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OfflineKingkuper
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Dubstep Debate
    #14277065 - 04/12/11 09:24 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

We all love dubstep.. well sadly not all, but is this new dubstep (often called brostep) with all the WUBWUBWUBWOBBLEWOBBLE wobble bass and high pitched melody really dubstep? or has dubstep created something entirely new? i hope its the latter because i like them both but i would be disappointed greatly if the original dubstep sound was stopped being made. if we just take all the new wobble bass Dubstep and permenatly name it a different genre (like brostep!) then hopefully that new genre will continue and so will the old classic dubstep genre also.
Make sense?


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Offlinecbhead23
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: Kingkuper]
    #14277182 - 04/12/11 09:59 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Everyone has a different opinion on what's what...

I definitely can relate to where you are coming from.  I've loved electronic music for the past 10 years.  When dubstep came out, it fucked my mind so hard, and I loved it.

The 'filthy wobbles and sick drops' are whats hot now, but I hope it's just a fad.  People are hopping on the cool bandwagon of transformer sounds and OMGRAVELOL.  I have very little patience for that sound...

In 5 years though, I don't think anyone will still be listening to OMGFILTHYDROPS. People will move on to the next 'hip' thing. 

It will be down to the true heads and enthusiasts which will hopefully make for a better time all around!  Most importantly better music, but also a better crowd with better vibes!

Producers have and will continue to put out hot tracks, but sadly the majority of people only dig the robot sound, so good shit is always overlooked.  It's not spun at parties or clubs because it's not the hit thing right now...

I await the second coming of dubheads and fat tunes (or at least, the cleansing of transformer wobbles and the crowd it brings) but until then.....

:bigjoint::bigjoint::bigjoint:


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OfflineKingkuper
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: cbhead23]
    #14277191 - 04/12/11 10:04 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

cbhead23 said:
but until then.....

:bigjoint::bigjoint::bigjoint:




hahahaha im right behind you. but i also do like the big drops and wobble wobble, but its deff going way to far. and repetitive. overall boring. too bad the only true dubstep now are the "oldies". maybe thats what 2012 will bring? the end of shitty "dubstep"..


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Offlineriglow
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: Kingkuper]
    #14277270 - 04/12/11 10:26 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Of course it's dubstep, it just has topline leads instead of the typical driving bass of older productions.

There are still plenty of producers making the old-school "rooty" sound of dubstep with the level of production standardized in 2011. These labels and producers won't be going away and they certainly won't cave in to the sounds of nu-skool dubstep. They are the heads and fans producers of DMZ and FWD>> before dubstep had a name.

Dubstep used to be "bass at 140" and producers started to experiment with tempo (it's experimental dance music, so of course they're going to.). That previous requisite of being at 140bpm was thrown out. While dubstep has carved out its niche and has very distinct characteristics, it has changed to just being all-around bass music.

As you guys and many others have predicted, the old school sound is going to overtake the nu-skool because of the sheer volume and dedication of the fans. I think 2011 will be the year if not 2012.

I'll definitely be doing my part to help. I have dabbled in production and tend to create minimal tunes that focus on a "smart" percussion pattern and driving sub bass rhythms.

I run my own promotional dubstep blog and I tend to feature sub-bass centric dubstep (that I playfully call substep) and, when I feature tearout tunes, they need to have soul. Music without soul is art without life -- it feels cold, dead, and people just don't seem to understand it. Dubstep has a very strong life-force and a bold message. If you're hearing dubstep that doesn't have either of those things it is probably from a bandwagon producer.


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OfflineKingkuper
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: riglow]
    #14277285 - 04/12/11 10:29 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

riglow said:
Of course it's dubstep, it just has topline leads instead of the typical driving bass of older productions.

There are still plenty of producers making the old-school "rooty" sound of dubstep with the level of production standardized in 2011. These labels and producers won't be going away and they certainly won't cave in to the sounds of nu-skool dubstep. They are the heads and fans producers of DMZ and FWD>> before dubstep had a name.

Dubstep used to be "bass at 140" and producers started to experiment with tempo (it's experimental dance music, so of course they're going to.). That previous requisite of being at 140bpm was thrown out. While dubstep has carved out its niche and has very distinct characteristics, it has changed to just being all-around bass music.




well then lets call it bass music and keep the original dubstep. i like them both but i dont want the classic sound going away.


