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Offlinemyco99
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Re: Toddler Rushed to Hospital After Reportedly Being Served Alcohol at Applebee's [Re: user1837483975]
    #14276533 - 04/12/11 04:42 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Canberra said:
Quote:

myco99 said:
They should definitely sue, and go for large punitive damages.  They will settle out of court and come out better for it.  This is Applebees, not some mom and pop shop.  Major corporations don't learn their lesson until large punitive damages are awarded, or threatened in the lawsuit.



That's the question of vicarious liability - why should this company (who realistically had nothing to do with the employee's negligence) be forced to compensate the family? Can an individual really be responsible for the actions of another?




"Someone" won't be forced to pay, the corporation will.  The company did have something to do with the employee's negligence, in that they trained this employee.  I think it is important to remember the principle here.  Although this case was just a little kid drinking some alcohol and catching a buzz, it could have ended in death if the kid had liver issues or something.  Likewise, on the principle of the matter, this could have been someone allergic to peanuts who died after being served food prepared with peanuts.  The point is, restaurants have to be responsible for serving what patrons request.

Finally, any mistake or negligence perpetrated within a company always boils down to X number of employees who are involved.  This does not mean that the company itself is free from lawsuits.  It would never be the case that a company, as an abstract concept, was negligent in some action.  It is always the employees; the physical manifestation of the abstract concept of a company, who perform negligent actions on behalf of the company.


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Offlineuser1837483975
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Registered: 10/18/09
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Re: Toddler Rushed to Hospital After Reportedly Being Served Alcohol at Applebee's [Re: myco99]
    #14276574 - 04/12/11 05:05 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

myco99 said:
Quote:

Canberra said:
Quote:

myco99 said:
They should definitely sue, and go for large punitive damages.  They will settle out of court and come out better for it.  This is Applebees, not some mom and pop shop.  Major corporations don't learn their lesson until large punitive damages are awarded, or threatened in the lawsuit.



That's the question of vicarious liability - why should this company (who realistically had nothing to do with the employee's negligence) be forced to compensate the family? Can an individual really be responsible for the actions of another?




"Someone" won't be forced to pay, the corporation will.  The company did have something to do with the employee's negligence, in that they trained this employee.  I think it is important to remember the principle here.  Although this case was just a little kid drinking some alcohol and catching a buzz, it could have ended in death if the kid had liver issues or something.  Likewise, on the principle of the matter, this could have been someone allergic to peanuts who died after being served food prepared with peanuts.  The point is, restaurants have to be responsible for serving what patrons request.

Finally, any mistake or negligence perpetrated within a company always boils down to X number of employees who are involved.  This does not mean that the company itself is free from lawsuits.  It would never be the case that a company, as an abstract concept, was negligent in some action.  It is always the employees; the physical manifestation of the abstract concept of a company, who perform negligent actions on behalf of the company.



You are assuming that there is some failure on the part of the company to do with training, and that may be the case - but I am saying that sometimes no amount of training or education can prevent people from making mistakes. In those cases, one could argue that a company should not be held liable for the negligence of their employee if there was nothing that they could reasonably have done to prevent the incident from occurring. 

Personally I think the company should compensate the parents, as they failed to ensure the safety of their customers who they owed a duty of care. Even though it may have been completely out of their control they are still responsible.

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Offlinemyco99
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Re: Toddler Rushed to Hospital After Reportedly Being Served Alcohol at Applebee's [Re: user1837483975]
    #14276629 - 04/12/11 05:47 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Canberra said:
Quote:

myco99 said:
Quote:

Canberra said:
Quote:

myco99 said:
They should definitely sue, and go for large punitive damages.  They will settle out of court and come out better for it.  This is Applebees, not some mom and pop shop.  Major corporations don't learn their lesson until large punitive damages are awarded, or threatened in the lawsuit.



That's the question of vicarious liability - why should this company (who realistically had nothing to do with the employee's negligence) be forced to compensate the family? Can an individual really be responsible for the actions of another?




