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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: Simms]
    #14271576 - 04/11/11 10:33 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

1. No judging is required in the JREF Challenge. Randi's stage magic expertise is for detecting trickery not performing it.

2. The money exists. It is in an escrow acount that can be verified by anyone and does not belong to Randi.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: g00ru]
    #14271594 - 04/11/11 10:38 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Nobody's gonna accept this, but the 'Randi's Prize' crap is just in really poor taste and there's no reason at all for any spiritually advanced being to play along with it.

Of course. They have incentive to sell books. But an easy million bucks and they're not interested. Makes no sense.

The money is a lame incentive.

But not lame when it comes to selling books, yeah?

And it could be donated to help people? Something I've heard "spiritually advanced" people state as one of their goals in life?

Not logical. :spock:


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2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: Diploid]
    #14271620 - 04/11/11 10:44 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I will wager that guruu receives and spends evil money.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14271677 - 04/11/11 11:02 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

hell yeah i do :discorex:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: g00ru]
    #14271858 - 04/11/11 11:50 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

So just more hypocrisy?


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: Simms]
    #14271899 - 04/11/11 11:57 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Remember, Randy the Amazing is an illusionist himself.

Many journalists with no bias either way (and even Jonny Carson on his show some years back) have independently confirmed Randi's debunkings.

And, most importantly: Has anyone actualy seen the Randi Million?

It's in a bank (Goldman Sachs in New York) and the JREF has instructed the bank to make the financial statements public. Anyone who wants a copy has but to ask (or download it from the bank's web).

This is all in the JREF FAQ. It's telling that you are attacking something you haven't even bothered to do the most basic research on first (like simply reading the FAQ).


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Offlineg00ru
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Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14271983 - 04/11/11 12:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
So just more hypocrisy?




no, i recognize that money is a corrupting influence and do my best to resist it, while acknowledging that I am a being with desires who is trying to realize those desires, and money is part of that. 

But hey, if there's one thing i've come to realize about spirituality lately is that self contradiction is just part of the game.  Go ahead and laugh and discount everything i say because of that, but it's inherent.  You are trying to make the world a better place by focusing entirely on yourself.  Or trying to remove the ego by focusing on the source of the ego.  It's just too vast for semantic logic and as such, there's always gonna be a way to shoot darts of hypocrisy insults at spiritual people, and think you've won the day.  In reality, that's the least effective technique for convincing a true seeker.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: g00ru]
    #14272099 - 04/11/11 12:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

So I can use money and not feel guilty (I don't) or be all spiritual and stuff and feel guilty while using something necessary.

I may have to adopt your superior world view on this matter. :strokebeard:


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OfflineSimms
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Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: NetDiver]
    #14272743 - 04/11/11 02:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:

guruu said:
Nobody's gonna accept this, but the 'Randi's Prize' crap is just in really poor taste and there's no reason at all for any spiritually advanced being to play along with it.  The money is a lame incentive.



How about all the food you could buy starving people with a million dollars? Or all the schools you could build? Or all the medical research you could fund? You'd think the ability to make a very real impact on some of the world's suffering would be a prime incentive for any "spiritually advanced being." :confused:




Why don't you just chop your legs off and feed them to starving people? Or if you don't support cannibalism, then feed them to cows, oh yeah they will eat it, and feed the cows to starving kids? Meat is full of healthy proteins!


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OfflineShroomerette
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Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: Simms]
    #14272792 - 04/11/11 02:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What are you trying to say? That seems like a rather disgusting and pointless comment to make.


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OfflineSimms
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Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: Shroomerette]
    #14272966 - 04/11/11 03:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

It was a mock of Samurai Drifter, who made a pointless mock argument himself. Worlds problems have nothing to do with this.

World suffering this, world suffering that, children in Africa etc etc, it is really tiring. Somehow it has become the ultimate blame, when someone could not stand the troll, that "Oh why don't you help the world then? Isn't this what you want????" -- which is what SD basically indicated: Well, if that kind of argument made you happy, why not just die? People want to die happily, right? Maybe you will miss the happy moment while waiting for that true moment?

^This is not an insult, just a philosophical thought, an argument, a debate....


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Edited by Simms (04/11/11 03:22 PM)

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InvisibleKid_Orgo
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Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: g00ru]
    #14273713 - 04/11/11 05:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

guruu said:
But hey, if there's one thing i've come to realize about spirituality lately is that self contradiction is just part of the game. 

...

In reality, that's the least effective technique for convincing a true seeker.




If raising questions of logic and internal contradiction are the least effective technique for convincing someone, any attempt at rational discussion is a waste of time.

That is how reason works.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: Raven Gnosis]
    #14273926 - 04/11/11 06:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If anyone can prove to me that this is fake, or what I experienced was fake or can provide me with a resource that shows how it is done, I'm all ears and open to it.