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Offlineriglow
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: Kingkuper]
    #14277297 - 04/12/11 10:31 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Kingkuper said:well then lets call it bass music and keep the original dubstep. i like them both but i dont want the classic sound going away.




D'oh! You got in before my not-so-ninja edit. :E

The classic sound will never die.


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OfflineKingkuper
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: riglow]
    #14277304 - 04/12/11 10:34 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

riglow said:


The classic sound will never die.




hopefully not.


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OfflineDamkina
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: riglow]
    #14277312 - 04/12/11 10:36 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Dubstep was awesome like 5 years ago. Nothing was better than iming some k,smoking a few puffs of a spliff and melting into the couch.:sun:

Now..dubstep kinda went mainstream,and the scene is full of retards.


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OfflineKingkuper
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: Damkina]
    #14277316 - 04/12/11 10:37 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Damkina said:
the scene is full of retards.




i completely 100% agree with this statement.


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Offlineriglow
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: Kingkuper]
    #14277359 - 04/12/11 10:52 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Kingkuper said:
Quote:

Damkina said:
the scene is full of retards.




i completely 100% agree with this statement.




+1. I've been to a few dubstep raves that are jam packed with headliners like Datsik, Rusko, Downlink, and Excision. The tearout dubstep is cool but it's REALLY hard to listen to from the start of a rave to the end. The crowd is also full of a bunch of idiots who probably don't even know what they're listening to and are too drugged out to think the music they are listening to is anything but amazing. In every case but Datsik I left early.

The best show I've seen so far has been Reso headlining a show. There were probably less than 200 people there and the dancefloor was practically empty, but he banged out an amazing set with fresh tunes. I wish UK artists would come more often.

I'm going to see Rusko again this month in Chicago because I know he's got a fresh bag of dubs that have been going through the UK circuit and they are going to slam in the club. Rusko brings a pretty sick vibe and his teaser video makes his live setup look really sick.


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Offlinecbhead23
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: riglow]
    #14277601 - 04/12/11 11:50 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

MORE DEEP VIBES!!
:thumbup:


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Offlineriglow
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: cbhead23]
    #14279718 - 04/12/11 07:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

cbhead23 said:
MORE DEEP VIBES!!
:thumbup:




100%! GetDarker just started their non-compilation label this year. First release is a deep Kromestar ting backed with a collaboration with Dark Tantrums. DJ Darkside predicts 2011 being the year for rooty dubstep. I'm sure him and the rest of the GetDarker will be doing theirs to make sure it happens.


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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: riglow]
    #14285327 - 04/13/11 05:31 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Dubstep was something dark in a pub in England, it has evolved so much... It's versatile, I see acid, techno, breakcore, reggae, ... artists all integrating or producing their own dubstep sound.

I like it all to be honest. Especially the more industrial sounds :lol: . The drop bass is just something for teens (IMO)

There are more sophisticated artists bringing good sets other then 2 minute drop songs :awetongue:


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OfflineKingkuper
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: Beanhead]
    #14286744 - 04/13/11 09:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Beanhead said:
The drop bass is just something for teens (IMO)





NOT TRUE. i know a ton of adults who love drop bass "dubstep" as well as good ol' DUBSTEP.
It doesnt have to be sophisticated or technical to be good. just the sound of it is good. people are to wrapped up in technical or sophisticated music, but sound is where it is all at. the metal band the chariot is a math core band and they are mathy and technical as fuck and they sound terrible.


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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: Kingkuper]
    #14290975 - 04/14/11 04:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Kingkuper said:
Quote:

Beanhead said:
The drop bass is just something for teens (IMO)





NOT TRUE. i know a ton of adults who love drop bass "dubstep" as well as good ol' DUBSTEP.
It doesnt have to be sophisticated or technical to be good. just the sound of it is good. people are to wrapped up in technical or sophisticated music, but sound is where it is all at. the metal band the chariot is a math core band and they are mathy and technical as fuck and they sound terrible.



Skrillex is for the kiddies. That is what dude was trying to say.


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: Kingkuper]
    #14291156 - 04/14/11 04:26 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Kingkuper said:
Quote:

Beanhead said:
The drop bass is just something for teens (IMO)





NOT TRUE. i know a ton of adults who love drop bass "dubstep" as well as good ol' DUBSTEP.
It doesnt have to be sophisticated or technical to be good. just the sound of it is good. people are to wrapped up in technical or sophisticated music, but sound is where it is all at. the metal band the chariot is a math core band and they are mathy and technical as fuck and they sound terrible.



