Home | Community | Message Board

Original Seeds Store
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Substrate Mix   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   North Spore Boomr Bag   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
OfflineNotMyName
estranged

Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 15
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Concerns about first monotub
    #14274919 - 04/11/11 09:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Hey guys. I'm doing my first monotub, and I have a couple of concerns. I used Doc's wbs tek and Damion5050's coir tek. After letting the casing colonize for ~13 days, I put it into fruiting (April 5th). I have a small fan running in the closet that the tub is in and a lamp pointed at it that I do my best to keep on a 12/12 schedule.
It is now April 11th and I see no signs of pinning. How long is it supposed to take before I see them? Excuse my horribly uneven casing layer, I was in a bit of a rush and didn't consider that it needed to be level.



Also, the myc is turning an interesting yellowish-brown, especially in this one corner. Should I be worried?



Any other observations/suggestions are very welcome.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBuckeye Oysters
From Zero to Hero
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 1,849
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: NotMyName]
    #14274946 - 04/11/11 09:19 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Your mycellium is a bit dry at the corners, your are not misting enough.  You should be misting 3x a day, just enough so that 10 minutes later the mist is mostly evaporated into the tub air.  But you need to first give it a good heavy misting to rehydrate it.

Also fan out the air in the tub 3x+ a day

Should see pins in about 3 days id say.


--------------------
Evolution is Lamarckism in disguise.  Adaptation never creates a new species or trait, but rather the new species/trait always existed within the parent DNA until circumstances allowed it to be activated.  For instance, every wolf has the DNA for poodles, but that DNA would never be revealed without man selectively breeding for it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNotMyName
estranged

Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 15
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: Buckeye Oysters]
    #14274969 - 04/11/11 09:22 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Hmm, I have been misting it as I see that the walls of the tub are dry, but I will definitely try kicking it up to 3x a day. What's the best way to actually mist it without hurting anything? Spray it against the walls?


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBobthehobo9
Remove Before Flight
Male User Gallery


Registered: 01/14/11
Posts: 277
Last seen: 10 months, 14 days
Re: Concerns about first monotub *DELETED* [Re: NotMyName]
    #14275247 - 04/11/11 10:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by Bobthehobo9

Reason for deletion: .



--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNotMyName
estranged

Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 15
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: Bobthehobo9]
    #14275293 - 04/11/11 10:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I have no idea what my humidity is at and I don't really have a way to tell. I'm on a limited budget for now, but a hygrometer is definitely on my list. 10-12 days? Maybe I'm getting a little jumpy and should just give it more time then.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEn passant
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 03/25/11
Posts: 18
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: NotMyName]
    #14275329 - 04/11/11 10:16 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Unless those glints of light in the pics are vermiculite bouncing a flash, it looks properly hydrated to me.  If it glistens, it's fine.

A 13 day casing colonization seems a bit long to me.  From the bottom pic, it looks like the fungal mass is still in its vegetative stage.  What likely happened is that when it reached the top of the casing layer and didn't get fruiting signals, it "thought" it was in a nutrient poor environment and continued seeking nutrients.  Introducing fruiting conditions to such a large mass of fungus that is biochemically primed for nutrient acquisition is going to have a slow, unsatisfying effect.

I recommend scratching those snowy caps down and adding a thin casing layer on top...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNotMyName
estranged

Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 15
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: En passant]
    #14275508 - 04/11/11 10:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The reason I let it colonize so long is that I first thought that the top had to be covered fully in myc. When I realized that this was not the case, I put it into fruiting as soon as I could. What I think you're seeing 'glisten' is a bunch of new little dots of myc that have poked through.

Scratching the top? And if I do another thin layer, should I put it only on the already exposed myc, or over the whole thing?


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMad River
Reverend, Churchof Todd
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 1,114
Loc: The Great Lakes Region, U...
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: NotMyName]
    #14275583 - 04/11/11 10:56 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Good luck. If you ask me, casing, fanning and misting a monotub are just asking for trouble. If you have a properly hydrated sub to begin with, none of that is necessary.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineyessir
Stranger
Male

Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 212
Loc: Pudget Sound
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: Mad River]
    #14275701 - 04/11/11 11:28 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Isn't the monotub suppose to eliminate misting and fanning? Quick question, do you induce pinning before closing it up? I'm thinking yes.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEn passant
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 03/25/11
Posts: 18
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: yessir]
    #14275756 - 04/11/11 11:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Scratching the surface tears that fungal mass up.  Each cell in that mass is communicating "keep growing" to each of its neighbors and creating a sort of vegetative "feedback loop".  If you scratch it down with a fork, that reduces that feedback loop and allows a new one to begin, a reproductive feedback loop.