Ever notice that these people ALWAYS use some sort of props and that they set them up themselves, not a neutral observer.

The guy who appears to light newspaper on fire with his chi is shown in the video as the same person who tears the paper and balls it up before holding his hand over it and it bursts into flames. Coincidence? Nope. How else to use slight of hand to add a hypergolic chemical (read: it burns on contact with air) to the newspaper as he balls it up.

The guy in your video wraps some aluminum foil in paper towel and a few minutes later it's up to 200F. He doesn't do it to a thermometer laying in plain view on a table. He doesn't have one of the film makers do it. He does it himself. Coincidence? of course not.

This theme repeats over and over. It's also the reason these folks charge money for "curing" people but never go win the JREF Million Dollar Challenge. That's because the JREF would insist on a protocol that precludes cheating.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineSimms
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Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: Diploid]
    #14274056 - 04/11/11 06:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
If anyone can prove to me that this is fake, or what I experienced was fake or can provide me with a resource that shows how it is done, I'm all ears and open to it.

Ever notice that these people ALWAYS use some sort of props and that they set them up themselves, not a neutral observer.

The guy who appears to light newspaper on fire with his chi is shown in the video as the same person who tears the paper and balls it up before holding his hand over it and it bursts into flames. Coincidence? Nope. How else to use slight of hand to add a hypergolic chemical (read: it burns on contact with air) to the newspaper as he balls it up.

The guy in your video wraps some aluminum foil in paper towel and a few minutes later it's up to 200F. He doesn't do it to a thermometer laying in plain view on a table. He doesn't have one of the film makers do it. He does it himself. Coincidence? of course not.






Not an actual proof that it is fake, just a hypothesis.

I keep my mouth shut now, just post some more interesting videos:



Click to watch all 5 parts and to see subtitles.

More:




I posted this a year ago in some other thread, but I could not find the original video, so you'd have to see it crappier and without sound until me or someone else manages to find it again:





Actually a suitable material for Chi thread. Although Spetsnaz guys call it Ether, which scientific term is Aether, which has been thoroughly studied by Lorenz and Einstein after him. Nikola Tesla supposedly did experiments with aether. Einstein claimed that Aether is kind of immobile "energy", to put it simple, so I really do not know how this applies here. But the description of "immobile" doesn't mean that it can not influence stuff around it, which Einstein agrees with. Then again science can always be wrong, even the term itself keeps changing over time, as it did from middle ages, through 18 century until today. Maybe we are all just blinded like people were in the Middle Ages, we will not know until we are somehow out of it. Einsteins Theory of Relativity proves to be right, but there are actually so many variations of it and all of them prove true in some levels.





Russian mix of fighting styles, called Systema, which uses suggestive combat psychology and body pressure points amongst other things. Russia is a big country and there are many forms of Systema fighting, some of it is applied in Spetznas, which mastery also varies from region to region.






Edited by Simms (04/11/11 07:31 PM)

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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: Simms]
    #14275526 - 04/11/11 10:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Simms said:
It was a mock of Samurai Drifter, who made a pointless mock argument himself. Worlds problems have nothing to do with this.



Wow, how could you fail to grasp the connection? Guruu said that money is not a good incentive for a "spiritual person," I said it was a great incentive because you could buy food, clothing, or education for thousands of people, which should be something every spiritual person would want.

Your argument about cutting off my legs and feeding them to people was, on the other hand, completely irrelevant as well as batshit crazy. If I cut off my legs that would severly disable my ability to do other things that could help people on a more long-term basis, not to mention causing a great amount of suffering to me.

But if someone had paranormal powers, then demonstrating them in a simple test should be a piece of cake and would do a huge amount of good in the world. How, then, is there a lack of incentive for a "truly spiritual" person to do so?

Actually, I would argue that anyone with the power to earn that money would be morally obligated to do so, in order to donate it.

Quote:

World suffering this, world suffering that, children in Africa etc etc, it is really tiring. Somehow it has become the ultimate blame, when someone could not stand the troll, that "Oh why don't you help the world then? Isn't this what you want????" -- which is what SD basically indicated: Well, if that kind of argument made you happy, why not just die? People want to die happily, right? Maybe you will miss the happy moment while waiting for that true moment?

^This is not an insult, just a philosophical thought, an argument, a debate....



That is not a philosophical thought; you are just insulted that I contradicted your blindly held beliefs and are rambling nonsense in a desperate attempt to refute me.

It's very simple, though- the reason nobody has gotten that money is that they cannot meet the requirements of the test. That's it. There's no massive conspiracy, the "spiritual" people aren't holding some kind of moral highground, they simply are unable to pass the test.


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OfflineSimms
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Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: NetDiver]
    #14276547 - 04/12/11 04:49 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:

Simms said:
It was a mock of Samurai Drifter, who made a pointless mock argument himself. Worlds problems have nothing to do with this.