I disagree the chariot sounds awesome.... and if you've ever seen them live... holy fuck, never have I seen another band even touch the amount of intensity they put into their shows.

But most people can't stand music full of so much noise and feedback, its a stylistic thang :wink:


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Offlinejammin
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: twighead]
    #14291365 - 04/14/11 05:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

dubstep has definately changed. Most dubstep is now "girly" in a sense. Dubstep used to be more hard with good drops with strong bass. none of the high pitched shit like it is now.

Bassnectar sticks to the goods stuff...


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Offlinecbhead23
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: jammin]
    #14291842 - 04/14/11 06:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

jammin said:
dubstep has definately changed. Most dubstep is now "girly" in a sense. Dubstep used to be more hard with good drops with strong bass. none of the high pitched shit like it is now.

Bassnectar sticks to the goods stuff...




In terms of deep, dark dubstep, Bassnectar does not bring the heat...

I saw him 3 years ago, and had a fucking blast!!  I saw him 3 months ago, and it was huge drop after huge drop of machine bass...

I love his older stuff and have been a huge fan for years but his cookie-cutter dubstep just doesn't even cut it for me....what a shame the direction he took....

Sorry man, I hate to be 'that guy'....


Edited by cbhead23 (04/14/11 06:30 PM)


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Offlineriglow
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: jammin]
    #14292158 - 04/14/11 07:42 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

jammin said:Bassnectar sticks to the goods stuff...




I couldn't disagree more with this statement. Bassnectar is not established in the scene where the dubstep pioneers are and does not have the same influence in his music or in his DJ sets.

I still enjoy his performances, but only on a surface level. I see him for the party vibe as well as his okay selection.


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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: riglow]
    #14294406 - 04/15/11 07:29 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I think so many n00bs are quick to call bassnectar dubstep not noticing the drastic tempo variances in the tracks in his set. 160 bpm is more drum n bass than dubstep. And the half time surely isnt dubstep.  Actually out of what he played at nocturnal last year only 2 of the entire set were dubstep tracks. Bassnectar's production as of late is not my cup of tea, but that dude can build a set like no one else is doing right now and execute it live and fresh each time.


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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: jammin]
    #14294410 - 04/15/11 07:30 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

jammin said:
dubstep has definately changed. Most dubstep is now "girly" in a sense. Dubstep used to be more hard with good drops with strong bass. none of the high pitched shit like it is now.

Bassnectar sticks to the goods stuff...




This is either deep sarcasm, or you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. Im going for the former.


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #14294521 - 04/15/11 08:30 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomDoom said:
I think so many n00bs are quick to call bassnectar dubstep not noticing the drastic tempo variances in the tracks in his set. 160 bpm is more drum n bass than dubstep. And the half time surely isnt dubstep.  Actually out of what he played at nocturnal last year only 2 of the entire set were dubstep tracks. Bassnectar's production as of late is not my cup of tea, but that dude can build a set like no one else is doing right now and execute it live and fresh each time.



If you ask me its the style rather than the tempo that more defines a genre (though stylistically as well not all his songs are dub..which is good.. variety :thumbup:), half time could still be 140 - just played with a half time feel... and 160 oh my gawwd so drastic :lol:


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Edited by twighead (04/15/11 08:40 AM)


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Offlineriglow
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: twighead]
    #14294613 - 04/15/11 08:57 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

twighead said:If you ask me its the style rather than the tempo that more defines a genre


Unfortunately, that's not true and not a matter of opinion.
Quote:

(though stylistically as well not all his songs are dub..which is good.. variety :thumbup:),


He also does not have any tracks that are dub </genre_snob_mode>
Quote:

half time could still be 140 - just played with a half time feel... and 160 oh my gawwd so drastic :lol:


160 is the start of drum and bass tempo. Dubstep is not half-time that feels like 140, it's 140 and half-time so the percussion pattern feels even slower.



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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: twighead]
    #14294650 - 04/15/11 09:06 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

twighead said:
Quote:

ShroomDoom said:
I think so many n00bs are quick to call bassnectar dubstep not noticing the drastic tempo variances in the tracks in his set. 160 bpm is more drum n bass than dubstep. And the half time surely isnt dubstep.  Actually out of what he played at nocturnal last year only 2 of the entire set were dubstep tracks. Bassnectar's production as of late is not my cup of tea, but that dude can build a set like no one else is doing right now and execute it live and fresh each time.



