|
Crashy
Stranger
Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 4
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
|
Re: There is no pleasure of this material world that doesn't come with more suffering [Re: tyler_0_durden]
#14270910 - 04/11/11 07:07 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
desires fulfilled breed more desires.
the real funny thing about being a part of this play of life is that we automatically create our own problems by deluding ourselves into picking one polar end of something. we cannot escape the counter action from the balance of life.
desire pleasure = fear pain
raise expectations = harder fall
select friends = excluded and minimized others
the thing is, there is no such thing as pleasure or pain as two different things. They are one movement like life and death. To assume that they are two separate dual notions is to really be taken on a ride by them.
remember that whatever dual end of a notion you act on, know that you have given life not only to the polar opposite of said notion but to both notions as being two separate things at all. Life seems to always be in balance even when we dont acknowledge it. we give for everything we get... but is there even a problem in that?
|
Humility
Working on it



Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 6,745
Last seen: 7 years, 10 days
|
Re: There is no pleasure of this material world that doesn't come with more suffering [Re: Crashy]
#14270961 - 04/11/11 07:34 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
the thing is, there is no such thing as pleasure or pain as two different things. They are one movement like life and death. To assume that they are two separate dual notions is to really be taken on a ride by them.
This is what I'm getting at.
Pursuing pleasure here is like trying to perpetually enjoy yourself on heroin. It's simply impossible given the cause-effect nature of the situation. Suffering inextricably accompanies pleasure.
Stillness is likely preferable.
--------------------

|
g00ru
lit pants tit licker



Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
|
Re: There is no pleasure of this material world that doesn't come with more suffering [Re: Humility]
#14270976 - 04/11/11 07:39 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Sometimes they seriously are the same thing, like being horny and yearning to have sex, that feels good and bad at the same time.
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
|
SlashOZ
:D



Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 3,557
Loc: Following the water cycle
|
Re: There is no pleasure of this material world that doesn't come with more suffering [Re: Humility]
#14271788 - 04/11/11 11:33 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Humility said:
Quote:
the thing is, there is no such thing as pleasure or pain as two different things. They are one movement like life and death. To assume that they are two separate dual notions is to really be taken on a ride by them.
This is what I'm getting at.
Pursuing pleasure here is like trying to perpetually enjoy yourself on heroin. It's simply impossible given the cause-effect nature of the situation. Suffering inextricably accompanies pleasure.
Stillness is likely preferable.
Stillness is only going to come with death. Pull the trigger man.
-------------------- "Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose "Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS "When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi "Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson. "Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)
|
g00ru
lit pants tit licker



Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
|
Re: There is no pleasure of this material world that doesn't come with more suffering [Re: SlashOZ]
#14271986 - 04/11/11 12:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
the death of the mind...possible while the body lives on
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
|
SlashOZ
:D



Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 3,557
Loc: Following the water cycle
|
Re: There is no pleasure of this material world that doesn't come with more suffering [Re: g00ru]
#14272083 - 04/11/11 12:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
guruu said: the death of the mind...possible while the body lives on
Guruu, is their a point to have a living body that has no living mind?
OP, I gather that the you want to live a life without suffering or happiness which I think makes no sense. I would also argue that suffering is not the opposite of happiness and that you have probably never truly suffered. The best thing in life is that it isn't all the same, that we have our highs and lows. That is why I can't grasp a christian heaven of total happiness. How can you be happy for eternity without suffering mixed in to remind you what happiness really is?
Take for example learning to snowboard. You don't know how awesome it is to take a powder run without all those times falling on your butt when you were learning.
So, as far as I am concerned if you want to live a life without 'suffering' you don't really understand what life is. Now, if you truly want to end your 'suffering' the only real option is to end your ability to experience or sense anything, aka death. My solution and advice to the OP is to get a clue and enjoy life as it is or just end it with a nice metal slug to the dome.
-------------------- "Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose "Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS "When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi "Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson. "Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)
|
Kid_Orgo