"Someone" won't be forced to pay, the corporation will.  The company did have something to do with the employee's negligence, in that they trained this employee.  I think it is important to remember the principle here.  Although this case was just a little kid drinking some alcohol and catching a buzz, it could have ended in death if the kid had liver issues or something.  Likewise, on the principle of the matter, this could have been someone allergic to peanuts who died after being served food prepared with peanuts.  The point is, restaurants have to be responsible for serving what patrons request.

Finally, any mistake or negligence perpetrated within a company always boils down to X number of employees who are involved.  This does not mean that the company itself is free from lawsuits.  It would never be the case that a company, as an abstract concept, was negligent in some action.  It is always the employees; the physical manifestation of the abstract concept of a company, who perform negligent actions on behalf of the company.



You are assuming that there is some failure on the part of the company to do with training, and that may be the case - but I am saying that sometimes no amount of training or education can prevent people from making mistakes. In those cases, one could argue that a company should not be held liable for the negligence of their employee if there was nothing that they could reasonably have done to prevent the incident from occurring. 

Personally I think the company should compensate the parents, as they failed to ensure the safety of their customers who they owed a duty of care. Even though it may have been completely out of their control they are still responsible.




I understand what you are saying, but for the sake of society, companies must be held responsible for employee's actions.  This is a staple of Western jurisprudence, without which, companies would offer even less training to employees (to save money) because they know any negligent act will be the direct and only fault of the employee, not the company.  Surely you can see how this is an issue.

Also, I think with very reasonable training an employee can be taught to not make this mistake.


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Toddler Rushed to Hospital After Reportedly Being Served Alcohol at Applebee's [Re: myco99]
    #14276652 - 04/12/11 06:01 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

And a trial is the way to determine how much, if any, liability the company actually holds.
Was it a training error? Or an employee prank gone wrong?


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Offlinemyco99
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Re: Toddler Rushed to Hospital After Reportedly Being Served Alcohol at Applebee's [Re: Doc_T]
    #14276874 - 04/12/11 08:10 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
And a trial is the way to determine how much, if any, liability the company actually holds.
Was it a training error? Or an employee prank gone wrong?




Well said, Doc.  I swear I feel older and older arguing with the youthful idealists on Shroomery.  Sigh :shrug:


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OfflineRabid Jelly Bean
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Re: Toddler Rushed to Hospital After Reportedly Being Served Alcohol at Applebee's [Re: myco99]
    #14276885 - 04/12/11 08:24 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Remember that the media likes to leave out important facts in cases like these. They just report headlines with no detail on what has actually happened.

http://www.cracked.com/article_19150_6-famous-frivolous-lawsuit-stories-that-are-total-b.s..html

Of course, in this case it sounds like someone being a complete dumbass. There's no "accidentally" putting a margarita mixture into a sippy cup instead of apple juice.

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OfflineFiberglassDiaper
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Registered: 04/06/11
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Re: Toddler Rushed to Hospital After Reportedly Being Served Alcohol at Applebee's [Re: Rabid Jelly Bean]
    #14276913 - 04/12/11 08:36 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

This applebees jackass needs a few doses in his sippy cup. 15 monthes is way too young.

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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Toddler Rushed to Hospital After Reportedly Being Served Alcohol at Applebee's [Re: Rabid Jelly Bean]
    #14276945 - 04/12/11 08:46 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Rabid Jelly Bean said:
There's no "accidentally" putting a margarita mixture into a sippy cup instead of apple juice.




I can imagine being out of apple juice and substituting lemonade.


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Invisible5-HT2A
Registered: 01/30/10
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Applebee's Changes Policy After Toddler Accidentally Served Alcohol [Re: Doc_T]
    #14281247 - 04/12/11 10:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Update:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/12/applebees-changes-policy-toddler-accidentally-served-alcohol/?test=latestnews

The Applebee’s restaurant chain is changing the way it serves juice after a 15-month-old boy was accidentally served alcohol at a Michigan location.

The restaurants now will use single-serve containers to pour juice for children, the Detroit Free Press reported Tuesday.