As to whether or not you should recase the whole thing, that's up to you.  From what I see, you have overlay all over the place, so it would be worth scratching and recasing the whole thing. For future reference, those halos of spreading mycelia around the large masses are an indication that the masses are still in the vegetative stage.  You want to introduce fruiting conditions when what I saw as "glisten" appears.  Given the extent of overlay, I think a complete scratch and recase is in order.

However, if you look closely and see hyphal knots in some areas, those areas are already in the reproductive phase and you have to make a choice.  If you scratch and recase, those areas will likely never fruit; if you don't scratch and recase, they will likely be the only areas that fruit.  Hopefully (and most likely) there's absolutely no reproductive activity, and you can recase the whole thing.

And remember, if you do recase, use a very thin layer and keep it in fruiting conditions.  You won't see pinning on the surface, but it'll be occurring at the level of your current casing.

Live, learn, and grow.


Edited by En passant (04/12/11 12:13 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNotMyName
estranged

Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 15
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: En passant]
    #14279641 - 04/12/11 07:01 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

First of all, thanks for all the great responses so far. I don't have any materials on hand to make a proper casing layer, so can I use a thin layer of verm? Sterilize it first? Should I only case the areas that are exposed or the whole thing? I've been waiting on this thing for what seems like forever and I don't want to screw it up anymore than it is.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: NotMyName]
    #14279866 - 04/12/11 07:41 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Can u take some macros of the beige / brownish spots?


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinek00laid
NEMO
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 6 months, 5 days
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: En passant]
    #14279889 - 04/12/11 07:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

En passant said:
If you scratch it down with a fork, that reduces that feedback loop and allows a new one to begin, a reproductive feedback loop.





the fungal mass being torn and scratched IS NOT a pinning trigger.


--------------------
AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinek00laid
NEMO
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 6 months, 5 days
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: k00laid]
    #14279897 - 04/12/11 07:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

and there is no overlay in ur tub.


--------------------
AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNotMyName
estranged

Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 15
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: k00laid]
    #14280520 - 04/12/11 09:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)


Any other pictures?


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePrimal Call
Earth Mage
I'm a teapot


Registered: 09/05/10
Posts: 2,766
Loc: Here until here
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: NotMyName]
    #14280768 - 04/12/11 09:47 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

NotMyName said:
First of all, thanks for all the great responses so far. I don't have any materials on hand to make a proper casing layer, so can I use a thin layer of verm? Sterilize it first? Should I only case the areas that are exposed or the whole thing? I've been waiting on this thing for what seems like forever and I don't want to screw it up anymore than it is.




don't sterilize a casing

in the OP, you say it had colonized for 13 days and been in fruiting for 6 days, but the pics there aren't even fully colonized yet. were they taken earlier?

the fan on 24/7 in a contained environment (closet) could be drying out your sub. note: substrate pulling away from the sides of the FC pre-pinning, little condensation on your tub walls, and no "misty-dew" on your surface.

regardless, it's been in fruiting for a week now, and sometimes it takes more than 10 days to pin. it's not "normal," but it can happen. personally, this is why I like to let the sub stay in colonization for as long as necessary until they tell me when to move to fruiting conditions ie: knots/pins showing. recently, this was in 13 and 11 days (separate projects) after spawning WBS to HVCCG.

hope this helps and that we troubleshoot this for you!
:mushroom2: vibes your way! :trippinballs:


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


:peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMad River
Reverend, Churchof Todd
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 1,114
Loc: The Great Lakes Region, U...
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: Primal Call]
    #14280839 - 04/12/11 09:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

:whathesaid:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNotMyName
estranged

Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 15
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: Primal Call]
    #14281329 - 04/12/11 11:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I suppose I meant pasteurize then, sorry. Ok, that makes me feel a little better. I actually turned the fan off a couple days ago for that very reason. I've been trying to keep it misted to the point of the walls always having condensation after letting it dry out that first time. I'll give it another couple of days then and see what happens. If nothing else, I've got another set of jars just almost ready to go. Thanks for all the help, I'll keep you guys updated.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePrimal Call
Earth Mage
I'm a teapot