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 5,514
Loc: Hale-Bopp
|
Re: There is no pleasure of this material world that doesn't come with more suffering [Re: Humility]
#14273622 - 04/11/11 05:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
SlashOZ said: That is why I can't grasp a christian heaven of total happiness. How can you be happy for eternity without suffering mixed in to remind you what happiness really is?
I'm not saying this is any element of christian doctrine outside of my mind, but I'd imagine that heaven's eternal happiness comes with change in the perception of time and reality. I'd find angels and clouds difficult to accept, but being in the presence of all my dead loved ones for eternity without thought is pretty heavenly to think of. Eternity without thought or boredom, or awareness of the passage of time.
Quote:
Humility said: Pursuing pleasure here is like trying to perpetually enjoy yourself on heroin. It's simply impossible given the cause-effect nature of the situation. ... Stillness is likely preferable.
Counter-example:
I'm never going to get tired of sunsets. I've seen countless sunsets, I will see many more (God willing), they are not getting less pleasurable. There's no suffering in appreciating a sunset, not by your analogy.
You can say "oh, but it's tempered with the knowledge you'll die some day and one of these could be your last sunset." That just makes the sunsets more precious and enjoyable to me.
To find suffering in such beauty, you have to really reach for it.
You sound like you're trying to reach for it in support of some kind of buddhist no-mind zen thing. Go for it, I'll be on the porch.
-------------------- He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.
|
g00ru
lit pants tit licker



Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
|
Re: There is no pleasure of this material world that doesn't come with more suffering [Re: SlashOZ]
#14275361 - 04/11/11 10:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
SlashOZ said:
Quote:
guruu said: the death of the mind...possible while the body lives on
Guruu, is their a point to have a living body that has no living mind?
Oh yes. You don't have to 100% destroy the mind but thoughts can be greatly reduced and it will feel like you are dying to something. And honestly, it's the way to live, so much more calm and blissful, so much easier to realize goals.
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
|
Humility
Working on it



Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 6,745
Last seen: 7 years, 10 days
|
Re: There is no pleasure of this material world that doesn't come with more suffering [Re: g00ru]
#14276969 - 04/12/11 08:55 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Orgo - I probably wasn't as clear as I ought to have been.
There is nothing wrong with basking in pleasure or appreciating things; what becomes troublesome however is desire. Any desire at all. Even the desire to bask in pleasure or appreciate things leads to suffering.
Passively accepting pleasure is fine; actively seeking it leads to heartache. The same comes with ills. Ills are far more easy to accept when you aren't trying to avoid them, which ultimately cannot be done anyway.
--------------------

|
SlashOZ
:D



Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 3,557
Loc: Following the water cycle
|
Re: There is no pleasure of this material world that doesn't come with more suffering [Re: g00ru]
#14277204 - 04/12/11 10:08 AM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
guruu said:
Quote:
SlashOZ said:
Quote:
guruu said: the death of the mind...possible while the body lives on
Guruu, is their a point to have a living body that has no living mind?
Oh yes. You don't have to 100% destroy the mind but thoughts can be greatly reduced and it will feel like you are dying to something. And honestly, it's the way to live, so much more calm and blissful, so much easier to realize goals.
This reminds me somewhat of the stoic position on life, except the reducing your thoughts. The stoics were really focused on trying to maintain an inner calm in a world of craziness. In fact, OP, I suggest you read some Marcus Aurelius Meditations. Good stuff about dealing with suffering and pain in life and how to overcome it.
-------------------- "Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose "Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS "When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi "Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson. "Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)
|
Kid_Orgo



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 5,514
Loc: Hale-Bopp
|
Re: There is no pleasure of this material world that doesn't come with more suffering [Re: Humility]
#14278756 - 04/12/11 03:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Humility said: There is nothing wrong with basking in pleasure or appreciating things; what becomes troublesome however is desire. Any desire at all. Even the desire to bask in pleasure or appreciate things leads to suffering.
Passively accepting pleasure is fine; actively seeking it leads to heartache. The same comes with ills. Ills are far more easy to accept when you aren't trying to avoid them, which ultimately cannot be done anyway.
I'm still not clear, I'm afraid.
Under this clarified view point then, why bother doing anything at all?
Why not sit there and starve to death? Why seek relief from food?
Or maybe you're saying seek food, but don't do it because it's going to feel good, which I don't believe is possible.
I can see "avoid any desires but what is strictly necessary," as a means of simplifying ones life and maybe attaining some kind of self-less existence, but I still can't see how having desires and fulfilling them really leads to suffering in a real way.
-------------------- He was a cowboy in one of the seven days a week fights. No business, no hangout; no friends, nothing; just what you pick up and what you need.
|
|