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InvisibleScudreloaded
psychonaut
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Registered: 03/15/09
Posts: 3,003
Loc: Wonderland
Re: The User? Or the Substance? [Re: Remix]
    #14272354 - 04/11/11 01:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

i want to say its the user..
you bought the ticket....
you got on the bus...
the bus went for a ride....

your the one trying to kill the bus driver, not the bus itself...

but alot of drugs are more prone to generate certin mental spots..
and example is whenever i'm on XTC i'm exetremly open to pretty much anyone i meet, without i'm a sorta quiet person
trippin makes me think odd stuff..
someone told me once PCP isn't that crazy of a drug. its just another trip and you have to be able to handle yourself on it or else things go crazy...
...but i've never done pcp so i dunno to be exact.. i've heard stories of people freaking out on acid but when i did it i managed to control myself..some people just cant..
its mostly the user...just some substance are prone to generate some outcomes more easily


--------------------
We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold. - Hunter S. Thompson

- believe what you may but take the internet with a grain of salt

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InvisibleSamuel L Jackson
Bad Motherfucker
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Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 8,395
Re: The User? Or the Substance? [Re: Almond Flour]
    #14272376 - 04/11/11 01:22 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

personally i think everyone who does dumb shit on drugs has a weak mind.

ive never done dumb shit. and i never will. because i dont lose my common sense when im on drugs, it just doesnt happen. not even when im tripping so hard im experiencing ego death. sure my thought process gets altered a little, but theres always that part of me in the back of my head that is telling me whether or not something is right or wrong. and if im tripping so hard that im experiencing ego death im laying down in my bed or on the floor, im not running around outside.

in my opinion, its entirely the user. if you lack self control while sober, you will lack self control on drugs. just because you took a drug and managed to maintain your loss of self control and did some really dumb shit doesnt mean its the drugs fault.

if it was the drugs fault everyone who does the drug would be doing the same dumb shit whenever they took the drug.


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InvisibleScudreloaded
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Posts: 3,003
Loc: Wonderland
Re: The User? Or the Substance? [Re: Samuel L Jackson]
    #14272536 - 04/11/11 01:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

but cant you agree that some substances are just more "prone" to generate certin reactions in people. im not saying everyone.
an example is how our brain works with opiates and the fact that you can become dependant.
of course it was the user that made the choice to take it that far.
i do agree it's totaly the user. i just wanted to make a few points.


--------------------
We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold. - Hunter S. Thompson

- believe what you may but take the internet with a grain of salt

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InvisibleSamuel L Jackson
Bad Motherfucker
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Registered: 12/10/09
Posts: 8,395
Re: The User? Or the Substance? [Re: Scudreloaded]
    #14272575 - 04/11/11 02:07 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

yea but the thing is this... if the drug was to blame for a certain reaction it would occur in all people who took the drug.

thats just not how it is. the media (and apparently tons of people on this forum) love to focus in on extreme cases of shit and claim "THE DRUG DID THAT! THAT GUY WOULDNT HAVE DONE THAT HAD HE NOT BEEN ON DRUGS!"

...some people have legit mental issues and do dumb things like take drugs which can give them funky thought patterns. and if you dont have the mental strength to realize that whatever youre thinking while on drugs is clearly illogical and wrong then its your fault that you took it a step further and physically acted out and did something.

i shouldnt be unable to do drugs because some idiot did some stupid shit.

it should be similar to how everyone is allowed to drink alcohol when theyre 21, regardless of the fact that plenty of idiots wrap themselves around telephone poles in their car every day while under the influence of alcohol.

not everyone who drinks does that kind of dumb shit. not everyone who does drugs kills their spouse and eats her lungs. its not the drugs fault. its the persons fault entirely.


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OfflineTritium
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Registered: 03/22/11
Posts: 152
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: The User? Or the Substance? [Re: Samuel L Jackson]
    #14273782 - 04/11/11 05:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SamuelLJackson said:
personally i think everyone who does dumb shit on drugs has a weak mind.





i thoroughly agree with this point. without being too egotistical, i can say that there are definitely people with weak minds. not even dumb, just weak. but that doesnt get the drug off the hook. i know plenty of weak people who dont eat the internal organs of their loved ones

my opinion anyway

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InvisibleCounterCulturest
-Positive Mental Attitude-

Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 3,662
Loc: Nesting on modems
Re: The User? Or the Substance? [Re: Tritium]
    #14274561 - 04/11/11 08:04 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I understand when people lose their cool on drugs though. I always figured they were weak or not headstrong enough to trip. Until I hit my breaking point..