Registered: 09/05/10
Posts: 2,766
Loc: Here until here
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: NotMyName]
    #14281488 - 04/12/11 11:33 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

don't turn it off completely... get a timer, and leave the fan in the closet or put it somewhere far enough away that it can stay on 24/7 and slowly move the airflow of the whole room/area.

balance moisture and FAE = win


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


:peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: Primal Call]
    #14282438 - 04/13/11 06:44 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I think u guys r missing something obvious. Those beige / brown spots don't just look like dry spots, they look like it's contaminated.

Can we get some more macros of those spots? I think that tub is toasted, which makes all this other chatter irrelevent.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinehamloaf
Loaf of Fam.
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma. Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: NotMyName]
    #14282509 - 04/13/11 07:08 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Those beige / brown spots don't just look like dry spots, they look like it's contaminated.



I concur with this.  My eyes see discoloration other then that caused by drying, isolated in an area where a small hole stuffed with poly-fil is.  To me the mycelium looks suspect as well, and I see very little "knotting".  Also, to me, the substrate appears dry.


OP, You can give your substrate a sniff to detect the presence of contamination before said contamination becomes visually detectable (sporulates).  If there are any smells other than sweet mushroom mycelium, the substrate's contaminated.  To check for dehydration, pick up the tub.  If the tub feels considerably light, the substrate's dehydrated and would benefit from a 12-24 hour dunk.


--------------------

   
How I Get Stuff done. - My Reference Guide. - My Grows.


Edited by liquidmyce (04/13/11 07:20 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEn passant
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 03/25/11
Posts: 18
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: hamloaf]
    #14283511 - 04/13/11 11:57 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I look at those beige spots and I see metabolite residue.  The metabolites are secreted along with water, a byproduct of the respiration cycle.  Evaporation removes the water leaving the metabolites as a stain, and oxidation darkens the stain from yellow to brown.  It's might be a sign that the tub is too dry, but I don't see contamination there.

And yes, in a sense, scratching it down IS a pinning trigger, insofar as the FIRST pinning trigger is the state of the substrate.  Your substrate has built up a fungal mass that will resist the message it gets from other pinning triggers.  Scratching will reset the substrate to an earlier state, the state at which you SHOULD have introduced the other pinning triggers.

I'm not sure what definition of "overlay" other people use, but as I use it, a casing with large fungal masses in a vegetative state is overlay.  I'm not particularly sure what else it would be.  The causes you'll see people list are all related to keeping the casing in vegetative conditions too long, which, as you stated, you did...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMasticore
Perpetually Curious
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/16/09
Posts: 1,159
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: En passant]
    #14283544 - 04/13/11 12:05 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Damaging the substrate is not a good pinning trigger.


This, taken from the Shroomery Glossary:

Overlay - A dense mycelial growth that covers the casing surface and shows little or no inclination to form pinheads. Overlay directly results from a dry casing, high levels of carbon Dioxide and/or low humidity.       

NotMyName isn't even using a casing layer, there is not a problem of overlay.


--------------------
Treat my posts like the Bible. I am fallible, subject to human limitation, and usually open to interpretation.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: En passant]
    #14283677 - 04/13/11 12:33 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

En passant said:
I look at those beige spots and I see metabolite residue.  The metabolites are secreted along with water, a byproduct of the respiration cycle.  Evaporation removes the water leaving the metabolites as a stain, and oxidation darkens the stain from yellow to brown.  It's might be a sign that the tub is too dry, but I don't see contamination there.

And yes, in a sense, scratching it down IS a pinning trigger, insofar as the FIRST pinning trigger is the state of the substrate.  Your substrate has built up a fungal mass that will resist the message it gets from other pinning triggers.  Scratching will reset the substrate to an earlier state, the state at which you SHOULD have introduced the other pinning triggers.

I'm not sure what definition of "overlay" other people use, but as I use it, a casing with large fungal masses in a vegetative state is overlay.  I'm not particularly sure what else it would be.  The causes you'll see people list are all related to keeping the casing in vegetative conditions too long, which, as you stated, you did...