If you ask me its the style rather than the tempo that more defines a genre (though stylistically as well not all his songs are dub..which is good.. variety :thumbup:), half time could still be 140 - just played with a half time feel... and 160 oh my gawwd so drastic :lol:



the point is at least there is a variance. of course 140 to 160 is not a difficult transition in an ableton set (try that on vinyl though :wink: ) and there are other tempos and styles of music that he plays. You are downplaying the significance of it.Maybe you havent been out to many shows, because i have seen countless dubstep headliners play straight 140-145 the entire set.

style is relative. there can be a various styles within the same genre. tempo and syncopation are a framework that help to structurally define the music. make a track at 190 and call it dubstep and see how many people agree with you. Not happening.

Quote:

half time could still be 140 - just played with a half time feel




when i cut 160 in half its not 140. its 80. you missed the point entirely of what I was saying because you suck at math.



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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #14294682 - 04/15/11 09:14 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

He also does not have any tracks that are dub </genre_snob_mode>
Quote:




How many of these kangol hat wearing little shits have that word on their mouth and never once heard king tubby's bionic horn? kids these days.


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: riglow]
    #14294719 - 04/15/11 09:27 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomDoom said:
Quote:

twighead said:
Quote:

ShroomDoom said:
I think so many n00bs are quick to call bassnectar dubstep not noticing the drastic tempo variances in the tracks in his set. 160 bpm is more drum n bass than dubstep. And the half time surely isnt dubstep.  Actually out of what he played at nocturnal last year only 2 of the entire set were dubstep tracks. Bassnectar's production as of late is not my cup of tea, but that dude can build a set like no one else is doing right now and execute it live and fresh each time.



If you ask me its the style rather than the tempo that more defines a genre (though stylistically as well not all his songs are dub..which is good.. variety :thumbup:), half time could still be 140 - just played with a half time feel... and 160 oh my gawwd so drastic :lol:



the point is at least there is a variance. of course 140 to 160 is not a difficult transition in an ableton set (try that on vinyl though :wink: ) and there are other tempos and styles of music that he plays. You are downplaying the significance of it.Maybe you havent been out to many shows, because i have seen countless dubstep headliners play straight 140-145 the entire set.

style is relative. there can be a various styles within the same genre. tempo and syncopation are a framework that help to structurally define the music. make a track at 190 and call it dubstep and see how many people agree with you. Not happening.

Quote:

half time could still be 140 - just played with a half time feel




when i cut 160 in half its not 140. its 80. you missed the point entirely of what I was saying because you suck at math.





Yeah I know everyone plays 140~ the whole damn set, but that doesn't mean you can't have a transition that brings you into another tempo temporarily - but effectively doing this and not messing up peoples dancing 'groove' is rough and beyond the compositional capabilities of most dubstep artists.

Maybe you should reread my last sentence, you know cause your reading comprehension sucks. I meant that the tempo can be set at 140 and the drums can be sequenced in a way that gives it a half time feel, I doubt the dude went in and actually set the tempo to 70 (unless it spans the whole song), more likely he composed to give it a feel of half time - thus still 140.


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: riglow]
    #14294732 - 04/15/11 09:33 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomDoom said:
Quote:

He also does not have any tracks that are dub </genre_snob_mode>
Quote:




How many of these kangol hat wearing little shits have that word on their mouth and never once heard king tubby's bionic horn? kids these days.



and shit- DUBSTEP.

I know what dub itself is, I'm just saving time - I assumed you capable of extrapolating meaning from context :rolleyes:


Quote:

riglow said:
Quote:

twighead said:If you ask me its the style rather than the tempo that more defines a genre


Unfortunately, that's not true and not a matter of opinion.
Quote:

(though stylistically as well not all his songs are dub..which is good.. variety :thumbup:),


He also does not have any tracks that are dub </genre_snob_mode>
Quote:

half time could still be 140 - just played with a half time feel... and 160 oh my gawwd so drastic :lol:


160 is the start of drum and bass tempo. Dubstep is not half-time that feels like 140, it's 140 and half-time so the percussion pattern feels even slower.





Speak for yourself, unfortunately there was never an official convention of what defines dubstep so my opinion is as valid as your 'fact' - its more dependent on style than tempo to me. That said they're all almost 140 and since most of it is made for dancing so there isn't much variation from that - perhaps I am too used to the rest of the music out there that can transition tempos from 70 up to 240 all in one song and still stay in the same genre...