I had been trippin for a while. 5 or so years. A lot of mush and a lot of acid. I thought I had tripping under control. Then I ate some crazy mush once. That was the first and only time I had ever lost it and let the drug take control me. Running around in my underwear, lickin the carpet, runnin down the street etc...

Man once you "cross that line" it ain't about weakness anymore, it's about restraints lol.
I completely forgot that I had takin any drug at all and I blacked out and didn't remember much. Ive seen one of my friends lost his shit on mushiez and I always talked shit until it happened to me.

For the record Ive never done anything stupid while tripping. Just that one little doozie where I lost control of my actions. Thank god nothing worse happened.

What freaked me out was that I only ate a single the time I went nutz. It's those damn closed caps. Hella potent booms. I SWEAR- each and every little magic mushroom has a differen't adventure planned for you.

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Offlinemagickpsychonaut
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Re: The User? Or the Substance? [Re: CounterCulturest]
    #14278042 - 04/12/11 01:29 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I agree, it's the user. Mushrooms only take away the veil, and if you've got underlying anger, fear or other issues, then it's best not to take any drugs, or have a competent guide with proper set and setting. As someone else mentioned already, usually, the bad things that happen with shrooms and other psychedelics is due to people not being responsible in how they take this stuff. Also, more often than not, they are mixing it with booze, crack, cocaine, meth and other dangerous drugs.

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InvisibleCyclohexylamine
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Registered: 09/08/10
Posts: 14,327
Re: The User? Or the Substance? [Re: joemolloy]
    #14278575 - 04/12/11 03:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

joemolloy said:
It's combination of their specific reaction to the chemical, their genetic propensity to such behavior, their social and emotional history on earth and luck.

Or as some on the shroomery may propose, maybe they didn't respect the mushroom spirit and the plant sought revenge.  Or maybe their chakra got electrified.  Or perhaps they didn't integrate properly.  Or Saint Terence of Mckenna intervened from hyperspace to fuck with us.




Seriously?

While I agree with what you say, what you are doing is the same as some religious nut. Fuck man chill out.
Respect others opinions if you want to get respect.
You come off as a really bitter guy upset about something in the past.
Like I said, I agree with what you say but not how you say it or how you try to get people riled up.

:facepalm:


--------------------
Yes this is tymo - I just changed my name

Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to awake from that dream? How would you know the difference between that dream world and the real world?


There is NOTHING better than feeling that warm dissociative fuzz creeping up your body from IM K
Something abut that anaesthetic rush... :inlove:

Qualitative Research Chemical Effects and Experiences
The Wonderful World of Methoxetamine
The 3-Meo-PCP Chapters, Part One

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Invisiblejoemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
Re: The User? Or the Substance? [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #14279304 - 04/12/11 05:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I suffer no fools, cut through the bullshit, and say what I feel.  My brutal, sarcastic, and heartfelt honesty offends many.  Fuck it.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

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Invisibleahchela
Tourist
Male


Registered: 03/01/11
Posts: 399
Loc: Pacific North West
Re: The User? Or the Substance? [Re: joemolloy]
    #14279385 - 04/12/11 06:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

100% user, accidental overdose is not the drugs fault - that would be human error.

I can do psychedelics every day for extended periods of time without any problems. The only reasons people have bad experience's on psychedelics are:

a) unavoidable external circumstances ( like getting attacked by rabid swine)

b) overdosing (usually the users fault - IME)

c) stupidity and weakness (which is the case in most bad experiences)


--------------------
Psychedelics will not give you a lobotomy, but tv will.

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Invisible4HO-DMT
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Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 5,073
Loc: County Line Road
Re: The User? Or the Substance? [Re: joemolloy]
    #14280152 - 04/12/11 08:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

joemolloy said:
I suffer no fools, cut through the bullshit, and say what I feel.  My brutal, sarcastic, and heartfelt honesty offends many.  Fuck it.