Taylor Dill-Reese, the boy’s mother, said she ordered her son a kid’s meal on Friday afternoon and asked for apple juice. She said her son started acting strangely after drinking from his sippy cup. When she tasted the drink, it turns out it was margarita mix, MyFoxDetroit.com reports.

Michigan police say the drink was mislabeled as apple juice. Applebee’s will retrain its employees to emphasize the use of separate containers for alcoholic and nonalcoholic drinks, the Detroit Free Press reports.

The boy was taken to the hospital, where he was examined by doctors. The family later learned the boy’s alcohol level was 0.10 percent – over the legal limit for an adult driver. He has since been released from the hospital.

"Nobody at the table ordered alcoholic drinks," Dill-Reese told MyFoxDetroit.com. "So he definitely shouldn't have received one."

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OfflineShroomerette
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Re: Applebee's Changes Policy After Toddler Accidentally Served Alcohol [Re: 5-HT2A]
    #14286012 - 04/13/11 07:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Shocker: They're suing

From The Detroit News: Parents sue over alcohol served to toddler at Applebee's

In related news:  2 year old served Sangria at Olive Garden


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OfflineRev Drucifer
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Re: Toddler Rushed to Hospital After Reportedly Being Served Alcohol at Applebee's [Re: 5-HT2A]
    #14286596 - 04/13/11 08:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I used to work at Applebee's (and every other chain restaurant you can name, for that matter).

To be honest, I can't remember how we got kids drinks there. At most places, all the juices are kept behind the bar. It's just easier to keep track of things when you're doing inventory/ordering.

Now, most restaurants/bars use these opaque, white plastic pour bottles for every non-carbonated mixer. Really, you can only tell half the shit inside by smelling it. Generally in these bottles, you'll have OJ, pineapple juice, margarita mix, simple syrup, apple juice, grapefruit juice. Lots of liquids around the same color density in white bottles. There's A LOT of room for error if you don't check these....

However, there's NEVER booze in these mixer bottles. In 15 years I've never seen it happen anywhere.

Generally, a server will ring in all the drinks, the bartender gets the ticket, pours the drinks, the server puts the cap on and brings it to the table. There's a few steps here where things can change. If, say, the drink order only required one kid juice from the bar and the bartender weren't that busy, the bartender would cap it themselves.

But, if it's slammed and the bartender is busy making mixed drinks, they might just hand the white bottle they THINK is the apple juice and then the server pours it, doesn't check because they're not used to doing it, caps it and runs off.

But still, that wouldn't explain how the kid got drunk off of it because, like I said, I've *never* seen anyone put alcohol in those white bottles. It just doesn't make sense to do so.

All that said, I used to drink at work A LOT. Putting cocktails in kids cups happens at every restaurant, I don't care who runs it or who works there. However, you'd have to be a fucking idiot to leave it where someone's going to grab it thinking it's something else, or even what it actually is.

Personally, just out of my experience in the biz, I see the parents just tryin' to scam some cash out. They probably heard about it happening before to Applebee's (which also didn't make sense), and figured they could make it work for them. You'd be blown away by how often people try to get things for free, NON-STOP. This economy, it's only gotten worse.

You may have seen a lot of restaurants around you closing in the past couple years. Economy sucks, people can't go out to eat as much, when they do, they want as much as the can get without paying, they bitch, get more, restaurant loses out, closes down.

Sorry...I type too damn much.

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OfflineRev Drucifer
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Re: Toddler Rushed to Hospital After Reportedly Being Served Alcohol at Applebee's [Re: Rev Drucifer]
    #14286667 - 04/13/11 09:03 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Just to add something else-

I was talking about this with my girlfriend and realized another very possible way the kid could have gotten the drink.

There are LOTS of times a bartender might make too much of something and pour it into a glass/cup sitting around. It's not un-believable to think that someone threw a cap on some extra margarita sitting at the service bar and served it.

Or, I mentioned above that I used to put drinks in kids cups all the time. I generally got them from the bartenders, who would hook them up for me knowing it was going to me. Definitely possible the bartender made a drink for a server and someone grabbed the wrong one.

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