Wow, how could you fail to grasp the connection? Guruu said that money is not a good incentive for a "spiritual person," I said it was a great incentive because you could buy food, clothing, or education for thousands of people, which should be something every spiritual person would want.

Your argument about cutting off my legs and feeding them to people was, on the other hand, completely irrelevant as well as batshit crazy. If I cut off my legs that would severly disable my ability to do other things that could help people on a more long-term basis, not to mention causing a great amount of suffering to me.

But if someone had paranormal powers, then demonstrating them in a simple test should be a piece of cake and would do a huge amount of good in the world. How, then, is there a lack of incentive for a "truly spiritual" person to do so?

Actually, I would argue that anyone with the power to earn that money would be morally obligated to do so, in order to donate it.

Quote:

World suffering this, world suffering that, children in Africa etc etc, it is really tiring. Somehow it has become the ultimate blame, when someone could not stand the troll, that "Oh why don't you help the world then? Isn't this what you want????" -- which is what SD basically indicated: Well, if that kind of argument made you happy, why not just die? People want to die happily, right? Maybe you will miss the happy moment while waiting for that true moment?

^This is not an insult, just a philosophical thought, an argument, a debate....



That is not a philosophical thought; you are just insulted that I contradicted your blindly held beliefs and are rambling nonsense in a desperate attempt to refute me.

It's very simple, though- the reason nobody has gotten that money is that they cannot meet the requirements of the test. That's it. There's no massive conspiracy, the "spiritual" people aren't holding some kind of moral highground, they simply are unable to pass the test.





Ok, now you are putting words in my mouth?
By the way, as it seems, I understood very correctly your connection.

End of this topic.

On topic:

I am waiting for someone to give reasonable explanations about the videos I posted above. And if you are going to say it is fake, I want you to prove it, not just bring up some hypothesis.


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Edited by Simms (04/12/11 04:54 AM)

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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: Simms]
    #14277697 - 04/12/11 12:17 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Simms said:
Ok, now you are putting words in my mouth?



No, I quoted you. You put the words in your own mouth.

Quote:

By the way, as it seems, I understood very correctly your connection.

End of this topic.



"No, I'M RIGHT! And I refuse to discuss it any further and back up my opinion."

:rolleyes: Maybe you should stick to the other forum.

Quote:

On topic:

I am waiting for someone to give reasonable explanations about the videos I posted above. And if you are going to say it is fake, I want you to prove it, not just bring up some hypothesis.



The burden of proof is on the one making the extraordinary claim, or did you miss third grade science?

BTW, you're using the moving goalpost fallacy. There's no way we could absolutely disprove something in a video without finding the original person who made it and having them repeat what they did under controlled circumstances, something which is obviously beyond the ability of anyone posting on this forum.


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Edited by NetDiver (04/12/11 12:26 PM)

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OfflineSimms
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Re: 'Randi's Prize' - new pro paranormal book [Re: NetDiver]
    #14277790 - 04/12/11 12:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:

Simms said:
Ok, now you are putting words in my mouth?



No, I quoted you. You put the words in your own mouth.





"That is not a philosophical thought; you are just insulted that I contradicted your blindly held beliefs and are rambling nonsense in a desperate attempt to refute me" -- I am insulted? You contradicted my blindly held beliefs? What are you talking about here? What are my beliefs, can I know?

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:

By the way, as it seems, I understood very correctly your connection.

End of this topic.



"No, I'M RIGHT! And I refuse to discuss it any further and back up my opinion."

:rolleyes: Maybe you should stick to the other forum.





I don't refuse anything, don't put words in my mouth again, there just isn't anything more to discuss, as it doesn't lead anywhere. You made an acclaim that guruu should get that million and use it for the poor people, but the aspect that "all spiritual people want to make "good"" is appareantly in your own head, since no spiritual person in this thread has made such a claim. It has become a cliche excuse to use Starving People of Africa to actually show someone in a bad light: "Oh why don't you do that and help children in africa" in a sarcastic manner. Really nasty habit for philosophical discussion.

So I made an assumption, just like you did, and mirrored you. Since you brought starving children up, I assume you too care in some level.

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:

On topic:

I am waiting for someone to give reasonable explanations about the videos I posted above. And if you are going to say it is fake, I want you to prove it, not just bring up some hypothesis.



The burden of proof is on the one making the extraordinary claim, or did you miss third grade science?




Here we go again. The proof is presented to you as videos, they do not act as claims any more, but proof. Your words here are pure ignorance.

It seems to me, that it is currently you, who is making the claim that presented proof is wrong, so prove it wrong.

For all the others, scientists, spiritualists, can someone care to explain the processes involved in those videos?

Edited by Simms (04/12/11 12:50 PM)

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