QFT

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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 13,361
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: The User? Or the Substance? [Re: 4HO-DMT]
    #14280312 - 04/12/11 08:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

its the way we educate people on drugs which is to be blamed. many people take drugs blindly because they never hear any of the truth behind them. they only hear pro/anti-drug propaganda. i believe this makes it easier for people to make irrational decisions by exposing themselves to the wrong setting, wrong dosage, indulging when there's family history of mental illness. let's face it, not everyone on the streets does their erowid research.

when people start to figure out all the government lies about drugs sometimes they start to rebel against all the other cautions which are necessary. honestly, in third grade we all probably thought weed was dangerous shit, figured out that was a lie, and many of us started to question the "danger" of other drugs as well.

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InvisibleIchabodCrane
GDF
Male


Registered: 04/09/11
Posts: 50
Loc: Flag
Re: The User? Or the Substance? [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #14280838 - 04/12/11 09:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

100% the user. Drugs affect everyone differently, some can control themselves and others cannot. I never have issues on drugs, but some people I know simply cannot control themselves under the influence. Also, as others mentioned it is the person's choice to take the drug - that right there is their choice so the consequences of their actions are on them. Yes, some drugs have a higher potential to cause users to act uncontrollably, but ultimately it is the user.

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InvisibleCyclohexylamine
Turn on, Tune in, Drop out
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Registered: 09/08/10
Posts: 14,327
Re: The User? Or the Substance? [Re: 4HO-DMT]
    #14282394 - 04/13/11 06:24 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SamuelLJackson said:
personally i think everyone who does dumb shit on drugs has a weak mind.

ive never done dumb shit. and i never will. because i dont lose my common sense when im on drugs, it just doesnt happen. not even when im tripping so hard im experiencing ego death. sure my thought process gets altered a little, but theres always that part of me in the back of my head that is telling me whether or not something is right or wrong. and if im tripping so hard that im experiencing ego death im laying down in my bed or on the floor, im not running around outside.

in my opinion, its entirely the user. if you lack self control while sober, you will lack self control on drugs. just because you took a drug and managed to maintain your loss of self control and did some really dumb shit doesnt mean its the drugs fault.

if it was the drugs fault everyone who does the drug would be doing the same dumb shit whenever they took the drug.




Couldn't have said it better my self.

And @ Scudreloaded, that is true about PCP.



Quote:

physicist said:
Quote:

joemolloy said:
I suffer no fools, cut through the bullshit, and say what I feel.  My brutal, sarcastic, and heartfelt honesty offends many.  Fuck it.



QFT




I hope your kidding. There is a difference between brutal honestly and just trying to cause issues. He is exactly the same as the person who tries to go converting everyone to their religion, or the atheist who does the opposite.

I believe 100% in rationality. However I don't go about insulting those who believe in other things, trying to get them riled up.
That is not how we humans should be acting towards each other - love, peace and respect.
Not trying to pull peoples chain to see how far they will go before breaking.


--------------------
Yes this is tymo - I just changed my name

Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to awake from that dream? How would you know the difference between that dream world and the real world?


There is NOTHING better than feeling that warm dissociative fuzz creeping up your body from IM K
Something abut that anaesthetic rush... :inlove:

Qualitative Research Chemical Effects and Experiences
The Wonderful World of Methoxetamine
The 3-Meo-PCP Chapters, Part One

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Invisiblejoemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
Re: The User? Or the Substance? [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #14282546 - 04/13/11 07:23 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Maybe we are from different cultures and your upbringing and the people you were raised with were sensitive coddlers who pussyfoot around apologizing for how they feel.  I was born and bred in Brooklyn, New York and I communicate accordingly.   

By the way, I've never called anyone out in a thread or insulted anyone without provocation.  Ever.  If you look, the personal attacks and name calling are all initiated by others towards me, so your preaching of peace, love, and respect are hypocritical bullshit because I am the one who is criticized for my ideas.  All I do is engage in spirited discussion and then when others can't intelligently dispute my ideas they resort to personal attacks.  I am the victim.  Have pity on me, please.  :hehehe:


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

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InvisibleCyclohexylamine
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Registered: 09/08/10
Posts: 14,327
Re: The User? Or the Substance? [Re: joemolloy]
    #14282562 - 04/13/11 07:35 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

joemolloy said:
Maybe we are from different cultures and your upbringing and the people you were raised with were sensitive coddlers who pussyfoot around apologizing for how they feel.  I was born and bred in Brooklyn, New York and I communicate accordingly.   