This guy doesn't have a clue and is using ancient information.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinehealing
Strangest
Female


Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 6,565
Loc: the universe, the milky w...
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: En passant]
    #14283748 - 04/13/11 12:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

En passant said:
Large fungal masses in a vegetative state is overlay.




Mushrooms are not plants, lol.


--------------------
Open mind, open heart, open book.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMad River
Reverend, Churchof Todd
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 1,114
Loc: The Great Lakes Region, U...
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: healing]
    #14283801 - 04/13/11 12:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I think if someone said vegetative state in regard to mushrooms, I would think, "Oh, it's vegetating... It's making mushrooms!" But he seems to mean it as in when a person is in a vegetative state... like a coma....

I have no idea about any of this, I'm just interested in the words. :cool:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: healing]
    #14283834 - 04/13/11 01:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Here is a pic of the beige contaminate I'm talking about:


Sometimes trich under the surface can cause that, and sometimes its cinnamon mold.

Here is a pic of cinnamon mold sporulating in a grain jar.


Cinnamon mold smells like caramel to me.

Trich eventually announces itself with some kind of green hue.

These aren't metabolites and it's not overlay. What you have there isn't even a casing. Enpassant is regurgitating some crap he read 10 years ago.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinehealing
Strangest
Female


Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 6,565
Loc: the universe, the milky w...
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: Mad River]
    #14283967 - 04/13/11 01:27 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mad River said:
I think if someone said vegetative state in regard to mushrooms, I would think, "Oh, it's vegetating... It's making mushrooms!" But he seems to mean it as in when a person is in a vegetative state... like a coma....

I have no idea about any of this, I'm just interested in the words. :cool:




He means colonizing. Vegetating plants are plants that are growing stems, roots and leaves.


--------------------
Open mind, open heart, open book.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSoulfull
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 10
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: healing]
    #14284074 - 04/13/11 01:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I have two small Tupperware containers of coir verm grounds sub end up looking like that an from what I could tell it's was caused by a fan being on for too long too close and badly drying out my sub Ive been heavily misting the last two days and it seems to be recovering I'll let ya know if I decide to dunk how it ends up


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNotMyName
estranged

Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 15
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: Soulfull]
    #14287237 - 04/13/11 10:39 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well guys, it turns out all those little dots were knots (which makes total sense now). It looks like all the areas that didn't grow through the sub and dry out will fruit. I'm willing to get what I can out of it and chalk it up to a learning experience.

I'll see if I can get some more pictures of these brown spots tomorrow. The tub doesn't have any odd smell, though for a day or two, it stopped smelling like mushrooms and had no discernible odor at all. Granted, I'm known for having the most dead sense of smell you'll ever find, but I know what it's supposed to smell like.



--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMad River
Reverend, Churchof Todd
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 1,114
Loc: The Great Lakes Region, U...
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: anonjon]
    #14287740 - 04/14/11 12:07 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

anonjon said:
Sometimes trich under the surface can cause that, and sometimes its cinnamon mold.





Mmmmmm... Sounds delicious!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleD.C
#cultivation addict
Registered: 12/15/10
Posts: 38
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: anonjon]
    #14288363 - 04/14/11 03:24 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

anonjon said:I think that tub is toasted, which makes all this other chatter irrelevent.




That doesn't necessarily mean the chatter is irrelevant. It's helped me (I just started my first monotub a few days ago) and it may help others. It may also help NotMyName with his next mono.

That said, more pictures would be better. :thumbup:
Try and take them in brighter light. That'll reduce the exposure length, which will help cut blur from shake. Try to get a little closer to some of the "interesting" spots too.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinek00laid
NEMO
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 6 months, 5 days
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: D.C]
    #14289622 - 04/14/11 11:48 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

this thread is fail.

full of overlay talk on a coir/verm substrate?!?!?!

oh and stabbing mycelium with a fork as a pinning trigger.

and vegetating mycelium?


im gonna go throw up now...:ifyoucanawe:


--------------------
AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: k00laid]
    #14289968 - 04/14/11 01:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

My reply is just as fail. It's pinning so I guess the beige spots were just dryness.

mass fail

vegetating is a real thing tho...there's the fruiting phase and the vegetative phase... :ugh:


Edited by anonjon (04/14/11 01:04 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinek00laid
NEMO
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 6 months, 5 days
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: anonjon]
    #14289999 - 04/14/11 01:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

lol but vegetating caused by vegetating and being interrupted by a fork?


