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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Reality is an illusion
    #14277138 - 04/12/11 11:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I've read this message here and elsewhere many times.  Some folks intellecually embrace it.

Aside from the suicides, I'm not aware of any who live this philosophy.

It seems like a belief which, while embraced, provides some support in shoring up emotional detachment.  "Oh, it doesn't really matter that the bank foreclosed on my house.  It's all an illusion anyways."

In my opinion, after it has served it's purpose in cleaning house psychologically, it becomes another bit of cognitive dissonance and must eventually be discarded to allow continued growth.

Does anyone disagree or have a different understanding of the the phrase?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Reality is an illusion [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #14277149 - 04/12/11 11:48 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I know that the Mayans were big believers of Maya.


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OfflineDamkina
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Re: Reality is an illusion [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #14277159 - 04/12/11 11:50 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Even if it is an illusion,at the moment it is real indeed.As long as we percieve everything through our brain filtrers,and we are NOT using our full brain potential,I find  talking about what is real and what is illusionary worthless. All we actually know is that the world is a strange place indeed. We don`t know how we got here,and where we are heading. We as humanity have much more to discover.


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OfflineKingkuper
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Re: Reality is an illusion [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #14277205 - 04/12/11 12:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DisoRDeR said:
I've read this message here and elsewhere many times.  Some folks intellecually embrace it.

Aside from the suicides, I'm not aware of any who live this philosophy.

It seems like a belief which, while embraced, provides some support in shoring up emotional detachment.  "Oh, it doesn't really matter that the bank foreclosed on my house.  It's all an illusion anyways."

In my opinion, after it has served it's purpose in cleaning house psychologically, it becomes another bit of cognitive dissonance and must eventually be discarded to allow continued growth.

Does anyone disagree or have a different understanding of the the phrase?




were all to scared to drop the illusion. weve been living in it.. well, forever.


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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Re: Reality is an illusion [Re: Damkina]
    #14277333 - 04/12/11 12:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Damkina said:
Even if it is an illusion,at the moment it is real indeed...
...I find  talking about what is real and what is illusionary worthless.




Yes, this about sums up my feelings on the matter, but..

Quote:

As long as we percieve everything through our brain filtrers,and we are NOT using our full brain potential




I'm not sure what you mean by brain filters...


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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Re: Reality is an illusion [Re: Kingkuper]
    #14277411 - 04/12/11 01:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Kingkuper said:

were all to scared to drop the illusion. weve been living in it.. well, forever.




Just so we're clear, could you define the limits of the illusion you're referring to?


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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: Reality is an illusion [Re: DisoRDeR] * 1
    #14277418 - 04/12/11 01:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

If everything is an illusion then there's no such thing as an illusion. :shrug:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Reality is an illusion [Re: NetDiver] * 1
    #14277438 - 04/12/11 01:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Everything is a miracle and we are all special.


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Offlinedesert father
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Re: Reality is an illusion [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #14277527 - 04/12/11 01:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

i believe it to be a concept that once understood, you transcend the initial reasoning, as in it's useless to begin with, but you need this train of thought to get you the point where it doesn't matter anyway, like you said.

wow does that make sense?


--------------------
vi veri veniversum vivus vici

What she said :
"I smoke 'cos I'm hoping for an
Early death
AND I NEED TO CLING TO SOMETHING !"


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OfflineKingkuper
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Re: Reality is an illusion [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #14277572 - 04/12/11 01:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DisoRDeR said:
Quote:

Kingkuper said:

were all to scared to drop the illusion. weve been living in it.. well, forever.




Just so we're clear, could you define the limits of the illusion you're referring to?




there are no limits. almost like the movie matrix but not so scifi-like. are minds are creating this illusion. to the tiniest detail. im not saying i believe that. just saying thats the argument on that side.


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Offlinesoldatheero
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Re: Reality is an illusion [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #14277692 - 04/12/11 02:17 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I believe that what we experience is there and exists it's just it doesn't exist the way we assume it does. We give too much trust to our own senses in that we believe our sensing\experiencing of the external world is that actual reality of what exists that causes this experience. That is maya..

Immanuel Kant pointed out that we are limited to our perceptions and claimed this thinking would bring about a revolution known as the "Copernican Revolution".


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.


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Offlineandrewss
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Re: Reality is an illusion [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14278148 - 04/12/11 03:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Everything is a miracle and we are all special.







--------------------
Jesus loves you.


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OfflineShroomScape
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Re: Reality is an illusion [Re: andrewss]
    #14278941 - 04/12/11 06:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Lame Philosophy Joke:

Quote:


A guru was in a giant tent giving a lecture to his disciples about how reality is just an illusion, that none of it is real, that we are constantly trapped in a web of appearance that can never penetrate to 'real' reality, and that reality is just a manifestation of our mind.

