale said:
Call me old fashioned, but I find more truth in the mystics.

Although knowledge - in any form - is never mutually exclusive, but rather complementary.






my personal gravitation to a more mystical worldview is greatly due in part to the imagination and free form creativity these mystics employed in describing the seen and unseen.

i'm not to certain of any particular "truth" that i find comfort in, but there is an absence amongst many mystics of the kind of arrogance and almost religious fundamentalism found in many modern day scientists.

that video was great, by the way. thanks for linking it.


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"We are all intoxicated. We were born into an insane asylum, a world crazy-making. We believe what we see and hear. The real myth is the myth of sanity, of rationality: it's a disease that is eating away at the earth. All the poisons flow from our denial. We deny madness, we forget our crimes, we dismember the corpse, we imprison our children. We need poison to poison the poison, to remember the sacred nature of intoxication, the green body of the young god." ~ Dale Pendell

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