--------------------
AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTrippy_Smurf
Sketchy Mother Fucker
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/14/11
Posts: 2,349
Loc: Smurf Villiage Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: k00laid]
    #14290305 - 04/14/11 02:09 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

can someone provide a link to the fork tek?


--------------------
SECURITY:  READ THIS!


Chef:  Kids, what did I tell you about drugs?
Kids:  There's a time and a place for everything, and it's called college.

How to be a good shroomie    How to grow mushrooms    A collection of good links (may be outdated)    How things should look    How to pass a drug test



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleanonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: Trippy_Smurf]
    #14292154 - 04/14/11 07:42 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The fork thing is bullshit. It's like bleeding someone because they have a cold.

Nothing that guy said about the casing applies to you. He's talking about a substrate that is cased with non-nutritive casing layer. You spawned grain to a bulk substrate. There is no such thing as overlay for you. There will never be a situation where you should start ripping up the mycelium.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePrimal Call
Earth Mage
I'm a teapot


Registered: 09/05/10
Posts: 2,766
Loc: Here until here
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: Trippy_Smurf]
    #14292290 - 04/14/11 08:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Trippy_Smurf said:
can someone provide a link to the fork tek?




:ilold:

not necessarily at you trippy, but... "fork tek" :lol:

now I feel the need to find a way to get a fork into my projects and make a tek out of it


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


:peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTrippy_Smurf
Sketchy Mother Fucker
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/14/11
Posts: 2,349
Loc: Smurf Villiage Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: Primal Call]
    #14292586 - 04/14/11 08:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Ryath said:
Quote:

Trippy_Smurf said:
can someone provide a link to the fork tek?




:ilold:

not necessarily at you trippy, but... "fork tek" :lol:

now I feel the need to find a way to get a fork into my projects and make a tek out of it



i've been trying to figure that out too.  i figure i could write it up at the same time i write up my garbage disposal tek.


--------------------
SECURITY:  READ THIS!


Chef:  Kids, what did I tell you about drugs?
Kids:  There's a time and a place for everything, and it's called college.

How to be a good shroomie    How to grow mushrooms    A collection of good links (may be outdated)    How things should look    How to pass a drug test



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMad River
Reverend, Churchof Todd
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 1,114
Loc: The Great Lakes Region, U...
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: Trippy_Smurf]
    #14292608 - 04/14/11 08:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Who gives a fork?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEn passant
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 03/25/11
Posts: 18
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: Mad River]
    #14293909 - 04/15/11 01:56 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Wow.

Remember, biologists have been interested in fungi long before you decided to grow drugs in your closet. 

The life cycle of the higher fungi are divided into three distinct phases, two of which are described as "vegetative" and one of which is described as "reproductive".*  Lower fungi are all vegetative all the time.  And if you get confused between plants and fungi when the term "vegetative" is used, register your complaint with the nearest university's department of plant pathology.

As far as overlay goes, just what do you think a "dense mycelial growth that covers the casing surface and shows little or no inclination to form pinheads" is?  Do you think it's just sitting there, doing the impossible  by taking a total time out from life?  Or is it perhaps living, clearly not in its reproductive phase, and thus in a vegetative phase? 

Overlay is just mycelium continuing its vegetative growth right up through a casing and all over the top of it.  Ask yourself, why does the dense mycelial mat on top of the casing show little inclination to fruit even after proper CO2 and H2O is provided?  It is because each cell in that mass is just full of chemicals directing the cells to allocate all available energy and resources towards vegetative growth.  When the very outer layer of cells starts sending out chemical signals that indicate it is time to sporulate, the cells directly beneath are getting far more chemical signals telling them the time isn't right for sporulation.  You break the mass up--i.e., scratch it--so that cells signaling the start of the reproductive phase are not contradicted by so many cells signaling the continuance of the vegetative stage.

And the person who posted stated they cased.

You know, fungi are fascinating organisms and I highly recommend you learn more about them instead of focusing on what they do for you.  At a minimum, you'll gain a greater understanding of what is happening in your tubs and be able to actually answer questions rather than parrot what you've read at the Shroomery.