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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: twighead]
    #14294787 - 04/15/11 09:51 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

but effectively doing this and not messing up peoples dancing 'groove' is rough and beyond the compositional capabilities of most dubstep artists




It's not a problem of composition, its an issue of programming and mixing skill on the Dj's part. In ableton this can be done easily with the proper warping of tracks, skillfully placing the markers so that you can manually change the global tempo mixing into the next track up 20 maybe 30 bpm if you want and still not mess up the overall groove or trainwreck the mix. It's not rough when executed properly, on the contrary it's refreshing to be "warped" into another groove like that on the dancefloor. A change of pace that is easy on the ears. 
Quote:

perhaps I am too used to the rest of the music out there that can transition tempos from 70 up to 240 all in one song and still stay in the same genre... /quote]

jazz, classical, death metal, and IDM do this but Im hard pressed to find funk, soul, pop, hip hop, or mainstream music that changes BPMs that much in the same song.

got some examples?


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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #14294808 - 04/15/11 09:57 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Between tracks is one thing, within a single song though its a compositional thing - you need some sort of transition (which would probably just consist of a gradual tempo increase under a building beat..) to bind the 140 to the 160.

I probably couldn't give you many examples of funk, soul, pop, or hiphop/mainstream music that does that because I mostly listen to jazz, classical, death metal, and IDM :tongue:

but here's what I'd consider a dubstep song that seems to be about 160 BPM~... I would defnitely call it dubstep far before I would DnB..



some people in the comments claim 145~ but tapping it out in ableton sets me 156-160~


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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: twighead]
    #14294951 - 04/15/11 10:39 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

twighead said:Speak for yourself, unfortunately there was never an official convention of what defines dubstep


Yeah? Bass at 140 with half-time percussion rhythms. It's been defined as that from the start and has been diluted to mean "bass music." Ask any head and they'll tell you the definition, not what it has come to mean in connotation.
Quote:

so my opinion is as valid as your 'fact' - its more dependent on style than tempo to me.


Connotation != Denotation
Quote:

That said they're all almost 140 and since most of it is made for dancing so there isn't much variation from that


Right, that's an inherent part of electronic dance music. All of it is classified by BPM and drum patterns.
Quote:

perhaps I am too used to the rest of the music out there that can transition tempos from 70 up to 240 all in one song and still stay in the same genre...


Making you an ill authority on electronic dance music.


Edited by riglow (04/15/11 10:50 AM)


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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: twighead]
    #14294973 - 04/15/11 10:45 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

twighead said:but here's what I'd consider a dubstep song that seems to be about 160 BPM~... I would defnitely call it dubstep far before I would DnB..

[flash=425,344]http://www.youtube.com/v/L3gmMGUwxXc&fs=1&autoplay=1[/flah]

some people in the comments claim 145~ but tapping it out in ableton sets me 156-160~




In the comments: "iv got this on a mix album, revalomatic...its a lot slower on it and sounds more right, this defo sped up."

Try this one:



DJs also tend to speed up tracks to 145 for the hyped rave vibe.

A song at 160 with a half-time percussion pattern is not uncommon for drum and bass. There is an entire label dedicated to deep rollers around 170 bpm and they are all drum and bass tracks produced by mostly dubstep producers.


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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: riglow]
    #14295449 - 04/15/11 12:41 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

:strokebeard: Well I'll give you this one - I felt compelled to devils advocate because I hate to think of genres as being so rigidly defined :smilingpuppy:

But I guess at least there is a good reason for it.


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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: twighead]
    #14296333 - 04/15/11 03:52 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

twighead said:
:strokebeard: Well I'll give you this one - I felt compelled to devils advocate




sure man


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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: riglow]
    #14296499 - 04/15/11 04:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

:stonedjerk::stonedjerk::stonedjerk:


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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: twighead]
    #14296642 - 04/15/11 05:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

twighead said:
:strokebeard: Well I'll give you this one - I felt compelled to devils advocate because I hate to think of genres as being so rigidly defined


But I guesat least there is a good reason for it.




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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #14296829 - 04/15/11 05:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

What about him?


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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: twighead]
    #14297435 - 04/15/11 07:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Skrillex looks like a prepubescent scenester.


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Re: Dubstep Debate [Re: riglow]
    #14297537 - 04/15/11 07:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Probably because he was in from first to last :smilingpuppy:

Now he's teaming up with korn  :scumbagsteve:


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