Suddenly, a stampede of bulls ripped through the tent threatening to trample everyone. As everyone ran away in a frenzy being chased by the bulls, one student caught up to the guru and asked,

"Master, if reality is an illusion, why are you running away?"

To which the master replied,

"Ah ha! It only appears that I am running away."






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OfflineKingkuper
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Re: Reality is an illusion [Re: ShroomScape]
    #14280352 - 04/12/11 10:47 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ShroomScape said:
Lame Philosophy Joke:

Quote:


A guru was in a giant tent giving a lecture to his disciples about how reality is just an illusion, that none of it is real, that we are constantly trapped in a web of appearance that can never penetrate to 'real' reality, and that reality is just a manifestation of our mind.

Suddenly, a stampede of bulls ripped through the tent threatening to trample everyone. As everyone ran away in a frenzy being chased by the bulls, one student caught up to the guru and asked,

"Master, if reality is an illusion, why are you running away?"

To which the master replied,

"Ah ha! It only appears that I am running away."









omg that is halarious. that made my night after a grueling long day at work.


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OfflineShroomScape
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Re: Reality is an illusion [Re: Kingkuper]
    #14280364 - 04/12/11 10:50 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

If that joke made your day, then i feel sorry for you sir.


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OfflineKingkuper
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Re: Reality is an illusion [Re: ShroomScape]
    #14280418 - 04/12/11 10:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ShroomScape said:
If that joke made your day, then i feel sorry for you sir.




Thanks


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: Reality is an illusion [Re: Kingkuper]
    #14282260 - 04/13/11 06:41 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I think this problem is very easily solved -

Reality is an illusion, in teh sense that, there is something deeper than the reality that we experience.

However this does not mean that things are not worth caring about!

We are stuck in the illusion for as long as we live. The illusion makes us feel pleasure and pain. These are not unreal, they just do not represent the 'deeper reality'.

The eastern religions wanted to avoid pain, because although pleasure exists, pain was much more common to most people - disease, famine, oppression, are all common themes in our human history.

They saw that worldly pleasure came with pain, and so from this they reasoned that one ought to discard pleasures in their search for serenity.


This is not very significant today - we can all avoid a lot of pain in our society.


We can manipulate the illusion, we can make it very pleasurable.

But we must take it seriously because it affects us while we live.


To commit suicide in belief that life is just an illusion only makes sense if you have a burning desire to experience the true reality. But since we will all see that when we die (If such a claim is true), then we may as well make the most of the illusion for as long as possible!

And in order to do that, one must respect the illusion and tread carefully....

OR PARTY ALL NIGHT LONG!!!!


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OfflineSimms
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Re: Reality is an illusion [Re: Noteworthy]
    #14282926 - 04/13/11 11:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

If life is illusion, then I would ask:

a) Am I an illusion?
b) I am a part of that big illusion?
c) Or am I real and just experiencing illusion?

A and B make no big difference. If I am a part of illusion, and an (somebodys) illusion myself, then this illusion is my reality and I am real.

C would make me want to experience the real reality. The ultimate real.


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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: Reality is an illusion [Re: Simms]
    #14283072 - 04/13/11 12:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Thats a good question. The answer is that you are not an illusion. Illusions have to do with the content of a perception, not the fact of percieving.

However, your body might be said to be an illusion.


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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Re: Reality is an illusion [Re: Noteworthy]
    #14283651 - 04/13/11 02:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Simms said:
a) Am I an illusion?
b) I am a part of that big illusion?
c) Or am I real and just experiencing illusion?





Yeah, your a) and b) taken as true seem irrelevant, but might inspire further reflection. 

Point c) I suspect to be a bit of a slippery, delusional ditch and convenient avenue of wallowing and waffling away worldly responsibilities.

Quote:

Noteworthy said:

However, your body might be said to be an illusion.




My body, or my concept of 'my body'? :smirk:


Hmm, on further consideration of my original post, 'discarded' seems an inappropriate term.  Perhaps 'set aside' is better suited.  This way of thinking is more of a shovel for digging deeper.

I suppose I was conflating the idea that my little gestalt gallery is an illusion with the idea that the reality within which we exist is an illusion.

Within my reality, there are many boundaries.  Illusions require boundaries.  Zooming in on the lines we draw on the world has been a healthy practice for me. 

Reality is cohesive and internally consistent.  With our pattern-matching ways we try to fit a curve to the sensations we see, but error creeps in as we bring extrapolated shapes from our imagination forth and filter experience through them.  But we are trial and error monkeys, aren't we?  Best not to grasp too tightly to anything, including the shovel.

Some don't bother to pick up the shovel to begin with.  Most dig a ways then build a foundation.  Some discard the structure after a time and keep digging.  Techniques are the earth movers, but beliefs are the building.  Are we trying to tunnel through to the other side?  Which way do I go to get there again?  Step into my structure and I'll show you...  :satansmoking:


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