*Technically, one of the vegetate states involves mating without reproduction.  The growth of hyphae is vegetative, and when two hypha meet, they mate, but genetic recombination and reproduction are delayed and vegetation continues.  That's what gives rise to the amazing dikaryotic stage that makes fungi so fascinating.


Edited by En passant (04/15/11 02:05 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEn passant
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 03/25/11
Posts: 18
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: En passant]
    #14293943 - 04/15/11 02:07 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Incidentally, or course you can get overlay without a casing...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinek00laid
NEMO
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 6 months, 5 days
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: En passant]
    #14295072 - 04/15/11 11:17 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

so passant.

do you have any pics of this overlay that is apparently so common due to mycelium being to dumb to know when 100% colonization is achieved. so fruiting must be triggered with a fork.

damn how does mycelium remain so smart as to not overlay out in nature.

but once we start growing it in our closets its just like

WTF WHEN AM I SUPPOSED TO FRUIT WHERE THE FORK IS UR FORK GROWER?

STAB ME PLEASER@#$%!@#%@#!%!@#$%@#$


meh im done with this thread ill probly get a warning for it :3


--------------------
AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTrippy_Smurf
Sketchy Mother Fucker
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 02/14/11
Posts: 2,349
Loc: Smurf Villiage Flag
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: k00laid]
    #14295133 - 04/15/11 11:32 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

k00laid said:
damn how does mycelium remain so smart as to not overlay out in nature.





In nature, they eat with their hands, so they're not burdened with silverware.  Eating with a fork is beyond their comprehension, and it confuses the myc so much that it overlays without even realizing it.

Duh, k00laid, don't you know anything?


--------------------
SECURITY:  READ THIS!


Chef:  Kids, what did I tell you about drugs?
Kids:  There's a time and a place for everything, and it's called college.

How to be a good shroomie    How to grow mushrooms    A collection of good links (may be outdated)    How things should look    How to pass a drug test



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEn passant
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 03/25/11
Posts: 18
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: Trippy_Smurf]
    #14295432 - 04/15/11 12:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

First, stop thinking fungi live serve your purposes.  It doesn't matter to a fungus whether or not it sporulates if it's thriving.  Failure to fruit is not mycelium being "too dumb to know when there's 100% colonization"--failure to fruit is because either 1.) the conditions are not right for fruiting and sporulation will fail in the aim of propagation, or 2.) the conditions are great for sustained vegetative growth.  The only thing "100% colonization" has to do with fruiting is providing first, a sufficient nutrient base, and second, warding off competitors.

As for fungi in nature being too dumb to know when "100% colonization" has occurred, unlike you, fungi recognize there is no such thing as 100% colonization in nature--there is no tub-wall limiting the extent of fungal growth.  Fungi have evolved to fruit when appropriate.  So, for instance, when a fungus approaches the extent of the available nutrient base (such as the outside of a log), it does not fully colonize the area precisely because that area is less suitable for vegetative growth.  Its vegetative growth is slowed, and this prevents the build-up of a mass in chemical feedback since environmental factors change and thereby induce reproduction. 

Overlay is a problem in cultivation for two reasons.  First, unlike the fungus, we care about fruit yields.  If we didn't, we'd have dry upper layers of substrates or casings that could never overlay and would produce a handful of mushrooms just like it would in nature, perhaps only at the edges of the fungal body.  However, since we're trying to increase yields beyond what we see in nature, second, we maintain artificial conditions where, if not timed right, we can get what cultivators call "overlay", which is nothing more than more vegetative growth.  It doesn't happen in nature because fungi aren't given free reign over a pile of horse poo and don't give a whit about fruiting in the volumes we're seeking.

Quit thinking like a cultivator for a moment and think like a biologist.  It's much more clear thinking anyway because there's none of this hazy, non-specific talk of "100% colonization", "overlay," etc.  There's just vegetative growth and reproduction.

As for your pictures, I won't bother explaining them.  If you don't get it at this point, you never will.









Edited by En passant (04/15/11 12:43 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMad River
Reverend, Churchof Todd
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 1,114
Loc: The Great Lakes Region, U...
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: En passant]
    #14295524 - 04/15/11 01:00 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Sounds good to me. :thumbup:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNotMyName
estranged

Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 15
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: Mad River]
    #14297263 - 04/15/11 06:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well, it's been a couple of days. I've been misting and fanning profusely and here's where we are.