By the way, I've never called anyone out in a thread or insulted anyone without provocation.  Ever.  If you look, the personal attacks and name calling are all initiated by others towards me, so your preaching of peace, love, and respect are hypocritical bullshit because I am the one who is criticized for my ideas.  All I do is engage in spirited discussion and then when others can't intelligently dispute my ideas they resort to personal attacks.  I am the victim.  Have pity on me, please.  :hehehe:




Quote:


Joe Molloy

Or as some on the shroomery may propose, maybe they didn't respect the mushroom spirit and the plant sought revenge.  Or maybe their chakra got electrified.  Or perhaps they didn't integrate properly.  Or Saint Terence of Mckenna intervened from hyperspace to fuck with us.




That was not initiated by anyone. You did it just to try to get people riled up.
And thats what has me annoyed. Like I said again, I have nothing against your views. In fact I agree with most of them.
But even if I didn't I would still respect them.
Just as I respect the views of those who are insanely religious.

Anyways whatever all I am doing is feeding the troll.
You give those of us who think rationally a bad name.


--------------------
Yes this is tymo - I just changed my name

Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to awake from that dream? How would you know the difference between that dream world and the real world?


There is NOTHING better than feeling that warm dissociative fuzz creeping up your body from IM K
Something abut that anaesthetic rush... :inlove:

Qualitative Research Chemical Effects and Experiences
The Wonderful World of Methoxetamine
The 3-Meo-PCP Chapters, Part One

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Invisiblejoemolloy
DMT is Bullshit


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 6,525
Re: The User? Or the Substance? [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #14282576 - 04/13/11 07:43 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Oh come on.  That was a joke and not directed toward anyone in particular.  People would get insulted at that?  I don't believe it.  They need to get off the drug forums and go to Christian chats if they have such delicate sensibilities.  Nigga, please.  You think this is Sesame Street?  This site is about drugs, getting fucked up, and breaking the law.  Some people need a thicker skin.  How you gonna survive in this world, tymoteusz3?  I'll take you under my wing and toughen you up.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

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InvisibleCyclohexylamine
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Registered: 09/08/10
Posts: 14,327
Re: The User? Or the Substance? [Re: joemolloy]
    #14282598 - 04/13/11 07:56 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

joemolloy said:
Oh come on.  That was a joke and not directed toward anyone in particular.  People would get insulted at that?  I don't believe it.  They need to get off the drug forums and go to Christian chats if they have such delicate sensibilities.  Nigga, please.  You think this is Sesame Street?  This site is about drugs, getting fucked up, and breaking the law.  Some people need a thicker skin.  How you gonna survive in this world, tymoteusz3?  I'll take you under my wing and toughen you up.




I seem to be surviving the world just fine.
However I don't believe you have to be an ass to everyone to survive.
Just because you break the law doesn't mean you have to be a dick to everyone.

But this is kind of pointless. I already said what I wanted to say.
Be rational, think with your own head, but don't be a dick about it.
Love and Respect goes a long way.

Remember all validity of rationalism goes away when you basically do the same as a hard core fundamentalist would do.

:hug:


--------------------
Yes this is tymo - I just changed my name

Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to awake from that dream? How would you know the difference between that dream world and the real world?


There is NOTHING better than feeling that warm dissociative fuzz creeping up your body from IM K
Something abut that anaesthetic rush... :inlove:

Qualitative Research Chemical Effects and Experiences
The Wonderful World of Methoxetamine
The 3-Meo-PCP Chapters, Part One

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InvisibleFerdinando
Male

Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,683
Re: The User? Or the Substance? [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #14282647 - 04/13/11 08:16 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

yo nigga why da haten
be cool


--------------------
with our love with our love we could save the world

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InvisibleFerdinando
Male

Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,683
Re: The User? Or the Substance? [Re: Ferdinando]
    #14282654 - 04/13/11 08:21 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

also don't be high on being right
it's a coincidence
and delusional people can't help it until they can.. so just be cool
you are just making the attachment people have with being right (whether they are right or wrong) stronger by opposing instead of helping and caring


--------------------
with our love with our love we could save the world

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