In all the pictures I've seen, I don't think I've seen a pinset this dense before. What is the white that's on top of all the caps? There's one conspicuous patch of casing that didn't pin, and ideas? I don't really care, just curious. I love that double mushroom.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMad River
Reverend, Churchof Todd
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 1,114
Loc: The Great Lakes Region, U...
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: NotMyName]
    #14297681 - 04/15/11 08:11 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Nice pics. Crazy pins. Reminds me of a coral reef or something.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinehealing
Strangest
Female


Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 6,565
Loc: the universe, the milky w...
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: NotMyName]
    #14297953 - 04/15/11 08:54 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

NotMyName said:
Well, it's been a couple of days. I've been misting and fanning profusely and here's where we are.



In all the pictures I've seen, I don't think I've seen a pinset this dense before. What is the white that's on top of all the caps? There's one conspicuous patch of casing that didn't pin, and ideas? I don't really care, just curious. I love that double mushroom.




Fucking AWESOME pinset. I hope they all reach maturity.

That spot worries me as well, but all you can do at this point is let it go and see if it contams. I mean, you could take the precautionary measure and cover that uncolonized spot with a little pile salt (which kills just about anything, if it's in a high concentration.)

Don't follow my advice without looking into it first. I once saved a tub for one more flush with that method, but I don't think it's recommended.

Those white spots on the pins are the mycelium that used to cover the end of the pin. They go away as the mushrooms grow.


--------------------
Open mind, open heart, open book.



Edited by healing (04/15/11 08:56 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNotMyName
estranged

Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 15
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: healing]
    #14302191 - 04/16/11 05:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)




There are a couple of spots that are starting to worry me now.

There are multiple patches like this around the tub.


And this little bit of green in the spot that originally browned first.


Thoughts?


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePrimal Call
Earth Mage
I'm a teapot


Registered: 09/05/10
Posts: 2,766
Loc: Here until here
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: NotMyName]
    #14302294 - 04/16/11 05:38 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

looks like it is very stressed and your "green" looks more blue to me :shrug: just keep an eye on it and see if it spreads rapidly.

I'm thinking you should harvest once and then put it in the ground, but I'm also very new to recognizing good from bad.

you pinset is fantastic though. I'm excited to see them all grown up!

:popcorn: :peace:


--------------------
New Cultivator's Guide
Time to fruit? Pinning Strategy and Troubleshooting
My Trade Thread (Fungus, Plants, Herbal Medicine)


:peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace::peace:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineyessir
Stranger
Male

Registered: 12/23/10
Posts: 212
Loc: Pudget Sound
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: Primal Call]
    #14302823 - 04/16/11 07:20 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Ryath said:
looks like it is very stressed and your "green" looks more blue to me :shrug: just keep an eye on it and see if it spreads rapidly.





I concur.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMad River
Reverend, Churchof Todd
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 1,114
Loc: The Great Lakes Region, U...
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: yessir]
    #14302891 - 04/16/11 07:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Looks great to me. The green spot looks more like a blue spot. I'd say so far, so good. Let them do their thing.
:smile::thumbup:


Edited by Mad River (04/17/11 09:39 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinek00laid
NEMO
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 6 months, 5 days
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: Mad River]
    #14305159 - 04/17/11 09:00 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

just looks dry to me


--------------------
AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineeyegood38
Mr.
Male
Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 4
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: NotMyName]
    #14310594 - 04/18/11 06:39 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

more water!!!

but great job otherwise!


--------------------
Always remember that someone out there is much worse off than you. They don't have the internet...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNotMyName
estranged

Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 15
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: k00laid]
    #14310596 - 04/18/11 06:40 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Holy shit, you guys! This is the wonderful present that I got to wake up to this morning.



I've put the light back on the left side to try and keep them from running themselves into the ground any more, we'll see what happens. Thoughts? Any rough guesses on what this weighs right now?


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineeyegood38
Mr.
Male
Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 4
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: NotMyName]
    #14310613 - 04/18/11 06:45 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

holy fuck! nice!


--------------------
Always remember that someone out there is much worse off than you. They don't have the internet...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineeyegood38
Mr.
Male
Registered: 07/28/10
Posts: 4
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: NotMyName]
    #14310617 - 04/18/11 06:46 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

my guess about a half pound!


--------------------
Always remember that someone out there is much worse off than you. They don't have the internet...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetripdawg420
low life with no life
Male


Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 7,071
Loc: illinois
Last seen: 1 hour, 9 minutes
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: eyegood38]
    #14310658 - 04/18/11 07:08 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
HUSTLER
How U Survive This Life Everyday Resourcefully
epic GT mono tub
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17277772

wbs tek
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11525679
coir tek
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11917410
results :thumbup:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFear.Loathing
Stranger


Registered: 04/17/11
Posts: 21
Loc: Maine
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: tripdawg420]
    #14311027 - 04/18/11 09:08 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

fuckking love this shit. props dude.

and this was prolly one of the more interesting/insightful threads I've read for awhile haha....

Once again, way to go boss!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinedankakanat
Never a failure, Always a lesson
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 423
Loc: Unknown
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: Fear.Loathing]
    #14311060 - 04/18/11 09:21 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

damn dude that's fat  :headbanger: way to go


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc: Flag
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: dankakanat]
    #14311122 - 04/18/11 09:42 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

The only negative I can see is that it's going to be hard to pick your 1st flush goodies without wrecking the clusters of pins that are set up for the 2nd flush.

Nice job. :thumbup:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMad River
Reverend, Churchof Todd
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 1,114
Loc: The Great Lakes Region, U...
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: Sillicybin]
    #14311225 - 04/18/11 10:12 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Sillicybin said:
The only negative I can see is that it's going to be hard to pick your 1st flush goodies without wrecking the clusters of pins that are set up for the 2nd flush.

Nice job. :thumbup:



Slice them off at the base with a razor rather than twist & pull.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc: Flag
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: Mad River]
    #14311243 - 04/18/11 10:19 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mad River said:
Slice them off at the base with a razor rather than twist & pull.



This can work.  I'll frequently cut the caps off the larger ones with scissors to make some working room, and then go for the stems.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNotMyName
estranged

Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 15
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: Sillicybin]
    #14336955 - 04/23/11 03:06 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Well, guys, it's been a couple of days, but I harvested.
Time of harvest:


The happy couple


I ended up with more two trays, plus what I could fit in the dehydrator I had.


Some of the better clusters


I would love more than anything to be able to tell you what it all weighed, but I fucked up. And when I fuck something up, it's usually pretty badly. I had had a really long frustrating day, and I sort of in a rush. I completely derped the whole drying process, and lost all except what was in the dehydrator to rot.


Live rage and learn.

I still made it out with enough for a great weekend with some buddies. I already have a new tub colonizing and a tray showing some knots.


Thanks for participating in my little grow log. Hopefully you guys wont have to hear from me again.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc: Flag
Re: Concerns about first monotub [Re: NotMyName]
    #14354141 - 04/26/11 09:09 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Live and learn for sure.  Keep rotating trays out, and before you know it, you'll have way more cubes than you know what to do with, so no worries.

:cheers:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Substrate Mix   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   North Spore Boomr Bag   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Grain in monotub or perlite fruiting chamber? wygram 8,453 8 02/03/07 06:11 PM
by wygram
* Grow Log: B+ / Popcorn / Worm Castings+Coir (40/60) / Monotub **UPDATED WITH FIRST HARVEST WEIGHT**
( 1 2 all )
MrSparkles 17,934 30 11/10/07 01:40 PM
by legallyhomeless
* Mushroom Reproduction(courtesy of Wa7sum) GonzoCool 1,091 4 12/01/03 02:31 PM
by Hefex78
* Monotubs monotubs monotubs shwowsh 12,267 15 03/11/18 08:25 PM
by HamHead
* tyvek monotub
( 1 2 3 all )
themycologist 8,505 45 04/04/08 09:21 AM
by themycologist
* Monotub Condensation acacia314 1,245 6 12/02/06 04:48 AM
by acacia314
* monotub not enough humidity?
( 1 2 all )
keystonelight 4,634 25 05/24/07 11:18 AM
by jeetered
* monotub adjustments? coir/coffee -- PICS
( 1 2 all )
themycologist 6,375 24 05/31/07 06:36 AM
by themycologist

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, veggie, mushboy, fahtster, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, Stipe-n Cap, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta, Tormato, Land Trout, A.k.a
4,602 topic views. 23 members, 184 guests and 41 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.059 seconds spending 0.014 seconds on 14 queries.